New to the OC, greens fees are crazy @_@

[TRheezy]

Just moved to Huntington Beach for work and was shocked how expensive golf is out here. Not only that, but it also seems pretty difficult to get a tee time or avoid a six-hour round on the weekends. In search of some decent tracks at a reasonable rate. I have played Los Lagos, which I thought was kinda garbage for the price of the greens fee.  And I have played the Navy Course, which isn't too bad for the price, especially when the twilight fee kicks in.  And I learned that I can book a tee time there 21 days in advance, so that makes it more appealing. But open to any other suggestions people have. 

[SoCalTitleist]

Try Riverside County , anything reasonable in OC is going to be crap .

[TRheezy]

2 hours ago, SoCalTitleist said:

Try Riverside County , anything reasonable in OC is going to be crap .

Thanks, I was afraid of that. 

[johnrobison]

Navy was always my go-to course many years ago. Last time out was a pretty slow round but still probably better than most. Sad thing is that I don't play much these days primarily because of pace of play. And NEVER on the weekend, unless I drive out to Goose Creek or somewhere 45+ min away. If you can get out at dawn, Mile Square will have a decent pace. Maybe El Do and Big Rec, too, but I haven't been there recently so not certain.

[tw422]

Agreed on the above rec's in Long Beach.  I would add Lakewood CC and Skylinks although you will run into the same issues in terms of tee time availability, conditions and PoP.  Unfortuntely what you are experiencing is pretty typical for LA area public golf. Literally the worst place in the country in terms of choice, pace of play, conditions and cost.  

Edited February 27 by tw422

[hlca]

LA is a total golf desert.  OC has some decent courses, but they are really expensive.  In Riverside and San Diego, you can play good courses for more of a reasonable price.  

[Turmoil35x]

Golf is tough in the LA/OC area.  Rounds are long, and greens fees are expensive.  Weekends are easily 6+ hour rounds if you aren't able to get in the first few groups going out.   

 

Near HB there is Meadowlark, Lakewood CC, Skylinks, El Dorado, Miles Square, and Navy.  You would definitely run into pace of play issues on all of these courses during the weekend.  Courses in OC are going to be very expensive as Strawberry/Oak Creek/Black Gold are over $150 weekend rates now, and the other courses are either private or resort courses.  

 

Your best bet for weekend rounds that aren't crazy long or outrageously expensive are to get out of the central LA/OC areas.  I highly recommend Rustic Canyon out in Moorpark (around $110 for the weekend rate and is a top rated public course).  There are also good courses out in Riverside/San Bernardino that would be worth the hour+ drive.  Goosecreek (one of my favorites, but very hard to get morning weekend tee times), Los Serranos, Eagle Glen, Sierra Lakes, and Tukwet are usually around the $100 weekend rates.  

[Jgolfer99]

Public golf in the LA area is the worst in the country in my opinion and experience.  You really need to venture out into either Ventura County or Riverside area for decent options generally speaking.  To be fair to the LA city/county courses, outside of aerification for maybe 1 week they are all open every day of the year and get constant play and traffic 7 days a week with no break, very little irrigation due to lack of rain and water restrictions and virtually 0 budget to work with for maintenance.  Compare that to Midwest or east coast where courses are closed for 5 months due to cold which provides ample time for grass to heal, rain/irrigation is not an issue and local municipalities are committed to more investment for the most part.  Then finally add into the mix the insane overpopulation of LA and you see why it is how it is unfortunately. 

[TRheezy]

On 3/11/2024 at 4:45 PM, Turmoil35x said:

Golf is tough in the LA/OC area.  Rounds are long, and greens fees are expensive.  Weekends are easily 6+ hour rounds if you aren't able to get in the first few groups going out.   

 

Near HB there is Meadowlark, Lakewood CC, Skylinks, El Dorado, Miles Square, and Navy.  You would definitely run into pace of play issues on all of these courses during the weekend.  Courses in OC are going to be very expensive as Strawberry/Oak Creek/Black Gold are over $150 weekend rates now, and the other courses are either private or resort courses.  

 

Your best bet for weekend rounds that aren't crazy long or outrageously expensive are to get out of the central LA/OC areas.  I highly recommend Rustic Canyon out in Moorpark (around $110 for the weekend rate and is a top rated public course).  There are also good courses out in Riverside/San Bernardino that would be worth the hour+ drive.  Goosecreek (one of my favorites, but very hard to get morning weekend tee times), Los Serranos, Eagle Glen, Sierra Lakes, and Tukwet are usually around the $100 weekend rates.  

I think that I have come to the realization that I will just have to play Navy most of the time for the next couple of years. Luckily I am first priority for time there, so getting the time I want is not a big hassle and greens fee are only $31 to walk (my wife plays too, so all prices basically double).  I think I can play Trump for around $100, so if I want to treat myself for the day I will probably head out that way. Really miss those Southeast prices, I mean I could play Kiawah Ocean Course for $80 when I lived in Charleston.   

