Altering One Length Irons

[Brianfarm6767]

I have loved the idea of one length irons for years and played a couple of sets as I am always tinkering and looking to improve my equipment as my golf game grows. I currently switched over to a home built set of Maltby KE4 Max irons for the past season but getting the itch to give one length another go. I have a unique setup where I feel my most consistent club is my 9 iron. When I get up to 7 iron and above something makes me less confident over the ball and I usually only carry up to a 7 iron in the bag and then a 5 and 6 hybrid and 5 and 7 wood for my gapping. My carry distance on my 9 iron is 150-155 currently and 7 iron around 175-180. 
 

My current thought is ordering a set of one length irons one inch short to match my 9 iron length since that is what I feel comfortable with. My miss is always trending left and on a lie board I tend to strike slightly heel side so I don’t think the flatter lie would be a bad thing and could always be adjusted if needed as the one inch shorter would only make them play  one degree flatter than standard. 
 

Another idea was with my wedges taking the 54 degree wedge and ordering one bent 2 degrees strong and one 2 degrees weak and get my normal 52-56-60 degree gapping when paired up with a normal length lob wedge for bunker and flop shots. 
 

I am planning on getting a fitting done soon to play around with shaft weights and to get my lie confirmed to what I am seeing at home. But not very possible to mess around with these other ideas in a fitting since most fitters only offer 6 irons and no one length options. 
 

Any input or issues I may be overlooking would be greatly appreciated. 

[DocBrown3887]

Assuming your lofts aren't jacked your swing speed for 9 iron 150 and 7 iron 175 carry is plenty to make one length 5 and 6 irons playable, maybe even a 4. 

 

I will say that getting uncomfortable above a 9 iron is probably fairly unique imo, I would think many people would start feeling uncomfortable around 6 iron. I would suggest thinking about 8 iron rather than 7 iron length to try, but the shorter you go the more gapping issues you will have with longer irons and any hybrids you make into OL.

 

There is a thread on here where a user is custom building Edel irons. The adjustable weights in the back may help with your left bias, worth a look:

 

 

[Milfordlefty]

What length do you play single length? (7i, 8i?). Based on your 9i & 7i distances, you appear to have enough swing speed for 6 & 5i single length. Slower swing speed golfers usually start seeing issues below the 7i as they are not fast enough to elevate a long iron played at 7i or 8i length. Here is a thought, play 7i up at the 9i length and then play the 5 & 6i at 6i length. The issue you may have is the feel of a heavier club in the 5 & 6i single length club head, as single length club heads are usually all weighted like a std 7i or 8i head. You could experiment with the KE4 Max heads as they have a removable weight. Using the 8i as base weight, you would need to lighten the 9i and add to the 7i to match the 8i. You would need to add weight to the 5i head to match the std weight of the 6i. Pull the 7 & 8i shafts to tip trim and butt cut to match the 9i and same for the 5i to match the 6i. If it doesn't work out, it just means you need to replace 3 shafts. Good luck in your experiment.

[ChaosTheory]

7 hours ago, Brianfarm6767 said:

I have loved the idea of one length irons for years and played a couple of sets as I am always tinkering and looking to improve my equipment as my golf game grows. I currently switched over to a home built set of Maltby KE4 Max irons for the past season but getting the itch to give one length another go. I have a unique setup where I feel my most consistent club is my 9 iron. When I get up to 7 iron and above something makes me less confident over the ball and I usually only carry up to a 7 iron in the bag and then a 5 and 6 hybrid and 5 and 7 wood for my gapping. My carry distance on my 9 iron is 150-155 currently and 7 iron around 175-180. 
 

My current thought is ordering a set of one length irons one inch short to match my 9 iron length since that is what I feel comfortable with. My miss is always trending left and on a lie board I tend to strike slightly heel side so I don’t think the flatter lie would be a bad thing and could always be adjusted if needed as the one inch shorter would only make them play  one degree flatter than standard. 
 

Another idea was with my wedges taking the 54 degree wedge and ordering one bent 2 degrees strong and one 2 degrees weak and get my normal 52-56-60 degree gapping when paired up with a normal length lob wedge for bunker and flop shots. 
 

I am planning on getting a fitting done soon to play around with shaft weights and to get my lie confirmed to what I am seeing at home. But not very possible to mess around with these other ideas in a fitting since most fitters only offer 6 irons and no one length options. 
 

Any input or issues I may be overlooking would be greatly appreciated. 

 

I would look at the Wishon EQ-NX1 single length irons.  They are designed for 8 iron lengths, and have a weight port that could be maxed out to be a good weight for 9 iron length.  You might even find a clubfitter in your area who can test you for them.

 

Alternatively, you can sign up for an account with the distributor, Diamond Golf Intl in England, and they will sell you the heads.  Shipping speed and costs are very reasonable.  Be sure to order some 6 and 9 gram weights for the weight ports.  I'd buy one of each per head, that should cover whatever weight you end up needing.  They are easy to bend for lie angle.

 

Based on your carry distances you might get away with this plan, at least down to a 6 iron.  I'd say go for it.

