Investigating steep Angle of Attack Pitch Shots (while taking a deep look at the D-Plane & Spin Loft)

[GolfTurkey]

15 minutes ago, cav5 said:

It’s his brilliant motion. You gain the ability to go out-to-in (really it’s just bent in) without adding steepness. Need your hands and fingers tho working and not a slave to late acceleration/dumped pivot and arms.

 

Most people and instructors aren’t separating the clubhead from the whole club. The clubhead is the only thing going in or out. IF done correctly. If you bottle that concept it all gets easier.

 

He can also use the leading edge with energy from behind instead of the edge pulling thru. Can’t measure this stuff on TM. 

 

I like to hit the Mayo shot like the first one here from good or bad lies. Just spins more and comes lower from fairway

 

https://www.instagram.com/p/C1KLyb9rO_Y/?igsh=MTEzYnVlajBobmpxeA==

 

I asked ChatGPT to try to make that more intelligible and this was the output:

 

The paragraph describes advanced golf techniques focusing on swing mechanics and the effective use of golf clubs:

"The key is in his exceptional swing technique, which allows for an inside-out path (though it actually bends inward) without making the swing steeper. This requires active engagement of the hands and fingers, ensuring they contribute effectively rather than being hindered by delayed acceleration or a flawed pivot and arm movement.

Many players and coaches do not differentiate between the clubhead and the rest of the club. Properly executed, only the clubhead moves inward or outward. Grasping this concept simplifies the process.

Additionally, he can generate power using the front edge of the club, leveraging force from behind rather than dragging the edge through. Traditional tracking methods like TrackMan cannot quantify these techniques.

I prefer executing the 'Mayo shot,' similar to the first example, regardless of the lie. This method produces shots that spin more and have a lower trajectory when hit from the fairway."

This translation aims to make the original paragraph's discussion on golf swing techniques and preferences more understandable by clarifying the technical aspects and the benefits of certain swing methods.

[cav5]

2 minutes ago, GolfTurkey said:

 

I asked ChatGPT to try to make that more intelligible and this was the output:

 

The paragraph describes advanced golf techniques focusing on swing mechanics and the effective use of golf clubs:

"The key is in his exceptional swing technique, which allows for an inside-out path (though it actually bends inward) without making the swing steeper. This requires active engagement of the hands and fingers, ensuring they contribute effectively rather than being hindered by delayed acceleration or a flawed pivot and arm movement.

Many players and coaches do not differentiate between the clubhead and the rest of the club. Properly executed, only the clubhead moves inward or outward. Grasping this concept simplifies the process.

Additionally, he can generate power using the front edge of the club, leveraging force from behind rather than dragging the edge through. Traditional tracking methods like TrackMan cannot quantify these techniques.

I prefer executing the 'Mayo shot,' similar to the first example, regardless of the lie. This method produces shots that spin more and have a lower trajectory when hit from the fairway."

This translation aims to make the original paragraph's discussion on golf swing techniques and preferences more understandable by clarifying the technical aspects and the benefits of certain swing methods.

lol I actually pretty good. My experience is that you can’t really teach a motion only learn it

[GoGoErky]

10 hours ago, cav5 said:

lol I actually pretty good. My experience is that you can’t really teach a motion only learn it

Even if one is learning that means they are self teaching. But any motion can be taught. 

[doctor220]

19 hours ago, cav5 said:

Starting to realize. Or could be that I reached out and told him a few weeks ago lol. Good thing my feel knew the facts!

 

Hit it low on the face. Physics are physics. What would trackman be missing 

[cav5]

53 minutes ago, GoGoErky said:

Even if one is learning that means they are self teaching. But any motion can be taught. 

I get the predicament of my wording, but its true, and precisely why I wrote it that way. Motions and swings are learned through proper focus not by teaching swing mechanics.

 

Focus on little details like steep and shallow and AoA and trackman holds us all back, we just don't want to believe it.

 

Nobody needs to know or be taught a single law of physics in order to have a world class motion.

 

 

[GoGoErky]

2 hours ago, cav5 said:

I get the predicament of my wording, but its true, and precisely why I wrote it that way. Motions and swings are learned through proper focus not by teaching swing mechanics.

 

Focus on little details like steep and shallow and AoA and trackman holds us all back, we just don't want to believe it.

 

Nobody needs to know or be taught a single law of physics in order to have a world class motion.

