Is playing for average academic D1 that is underfunded worth it?

[jayslaysongolf]

1 hour ago, Golfquant said:

well this only applies for D1 & D2 athletes (since D3 doesn't give athletic scholarships)

 

Dude you sound like so many parents who push golf on kids because they think it easy and free money.

 

It bad enough for boys but the most unrealistic expectations on lies is on the girls side.

 

Girls have no money in sports and it especially true for golf.  In fact unlike the boys the chance to turn pro and make money after going to college is even worse than on the mens side.   The best players are wasting their time playing in college.
 

Also the Alumni doesn’t care about golfer’s and it even worse if they are women who go pro. 
 

When everything is said and done all you get is a degree from the school you went to u less you decided to jump around and never earn enough credit which happens way too much.

Edited May 8 by jayslaysongolf

[golferdad8]

1 hour ago, jayslaysongolf said:

 

Girls have no money in sports and it especially true for golf.  In fact unlike the boys the chance to turn pro and make money after going to college is even worse than on the mens side.   The best players are wasting their time playing in college.
 

Also the Alumni doesn’t care about golfer’s and it even worse if they are women who go pro. 
 

Not sure I agree w you on this point. 
Many women’s programs offer full rides (athletic & merit combos) in addition to NIL $. 
Check out OSU IG where women players are driving really nice Cadillacs 🙂 

https://www.instagram.com/p/C2spih2OqhF/?igsh=MzRlODBiNWFlZA==

[TroyB123]

6 minutes ago, golferdad8 said:

Not sure I agree w you on this point. 
Many women’s programs offer full rides (athletic & merit combos) in addition to NIL $. 
Check out OSU IG where women players are driving really nice Cadillacs 🙂 

https://www.instagram.com/p/C2spih2OqhF/?igsh=MzRlODBiNWFlZA==

Yeah, isn't the result of title ix that there is a lot more athletic scholarships in Women's sports than non-football Men's sports?

 

It seems if your only goal is getting free college, you should be getting your young girl into ice hockey.

[jda]

As discussed on here, athletic scholarships are just one source of college money.  That is all that is covered by Title IX.  Salary/cash, NIL, grants, aid, etc are not regulated that what that I know of.

 

Most schools do not have football, so that is 80+ women's schollies that are not there for those schools.

[leezer99]

13 minutes ago, TroyB123 said:

 

It seems if your only goal is getting free college, you should be getting your young girl into ice hockey.

If a school has a gymnastics program they get 100% free tuition at the D1 level. There are a couple of other women’s sports that get 100% afaik. 

[jayslaysongolf]

31 minutes ago, golferdad8 said:

Not sure I agree w you on this point. 
Many women’s programs offer full rides (athletic & merit combos) in addition to NIL $. 
Check out OSU IG where women players are driving really nice Cadillacs 🙂 

https://www.instagram.com/p/C2spih2OqhF/?igsh=MzRlODBiNWFlZA==

Look at the top programs they all have large teams way more than 6 players.

 

All one has to do is divide the number of scholarships and see that on average there getting less then 50% in a lot cases.

 

Some get money but a lot are either walk ons or getting shafted because they want to play at a high ranked school.

 

I wouldn’t read too much into a local car dealership giving free loaners to athletes it cheap advertising and minimal costs and likely is there because they give all the athletes at the school something and extensive advertising at the stadium.

 

There isn’t much money in womens sports period. If there was money sloshing around you wouldn’t see such a high dropout with d1 women golfers out there.

 

 

[Tugu]

For those that believe in the infallibility of college coaches.

 

The above comes from a former Stanford All American. He has mentored a winner of The Prestige, a US Am runner up and multiple year All American, 10 time college winner and 4 time All American who is now on the PGA tour (not a subsidary like the Korn Ferry). The above are just the recent ones he's mentored.

 

Keeping ones job is not necessarily an indication of proficiency at said job. One day when both my boys are done, I'm going to let the genie out of the bottle with some anecdotes. I'm sure many here will have much to add too.

[Abh159]

10 minutes ago, TroyB123 said:

Yeah, isn't the result of title ix that there is a lot more athletic scholarships in Women's sports than non-football Men's sports?

 

It seems if your only goal is getting free college, you should be getting your young girl into ice hockey.

 

Not exactly. 

 

Title IX does not require schools to offer an equal number of scholarships but an equal opportunity to play. Basically women and men must be provided equal opportunities to participate in sports. For example, if 40% of the athletes in the school’s athletic program are women, then women should receive about 40% of the available athletic scholarships. 

 

That being said... Because football takes up a large portion of the available men's scholarships at most schools there tends to be a discrepancy because there isn't really a women's sport that is equivalent to football. The result is that in the other sports which have both a men's and women's team (golf, baseball/softball, and etc.) the women's side tends to have more available scholarships.