Edited June 14 by ChaosTheory

[Drrussell]

8 hours ago, Brianfarm6767 said:

I have loved the idea of one length irons for years and played a couple of sets as I am always tinkering and looking to improve my equipment as my golf game grows. I currently switched over to a home built set of Maltby KE4 Max irons for the past season but getting the itch to give one length another go. I have a unique setup where I feel my most consistent club is my 9 iron. When I get up to 7 iron and above something makes me less confident over the ball and I usually only carry up to a 7 iron in the bag and then a 5 and 6 hybrid and 5 and 7 wood for my gapping. My carry distance on my 9 iron is 150-155 currently and 7 iron around 175-180. 
 

My current thought is ordering a set of one length irons one inch short to match my 9 iron length since that is what I feel comfortable with. My miss is always trending left and on a lie board I tend to strike slightly heel side so I don’t think the flatter lie would be a bad thing and could always be adjusted if needed as the one inch shorter would only make them play  one degree flatter than standard. 
 

Another idea was with my wedges taking the 54 degree wedge and ordering one bent 2 degrees strong and one 2 degrees weak and get my normal 52-56-60 degree gapping when paired up with a normal length lob wedge for bunker and flop shots. 
 

I am planning on getting a fitting done soon to play around with shaft weights and to get my lie confirmed to what I am seeing at home. But not very possible to mess around with these other ideas in a fitting since most fitters only offer 6 irons and no one length options. 
 

Any input or issues I may be overlooking would be greatly appreciated. 

Shawn Clement plays 9-LW as single length because he likes his scoring irons to all be the same. He does VL above 9i. 

 

I believe that Steve Johnston (Eureka golf) plays 4-6i as single length. 

 

Different strokes.

 

After going through all of the experiments I have gone through in the past couple years, I am a big fan of adjusting golf equipment for your swing dynamics. To me, that’s the only thing that makes sense. I have finally gotten my equipment to the point where I am no longer thinking about anything other than where I want the ball to start and where I want it to end along with the flight plan to get there. 

 

The most recent post in the Edel SMS Pro conversion thread, I explained how and why opted to change loft to fit my preferred swing dynamics. Lofts weren’t arbitrary. Changing lofts is no different than changing shaft flex, grip size, or lie angle. It’s just another variable to adjust clubs so that you are getting the right launch conditions for your swing.

 

Sub 70 has a set of single length irons now. I am really tempted to order a set from them for my backup set. I was thinking about doing exactly what you suggested since they only go to gap wedge. Making one GW strong, one GW weak, that way I would only need to add a LW at 58 degrees. Sub70 may be worth using for your set.

 

Edel or PXG both have irons with weights in the back so that gives you so much flexibility that you can make just about any tweaks you want without using tip weights, led tape, or tungsten powder. In my current setup, I have the same swing weight from 4-PW and a slightly heavier swing weight from GW-LW. In my testing, I just got the clubs to feel the way I wanted them to feel and swing weight was a byproduct…wasn’t building for that intent.

 

The advantage of the Edel irons is that using their weight system is a way you could help neutralize your flight. However, I would recommend you do a dynamic lie test to see how you are coming into impact. Lie boards are terrible for information. With a dynamic lie test, you can do it quickly when you are playing golf. You draw a black line on your ball, placed perpendicular to the ground and lined up with where you want to hit the ball. The black marker on the ball will transfer to your club. If it’s not 90 degrees from the bottom of the club then your lie angle is wrong. 

 

Interesting fact, with my old Cobra clubs. I did the test with my 7i and figured, “all good”. Then I tested the other clubs. That’s when I realized that Cobra uses different lie angles throughout the set. I had to adjust all of my irons to use the same lie angle. 

 

Last thing I would suggest for you on your idea for wedges. I would worry less about the loft and more about the launch angle and spin rate. You need clubs to hit certain numbers in order to properly keep gapping and stopping power correct. In general for single length clubs, the problem I have found with Cobra is that their gapping is too close…especially on the top end of the set. But you will want to play with lofts to get the right launch conditions. I have found 60, 55, 50 are really the best lofts for me (5 degree gaps). That’s not to say it’s right for you, but to point out, you really should test the launch angle and spin rate then adjust to make it right. 

[Drrussell]

One more thing that might be worth noting, I have found that most fitters really don’t understand the math for single length. Simply put, they know what they do every day and they know what works…they just don’t necessarily understand why it works. 

 

To that end, I would also recommend regardless of what you decide with irons, if you are playing single length, be sure to test the Paderson Kinetixx One shaft or the LA Golf Bryson shaft. Both are setup for long iron, mid iron, scoring iron flex profiles that assist getting the launch conditions right. I have found that’s particularly important in the long irons and scoring irons to make launch angles and trajectories match. 

[Brianfarm6767]

5 hours ago, Milfordlefty said:

What length do you play single length? (7i, 8i?). Based on your 9i & 7i distances, you appear to have enough swing speed for 6 & 5i single length. Slower swing speed golfers usually start seeing issues below the 7i as they are not fast enough to elevate a long iron played at 7i or 8i length. Here is a thought, play 7i up at the 9i length and then play the 5 & 6i at 6i length. The issue you may have is the feel of a heavier club in the 5 & 6i single length club head, as single length club heads are usually all weighted like a std 7i or 8i head. You could experiment with the KE4 Max heads as they have a removable weight. Using the 8i as base weight, you would need to lighten the 9i and add to the 7i to match the 8i. You would need to add weight to the 5i head to match the std weight of the 6i. Pull the 7 & 8i shafts to tip trim and butt cut to match the 9i and same for the 5i to match the 6i. If it doesn't work out, it just means you need to replace 3 shafts. Good luck in your experiment.

