Driver spin ridiculously low

[hlca]

In the past few months I've had a few chances to get on a simulator.  Once in August when I did the PXG Gen 6 driver challenge, and today when I dropped into a PGA Tour Superstore.  Both times, my driver backspin was ridiculously low like 100-500 rpm.  The PXG fitter wasn't sure and just increased my loft.  The PGATSS guy had no ideas and said he'd never seen it before.  Basically the ball just drops out of the sky.

 

My swing speed is about 95 mph.  I hit my irons really well.  Like 9 iron 150 yard carry.

 

Any thoughts as to what might be going on?  Any suggestions on what to try?  Someone suggested trying to hit fades, but a lot of these low spinners were fades with 1300 rpm side spin and almost no backspin.

 

Thanks!

Edited December 11, 2023 by hlca

[Valtiel]

We'd have to see launch monitor/club data to say anything for sure, but 100-500rpm has to either be a misread or the skankiest of mishits. Anywhere even remotely close to the center of the face can't produce those numbers unless you're delofting the club to practically nothing. Video of your swing would be helpful as well. The only time i've seen those kinds of numbers legitimately is when someone is swinging massively inside, like 10*+, and has to shut down the face hard while catching one WAY high out of the toe producing those tomahawk duck hooks that just drill into the ground. 

I'd also look at the ball being used as well. 

[mikpga]

Delofting and High on Face Contact perhaps…

[MonteScheinblum]

Well, with 95 mph of club speed and carrying 9 150, that’s a red flag and unless you put chapstick or vasoline on the club face, you’re not going to get spin that low, .  You need to post a swing.

Edited December 11, 2023 by MonteScheinblum

[JetSpeed79]

44 minutes ago, Valtiel said:

the skankiest of mishits. 

I’m so stealing this 😂

 

[Celeras]

Comments are a little surprising because this happens all of the time. High AoA + High Strike = triple digit spin. Can't say I've ever seen 100, but 500 all the time for sure. Here's a reviewer swing from a Trackman iO (PGA store is Trackman, right?) review producing 683 total spin, and it wasn't even that bad of a shot. Not doing the math but that would be close to being under 500 if split into backspin/sidespin.

 

 

If you want to throw the toe into the equation then you could probably get ~900 total spin to display as 500 backspin with enough hook.

[BdaGolfer]

I've seen this on GC Quads, 700 rpm on a drive that carries 280+, was curious about the cause but didn't have the club data. 

[phizzy30]

18 hours ago, Celeras said:

Comments are a little surprising because this happens all of the time. High AoA + High Strike = triple digit spin. Can't say I've ever seen 100, but 500 all the time for sure. Here's a reviewer swing from a Trackman iO (PGA store is Trackman, right?) review producing 683 total spin, and it wasn't even that bad of a shot. Not doing the math but that would be close to being under 500 if split into backspin/sidespin.

 

 

If you want to throw the toe into the equation then you could probably get ~900 total spin to display as 500 backspin with enough hook.

Something's off about those numbers.  You won't ever see 50+ yards of rollout on the course in perfect conditions unless the landing spot is severely down hill.  I'm talking Kapalua Plantation course down hill.  Also, the ball would literally fall outta the sky at 700 rpm back spin.  

Edited December 11, 2023 by phizzy30

[iacas]

Yeah, I think something is off with some of the measurements. With any sort of clubhead speed, you'd have to hit the ball with very little spin loft to get spin rates in the triple digits.

 

The FlightScope Trajectory Optimizer won't even calculate a shot with 682 RPM of spin.

 

[JayMas]

20 hours ago, Celeras said:

Comments are a little surprising because this happens all of the time. High AoA + High Strike = triple digit spin. Can't say I've ever seen 100, but 500 all the time for sure. Here's a reviewer swing from a Trackman iO (PGA store is Trackman, right?) review producing 683 total spin, and it wasn't even that bad of a shot. Not doing the math but that would be close to being under 500 if split into backspin/sidespin.

