Right Side Bend V arms lowering in transition

[tthomasgolfer605]

I remember when Butch Harmon and Tiger were discussing his swing changes he made after he won The Masters in 1997. He felt like the arms were falling first. Butch said that most average golfers would just stay on their right side and throw their hands at it if they did that. 

[MPStrat]

14 minutes ago, tthomasgolfer605 said:

I remember when Butch Harmon and Tiger were discussing his swing changes he made after he won The Masters in 1997. He felt like the arms were falling first. Butch said that most average golfers would just stay on their right side and throw their hands at it if they did that. 

Yep when people reference the Tiger move to justify what they emphasize in their teaching, they always leave out that the person who taught him that move suggested it was terrible for most amateurs. 

[tthomasgolfer605]

17 minutes ago, MPStrat said:

Yep when people reference the Tiger move to justify what they emphasize in their teaching, they always leave out that the person who taught him that move suggested it was terrible for most amateurs. 

He already had a good pivot though. Most don't. 

[iacas]

20 minutes ago, tthomasgolfer605 said:

Most don't. 

 

I don't think anyone's arguing that this is the top priority for the majority of golfers.

 

 

Just that it's something that some golfers need to do. One of my better college players is working on this now - his hips rotate significantly faster than Rory's, so his sequencing is better when he feels like he fires his arms down faster/sooner (he feels like they go first, but of course they don't in reality), and that gets his trail elbow farther in front of his hips and helps him not get stuck.

 

Edited December 31, 2023 by iacas
Hit cmd-enter instead of enter prematurely.

[MPStrat]

I agree with that. Some golfers need it. The type of golfer described is a prime candidate. Many junior golfers as well.

 

It’s easy to see the hands behind the trail thigh at p6 which is extremely common and say to all of those golfers “speed up your arms” — we see this prescribed over and over again to golfers who post their swings here but this is often nothing more than putting the 2D cart before the horse and for many of those golfers, trying to “speed up the arms” with their current swing isn’t going to work at all.  They are going to want to abandon it quickly and they should because the results will be terrible.

There is a chance the OP is one of those golfers. 

 

I will also say that anecdotally, I know of many low single digit and scratch golfers with their arms behind their trail thigh at p6 and many mid and higher handicaps with the hands on the trail thigh at p6. It’s not the holy grail. It’s not magic. 

 

[Golfbeat]

I believe that most golfers maybe not so much need to speed up the arms but rather first to drop the arms. It is not usually the hips that are too fast but rather the shoulders (over the top). But what do I know.

[Hilts1969]

On 12/30/2023 at 12:53 AM, absoludicrous said:

 

Remember this is a 2d illusion, he is not moving his arms or wrists. He has the bucket of Popcorn between his legs and is pivoting the Popcorn into his mouth.

[MPStrat]

3 minutes ago, Hilts1969 said:

 

Remember this is a 2d illusion, he is not moving his arms or wrists. He has the bucket of Popcorn between his legs and is pivoting the Popcorn into his mouth.

One of the more entertaining takes from the arm emphasis crowd is that those who think speeding up the arms is overrated think the arms don’t do anything to bring the club to the ball 

[Hilts1969]

6 minutes ago, MPStrat said:

One of the more entertaining takes from the arm emphasis crowd is that those who think speeding up the arms is overrated think the arms don’t do anything to bring the club to the ball 

 

Personally I believe everything plays its part. Finding the least amount of thoughts/actions that affect other parts of the body in a good way is what we should be looking for. 

 

It's why I avoid outlandish claims. If you see someone claiming a secret move run and don't look back.

 

For instance the Instagrams you posted are excellent imho but one still needs to get the arm and wrist structure correct. Some may be lucky and one or both may react correctly. 

 

Personally I don't believe an arm only thought or a pivot only thought will do the vast majority of golfers much good. 

[MPStrat]

2 hours ago, Hilts1969 said:

 

Personally I believe everything plays its part. Finding the least amount of thoughts/actions that affect other parts of the body in a good way is what we should be looking for. 

 

It's why I avoid outlandish claims. If you see someone claiming a secret move run and don't look back.

 

For instance the Instagrams you posted are excellent imho but one still needs to get the arm and wrist structure correct. Some may be lucky and one or both may react correctly. 

 

Personally I don't believe an arm only thought or a pivot only thought will do the vast majority of golfers much good. 