 

FWIW Title IX applies to every aspect of education and not just athletics. Both men and women are supposed to have equal access to coursework, financial aid, housing, health benefits, and so on...

[MB19]

40 minutes ago, leezer99 said:

If a school has a gymnastics program they get 100% free tuition at the D1 level. There are a couple of other women’s sports that get 100% afaik. 

I know I am likely preaching to the choir here, but there have to be far less level 10 female gymnasts in the United States than female golfers good enough to make a D1 golf team.  The parental investment to get a girl to that level 10 and D1--in time, travel and money--was something shared with me by an old friend, and it was immense.   

 

In the case of my friend's daughter, they crammed in so much effort to get experience and exposure to big programs only to have her go to her commit to her hometown school towards the end of her freshman year of HS.  Oklahoma came in with their offer right after she committed, which was bittersweet for them then... but she got to be the cornerstone of making her hometown school's program pretty competitive.  I think they feel it was all worth it, which is great.  

 

From a 10,000ft view, going for that gymnastic scholarship HAM from age 6-14 looked absolutely exhausting but I guess he didn't have to work the bag in 90* heat--here's to that.

 

Mind you, I'm not taking anything away from the elite girls and their families who travel the country (and for some, the world) chasing tournament golf hardware.  That's one heck of a grind, to be sure.

 

 

[MB19]

45 minutes ago, Tugu said:

For those that believe in the infallibility of college coaches.

 

The above comes from a former Stanford All American. He has mentored a winner of The Prestige, a US Am runner up and multiple year All American, 10 time college winner and 4 time All American who is now on the PGA tour (not a subsidary like the Korn Ferry). The above are just the recent ones he's mentored.

 

Keeping ones job is not necessarily an indication of proficiency at said job. One day when both my boys are done, I'm going to let the genie out of the bottle with some anecdotes. I'm sure many here will have much to add too.

Finally, some thread-worthy content 🙂

[LawGenius305]

1 hour ago, golferdad8 said:

Not sure I agree w you on this point. 
Many women’s programs offer full rides (athletic & merit combos) in addition to NIL $. 
Check out OSU IG where women players are driving really nice Cadillacs 🙂 

https://www.instagram.com/p/C2spih2OqhF/?igsh=MzRlODBiNWFlZA==

Many? There are some, but a lot of that scholarship money goes to international players in the women's game.

 

1 hour ago, Abh159 said:

 

Not exactly. 

 

Title IX does not require schools to offer an equal number of scholarships but an equal opportunity to play. Basically women and men must be provided equal opportunities to participate in sports. For example, if 40% of the athletes in the school’s athletic program are women, then women should receive about 40% of the available athletic scholarships. 

 

That being said... Because football takes up a large portion of the available men's scholarships at most schools there tends to be a discrepancy because there isn't really a women's sport that is equivalent to football. The result is that in the other sports which have both a men's and women's team (golf, baseball/softball, and etc.) the women's side tends to have more available scholarships.

 

FWIW Title IX applies to every aspect of education and not just athletics. Both men and women are supposed to have equal access to coursework, financial aid, housing, health benefits, and so on...

What is coming is that there will no longer be scholarship limits. Will happen in the P2 by 2030. Every athlete in the P2 will go for free.

[LawGenius305]

2 hours ago, Tugu said:

For those that believe in the infallibility of college coaches.

 

The above comes from a former Stanford All American. He has mentored a winner of The Prestige, a US Am runner up and multiple year All American, 10 time college winner and 4 time All American who is now on the PGA tour (not a subsidary like the Korn Ferry). The above are just the recent ones he's mentored.

 

Keeping ones job is not necessarily an indication of proficiency at said job. One day when both my boys are done, I'm going to let the genie out of the bottle with some anecdotes. I'm sure many here will have much to add too.

I can tell you stories that would make the hair on the back of your neck curl. I am not going to say all, but in my experience the athletic departments at schools are there to keep the image of the school. This image is to be kept to keep the donors coming. They don't care if athletes are mistreated as long as they have a way to sweep it under the rug to protect the image of the university and the coach. My daughter played at a D1 school that did just this. After mediators, attorneys, and an influential judge got involved the ordeal was laid on the desk of the University President. It went to University HR out of the hands of the Athletic department. HR told Athletic department to get rid of the coach based on claims of racism, mental abuse, and sexual harassment.  6 of the players were getting psychiatric help, 4 were on anxiety medication, 3 developed eating disorders, and 1 suicidal. I know what D1 is about. Again, this isn't every school, but kids talk and it happens more than you think. More predominant on the female side than with males.

