Overswing troubles

[Rsqu]

I’ve struggled with over-swinging in the past few months. I didn’t struggle with it before July-ish but now I feel like it’s the biggest hindrance to my swing. I’m pretty sure I watched a Mr. Short game video (not throwing any shade at him, he’s got great tips) and I took one of his tips the wrong way. It was “don’t hinge your wrists” instead feel your arms push away and let them naturally hinge (while turning). Now my wrists hinge way too late and cause an overswing. My other post includes my swing videos and aside from a little knee and a more upright takeaway my swing is pretty much the same. I got some really great feedback in that post and I still am very appreciative of that but I’d like to know if anyone had more drills (other than Nick Faldo wrist set drill, I still Overswung with that somehow) that can be used to tackle Overswing/late wrist hinge. I’ll add a picture in this post, it probably won’t help that much. Sorry for the bad angle too. 

[Valtiel]

I would very curious to see you actually performing the Faldo wrist set drill because how you’re still over swinging when doing it might inform what you need to look at next. Other drills to check out would be the split grip drill, but remember that these are drills designed to help inform what you need to do but won’t do it for you. To put it bluntly, you stop over swinging by stop over swinging. You can actively choose to simply make shorter swings, it’s very simple, you just need get past the first hurdle which is to consciously do something different. Make what you feel like is a half swing and video it, what does it look like? Still over swinging? Make a 1/4 swing then and repeat etc etc. 

[Rsqu]

8 minutes ago, Valtiel said:

I would very curious to see you actually performing the Faldo wrist set drill because how you’re still over swinging when doing it might inform what you need to look at next. Other drills to check out would be the split grip drill, but remember that these are drills designed to help inform what you need to do but won’t do it for you. To put it bluntly, you stop over swinging by stop over swinging. You can actively choose to simply make shorter swings, it’s very simple, you just need get past the first hurdle which is to consciously do something different. Make what you feel like is a half swing and video it, what does it look like? Still over swinging? Make a 1/4 swing then and repeat etc etc. 

Happy to see your name again. I have changed a few other things since I spoke to you so I’ll give the Faldo wrist set drill another shot. I kinda gave up on it then because I shanked the ball when I tried it and I blamed it on my lower body so I started working on that and gave up my upper body until it was too noticeable. Again thank you for all of your feedback. We’re gonna make it 🙂

[PedronNiall]

If you haven't changed your setup, i.e. doing anything that's allowing for extra hip turn, going to agree with Valtiel that you just have to learn more control. If you look at videos of Tiger he has a very fast, high tempo swing but he still stops/is able to stop his hands well short of getting the club parallel most of the time with his irons. Same for Scheffler, same for Rory, same for most of the better iron players on tour.

 

If you want a very easy drill to feel that you can setup with your lead side pointing towards the wall and your lead foot against it. Take the club back slowly towards max extension--slowly is key so you don't put a hole in the wall or scratch up the head if you're working against brick--and the club should stop against the wall before you get to parallel. If you're lucky enough to be somewhere that has gym mats or whatever up on the wall you can be a bit more dynamic to get yourself feeling the stopping point.

 

Going to second getting yourself on video will help you make a connection between feel & real when doing it at speed.

 

All that said, keeping in mind that the angle isn't the best to know for certain, it does seem like your right foot is set back decently and that will encourage a bigger turn than being set square or closer to it.

[Rsqu]

36 minutes ago, PedronNiall said:

If you haven't changed your setup, i.e. doing anything that's allowing for extra hip turn, going to agree with Valtiel that you just have to learn more control. If you look at videos of Tiger he has a very fast, high tempo swing but he still stops/is able to stop his hands well short of getting the club parallel most of the time with his irons. Same for Scheffler, same for Rory, same for most of the better iron players on tour.

 

If you want a very easy drill to feel that you can setup with your lead side pointing towards the wall and your lead foot against it. Take the club back slowly towards max extension--slowly is key so you don't put a hole in the wall or scratch up the head if you're working against brick--and the club should stop against the wall before you get to parallel. If you're lucky enough to be somewhere that has gym mats or whatever up on the wall you can be a bit more dynamic to get yourself feeling the stopping point.