Where I will agree is that if a golfer wants the whole package, there is value in seeking many of the common checkpoints of golfers at the highest level. 
 

I also agree that a pivot only or an arm only thought is not necessarily ideal for anyone. Thoughts are thoughts, feels are feels. 
 

To add, I’ve expressed many times the importance of the hand and arm movements which influence path and face. 
 

But IMO, a golfer with a fairly good “pivot” can still hit the ball really well with the arms behind in the sequence. A golfer with “arms perfectly in sync from a 2D face on view” can still be this guy:

 

 

I’m not saying there isn’t value to having the arms in sync, just that its importance to the average golfer is way overstated relative to other things. For those golfers, their time is better spent on what IMO will really help them become a better ball striker and obsessing over speeding up the arms can often produce diminishing returns if they don’t already have a “fine” pivot.

[TrueBlue4Lyfe]

How much of “speeding up the arms” should actually be “slowing down the shoulders”?  If you don’t have hip shoulder separation it’s almost impossible for the arms to move off your chest because your hips are pulling your shoulders/chest too quickly

Edited December 31, 2023 by TrueBlue4Lyfe

[Tfb003]

1 hour ago, TrueBlue4Lyfe said:

How much of “speeding up the arms” should actually be “slowing down the shoulders”?  If you don’t have hip shoulder separation it’s almost impossible for the arms to move off your chest because your hips are pulling your shoulders/chest too quickly

I think it’s a huge part. I have been successful in improving P6 position by basically feeling like my arms drop while shoulders wait literally as long as humanly possible. Been at it for months and I can slowly get more and more in sync and at a better P6 position with the hands. Getting this into better position has gotten me from 117ish 7i ball speed to 125ish. Also as someone who would spin and then cast out behind me, the ability to actually release possible from a better position has reduced my hooks big time. 
 

I think this is a huge part of maintaining lag. As soon as the shoulders spin it will be thrown out by the forces created so need to get arms in position with the lag retained then fire.

[Hilts1969]

2 hours ago, MPStrat said:

Where I will agree is that if a golfer wants the whole package, there is value in seeking many of the common checkpoints of golfers at the highest level. 
 

I also agree that a pivot only or an arm only thought is not necessarily ideal for anyone. Thoughts are thoughts, feels are feels. 
 

To add, I’ve expressed many times the importance of the hand and arm movements which influence path and face. 
 

But IMO, a golfer with a fairly good “pivot” can still hit the ball really well with the arms behind in the sequence. A golfer with “arms perfectly in sync from a 2D face on view” can still be this guy:

 

 

I’m not saying there isn’t value to having the arms in sync, just that its importance to the average golfer is way overstated relative to other things. For those golfers, their time is better spent on what IMO will really help them become a better ball striker and obsessing over speeding up the arms can often produce diminishing returns if they don’t already have a “fine” pivot.

 

https://www.instagram.com/reel/C1iAnR_uSrL/?igsh=MzRlODBiNWFlZA==

[MPStrat]

3 hours ago, Hilts1969 said:

 

https://www.instagram.com/reel/C1iAnR_uSrL/?igsh=MzRlODBiNWFlZA==

What does this have to do with what I wrote?

[Zitlow]

The arms are attached to the shoulders so why not use right side bend to smoothly lower the right shoulder and raise the left shoulder to bring the arms and hands down?

 

 

Slack kills the flow of energy.

 

 

 

 

 

[iacas]

@Zitlow, you sure seem to love your “pull the right elbow way around you while under-turning” swings, eh?

 

Fred maybe wouldn’t have had to RSB so much and maybe (strong emphasis on maybe) wouldn’t have had as many back problems as he did if he would have done something differently with the arms/elbows in the backswing.

 

When your right elbow is stuck, doing what Couples does there is one way to get the clubhead down to the ball.

[Hidraw]

The machanical principle of the passive lead arm is that "when a force is applied to an object with the direction offset from the center of mass of the object, the object will rotate".  In everday life examples - shopping cart, trailers, .... 
 

[GolfTurkey]

Sounds like I can load my groceries into my left arm if I keep it still.

[Hidraw]

24 minutes ago, GolfTurkey said:

Sounds like I can load my groceries into my left arm if I keep it still.

Yes, you should keep the Mrs at home satisfied, including grocery shopping, before going out golfing.

The object here, using TGM term, is the Left-Arm Flying Wedge.