Edited May 8 by LawGenius305

[jda]

I am going to add to my parent manifesto that nobody should expect their college coaches to be good at the actual game.  At best, it is usually third on the list of their duties behind keeping their job and doing what their boss/AD wants them to do.  The game might even below the number three thing.  This is no different than what the kids are going to experience in the job market with incompetent bosses and stuff.

 

There are coaches who are really good at all of it.

 

My kids had mostly good coaches who knew the game and how to deal with the AD, but had no idea how to instruct or teach some/most parts of it.  Sometimes an assistant would know, but if they were any good, they were off to a better job in no time.  My kids were part of good cultures where the kids were required to be good teammates and people and this goes a long way - it was mostly fun, nobody was hard to deal with and they were sisters, etc.  Culture is worth a lot.

 

I will say this - I tell every young lady that I meet to stay out of the athletic dorms or apartments of the football and baseball boys.  I have seen accusations from these boys get covered up and stuff.  Most of the boys have never suffered any consequences of any of their actions and too many are entitled jerks.  Just stay away from these places.

[jda]

Oh, and yes... the Athletic Department is the number one advertising wing of most colleges and universities.  

[Tugu]

1 hour ago, jda said:

I am going to add to my parent manifesto that nobody should expect their college coaches to be good at the actual game.  At best, it is usually third on the list of their duties behind keeping their job and doing what their boss/AD wants them to do.  The game might even below the number three thing.  This is no different than what the kids are going to experience in the job market with incompetent bosses and stuff.

 

There are coaches who are really good at all of it.

 

 

Geez, does anyone actually think or expect most golf coaches can break 90 on their home course if they had to do it tomorrow?

 

Diligently doing their administrative/managerial jobs to the best of their ability and not just coasting like a public servant would be enough for me personally. 

[jayslaysongolf]

1 hour ago, Tugu said:

Geez, does anyone actually think or expect most golf coaches can break 90 on their home course if they had to do it tomorrow?

 

Diligently doing their administrative/managerial jobs to the best of their ability and not just coasting like a public servant would be enough for me personally. 

some coaches are bad you don’t even have to to talk to them to see this.

 

Every former college player I talked to has a story to tell. Some good but everyone  has to deal with stuff they shouldn’t have had to.

A coach who can’t break 90 is a problem and shouldn’t be a coach. I expect that they have had some level of play in there past otherwise it would be wise to go somewhere else.

Edited May 8 by jayslaysongolf

[LawGenius305]

13 hours ago, jayslaysongolf said:

some coaches are bad you don’t even have to to talk to them to see this.

 

Every former college player I talked to has a story to tell. Some good but everyone  has to deal with stuff they shouldn’t have had to.

A coach who can’t break 90 is a problem and shouldn’t be a coach. I expect that they have had some level of play in there past otherwise it would be wise to go somewhere else.

John Wooden is arguably the best coach in the history of sports and never played in his life. A coach does not have to be good at a game in order to coach. They have to good at teaching, motivating, game plan, developing fundamentals, setting up practices for them to succeed. They also need to set up an infrastructure within the team of leadership and a brotherhood/sisterhood. That team has to be a family to succeed. There are plenty of great players that have had no business coaching.

[HoosierHacker89]

On 5/7/2024 at 9:26 AM, LawGenius305 said:

This is a false narrative for non revenue sports.

Its not a narrative. I don't know the first thing about how college sports scholarships work. My point is directed completely at going to school debt free. If someone can go to college debt free this is the best option. 

[LawGenius305]

14 hours ago, HoosierHacker89 said:

Its not a narrative. I don't know the first thing about how college sports scholarships work. My point is directed completely at going to school debt free. If someone can go to college debt free this is the best option. 

You are right. It is a false narrative and you just said you don't know how they work. Golf gets 4.5 scholarships for a 14 member men's team at D1 schools. Top 6-7 players generally get something and the rest maybe books. That means those 7 players have to split the 4.5 scholarships. Many D1 schools are not fully funded and don't even get 4.5 per team. To get a full ride a player needs great academics to supplement that athletic scholarship. The only full ride sports are football, basketball, volleyball, tennis, and gymnastics. Every other athlete including golf is paying some sort of money for college.

 

Going to school debt free is not the best option either. If playing golf to go debt free in a toxic environment, no it is not a good option. Have to go to school and play where the coach has instilled a good atmosphere and the players are good teammates. Money involved is only part of the process.

 

D2 schools get 6.5 scholarships per team but can only give up to 50%. D3 gets no athletic scholarship money, but D3 can find more money for athletes.

[golferdad8]

2 hours ago, LawGenius305 said:

D3 gets no athletic scholarship money, but D3 can find more money for athletes.