 

 

If you want to throw the toe into the equation then you could probably get ~900 total spin to display as 500 backspin with enough hook.

I'm not an expert, but I'm pretty sure this photo would defy the laws of physics. Impossible for a ball to carry that far with so little backspin.

 

Has to be a launch monitor error in both cases.

 

OP what was your carry and total distance?

[iacas]

1 hour ago, JayMas said:

I'm not an expert, but I'm pretty sure this photo would defy the laws of physics. Impossible for a ball to carry that far with so little backspin.

 

Not true at all. I hit a ball with 160 MPH ball speed and about 2400 RPM of spin that launched at 16°… and flew < 170 yards.

 

It had no dimples.

 

🤣

 

[JayMas]

48 minutes ago, iacas said:

 

Not true at all. I hit a ball with 160 MPH ball speed and about 2400 RPM of spin that launched at 16°… and flew < 170 yards.

 

It had no dimples.

 

🤣

 

USGA/R&A rollback? 😏

[iacas]

5 minutes ago, JayMas said:

USGA/R&A rollback? 😏

 

Yeah. Every club goes the same distance!

 

I did manage to hit a driver from a golf pencil to the front of the green on a 180-yard par three. You've gotta launch it at like 25° to get it anywhere.

[Valtiel]

3 minutes ago, iacas said:

 

Yeah. Every club goes the same distance!

 

I did manage to hit a driver from a golf pencil to the front of the green on a 180-yard par three. You've gotta launch it at like 25° to get it anywhere.

Naw, you just gotta get *low*.

[Valtiel]

23 hours ago, Celeras said:

Comments are a little surprising because this happens all of the time. High AoA + High Strike = triple digit spin. Can't say I've ever seen 100, but 500 all the time for sure. Here's a reviewer swing from a Trackman iO (PGA store is Trackman, right?) review producing 683 total spin, and it wasn't even that bad of a shot. Not doing the math but that would be close to being under 500 if split into backspin/sidespin.

 

 

If you want to throw the toe into the equation then you could probably get ~900 total spin to display as 500 backspin with enough hook.

You gotta wonder about the accuracy of those numbers when you watch the rest of the video. Not only is that low one an outlier that didn't have the visual strike to support spin that low, he goes on to hit an open faced low strike high push that only spun 1,800. Either that driver is an 8* model cranked down to 6* or something is screwy there. 

[hlca]

I do tend to hit up a lot with my driver.  I also felt both times that the tee was too low.  I like teeing it up high.  

 

Both times the LM was GC Quad.

 

For my better drives, the total distance is 250-260 and carry is 210.  For the really low spin ones, it was all over the place in terms of distance because it would just drop like a rock.

 

As for the low spinners being the skankies of mishits (love that term), many low spin shots still had 135-140 mph of ball speed.  Not sure where I was hitting on the face.  I was too dazed to even look for that on the screen.

Edited December 12, 2023 by hlca

[st1800e]

AI. 

[Celeras]

22 hours ago, Valtiel said:

You gotta wonder about the accuracy of those numbers when you watch the rest of the video. Not only is that low one an outlier that didn't have the visual strike to support spin that low, he goes on to hit an open faced low strike high push that only spun 1,800. Either that driver is an 8* model cranked down to 6* or something is screwy there. 

 

Perhaps, I know nothing of the iO or the player himself (though he is the respected go-to for simulator videos). He does however defend the data in the comments, and says it happens all the time to him on Foresight as well because he hits up to such a degree. His quote:

 

"I get the same backspin on my GC quad when I hit a high toe shot. I know it seems crazy but it’s when my angle of attack gets way up near 8° with my heat degree driver, and a high on the face toe ball. I could email you a short video or send you a picture of my quad screen."

[mallrat]

I’m so confused…

 

Your driver is 95 mph with a 210 carry but your 9 iron is a 150 carry? 
 

My driver is 102-106 and not sure of my 9 iron but if I really try and go after my 9 I can get 140 but I play it around 135. 8 iron I can get 150 but don’t play that yardage as stock.