You cannot go lead side pressure early and then slide - braking force

[getitdaily]

Interesting stuff for those of you who have gone down the rabbit hole of ground force.

 

I'm a big proponent of early lead side pressure. Watching these pressure trace videos, you can see that most better player swings have pressure shifting back to the lead side well before the top of the swing. This is paramount to reducing lateral slide in the downswing. However, it doesn't eliminate it completely. 

 

To eliminate it, learn more about breaking force. In the downswing it's when pressure has shifted to the lead side and then you start to push against where momentum is taking you. 

 

In a nutshell, in the downswing, around p5 (left arm parallel) you start to push away from the target. 

 

Get both early shift right and break force timing right, and the swing gets a lot easier. And more powerful.

 

I love the comment in this video from Lynn "force precedes motion".

 

 

Edited December 5, 2023 by getitdaily

[jonsnow]

1 hour ago, getitdaily said:

Interesting stuff for those of you who have gone down the rabbit hole of ground force.

 

I'm a big proponent of early lead side pressure. Watching these pressure trace videos, you can see that most better player swings have pressure shifting back to the lead side well before the top of the swing. This is paramount to reducing lateral slide in the downswing. However, it doesn't eliminate it completely. 

 

To eliminate it, learn more about breaking force. In the downswing it's when pressure has shifted to the lead side and then you start to push against where momentum is taking you. 

 

In a nutshell, in the downswing, around p5 (left arm parallel) you start to push away from the target. 

 

Get both early shift right and break force timing right, and the swing gets a lot easier. And more powerful.

 

I love the comment in this video from Lynn "force precedes motion".

 

 

I get what you are saying in your post & agree. But for me, trying to watch the video with Dr. Scott talking with the long drive guys, I feel like I've stumbled into an upper level mathematics class in a language I don't speak or understand...

Edited December 5, 2023 by jonsnow

[getitdaily]

47 minutes ago, jonsnow said:

I get what you are saying in your post & agree. But for me, trying to watch the video with Dr. Scott talking with the long drive guys, I feel like I've stumbled into an upper level mathematics class in a language I don't speak or understand...

Lol. I get that. I don't think the long drive guys understand it either...but they're not smart enough to ask questions...lol

 

 

[iacas]

I'll watch the video later, but doesn't he mean braking force?

[getitdaily]

5 minutes ago, iacas said:

I'll watch the video later, but doesn't he mean braking force?

Whoops...yeah. I'll correct. 

[iNeedMoreGolf]

As a once a week player chasing distance really hurts my game lol im sure this is true for most people. I find when i just swing naturally and in control without swing thoughts like foot pressure or sway or rotation i play golf best. If i had time id want to focus a little more on footwork though. I just try to focus on what works for my game thats easy to control. If i want more power now i just take extra club instead of swing harder.

[iacas]

1 hour ago, getitdaily said:

Whoops...yeah. I'll correct. 

 

It's in the title of the video. You just copied what Josh wrote. 😄 

[getitdaily]

51 minutes ago, iacas said:

 

It's in the title of the video. You just copied what Josh wrote. 😄 

That was the eating lunch while watching video while answering email brain fart. 

[jonsnow]

4 hours ago, getitdaily said:

That was the eating lunch while watching video while answering email brain fart. 

Multitasking=doing several things poorly at the same time.

[golferdude54]

Lee Trevino in his prime just past P5. Looks like a lot of lead pressure + lateral slide to me. You don’t get that much forward front knee movement unless >90% of your pressure is there.

[Nels55]

Interesting video!  I had missed that one...  LOL I have found that if I get to my lead foot early and then do my old hip slide move things get a bit ugly.  Getting some sort of braking force pressure on the lead foot is a good thing for sure!

[getitdaily]

7 hours ago, golferdude54 said:

Lee Trevino in his prime just past P5. Looks like a lot of lead pressure + lateral slide to me. You don’t get that much forward front knee movement unless >90% of your pressure is there.

Now find one at p6 and let me know what his lead leg looks like. That's not lateral slide, that's lateral shift. From there he brakes that lead side.

[Nels55]

4 hours ago, getitdaily said:

Now find one at p6 and let me know what his lead leg looks like. That's not lateral slide, that's lateral shift. From there he brakes that lead side.

Yes, hip slide becomes a problem when the lead hip joint gets past the lead ankle joint.

[virtuoso]

1 hour ago, Nels55 said:

Yes, hip slide becomes a problem when the lead hip joint gets past the lead ankle joint.

I've yet to see many golfers get their lead hip joint past their lead ankle joint. 