Currently I am playing variable length irons. I will post the lofts below as well as some of my recent shot data from Mevo+. I think the 7 iron and above feeling uncomfortable for me just came from working through my swing while I was improving. My first set when I got serious about getting better was a stock single length cobra irons and then I switched over to the forged tec single length and just didn't have the swing at the time to play them. Bought them for look rather than how I could use them. I just never felt I could launch them high enough, but at the time I was hacking at the ball with a in to out path and who knows where it was going to go. I settled at my 9 iron as I worked through my swing and now that has become my go to club for 25,000 plus shots in my garage practicing over the past couple of years. For me mentally I know the G425 7 hybrid I have goes the same distance as my 7 iron and feel that I can hit it poorly and still get a decent outcome vs when I poorly hit my 7 or 6 iron. It may have also been more about loft rather than length in the beginning as I carry 3 or 4 hybrids and 2 of 3 woods in the bag depending on the course and am very comfortable with them. Looking down at a jacked 6 iron vs my 9 iron may have just made me feel more comfortable and now after the years of practice I am where I am and still don't like them LOL. 

 

As far as forgiveness goes is there something out there that compares well to the cobra sets? My main goal is to just find the clubs and setup that make the game as simple as possible, knowing I am not the best ball striker and never will be anytime soon. 

 

 

●9 Iron KE4 Max 9 Iron
	Shot	Video	Ball (mph)	Club (mph)	Smash	Carry (yds)	Total (yds)	Roll (yds)	Swing H (°)	Spin (rpm)	Height (ft)	Time (s)	AOA (°)	Spin Loft (°)	Swing V (°)	Spin Axis (°)	Lateral (yds)	Shot Type	FTP (°)	FTT (°)	Dynamic Loft (°)	Club Path (°)	Launch H (°)	Launch V (°)	Low Point (ftin)	DescentV (°)
REMOVE	1		115	86.4	1.33	152.9	156.4	3.5	0.1 L	7247	108.2	6.4	-6	39.7	57.7	1.8 L	6.3 R	Straight	1.2 L	2.5 R	33.7	3.7 R	2.9 R	21.4	5.7″	51.1
REMOVE	2		115.7	88.1	1.31	156.6	160.9	4.3	0.5 L	6816	103	6.3	-4.8	35.9	58.2	9.3 L	11.4 L	Draw	5.8 L	3.3 L	30.6	2.5 R	1.6 L	20.3	4.8″	49.8
REMOVE	3		116.6	88.1	1.32	158.7	163.3	4.5	0.1 R	6674	104.6	6.4	-5.5	36.9	58	8.5 L	7.2 L	Draw	5.5 L	1.9 L	31.1	3.6 R	0.3 L	20.2	5.2″	49.8
REMOVE	4		113.8	87.7	1.3	155	160.2	5.2	2 R	6469	99.8	6.2	-3.6	34.7	59.8	13.4 L	14.1 L	Draw	8.1 L	4 L	30.3	4.1 R	1.7 L	20.6	3.6″	49.2
REMOVE	5		114.1	86.8	1.31	152.4	156	3.7	0.2 R	7230	100	6.2	-5.5	36.5	57.9	6 L	1.7 L	Draw	3.8 L	0.1 L	30.8	3.7 R	1 R	20.1	5.3″	49.7
REMOVE	6		116.5	89.1	1.31	154.9	158.3	3.4	0.7 R	7338	111	6.5	-5.6	39.2	57.9	5.8 L	0.6 L	Draw	4 L	0.2 R	33.4	4.2 R	1.4 R	21.4	5.4″	51.5
REMOVE	7		110	87.9	1.25	146.7	151.6	4.8	0.8 L	7049	74.5	5.6	-7	32	56.6	6.6 L	1.1 L	Draw	3.7 L	0.2 R	24.8	3.9 R	1.2 R	16.2	6.7″	44.2
REMOVE	8		112.1	88	1.27	147.9	151.1	3.3	0.3 L	7388	103.1	6.2	-4.1	36.5	58.7	3.3 L	0.5 L	Draw	2.1 L	0.1 R	32.3	2.2 R	0.7 R	21.5	4.1″	50.7
REMOVE	9		116	87	1.33	157.1	161.4	4.3	2.9 R	6742	106.6	6.4	-4.4	35.8	58.7	5.6 L	4.4 R	Draw	3.5 L	2.1 R	31.2	5.6 R	3.1 R	20.8	4.4″	50.3
REMOVE	10		116.9	87.6	1.33	158.8	163.6	4.8	1.5 R	6512	112.8	6.5	-4.3	38.3	57.1	10.2 L	9 L	Draw	6.8 L	2.5 L	33.4	4.3 R	0.5 L	22	4.1″	51.2
REMOVE	11		109	86.5	1.26	144.2	148	3.8	1.4 R	7326	85.3	5.8	-5.3	34.1	58.5	7.8 L	1.7 L	Draw	4.6 L	0 R	28.5	4.6 R	1.3 R	18.9	5″	47.3
REMOVE	12		113.2	87.2	1.3	147.3	150.1	2.8	0.2 R	7802	109.8	6.4	-5.3	40.4	58.5	1.5 R	11.9 R	Push	1 R	4.5 R	35.1	3.5 R	4.2 R	22.4	5.1″	52
REMOVE	13		113.2	87	1.3	152.1	156.3	4.2	0.8 L	6780	103.8	6.3	-5.1	37.8	58	1.4 L	3.7 R	Straight	0.9 L	1.5 R	32.8	2.4 R	1.8 R	21.4	4.9″	50.2
REMOVE	14		114.6	89.5	1.28	152.1	155.8	3.7	1.5 R	7040	113.8	6.5	-3	36.9	58.5	4.8 L	0.6 L	Draw	3.1 L	0.2 R	33.8	3.3 R	1.1 R	22.9	3″	52
	Avg	-	114	87.6	1.3	152.6	156.6	4	0.6 R	7030	102.6	6.3	-5	36.8	58.1	5.9 L	1.5 L	-	3.7 L	0 L	31.6	3.7 R	1.1 R	20.7	4.8″	49.9
	Dev	-	2.3	0.9	0.03	4.5	4.8	0.7	1.1	368	10.4	0.3	1	2.2	0.7	3.8	6.8	-	2.3	2.2	2.5	0.9	1.6	1.6	0.9″	2