[johnrobison]

14 hours ago, TRheezy said:

I think that I have come to the realization that I will just have to play Navy most of the time for the next couple of years. Luckily I am first priority for time there, so getting the time I want is not a big hassle and greens fee are only $31 to walk (my wife plays too, so all prices basically double).  I think I can play Trump for around $100, so if I want to treat myself for the day I will probably head out that way. Really miss those Southeast prices, I mean I could play Kiawah Ocean Course for $80 when I lived in Charleston.   

Prices are one thing but pace of play is what's really got me down. How is that out at Navy these days?

[tw422]

5 hours ago, johnrobison said:

Prices are one thing but pace of play is what's really got me down. How is that out at Navy these days?

Totally agree.  I played at Los Verdes this weekend and there was a bunch of talk about 4 1/2 hours and we are strictly monitoring it....blah blah...I do give them credit for addressing it and for not allowing 5 somes but guess what we still finished in 5 hours and we were right behind the group in front of us.  Slow play is here to stay and unless a course is willing to lose customers or get bad reviews because they actively address it by telling groups to move faster or skip holes things will never change.  Some if it is education.  What tees are you playing?  If you have 5 iron in on a par 4 everytime your playing the wrong tees.  Do you really need to line up a 2 foot put?  Do you need to wait on your second shot on Par 5 when the green is 260 out?  Stuff like that is what slows things down.

Edited March 14 by tw422

[Pepperturbo]

Played Los Serranos North last week between rain, 4.5hrs, which is good.  Sometimes POP is better than other times at 5hrs.  Haven't experienced longer on weekends in quite some time. 

 

Since COVID, greens fees have gone up quite a bit.  POP is slower than other places in the country, those places are NOT dealing with the volume of golfers that SOCAL has.  Best I can suggest, adapt; otherwise you'll always be frustrated, and it's just not worth being aggravated all the time. 

 

Note; I am not going to adjust the tees I play because I might have a long iron in.

[tw422]

10 minutes ago, Pepperturbo said:

Played Los Serranos North last week between rain, 4.5hrs, which is good.  Sometimes POP is better than other times at 5hrs.  Haven't experienced longer on weekends in quite some time. 

 

Since COVID, greens fees have gone up quite a bit.  POP is slower than other places in the country, those places are NOT dealing with the volume of golfers that SOCAL has.  Best I can suggest, adapt; otherwise you'll always be frustrated, and it's just not worth being aggravated all the time. 

 

Note; I am not going to adjust the tees I play because I might have a long iron in.

Totally agree on all points re: COVID and POP in a pop dense area like SoCal.  My point about reconsidering tees based on second shot is really about what happens with most of someone's second shots.  Not saying someone should switch tees because they may have a long iron in on a long par 4 - it's going to happen from time time.  If you are averaging 220 off the tee my point is should you really be playing the blue or black tees?  This is one of the main causes of slow play.  You may be able to hit a green 70-80% of the time from 180 yds with a 5 iron but most can't and ultimately this is what slows rounds down.  

[Pepperturbo]

2 hours ago, tw422 said:

Totally agree on all points re: COVID and POP in a pop dense area like SoCal.  My point about reconsidering tees based on second shot is really about what happens with most of someone's second shots.  Not saying someone should switch tees because they may have a long iron in on a long par 4 - it's going to happen from time time.  If you are averaging 220 off the tee my point is should you really be playing the blue or black tees?  This is one of the main causes of slow play.  You may be able to hit a green 70-80% of the time from 180 yds with a 5 iron but most can't and ultimately this is what slows rounds down.  

Maybe true, but the common POP here in SOCAL is caused by a number of reasons, including the scenario you present.  Full fields can only go so fast, and tournaments are a factor. 

 

The guy hitting 220 off the tee isn't going to change the POP of the field by moving to shorter tees.  Most of those guys are older and already play White tees, least that's what I regularly see.   For that to have an impact, EVERYONE, including the longer - hitting mid to Hicap guys with no directional control that constantly lose balls left and right to OB, or spend excessive time looking for their balls in the left or right junk should move up too.  One buddy loses a few balls per round, is a 12 handi and drives are 240-260.  He would still be looking for his last ball if I didn't kick him in the azz to drop and let's go.

 

Having been on the BOD of two clubs with over 1000 members, POP was always a priority; we know there is no one responsible culprit.  The primary problem is the sliver segment of people that play golf that are rushing to get done because they have something else to attend to; they shouldn't play golf during prime time.  If they weren't on the course, there would not be a POP problem; most of us can live with POP.  The world of golfers is too diverse today to get everyone on the same timetable, just to accommodate the sliver in a rush.

Edited March 14 by Pepperturbo

[tw422]

25 minutes ago, Pepperturbo said:

Maybe true, but the common POP here in SOCAL is caused by a number of reasons, including the scenario you present.  Full fields can only go so fast, and tournaments are a factor. 

 

The guy hitting 220 off the tee isn't going to change the POP of the field by moving to shorter tees.  Most of those guys are older and already play White tees, least that's what I regularly see.   For that to have an impact, EVERYONE, including the longer - hitting mid to Hicap guys with no directional control that constantly lose balls left and right to OB, or spend excessive time looking for their balls in the left or right junk should move up too.  One buddy loses a few balls per round, is a 12 handi and drives are 240-260.  He would still be looking for his last ball if I didn't kick him in the azz to drop and let's go.