 

 

Nothing occurs naturally. The instructor is there to teach and guide the student thru learning the motion. It happens in every sport. The QB coach works with the QB to go thru drills to change a motion the coach wants the qb to use to make him better, same with a pitcher, catcher, fielder. Golf isn’t any different. If a golfer doesn’t know how to set the wrist properly then the instructor teaches them what to do and how to do it.

The student, athlete or whatever you want to call them then practices the motion to engrain the motor pattern 

[Deadaimz]

35 minutes ago, GoGoErky said:

Nothing occurs naturally. The instructor is there to teach and guide the student thru learning the motion. It happens in every sport. The QB coach works with the QB to go thru drills to change a motion the coach wants the qb to use to make him better, same with a pitcher, catcher, fielder. Golf isn’t any different. If a golfer doesn’t know how to set the wrist properly then the instructor teaches them what to do and how to do it.

The student, athlete or whatever you want to call them then practices the motion to engrain the motor pattern 

100% agree. The talent code sheds a great light on this. 

[cav5]

@Deadaimz @GoGoErky I understand where you are coming from but I disagree from a motion standpoint. Game situations and that stuff sure. Focusing on the motion is not it. Plenty of great players that do not set the wrist properly or whatever that is. Maybe scheffler or rahm can tell us how to do it.

 

There are people who are lucky and learn it young and then there are those that focus and practice on it for years. There's no in between. It has nothing to do with wrist sets.

[cav5]

Magic? Or throwing the head correctly

 

https://www.instagram.com/reel/C3NtTu-uxuY/?igsh=MWJ1c2k0YnZmNjduMA==

[PedronNiall]

On 2/14/2024 at 5:51 PM, GolfTurkey said:

Here's an example of a guy hitting 11 down while maintaining functional dynamic loft (45, 46 and 48 degrees in the 3 shots).

 

Face is a bit open at address but it doesn't look like he's doing anything particularly weird or difficult to deliver those numbers.

 

https://www.instagram.com/reel/C2vVDwuS7t3/?igsh=YmJzdmU1OWIwcWkw

Those seem to be the differentiators, how much the face is open at address plus initial loft. So a lob--which is a little more than is advised in most cases for the casual golfer--set at greater than its starting loft would be optimal, which agrees with what the opening video showcased. A 56 sitting square at address is going to hit a launch angle requiring more landing area to grab; a 60 sitting open additional degrees is fine.

 

A little open could be helpful anyway to allow the club to glide with mushy lies, but could get iffy for someone trying to manage firm, tighter lies.

 

Does Mayo discuss that part of setup? All the related videos in here showcase an open face at address but noticeably open isn't always the goal with pitching or chipping.

[GolfTurkey]

6 hours ago, PedronNiall said:

Those seem to be the differentiators, how much the face is open at address plus initial loft. So a lob--which is a little more than is advised in most cases for the casual golfer--set at greater than its starting loft would be optimal, which agrees with what the opening video showcased. A 56 sitting square at address is going to hit a launch angle requiring more landing area to grab; a 60 sitting open additional degrees is fine.

 

A little open could be helpful anyway to allow the club to glide with mushy lies, but could get iffy for someone trying to manage firm, tighter lies.

 

Does Mayo discuss that part of setup? All the related videos in here showcase an open face at address but noticeably open isn't always the goal with pitching or chipping.

 

IIRC, he doesn't necessarily prescribe a certain amount open, just whatever produces the right numbers for the intended shot.

 

Too much dynamic loft would cause slippage if you're trying to hit a ~10 down low spinner because spin loft would be the wrong side of the "spin loft mountain"

[cav5]

17 hours ago, PedronNiall said:

Those seem to be the differentiators, how much the face is open at address plus initial loft. So a lob--which is a little more than is advised in most cases for the casual golfer--set at greater than its starting loft would be optimal, which agrees with what the opening video showcased. A 56 sitting square at address is going to hit a launch angle requiring more landing area to grab; a 60 sitting open additional degrees is fine.

 

A little open could be helpful anyway to allow the club to glide with mushy lies, but could get iffy for someone trying to manage firm, tighter lies.

 

Does Mayo discuss that part of setup? All the related videos in here showcase an open face at address but noticeably open isn't always the goal with pitching or chipping.

It seems like you need set up more left and feel like head gets back out quicker than when face is square. It won’t actually but when you open it the part of the head you feel swinging is going to get behind you quicker and if you overdo it coming through you’ll scrap or drop kick it.