[getitdaily]

3 minutes ago, virtuoso said:

I've yet to see many golfers get their lead hip joint past their lead ankle joint. 

For me, braking force describes what I was able to do to stop the lead knee from maintaining that saggy look into and past impact. Also helps prevent the torso from moving laterally too much. 

 

But it comes with its own potential faults.

[iNeedMoreGolf]

I get some of my best results from some slide. I get some of my worse results from just rotating specifically with driver.

[Nels55]

2 hours ago, virtuoso said:

I've yet to see many golfers get their lead hip joint past their lead ankle joint. 

I've seen one which has been one too many.  It doesn't take much, hip pain is an indicator.

Edited December 6, 2023 by Nels55

[virtuoso]

3 hours ago, getitdaily said:

For me, braking force describes what I was able to do to stop the lead knee from maintaining that saggy look into and past impact. Also helps prevent the torso from moving laterally too much. 

 

But it comes with its own potential faults.

I've seen some saggy knees........lead hip actually past lead ankle...not so much.

[virtuoso]

1 hour ago, Nels55 said:

I've seen one which has been one too many.  It doesn't take much, hip pain is an indicator.

If you could actually do it, you'd have a hard time not falling over.

 

...and it would be an amazing accomplishment with a driver stance.

Edited December 6, 2023 by virtuoso

[virtuoso]

10 hours ago, getitdaily said:

Now find one at p6 and let me know what his lead leg looks like. That's not lateral slide, that's lateral shift. From there he brakes that lead side.

Trevino was definitely a "turner"

[Nels55]

31 minutes ago, virtuoso said:

If you could actually do it, you'd have a hard time not falling over.

 

...and it would be an amazing accomplishment with a driver stance.

[getitdaily]

2 minutes ago, Nels55 said:

His hip joint is never outside his ankle joint...

[Nels55]

Just now, getitdaily said:

His hip joint is never outside his ankle joint...

Okay, I see it differently but maybe I am technically wrong.  The outside of his hip is past his shoe which might be a better description.  I was worse at times anyway.  It's farther then I want my hip to be.  Nicklaus did have a hip replacement which I would prefer to avoid.

[getitdaily]

3 minutes ago, Nels55 said:

Okay, I see it differently but maybe I am technically wrong.  The outside of his hip is past his shoe which might be a better description.  I was worse at times anyway.  It's farther then I want my hip to be.  Nicklaus did have a hip replacement which I would prefer to avoid.

Yeah the outside of the hip will always get over the ankle and more. It's the actual hip joint that is hard to. You'd be do on the outer edge of your foot that momentum would make.you fall over...or at least take a giant step to catch your balance 

[Nels55]

Just now, getitdaily said:

Yeah the outside of the hip will always get over the ankle and more. It's the actual hip joint that is hard to. You'd be do on the outer edge of your foot that momentum would make.you fall over...or at least take a giant step to catch your balance 

It seems fairly easy to me.  I went in front of a mirror and leaned back towards my back foot while sliding my hip forward and no problem getting there.  Maybe I am more flexible in the hip joint then you are?  At any rate I think you can see why that was not good swing mechanics for me?

[Zitlow]

For every action there's an opposite and equal reaction. I think it was Walter Hagen who said that. 

 

[jonsnow]

I think you mean Walter Einstein, but it was actually Isaac Newton. Or was it Walter White from Breaking Bad? Or Werner Heisenberg?

[iacas]

36 minutes ago, jonsnow said:

I think you mean Walter Einstein, but it was actually Isaac Newton. Or was it Walter White from Breaking Bad? Or Werner Heisenberg?

 

You'd think if it was any of them they'd have drawn the arrows in the right places.

[Jayjay_theweim_guy]

2 hours ago, Nels55 said:

I don't think his lead hip joint is outside his lead foot, but the outside of his lead thigh/pelvis does look that way.  I'd think that---no other forces on your body besides gravity---you'd feel awfully tipsy balancing on the inside to middle width of your lead foot.

 

There's more forces to account for though.  My guess is he's putting a lot of force into the ground with his lead foot, using that leading, flexed and target side leaning, to push rearwards, backwards and up.  All of that will counteract what would feel like balancing on one leg otherwise, judging only by that picture.

 

@Nels55has a great point about not wanting to jack up your hip joint though.  If I really get into things, and get aggressive, it might feel natural at the time, but my left hip hurts quite a bit the next day.  

[golferdude54]

Byron Nelson in 1945 when he averaged 68.33 for the year which wouldn’t be broken until 2000 by Tiger.
 

Seems like his left hip is past his left ankle in the downswing to me.