 

 

Edited June 14 by Brianfarm6767

[Brianfarm6767]

4 hours ago, Drrussell said:

Shawn Clement plays 9-LW as single length because he likes his scoring irons to all be the same. He does VL above 9i. 

 

I believe that Steve Johnston (Eureka golf) plays 4-6i as single length. 

 

Different strokes.

 

After going through all of the experiments I have gone through in the past couple years, I am a big fan of adjusting golf equipment for your swing dynamics. To me, that’s the only thing that makes sense. I have finally gotten my equipment to the point where I am no longer thinking about anything other than where I want the ball to start and where I want it to end along with the flight plan to get there. 

 

The most recent post in the Edel SMS Pro conversion thread, I explained how and why opted to change loft to fit my preferred swing dynamics. Lofts weren’t arbitrary. Changing lofts is no different than changing shaft flex, grip size, or lie angle. It’s just another variable to adjust clubs so that you are getting the right launch conditions for your swing.

 

Sub 70 has a set of single length irons now. I am really tempted to order a set from them for my backup set. I was thinking about doing exactly what you suggested since they only go to gap wedge. Making one GW strong, one GW weak, that way I would only need to add a LW at 58 degrees. Sub70 may be worth using for your set.

 

Edel or PXG both have irons with weights in the back so that gives you so much flexibility that you can make just about any tweaks you want without using tip weights, led tape, or tungsten powder. In my current setup, I have the same swing weight from 4-PW and a slightly heavier swing weight from GW-LW. In my testing, I just got the clubs to feel the way I wanted them to feel and swing weight was a byproduct…wasn’t building for that intent.

 

The advantage of the Edel irons is that using their weight system is a way you could help neutralize your flight. However, I would recommend you do a dynamic lie test to see how you are coming into impact. Lie boards are terrible for information. With a dynamic lie test, you can do it quickly when you are playing golf. You draw a black line on your ball, placed perpendicular to the ground and lined up with where you want to hit the ball. The black marker on the ball will transfer to your club. If it’s not 90 degrees from the bottom of the club then your lie angle is wrong. 

 

Interesting fact, with my old Cobra clubs. I did the test with my 7i and figured, “all good”. Then I tested the other clubs. That’s when I realized that Cobra uses different lie angles throughout the set. I had to adjust all of my irons to use the same lie angle. 

 

Last thing I would suggest for you on your idea for wedges. I would worry less about the loft and more about the launch angle and spin rate. You need clubs to hit certain numbers in order to properly keep gapping and stopping power correct. In general for single length clubs, the problem I have found with Cobra is that their gapping is too close…especially on the top end of the set. But you will want to play with lofts to get the right launch conditions. I have found 60, 55, 50 are really the best lofts for me (5 degree gaps). That’s not to say it’s right for you, but to point out, you really should test the launch angle and spin rate then adjust to make it right. 

I went our in the garage and did the lie angle test as you described just to see how my current clubs are. They look to be pretty straight to me. If I go with the plan of a single length set 1/2 or 1 inch short to make them 8 or 9 iron length and my lie angle is fairly good at stock would that 1/2 or 1 degree of flatter cause any issues with toe dragging? 

