OB Situation

[sui generis]

1 minute ago, Augster said:

The “unreasonable” part is I don’t think the Ref thought Valmaki could scale the fence to play the shot. He’s not exactly skinny. In effect, the Ref was fat-shaming Valmaki as they allowed a much thinner golfer to get that free relief earlier that was denied Valmaki. 

 

Where do you come up with this nonsense? 🙄

[Mr. Bean]

10 hours ago, nsxguy said:

 

While there's certainly something to be learned about risk/reward, common sense, and not taking unnecessary chances,,,,,, pro golfers also have many different ways of knowing where they stand.

 

Club and recreational golfers often do not, unless they're only playing one or more players from within their own group.

 

I doubt club golfers need to know where they stand as they are not earning their living from golf. However, in my country all the competitions above club level and most competitions on club level use electronic score cards so everyone knows exatcly where they stand at any time.

[Mr. Bean]

10 hours ago, Augster said:

TThe only criteria for free relief from that spot is not being “clearly unreasonable”. The way the ball was up against the fence, ANY player could have gone to the other side and whacked a 5-iron against the fence and the ball would have AT LEAST moved to where he eventually had a drop. He should have been entitled to a free drop as his ball was ALREADY in that sand. Even if it didn’t move very far, it would have moved away from the fence and maybe further into the sand, which he would have gotten relief from. 

 

I do not share your view here.

 

To me as a referee it is not enough a player could whack their ball to move a few centimeters but the stroke has to be somewhat controlable and advance the player's play. What you are suggesting here does not meet those criteria. Thus I agree with the professional referee having not given Välimäki a free relief.

[limegreengent]

The only reason that Valimaki did not get relief but Kim did get relief the previous day was that Kim raised the question about . “ what if I stand on the other side of the fence and stab it back onto the path “

 

The referee yielded to Kim that  such a  stroke  “MIGHT “  be considered reasonable and  he may  be entitled to relief”. But 

In my opinion The referee should have continued the conversation and asked the player - 

 

‘ ‘ If your ball was  lying on grass instead of the sand- would you really attempt to stab it a few feet  back further into  the course with  all those inherent risks , or would you take an unplayable which would guarantee that you desired intention was 100% achieved and be risk free.  “

We all know what the  correct answer to this question is  - and that the player only originally suggested such a stab  - because of the existence of the abnormal condition.

The referee should have asked more questions  - of course we do not know how Kim would have responded  and what would have resulted - but from his sheepish demeanour when granted free relief we may have received an answer with integrity .

Weak  refereeing in my opinion !  

 

The fence in question was made of  solid metal railings with the ball lodged against the railings on the course side.

 

Contrast that  situation with Justin Rose today at the  Palm  Beach course  on hole 13, when  standing out of bounds in “ someone’s garden “ and playing his ball lying underneath a fine net mesh OB  fence  temporarily  installed  ,  he   actually played  a stroke with a full swing and sent it a long way back on to the fairway.( ( a no risk stroke ) with the mesh fence gently flowing out of the way and the retuning to it’s original position.

 

This course set up  in Mexico, where Kim and Valimaki played , could also be criticised.

 

Why when you have an out of bounds scenario , do you tie a sandy area running alongside out of bounds railings  into a free relief situation. Just make the sandy part of the path and integral part of the course here , which would have achieved an equitable and faire outcome for all the other players, denying any free relief for such a down right bad stroke and consistent rulings.!

Too much molly coddling of players these days.

🥵

 

 

 

Edited March 1 by limegreengent

[sui generis]

7 minutes ago, limegreengent said:

Too much molly coddling of players these days.

 

 

Remember, it's just another TV show. 😉

[nsxguy]

4 hours ago, Mr. Bean said:

 

I doubt club golfers need to know where they stand as they are not earning their living from golf. However, in my country all the competitions above club level and most competitions on club level use electronic score cards so everyone knows exatcly where they stand at any time.

 

Whether they earn their livings as golfers is irrelevant. I've known a few golfers who would "kill" to win a $2 Nassau bet.

 

As for the phone, that's a great point. I suppose some of us old fogies are behind the times in some respects.

 

I've always had an aversion to talking over the phone and now, even with smartphones, the same applies as far as using them. As well, I have my computer in front of me all the time at home so I have almost zero reason, or desire, to use the internet or apps on my smartphone.

 

The few individual games I play in, 2 do have the scoring app and the 3rd does not, but I'm not about to risk the damage to a $600 phone by dropping it or having a sudden pop-up thunderstorm (so. Florida) come up and soak it. So, personally, I won't use it.