 

Going to second getting yourself on video will help you make a connection between feel & real when doing it at speed.

 

All that said, keeping in mind that the angle isn't the best to know for certain, it does seem like your right foot is set back decently and that will encourage a bigger turn than being set square or closer to it.

I will get a video tomorrow. And I haven’t really focused on alignment too much because I don’t really know what’s straight on the simulator, I just hit a few shots and roll with it. I could be a little closed but I don’t want to address until I have some grass in front of me. Chances are my alignment is still off but the angle of the camera could be exaggerating my alignment too. 

[PedronNiall]

3 hours ago, Rsqu said:

I will get a video tomorrow. And I haven’t really focused on alignment too much because I don’t really know what’s straight on the simulator, I just hit a few shots and roll with it. I could be a little closed but I don’t want to address until I have some grass in front of me. Chances are my alignment is still off but the angle of the camera could be exaggerating my alignment too. 

Are you feet being aligned along a stick differently on grass than on a mat? Some people do favor a slightly open or closed stance but it's intentional. If you are closed and getting more hip turn than you need to stop where you want then putting down a stick to square yourself is the easiest fix you can make. No swing technique changes, no trying to stop your turn sooner, etc. I'll try the two second fix any day over having to hunt down less obvious problems.

[Nickb333]

Hey Rsqu,

 

I’m not a pga coach, so take this for what it’s worth…

 

i am a decades long over swinger. It started when I bought a long drive prototype driver. Messed me up! 
 

Anyway, stop watching YouTube. Work with one instructor. And most importantly, just swing the club. Forget about feet, elbows, shoulders, and blah blah blah. Swing the club. Relax and allow your body to let that happen. 

[JamesFoote]

I’ve also had troubles with this. If I try to shallow the shaft, I’d hinge massively and over swing. But I had a huge breakthrough today, and that was by adding more ulnar deviation into my swing, beginning around P3 (or what feels like that to me).

 

I’m not a pga coach though, and don’t want to screw you up at all. But it might be something you could tinker with if you’re going it alone.

[Rsqu]

1 hour ago, JamesFoote said:

I’ve also had troubles with this. If I try to shallow the shaft, I’d hinge massively and over swing. But I had a huge breakthrough today, and that was by adding more ulnar deviation into my swing, beginning around P3 (or what feels like that to me).

 

I’m not a pga coach though, and don’t want to screw you up at all. But it might be something you could tinker with if you’re going it alone.

Wouldnt that force a later wrist hinge? 

[Rsqu]

Heres a video. I could get a better angle but this is what I got for now. What I think I may be doing is either I’m still bringing my arms too far inside and need them to be steeper in the backswing or I’m cupping my wrists but that’s just an effect of whatever I’m doing. It might look like the club is inside of my hands but that’s just the angle of the camera. My backswing is still very arm dominant too, if anyone has connection drills that’d be great. Thanks. 

Edited January 24 by Rsqu

[MonteScheinblum]

You actually unhinged it a bit as you took it back.  Common.
 

From a feel perspective, you need to feel the entire backswing is hinge only and end your backswing at left arm parallel.  You need to feel like you don’t turn at all. Many golfers interpret more turn as more armswing and you are one of those.

 

 

[GoGoErky]

4 minutes ago, MonteScheinblum said:

You actually unhinged it a bit as you took it back.  Common.
 

From a feel perspective, you need to feel the entire backswing is hinge only and end your backswing at left arm parallel.  You need to feel like you don’t turn at all. Many golfers interpret more turn as more armswing and you are one of those.

 

 

Is some of his issue due to restricted hip turn as well and that and the unhinging causing arm overrun?

 

trying to learn and this is something that appeared to be happening imo

[MonteScheinblum]

2 minutes ago, GoGoErky said:

Is some of his issue due to restricted hip turn as well and that and the unhinging causing arm overrun?