 

 

 

 

Edited June 14 by Brianfarm6767

[Milfordlefty]

1 hour ago, Brianfarm6767 said:

Currently I am playing variable length irons. I will post the lofts below as well as some of my recent shot data from Mevo+. I think the 7 iron and above feeling uncomfortable for me just came from working through my swing while I was improving. My first set when I got serious about getting better was a stock single length cobra irons and then I switched over to the forged tec single length and just didn't have the swing at the time to play them. Bought them for look rather than how I could use them. I just never felt I could launch them high enough, but at the time I was hacking at the ball with a in to out path and who knows where it was going to go. I settled at my 9 iron as I worked through my swing and now that has become my go to club for 25,000 plus shots in my garage practicing over the past couple of years. For me mentally I know the G425 7 hybrid I have goes the same distance as my 7 iron and feel that I can hit it poorly and still get a decent outcome vs when I poorly hit my 7 or 6 iron. It may have also been more about loft rather than length in the beginning as I carry 3 or 4 hybrids and 2 of 3 woods in the bag depending on the course and am very comfortable with them. Looking down at a jacked 6 iron vs my 9 iron may have just made me feel more comfortable and now after the years of practice I am where I am and still don't like them LOL. 

 

As far as forgiveness goes is there something out there that compares well to the cobra sets? My main goal is to just find the clubs and setup that make the game as simple as possible, knowing I am not the best ball striker and never will be anytime soon. 

 

 

●9 Iron KE4 Max 9 Iron
	Shot	Video	Ball (mph)	Club (mph)	Smash	Carry (yds)	Total (yds)	Roll (yds)	Swing H (°)	Spin (rpm)	Height (ft)	Time (s)	AOA (°)	Spin Loft (°)	Swing V (°)	Spin Axis (°)	Lateral (yds)	Shot Type	FTP (°)	FTT (°)	Dynamic Loft (°)	Club Path (°)	Launch H (°)	Launch V (°)	Low Point (ftin)	DescentV (°)
REMOVE	1		115	86.4	1.33	152.9	156.4	3.5	0.1 L	7247	108.2	6.4	-6	39.7	57.7	1.8 L	6.3 R	Straight	1.2 L	2.5 R	33.7	3.7 R	2.9 R	21.4	5.7″	51.1
REMOVE	2		115.7	88.1	1.31	156.6	160.9	4.3	0.5 L	6816	103	6.3	-4.8	35.9	58.2	9.3 L	11.4 L	Draw	5.8 L	3.3 L	30.6	2.5 R	1.6 L	20.3	4.8″	49.8
REMOVE	3		116.6	88.1	1.32	158.7	163.3	4.5	0.1 R	6674	104.6	6.4	-5.5	36.9	58	8.5 L	7.2 L	Draw	5.5 L	1.9 L	31.1	3.6 R	0.3 L	20.2	5.2″	49.8
REMOVE	4		113.8	87.7	1.3	155	160.2	5.2	2 R	6469	99.8	6.2	-3.6	34.7	59.8	13.4 L	14.1 L	Draw	8.1 L	4 L	30.3	4.1 R	1.7 L	20.6	3.6″	49.2
REMOVE	5		114.1	86.8	1.31	152.4	156	3.7	0.2 R	7230	100	6.2	-5.5	36.5	57.9	6 L	1.7 L	Draw	3.8 L	0.1 L	30.8	3.7 R	1 R	20.1	5.3″	49.7
REMOVE	6		116.5	89.1	1.31	154.9	158.3	3.4	0.7 R	7338	111	6.5	-5.6	39.2	57.9	5.8 L	0.6 L	Draw	4 L	0.2 R	33.4	4.2 R	1.4 R	21.4	5.4″	51.5
REMOVE	7		110	87.9	1.25	146.7	151.6	4.8	0.8 L	7049	74.5	5.6	-7	32	56.6	6.6 L	1.1 L	Draw	3.7 L	0.2 R	24.8	3.9 R	1.2 R	16.2	6.7″	44.2
REMOVE	8		112.1	88	1.27	147.9	151.1	3.3	0.3 L	7388	103.1	6.2	-4.1	36.5	58.7	3.3 L	0.5 L	Draw	2.1 L	0.1 R	32.3	2.2 R	0.7 R	21.5	4.1″	50.7
REMOVE	9		116	87	1.33	157.1	161.4	4.3	2.9 R	6742	106.6	6.4	-4.4	35.8	58.7	5.6 L	4.4 R	Draw	3.5 L	2.1 R	31.2	5.6 R	3.1 R	20.8	4.4″	50.3
REMOVE	10		116.9	87.6	1.33	158.8	163.6	4.8	1.5 R	6512	112.8	6.5	-4.3	38.3	57.1	10.2 L	9 L	Draw	6.8 L	2.5 L	33.4	4.3 R	0.5 L	22	4.1″	51.2
REMOVE	11		109	86.5	1.26	144.2	148	3.8	1.4 R	7326	85.3	5.8	-5.3	34.1	58.5	7.8 L	1.7 L	Draw	4.6 L	0 R	28.5	4.6 R	1.3 R	18.9	5″	47.3
REMOVE	12		113.2	87.2	1.3	147.3	150.1	2.8	0.2 R	7802	109.8	6.4	-5.3	40.4	58.5	1.5 R	11.9 R	Push	1 R	4.5 R	35.1	3.5 R	4.2 R	22.4	5.1″	52
REMOVE	13		113.2	87	1.3	152.1	156.3	4.2	0.8 L	6780	103.8	6.3	-5.1	37.8	58	1.4 L	3.7 R	Straight	0.9 L	1.5 R	32.8	2.4 R	1.8 R	21.4	4.9″	50.2
REMOVE	14		114.6	89.5	1.28	152.1	155.8	3.7	1.5 R	7040	113.8	6.5	-3	36.9	58.5	4.8 L	0.6 L	Draw	3.1 L	0.2 R	33.8	3.3 R	1.1 R	22.9	3″	52
	Avg	-	114	87.6	1.3	152.6	156.6	4	0.6 R	7030	102.6	6.3	-5	36.8	58.1	5.9 L	1.5 L	-	3.7 L	0 L	31.6	3.7 R	1.1 R	20.7	4.8″	49.9
	Dev	-	2.3	0.9	0.03	4.5	4.8	0.7	1.1	368	10.4	0.3	1	2.2	0.7	3.8	6.8	-	2.3	2.2	2.5	0.9	1.6	1.6	0.9″	2