Lots of good stuff, but D3 finding more money for athletes are really at the top golf/academic schools.

If going to Carnegie Mellon or Emory, good luck getting $ unless it's financial support for lower income (which most top ranked golf families don't qualify for). 

Edited May 21 by golferdad8

[LawGenius305]

2 hours ago, golferdad8 said:

Lots of good stuff, but D3 finding more money for athletes are really at the top golf/academic schools.

If going to Carnegie Mellon or Emory, good luck getting $ unless it's financial support for lower income (which most top ranked golf families don't qualify for). 

These two schools are like going to Harvard. Both around a 10% acceptance rate. If you are going to either you probably don't need any money. As an example, Michael Burry's son plays for Emory.

Edited May 21 by LawGenius305

[golferdad8]

7 minutes ago, LawGenius305 said:

These two schools are like going to Harvard. Both around a 10% acceptance rate. If you are going to either you probably don't need any money. As an example, Michael Burry's son plays are Emory.

Both schools are strong and can probably beat half the D1s in NCAA.

I think my son played w/ Burry during Kerry Cup (where Emory coach participated).

 

Emory golf has become particularly strong - they've been recruiting some top ranked golfers, including many that were good enough for Ivy golf.

That said, 10% acceptance rate is not the same as going to Harvard (or other Ivies) where the acceptance rates are closer to 4-6%.

In fact, getting through and connecting with Ivy coaches are tougher than general admissions.

 

As an example, Harvard gets 400+ interested golfers per year - the coach talks with 4-5 potential recruits and takes 2 players. 

TWO out of 400+. That's much lower than the 4% acceptance rate.

 

 

 

[LawGenius305]

5 minutes ago, golferdad8 said:

Both schools are strong and can probably beat half the D1s in NCAA.

I think my son played w/ Burry during Kerry Cup (where Emory coach participated).

 

 

 

No Doubt. I estimate the top 10 of DIII can beat half the D1 teams. Methodist and Carnegie right now can compete with more than half.  Coach Sjoberg is a great college coach.  The problem with Emory is they are pampered and choke in big moments.

 

[leezer99]

34 minutes ago, LawGenius305 said:

These two schools are like going to Harvard. Both around a 10% acceptance rate. If you are going to either you probably don't need any money. As an example, Michael Burry's son plays are Emory.

I guess I never considered Burry had a kid. That guy is wild. 

[golferdad8]

4 hours ago, LawGenius305 said:The problem with Emory is they are pampered and choke in big moments.

 

I think Emory had an IG post in front of a private plane going to a tournament, thus confirming that they are pampered. 

[Golfquant]

7 minutes ago, golferdad8 said:

I think Emory had an IG post in front of a private plane going to a tournament, thus confirming that they are pampered. 

flying private is a huge competitive advantage in recruiting

 

more teams should advertise it (if they actually do)

[Tugu]

Can someone please explain to me how divisions are determined? 

[leezer99]

21 minutes ago, Tugu said:

Can someone please explain to me how divisions are determined? 

 

Size and resources. 

[Abh159]

15 hours ago, golferdad8 said:

I think Emory had an IG post in front of a private plane going to a tournament, thus confirming that they are pampered. 

 

Doesn't exactly mean they are pampered. Although it is a nice perk. 

 

I played at an SEC school and we would be allowed to take one of the university private planes on occasion. We didn't do it every time (for example, if flying across the country we would do commercial), but for 1 or 2 tournaments a year we used the jet. It was much easier logistically (and probably cheaper) for the athletic dept to let us use a jet compared to buying round-trip, individual plane tickets for 7-8 people. 

 

Generally, our "rule" was if the tournament site was over an 8 hour drive we would fly.

[LawGenius305]

2 hours ago, Tugu said:

Can someone please explain to me how divisions are determined? 

 

2 hours ago, leezer99 said:

 

Size and resources. 

There are also a minimum number of sports the schools must offer.  

https://www.ncsasports.org/recruiting/how-to-get-recruited/college-divisions

 

1 hour ago, Abh159 said:

 

Doesn't exactly mean they are pampered. Although it is a nice perk. 

 

I played at an SEC school and we would be allowed to take one of the university private planes on occasion. We didn't do it every time (for example, if flying across the country we would do commercial), but for 1 or 2 tournaments a year we used the jet. It was much easier logistically (and probably cheaper) for the athletic dept to let us use a jet compared to buying round-trip, individual plane tickets for 7-8 people. 

 

Generally, our "rule" was if the tournament site was over an 8 hour drive we would fly.

There is a NCAA rule that limits how far a college can travel without having to fly or breaking up the drive to two days. 

Edited May 22 by LawGenius305