[Mr. Bean]

21 hours ago, nsxguy said:

The few individual games I play in, 2 do have the scoring app and the 3rd does not, but I'm not about to risk the damage to a $600 phone by dropping it or having a sudden pop-up thunderstorm (so. Florida) come up and soak it. So, personally, I won't use it.

 

I understand, then again...

 

a) around here people tend to have insurances that cover the damage on the phone either completely or almost completely

 

b) here in Finland we have things called waterproof golf bags. And those who do not possess a waterproof golf bag have other means of protecting their phones, such as plastic bags. For me it has always been enough to keep my phone in my back pocket and so far there has never been such a storm that I would have had to worry about it getting soaked. You see, most of us use umbrellas when it is raining...

 

😆

 

 

Edited March 2 by Mr. Bean

[Augster]

I’ve had a phone in my left front pocket while playing golf since 1997. There is practically zero chance of it getting wet enough to ruin it. That is an outcome I have never even thought of. 
 

I will release you of your fears. Don’t worry about your phone on the course. It’ll be just fine. 

[nsxguy]

39 minutes ago, Augster said:

I’ve had a phone in my left front pocket while playing golf since 1997. There is practically zero chance of it getting wet enough to ruin it. That is an outcome I have never even thought of. 
 

I will release you of your fears. Don’t worry about your phone on the course. It’ll be just fine. 

 

Frankly, there is more to it than simply a "fear" of it getting ruined by rain, having it bounce around in a hard place container/pocket in a cart, or by dropping it on a rock-hard surface - or even a fairway.

 

You may recall, when phones first hit the links, all the fuss about it ringing in one's backswing, another player talking on it while you're swinging (thinking (or not)) he wouldn't be heard by the player trying to play, players getting distracted checking the 'net or checking their texts and delaying play, and so on.

 

I guess those reasons still resonate with me. So, I just pack my phone in a safe place in my bag and take it out again when I'm done. Call it habit.

[nsxguy]

3 hours ago, Mr. Bean said:

 

I understand, then again...

 

a) around here people tend to have insurances that cover the damage on the phone either completely or almost completely

 

b) here in Finland we have things called waterproof golf bags. And those who do not possess a waterproof golf bag have other means of protecting their phones, such as plastic bags. For me it has always been enough to keep my phone in my back pocket and so far there has never been such a storm that I would have had to worry about it getting soaked. You see, most of us use umbrellas when it is raining...

 

😆

 

 

 

Fair enough.

 

Personally, I avoid playing in the rain whenever I can.

 

But ya rolls the dice and ya takes yer chances. Some of us are just a bit more (or less) careful.

 

As the Thais often say, "Up to you". 👍

[rogolf]

4 hours ago, Mr. Bean said:

 

I understand, then again...

a) around here people tend to have insurances that cover the damage on the phone either completely or almost completely

b) here in Finland we have things called waterproof golf bags. And those who do not possess a waterproof golf bag have other means of protecting their phones, such as plastic bags. For me it has always been enough to keep my phone in my back pocket and so far there has never been such a storm that I would have had to worry about it getting soaked. You see, most of us use umbrellas when it is raining...

 

😆

 

 

Passive brag?

And what does Finland do when it's snowing?

[Mr. Bean]

6 hours ago, rogolf said:

Passive brag?

And what does Finland do when it's snowing?

 

No, sheer sarcasm.

 

In fact, there are a few courses built on snow during the winter time but mostly people do other things than outdoor golf when courses are closed. There are other things outside golf, you know... 😉

[Mr. Bean]

7 hours ago, nsxguy said:

Personally, I avoid playing in the rain whenever I can.

 

 

I hate playing in the rain and outside competitions I do not do it but it was you who brought sudden thunderstorms into the equation and I got the impression they are the threat to get a phone soaked.

 

What you do is up to you, I am merely saying that you IMO you are oversensitive to perils towards using a phone on the course.

 

Btw, we have learned to mute our phones when playing. Certainly one may be forgetful once in a while but that is very rare. Maybe it is because so many of us use our phones for recording the scores during a round. It has become more and more rare to fill up cardboard score cards and my prognosis is that in next five years 1% or less is using them.

[nsxguy]

4 minutes ago, Mr. Bean said:

What you do is up to you, I am merely saying that you IMO you are oversensitive to perils towards using a phone on the course

 

Brother, I can't even end a polite discussion (with "fair enough") with you, can I ?

 

Fine, IMO, you are less sensitive to perils towards using a phone on the course.

 

Can we call it a draw now ?