 

 

While our swing speeds don;t match, we have in common our dislike of looking at an iron below 7i and use of hybrids in place of long irons. My current irons (bought used) 6-pw and relatively quickly the 6i was replace by a 6h. The longer shaft and COG back and low compared to an iron allows me to elevate the shot. Hybrids are designed to fly higher than irons. Maybe stick with what you have and keep working for a consistent swing. I flirted with SL, but only a year as I just don't have enough swing speed.

[Drrussell]

2 hours ago, Brianfarm6767 said:

I went our in the garage and did the lie angle test as you described just to see how my current clubs are. They look to be pretty straight to me. If I go with the plan of a single length set 1/2 or 1 inch short to make them 8 or 9 iron length and my lie angle is fairly good at stock would that 1/2 or 1 degree of flatter cause any issues with toe dragging? 

 

 

 

 

The data above is all 9i, correct? What kind of ball are you using? Need that information before reading too much into it.

 

You should conduct the lie angle test with every club. If you change clubs you need to do the test with those clubs because the shaft and the way it responds to your swing may be different. It’s such an easy thing to check and adjust.

For sure if the club is flat, you will be getting toe turf interaction and centered shots will tend to go right. If it’s too upright, misses will tend to go left (for RH players).

 

[Brianfarm6767]

6 hours ago, Drrussell said:

The data above is all 9i, correct? What kind of ball are you using? Need that information before reading too much into it.

 

You should conduct the lie angle test with every club. If you change clubs you need to do the test with those clubs because the shaft and the way it responds to your swing may be different. It’s such an easy thing to check and adjust.

For sure if the club is flat, you will be getting toe turf interaction and centered shots will tend to go right. If it’s too upright, misses will tend to go left (for RH players).

 

Yes all of those shots are with my 9I. All of my irons and wedges are setup to standard length and lie with Dynamic Gold 105 X Stiff. 

 

I am using a Pro V1 RCT Ball. Have all the data set to the Mevo+ standard elevation and temp settings which I think is sea level at 77 degrees. 

 

I also took a few swings with my 6 iron earlier just to see what the data would look like. And while I am decently happy with the swings I just feel like it is too low spin and not launching very well for landing it on a green if I needed to from that distance. 

 

 

●6 Iron KE4 Max 6 Iron
	Shot	Video	Ball (mph)	Club (mph)	Smash	Carry (yds)	Total (yds)	Roll (yds)	Swing H (°)	Spin (rpm)	Height (ft)	Time (s)	AOA (°)	Spin Loft (°)	Swing V (°)	Spin Axis (°)	Lateral (yds)	Shot Type	FTP (°)	FTT (°)	Dynamic Loft (°)	Club Path (°)	Launch H (°)	Launch V (°)	Low Point (ftin)	DescentV (°)
REMOVE	1		125.3	90	1.39	175.7	204.8	29.2	0.1 R	4034	47.5	5	-5.5	19.5	55.2	20.1 L	17 L	Draw	6.7 L	2.7 L	12.8	4 R	1.5 L	9.5	5.6″	29.9
REMOVE	2		126.5	90.8	1.39	186.8	198.6	11.8	1.8 R	4594	85.8	6.2	-3.1	22.6	56	3.4 L	6.7 R	Straight	1.3 L	2.6 R	19.4	3.9 R	2.9 R	14.8	3.3″	42.7
REMOVE	3		128	92	1.39	187.3	199	11.7	0.1 R	4836	79.9	6.1	-5.6	24.1	56.8	4.3 L	4.3 R	Draw	1.8 L	2 R	18.4	3.8 R	2.4 R	13.2	5.5″	41.4
	Avg	-	126.6	90.9	1.39	183.3	200.8	17.6	0.7 R	4488	71.1	5.7	-4.7	22	56	9.3 L	2 L	-	3.3 L	0.6 R	16.9	3.9 R	1.2 R	12.5	4.8″	38
	Dev	-	1.1	0.8	0	5.3	2.8	8.2	0.8	336	16.9	0.5	1.1	1.9	0.7	7.6	10.6	-	2.4	2.4	2.9	0.1	2	2.2	1.1″	5.8

Edited June 15 by Brianfarm6767

[Drrussell]

10 hours ago, Brianfarm6767 said:

Yes all of those shots are with my 9I. All of my irons and wedges are setup to standard length and lie with Dynamic Gold 105 X Stiff. 

