Simplification of Relief

[karstens_ghost]

36 minutes ago, davep043 said:

You simply can't write the rules so that the least intelligent players can understand them.

 

Given that they are their own referee, and there's no harm or considerable advantage/disadvantage to the changes, I see a benefit to trying.

 

The least intelligent players have the same colour money as you. 

 

[iacas]

1 hour ago, karstens_ghost said:

https://www.amazon.com/Rules-Reference-2023-2026-Practical-Course/dp/3906852393?pd_rd_w=vFqFx&content-id=amzn1.sym.928be83d-9abb-4025-bc6e-e0aed5aed3c9&pf_rd_p=928be83d-9abb-4025-bc6e-e0aed5aed3c9&pf_rd_r=PW5Z796H7P99QX0AVHNC&pd_rd_wg=cv31g&pd_rd_r=44c5394a-cdda-4a31-b3df-f58ded85f111&pd_rd_i=3906852393&psc=1&ref_=pd_basp_d_rpt_ba_s_13_i

 

The reason this is a best-seller is most players need to refer to get it right once there's anything slightly amiss. This guy has sold 2,500,000 copies of his simplification. That should be a catalyst.

 

I don't know where you got the 2.5 million copies, but I highly doubt he's sold even 1/10th that, and I'd bet a few nice meals he hasn't sold 1/100th of that.

 

Amazon says it's the 36th most popular GOLF book.

 

1 hour ago, karstens_ghost said:

I think it's appropriate to drop for no penalty because in those situations, you are told that you may/must not play from an area, but it's 'not your fault' if you will.

 

If my left toe is on a cart path, I can can/will play from that area. A free drop doesn't often mean you "may/must not play from an area."

 

1 hour ago, karstens_ghost said:

I agree with this. The point of making a penalty a place is that you are removing a ball from an area you can't/won't play from. Thus, you're not "recreating a landing" after a penalty; you're proceeding from a location designated by relief. I think it's appropriate to drop for no penalty because in those situations, you are told that you may/must not play from an area, but it's 'not your fault' if you will. Thus, it's more like "just pretend you landed nearby". That maintains the randomness element.

 

The idea isn't strictly that you're "recreating a landing" and I'm not sure why you put that in quotes, when @rogolf didn't say that. He said only "The drop procedure is to maintain an element of randomness in the resulting lie of the ball. Placing creates a perfect lie every time, not part of an outdoor game."

 

(Mis)-quoting stuff like that is intellectually dishonest. Please don't do that.

 

1 hour ago, karstens_ghost said:

But as an example, if you scoop your ball out of a lake, you're not recreating a shot. You're provided with a choice of zones to proceed from. Penalty? Place. And go. (IMO)

 

The only person who said anything about "re-creating a shot" is you.

 

1 hour ago, karstens_ghost said:

More would follow the rules, and the game would be better for it.

 

I don't think they would. You can't write rules for people who don't want to follow the Rules.

 

40 minutes ago, davep043 said:

You simply can't write the rules so that the least intelligent players can understand them.

 

Yep.

 

6 minutes ago, karstens_ghost said:

it's the memorisation of rules that escapes well-intentioned people

 

Take ten seconds and look 'em up on your phone. It's not that hard.

 

6 minutes ago, karstens_ghost said:

The actual rules aren't carried by many

 

People don't carry smart phones?

 

6 minutes ago, karstens_ghost said:

It's just too time consuming to be fair.

 

So… how is that different if you change the rules? They're still gonna have to look them up.

 

2 minutes ago, karstens_ghost said:

Given that they are their own referee, and there's no harm or considerable advantage/disadvantage to the changes, I see a benefit to trying.

 

I don't. They're not gonna follow your "new" rules, either.

[GoGoErky]

10 minutes ago, karstens_ghost said:

I bet he had read the rules. Probably been months or years, but I'm sure he had. The point is that when you're on the course, it's the memorisation of rules that escapes well-intentioned people. The actual rules aren't carried by many, and it's very unusual for me to see anyone pull up the actual rules when in doubt. It's just too time consuming to be fair.

Or the person can just pull out their phone and look at the USGA app and look up the rule. Making excuses for lazy people doesn’t justify rule changes. And again if it’s been months or years since that person has read rhen

they aren’t going to read the updates or even know there’s been updates.

 

The person has to take responsibility to read the rules. If they cared they would read the ones for situations that come up regularly in their play so they know what to do.

14 minutes ago, karstens_ghost said:

If it's a "penalty zone", someone puts a ball down and continues. Drop, place, no matter. If you're within the zone, you're good. Just no tees. Penalty? Place. And go.

Just like there’s no requirement to place clubs there isn’t one to place tees.

 

so again you want to replace what you want to change one difference for another. With the goal to help people who don’t read the rules now better understand the new rules they won’t read.

 

IMO this is more of an effort for you to be able to appease your play and possibly score better

[karstens_ghost]

13 minutes ago, GoGoErky said:

IMO this is more of an effort for you to be able to appease your play and possibly score better

 

This makes you a jerk. Whatever makes you feel better. I would love to block you so you don't see anything I write, but I can't do that.

[karstens_ghost]

Had a think. Came to a conclusion about 3 things.

 

1. If I'm sticking to my original premise of simplification, drops should be eliminated from the rules. The ball should be placed, not dropped, to eliminate the possibility of a wrong choice. Given that you can lift and replace to identify now, and the ruling bodies seem to be headed that way, why stop it.

 

2. It should always be 2CL.

 

3. There are toxic people that frequent this Rules sub, and this will be my last post in it. To those specific individuals, you are an embodiment of the elitist problem within golf and its governance. I look forward to when you lose control and these things start happening to your dismay.