Is The Search For The Original Ball Compulsory After A Better Provisional Played?

[Mudguard]

On 4/17/2024 at 1:31 AM, nikos74 said:

What motive does the player have to search for their ball in the weeds or trees if their provisional is on the fairway?  Only the opponent does if they are not shy about losing money or pride, hence the task falls upon them.

 

 

I have done exactly this in a match. Long par five, pine trees and scrub line the left hand side but still in bounds. My opponent was a big hitter, pulled it left into the junk. I was in the fairway with my tee shot. He then hits his provisional ball some 50m past my tee shot on this par five, he's probably an iron in and I might be lucky to get a wood on.

I find his first ball in the junk, he has no shot and can't take an unplayable as the line continues virtually indefinitely through the scrub. He can't take his provisional so his only option is to return to the tee to hit his third. So he conceded the hole. I mean is it fun thing to do? Not especially, but it was a serious match.

 

I had a round about discussion about this where I'm currently playing who don't use the Model Rule E5 for stroke and distance. It seems crazy as there are almost no penalty areas, yet there is plenty of scrubby short pine areas that line the holes that are 50/50 as to whether you'll find it. I've never hit so many provisional balls in my life. When I queried about the rule, as I'd asked what happens when someone finds their ball in these scrub areas, they've got choice often but to go back anyway. I was told, well maybe don't look for your first ball...

[Mr. Bean]

One thing that I have not yet noticed to have come up is the option for the player to go and make a stroke at their provisional ball before their opponent finds their original ball. The opponent may require that stroke to be cancelled but that stroke renders the original ball lost if the provisional ball was closer to the hole than where the original is expected to be. And for what I have read in most posts this is normally the case if the player would be willing to "declare their original ball lost".

 

Edited April 21 by Mr. Bean
typo

[bluedot]

I don’t think it’s been mentioned, but I believe a version of this happened to Mickelson at Torrey Pines a few years back.

 

If memory serves, he hit is tee shot way left into a steep drop off that wasn’t maintained.  He hit a provisional and just striped it; his intention was to not look for the first ball; he was hustling toward the provisional to play his next shot, but a spectator (or volunteer?) found his original ball and he had to play it.  He was not happy.

[Mr. Bean]

1 hour ago, bluedot said:

I don’t think it’s been mentioned, but I believe a version of this happened to Mickelson at Torrey Pines a few years back.

 

If memory serves, he hit is tee shot way left into a steep drop off that wasn’t maintained.  He hit a provisional and just striped it; his intention was to not look for the first ball; he was hustling toward the provisional to play his next shot, but a spectator (or volunteer?) found his original ball and he had to play it.  He was not happy.

 

Yes, that is a risk in big competitions.

 

When I am refereeing and see a ball hit wayward I always ask the player if they wants to have that ball searched or not. When there are spectators this may be challenging.

[Newby]

2 hours ago, bluedot said:

I don’t think it’s been mentioned, but I believe a version of this happened to Mickelson at Torrey Pines a few years back.

 

If memory serves, he hit is tee shot way left into a steep drop off that wasn’t maintained.  He hit a provisional and just striped it; his intention was to not look for the first ball; he was hustling toward the provisional to play his next shot, but a spectator (or volunteer?) found his original ball and he had to play it.  He was not happy.

During the 2001 Buick Invitational, Phil Mickelson and Frank Lickliter arrived at the 17th tee for their third sudden-death playoff hole. Both players drove their tee shots left into the cliffs, and both players properly announced and played provisional balls into the middle of the fairway. As they made their way to their provisional shots, Lickliter found his ball on the cliffs, while Mickelson directed hole marshals not to look for his ball. As Mickelson was about to play his provisional from the fairway, however, a marshal found Mickelson’s first ball. Under the Rules, once a player’s ball is potentially found, the player must identify the ball, and if it is his, he must proceed with it and abandon the provisional ball. So, both players’ original balls were found and the provisional balls were abandoned.

[sui generis]

1 hour ago, Mr. Bean said:

 

Yes, that is a risk in big competitions.

 

When I am refereeing and see a ball hit wayward I always ask the player if they wants to have that ball searched or not. When there are spectators this may be challenging.

 

Similarly, I was taught early on that even if I knew where the ball was likely to be to not venture over there until the player had begun to search. 😉

[sjn1]

On 4/15/2024 at 1:02 PM, antip said:

First a stroke into the woods. Yep, that happens. Then a hole out with the provisional. Er, never seen nor heard of it outside a rule-site hypothetical. And it happened in match play. Call me when it happens. With evidence.

 

I have ticked two of those boxes - an opponent had a hole in one. Problem was he skipped step one. 

 

 

 

 

 I have been in a game when  into the woods followed byhole in one  has happened in stroke play , so could have happened in match play 

[Mr. Bean]

21 minutes ago, sjn1 said:

 I have been in a game when  into the woods followed byhole in one  has happened in stroke play , so could have happened in match play 

 

Did he run to the hole while others were running into the woods to search for the original?

[antip]

4 hours ago, sjn1 said:

 I have been in a game when  into the woods followed byhole in one  has happened in stroke play , so could have happened in match play 

LOL, but it didn't.

One of my mates had two hole in ones in the same round. 

[sjn1]

On 4/21/2024 at 6:44 PM, Mr. Bean said:

 

Did he run to the hole while others were running into the woods to search for the original?

nope , once  we'd seen the ball go ino the hole  , nobody looked for the original