 

I am using a Pro V1 RCT Ball. Have all the data set to the Mevo+ standard elevation and temp settings which I think is sea level at 77 degrees. 

 

I also took a few swings with my 6 iron earlier just to see what the data would look like. And while I am decently happy with the swings I just feel like it is too low spin and not launching very well for landing it on a green if I needed to from that distance. 

 

 

●6 Iron KE4 Max 6 Iron
	Shot	Video	Ball (mph)	Club (mph)	Smash	Carry (yds)	Total (yds)	Roll (yds)	Swing H (°)	Spin (rpm)	Height (ft)	Time (s)	AOA (°)	Spin Loft (°)	Swing V (°)	Spin Axis (°)	Lateral (yds)	Shot Type	FTP (°)	FTT (°)	Dynamic Loft (°)	Club Path (°)	Launch H (°)	Launch V (°)	Low Point (ftin)	DescentV (°)
REMOVE	1		125.3	90	1.39	175.7	204.8	29.2	0.1 R	4034	47.5	5	-5.5	19.5	55.2	20.1 L	17 L	Draw	6.7 L	2.7 L	12.8	4 R	1.5 L	9.5	5.6″	29.9
REMOVE	2		126.5	90.8	1.39	186.8	198.6	11.8	1.8 R	4594	85.8	6.2	-3.1	22.6	56	3.4 L	6.7 R	Straight	1.3 L	2.6 R	19.4	3.9 R	2.9 R	14.8	3.3″	42.7
REMOVE	3		128	92	1.39	187.3	199	11.7	0.1 R	4836	79.9	6.1	-5.6	24.1	56.8	4.3 L	4.3 R	Draw	1.8 L	2 R	18.4	3.8 R	2.4 R	13.2	5.5″	41.4
	Avg	-	126.6	90.9	1.39	183.3	200.8	17.6	0.7 R	4488	71.1	5.7	-4.7	22	56	9.3 L	2 L	-	3.3 L	0.6 R	16.9	3.9 R	1.2 R	12.5	4.8″	38
	Dev	-	1.1	0.8	0	5.3	2.8	8.2	0.8	336	16.9	0.5	1.1	1.9	0.7	7.6	10.6	-	2.4	2.4	2.9	0.1	2	2.2	1.1″	5.8

This is exactly why I was asking. Your 9i was spinning too low also. That is a function of your impact alignments, shaft release, and loft. The 9i should be spinning between 8k-9k and your 6i should be spinning at 5k-6k. That will see you launching the ball in the proper window with the proper spin to hold greens. 
 

I go through a process of going to each club, hit a few shots, adjust loft and then hit a few more shots until it’s dialed in. 
 

As an example, I used to play a really strong grip that setup reduced loft dynamically and I had to add loft. That setup, however, also caused the sniper hook sometimes…which made me want to break s***. I ended up on the other end of the spectrum…a really weak grip. That setup, dynamically, required me to lower lofts. It’s really just a question of matching up your swing dynamics with the club setup, lie angle, grip size, shaft flex, and loft. So that you can play the game the way you want to play the game hitting the right shot shape and right window for you.

 

With your setup, I would start on the low end by adding 2 degrees of loft. Then just work the math. When you center a shot and you felt like you had an effortless release to target, what are the numbers? Rinse and repeat for every club until things are dialed in.

 

I discovered that in my swing, I could take weaker lofts than standard and hit it just as far. It just required that I play a stronger grip or bow the hell out of my lead wrist (extend the hell out of my trail wrist). There’s nothing wrong with playing this way. I suspect that if I was a habitual slicer, that would have been all I needed. However, I have always worked the ball from right to left…so the strong grip or bowing the wrist just made my misses worse. The loft is just another variable on a club and it needs to be matched up with your swing dynamics. 

 

You are hitting down 3-5 degrees down. Your path is in-to out (less than 5 degrees). Your spin is too low and as a byproduct your descent is too low. 

 

The other thing here, which I didn’t touch on, but is equally important is the shaft. Because you are playing an XS shaft, that will tend to bring spin and launch angle down. Before adjusting lofts, I would like to see your numbers with a stiff shaft instead of XS. But really it’s just up to what feels good for you. It’s complicated because ultimately we are taking all of these variables from your equipment and trying to make the tweaks so that it works for you. I would bet that simply going to a stiff shaft would bring your launch, spin into the right window and you would need fewer changes. But if you really like the feel of your shafts, then I would start by adjusting loft. 

 

BTW - This is the s*** that caused me to go so deep down this rabbit hole and ended up buying the equipment to make the changes to my clubs at home. I didn’t like the idea of paying $20 per club to modify clubs when I didn’t really know what I needed. 

 

It’s funny, right. You will hear a bunch of hacks talking about lofts on clubs and in their small minds there’s something sacred about loft numbers…but they see no problem changing shaft flex, grip size, lie angle…they don’t realize that each of those changes is just as important as loft. The goal is to create a scenario where your swing can be repeatable and hit the windows you want to hit. 