 

trying to learn and this is something that appeared to be happening imo

It’s very likely he’s restricting the hip tun to limit the backswing instead of limiting the arm swing.  That’s why he needs to learn to make a left arm parallel backswing.   Then allow the hips to free up.  If he freed the hips up now, the backswing would get so out of control, he’d never get back to the ball.

 

This is why getting the club head moving early is so important to so many golfers.  

 

 

[GoGoErky]

3 minutes ago, MonteScheinblum said:

It’s very likely he’s restricting the hip tun to limit the backswing instead of limiting the arm swing.  That’s why he needs to learn to make a left arm parallel backswing.   Then allow the hips to free up.  If he freed the hips up now, the backswing would get so out of control, he’d never get back to the ball.

 

This is why getting the club head moving early is so important to so many golfers.  

 

 

Appreciate the explanation and what cases what and what can fix it. 

[Zitlow]

You're talented so don't shoot yourself in the foot by starting the swing incorrectly. 

 

You don't want the backswing to be segmented as you start the club back. You want to feel blended and smooth not jerky and off balance. You and the club should feel synchronized as you glide to the top.

 

 

The down swing should be from the ground up not from the top down. Maybe if you get the backswing right you wouldn't be so out of sync and steep coming down. 

 

  

 

Edited January 24 by Zitlow

[JamesFoote]

22 hours ago, Rsqu said:

Wouldnt that force a later wrist hinge? 

Not with me personally. It just stopped me from over hinging, I was still somewhere around 90*, maybe a little less. You still need to make sure your arms aren’t travelling too far as well though. As everyone knows though, what feels like something to one person, is completely different to another.
 

The smarter brains have replied to you though, so ignore me and listen to what they say. They know much more.

 

Good luck!

[phillyspecial]

Monte method spot on.  I have lived with this for many many years and finally made some material progress over the past year.  

 

The way I did it was incorporating these type of feels combined with doing countless video reps in all of my practice sessions.  I suspended any attempt at more speed to finally get my mechanics to a better place, with a large part of the focus on shortening my backswing.  

 

I used my launch monitor and its connected video playback, but you can also use stuff like the LVPro or MirrorVision.  Every.  single.  rep.  In every single dedicated practice.  I could only do it at 80% speed or so (both feel and measured speed).  It didn't go far.  But by experimenting with feels and immediately seeing the effect on the backswing length (among other mechanics stuff I was working on) I was finally able to make progress. 

 

I am now adding more speed back in cautiously but keeping a close eye on it.  I will add tho that I have also taken countless hours of instruction, so I have clear direction and knowledge of where I want my swing to realistically get to.  The overswing and how my body interpreted power has always impeded that.  You need to start there.  

Edited January 30 by phillyspecial

[Cameaux]

On 1/25/2024 at 5:28 AM, JamesFoote said:

Not with me personally. It just stopped me from over hinging, I was still somewhere around 90*, maybe a little less. You still need to make sure your arms aren’t travelling too far as well though. As everyone knows though, what feels like something to one person, is completely different to another.
 

The smarter brains have replied to you though, so ignore me and listen to what they say. They know much more.

 

Good luck!

 

I recently had my pro give me comment to feel more ulnar in trail wrist at left arm parallel going back in order to reduce my overswing.  Haven't been able to get back to him in person, but I noticed an immediate positive change in subsequent swing videos from that thought.  Also has helped to reduce my tendency to retract trail shoulder at top of the backswing.

 

[Tfb003]

48 minutes ago, Cameaux said:

 

I recently had my pro give me comment to feel more ulnar in trail wrist at left arm parallel going back in order to reduce my overswing.  Haven't been able to get back to him in person, but I noticed an immediate positive change in subsequent swing videos from that thought.  Also has helped to reduce my tendency to retract trail shoulder at top of the backswing.

 

How do you feel more ulnar in trail wrist but not less wrist? Are you feeling radial in lead ulnar in trail or just nothing in lead?

[Cameaux]

Nnow that you mention it putting the trail wrist in ulnar deviation would do the same to the lead wrist.  I guess I just don't think to much about the lead wrist when it comes to the feel he's trying to give me.