 

Having been on the BOD of two clubs with over 1000 members, POP was always a priority; we know there is no one responsible culprit.  The primary problem is the sliver segment of people that play golf that are rushing to get done because they have something else to attend to; they shouldn't play golf during prime time.  If they weren't on the course, there would not be a POP problem; most of us can live with POP.  The world of golfers is too diverse today to get everyone on the same timetable, just to accommodate the sliver in a rush.

 

39 minutes ago, Pepperturbo said:

Maybe true, but the common POP here in SOCAL is caused by a number of reasons, including the scenario you present.  Full fields can only go so fast, and tournaments are a factor. 

 

The guy hitting 220 off the tee isn't going to change the POP of the field by moving to shorter tees.  Most of those guys are older and already play White tees, least that's what I regularly see.   For that to have an impact, EVERYONE, including the longer - hitting mid to Hicap guys with no directional control that constantly lose balls left and right to OB, or spend excessive time looking for their balls in the left or right junk should move up too.  One buddy loses a few balls per round, is a 12 handi and drives are 240-260.  He would still be looking for his last ball if I didn't kick him in the azz to drop and let's go.

 

Having been on the BOD of two clubs with over 1000 members, POP was always a priority; we know there is no one responsible culprit.  The primary problem is the sliver segment of people that play golf that are rushing to get done because they have something else to attend to; they shouldn't play golf during prime time.  If they weren't on the course, there would not be a POP problem; most of us can live with POP.  The world of golfers is too diverse today to get everyone on the same timetable, just to accommodate the sliver in a rush.

I agree with most/all of what you are saying and yes, although not realistic, I think everyone including the high hdcp, longer hitters, should move up.  It won't solve slow play but will help to minimize.  

 

Here's a thought though, wouldn't it be more fun for everyone if they could shoot lower scores and move faster?  Comedian Kat Williams said it best on Shannon Sharpe's podcast - he claims he's a good golfer and plays a lot.  When asked if he plays the tips, Kat said, "why should I?  I've found I don't get anything for that! 

   

 

[Pepperturbo]

41 minutes ago, tw422 said:

 

I agree with most/all of what you are saying and yes, although not realistic, I think everyone including the high hdcp, longer hitters, should move up.  It won't solve slow play but will help to minimize.  

 

Here's a thought though, wouldn't it be more fun for everyone if they could shoot lower scores and move faster?  Comedian Kat Williams said it best on Shannon Sharpe's podcast - he claims he's a good golfer and plays a lot.  When asked if he plays the tips, Kat said, "why should I?  I've found I don't get anything for that! 

   

 

I see scores as an effect of solid ball striking.  Arbitrary low scores are not the reason I play the game.  Yea, low scores are nice, only I want my golf to be about ball striking and challenge, so score takes care of itself.  What makes my boat float isn't for everyone.  

 

When I play 6k and shorter yardages, I leave woods in the bag, and use only irons; otherwise I lose focus.  I play a short course every month that way; goal is even par or under.  Saying I shot 69 recently but then qualifying it on a less than regulation course doesn't light my fire.  I might be unique, but that's me.  Reminds me of that KF tour guy shooting 57 on an elevated 6200yd short course; driver, flip wedge and birdie nearly every hole.  Yes, it's an accomplishment, except I bet the first thing he does is qualify it.    

 

Take care, PT.

Edited March 14 by Pepperturbo

[tw422]

23 minutes ago, Pepperturbo said:

I see scores as an effect of solid ball striking.  Arbitrary low scores are not the reason I play the game.  Yea, low scores are nice, only I want my golf to be about ball striking and challenge, so score takes care of itself.  What makes my boat float isn't for everyone.  

 

When I play 6k and shorter yardages, I leave woods in the bag, and use only irons; otherwise I lose focus.  I play a short course every month that way; goal is even par or under.  Saying I shot 69 recently but then qualifying it on a less than regulation course doesn't light my fire.  I might be unique, but that's me.  Reminds me of that KF tour guy shooting 57 on an elevated 6200yd short course; driver, flip wedge and birdie nearly every hole.  Yes, it's an accomplishment, except I bet the first thing he does is qualify it.    

 

Take care, PT.

All good, although I'm not sure anyone really asks what tees you played when you shoot a low score or break par?  I agree solid ball striking is part of it but outside of really skilled players course mgmt and the ability to hit greens more consistently are highly correlated to scores.  Regardless, and like you said, you do you.  

 

My argument for the KFT is that is what he should shoot on a course set up like that so he should not have to qualify it.  Those guys are so good that they are going to tear a course set up like that every time.

[TRheezy]

On 3/14/2024 at 4:30 AM, johnrobison said:

Prices are one thing but pace of play is what's really got me down. How is that out at Navy these days?

On the weekends you are looking at about 5 hours. 

[TRheezy]

Have a tee time at Navy, Sunday the 24th if anyone is interested.