Ball Holed or Not?

[Nickb333]

1 hour ago, iacas said:

 

It's not entirely within the circumference of the hole.

 

 

He said "law" dictionary, and his point was not that it would have the definition of the word "embedded," but that it would define otherwise common words in a very specific way.

 

The common definition for the word tort can mean a cake. In law it has a very specific definition that really has disappointingly little to do with baked goods.

Then the ball either isn't touching the flagstick, Or the flagstick is leaning. 

 

I posted a picture of my "law" dictionary. Sorry I referred to it later as a "legal" dictionary. But those terms are probably interchangeable in this instance. 

 

You certainly don't need a law dictionary to get several definitions for many words including embedded. English is a a mess in that arena. Yet, most dictionaries will have similar definitions of common words like embedded. I'd be surprised if any dictionary includes the usga version. (FWIW, I don't believe tort is commonly used to describe a cake. Torte perhaps?)

 

 

Edited December 18, 2023 by Nickb333

[iacas]

42 minutes ago, Nickb333 said:

I posted a picture of my "law" dictionary. Sorry I referred to it later as a "legal" dictionary. But those terms are probably interchangeable in this instance.

 

You've missed the point (again).

 

Edited December 18, 2023 by iacas

[Nickb333]

19 minutes ago, iacas said:

 

You've missed the point (again).

 

I believe I addressed the point in the last paragraph. Dictionaries most often agree on the definitions of common words. The usga changed its definition of embedded. I don’t believe you’ll find their definition elsewhere. 

[GolfTurkey]

I think most rules questions can be answered by remembering that the game was invented by masochistic Scottish shepherds who loved to chew sheep droppings while beating themselves on the head with their crooks in freezing cold rain.

 

Then two simple principles apply:

 

1. The most unpleasant outcome for the player will be the rule.

 

2. Any questioning of #1 on the rules forum will lead to a public flaying.

[iacas]

21 minutes ago, Nickb333 said:

I believe I addressed the point in the last paragraph.

 

Sorry, no.

[sui generis]

36 minutes ago, Nickb333 said:

I believe I addressed the point in the last paragraph. Dictionaries most often agree on the definitions of common words. The usga changed its definition of embedded. I don’t believe you’ll find their definition elsewhere. 

 

The "rules am stupid" crowd doesn't last long here. Try Tour Talk or the General Golf Talk folders, you'll find some friends there, no doubt. 😉

[nsxguy]

6 hours ago, Nickb333 said:

T not sure I noticed the edit. So it’s touching the pin.  I’d be pretty po’d if the rules of golf allow the hole to shrink. 
 

As I wrote, unless the pin is leaning, a ball touching the pin can’t also be touching the side of the cup. Let alone be embedded there. 

 

OK, let's see now.

 

Hole is 4.25" in diameter.

 

Subtract .75" for the diameter of the widest pin. That leaves 3.5".

 

Half of which is 1.75" between the inside edge of the hole and the outer edge of the pin.

 

Diameter of the ball is about 1.68" leaving .07" leeway. 7 hundredths of an inch.

 

I would suggest that the .07" could be accounted for by a lack of precision of the tools cutting the hole.

 

Add to that, the hole is inserted flush to the ground surrounding the hole. So, even the slightest of slopes the hole is on would tilt the flagstick, often almost imperceptible to a player.

 

I'd think that tilt would be enough to hold the ball against the pin.

 

 

BTW, did you look up imbed(ded) in your dictionary ?

[Colin L]

This conversation undoubtedly must be short-listed for the best  How many angels can dance on the point of a pin  discussion  of 2023.