 

Edited June 15 by Drrussell

[bekgolf]

I'm going to mirror some of what chaos wrote.  The Wishon EQ1-NX one length heads come with a 63* lie angle, weigh 275g, and have a weight port that will fit up a 12g tungsten weight.  You could build or have them built to 9 iron length and end up with the total weight and sw you desire.  The heads have progressive center of gravity locations to help with ball flight.  It fits what you are looking for.

 

Edited June 15 by bekgolf
spelling

[Brianfarm6767]

.

Edited June 16 by Brianfarm6767

[Brianfarm6767]

11 hours ago, Drrussell said:

This is exactly why I was asking. Your 9i was spinning too low also. That is a function of your impact alignments, shaft release, and loft. The 9i should be spinning between 8k-9k and your 6i should be spinning at 5k-6k. That will see you launching the ball in the proper window with the proper spin to hold greens. 
 

I go through a process of going to each club, hit a few shots, adjust loft and then hit a few more shots until it’s dialed in. 
 

As an example, I used to play a really strong grip that setup reduced loft dynamically and I had to add loft. That setup, however, also caused the sniper hook sometimes…which made me want to break s***. I ended up on the other end of the spectrum…a really weak grip. That setup, dynamically, required me to lower lofts. It’s really just a question of matching up your swing dynamics with the club setup, lie angle, grip size, shaft flex, and loft. So that you can play the game the way you want to play the game hitting the right shot shape and right window for you.

 

With your setup, I would start on the low end by adding 2 degrees of loft. Then just work the math. When you center a shot and you felt like you had an effortless release to target, what are the numbers? Rinse and repeat for every club until things are dialed in.

 

I discovered that in my swing, I could take weaker lofts than standard and hit it just as far. It just required that I play a stronger grip or bow the hell out of my lead wrist (extend the hell out of my trail wrist). There’s nothing wrong with playing this way. I suspect that if I was a habitual slicer, that would have been all I needed. However, I have always worked the ball from right to left…so the strong grip or bowing the wrist just made my misses worse. The loft is just another variable on a club and it needs to be matched up with your swing dynamics. 

 

You are hitting down 3-5 degrees down. Your path is in-to out (less than 5 degrees). Your spin is too low and as a byproduct your descent is too low. 

 

The other thing here, which I didn’t touch on, but is equally important is the shaft. Because you are playing an XS shaft, that will tend to bring spin and launch angle down. Before adjusting lofts, I would like to see your numbers with a stiff shaft instead of XS. But really it’s just up to what feels good for you. It’s complicated because ultimately we are taking all of these variables from your equipment and trying to make the tweaks so that it works for you. I would bet that simply going to a stiff shaft would bring your launch, spin into the right window and you would need fewer changes. But if you really like the feel of your shafts, then I would start by adjusting loft. 

 

BTW - This is the s*** that caused me to go so deep down this rabbit hole and ended up buying the equipment to make the changes to my clubs at home. I didn’t like the idea of paying $20 per club to modify clubs when I didn’t really know what I needed. 

 

It’s funny, right. You will hear a bunch of hacks talking about lofts on clubs and in their small minds there’s something sacred about loft numbers…but they see no problem changing shaft flex, grip size, lie angle…they don’t realize that each of those changes is just as important as loft. The goal is to create a scenario where your swing can be repeatable and hit the windows you want to hit. 

 

Thanks for all the great info. 
 

I agree with everything you said. I definitely have a strong grip as I feel it helps me swing down through the ball better. When I have played around with a weaker grip I just feel like I lift out of the shot and my contact goes all over the place. I lack a lot of flexibility and I kind of feel this may be a work around to help me get through the shot. I also use the strong grip as kind of a limiting factor as I almost feel as if I am trying to open the face through impact and the grip limits that amount and keeps it close to square if that makes sense. I used to play stiff shafts but studied some info put out by Rocco Mediate a year or so ago about how he feels swinging the stiffest shafts possible help eliminate dispersion. I made the switch and like the feel but I assume you are 100% correct about it making my shots launch lower than they would if I went with a lower flex. Up until my most recent set I built myself I just used what came with the club heads and really only knew the difference between flex, over the past couple of years is when I started really playing around with weight and launch characteristics. I feel like I have been able to use that knowledge to dial in my woods and hybrids to the shot I want to play, but now just trying to dial in the irons.
 

I have picked up most all the tools to work on clubs except for a loft and lie machine. Is the budget version from golf works my best bet if I wanted to add that to my workshop? Seems like it might be a good idea to have on hand if I want to make sure I get everything dialed in especially since I live over and hour from any golf shop that would be able to make any of those adjustments for me. 
 

Is there any x stiff shafts out there they might have a different kick point that would help me launch higher? I know the shafts I have now are on the lighter side especially for x flex, but what would I expect to see in my ball flight if I went up in the 120 range? I was looking at the TT Elevate series thought that might be an option to keep the same flex and increase launch and spin. 
 

Thanks again for all the great information

[Drrussell]

6 minutes ago, Brianfarm6767 said:

Thanks for all the great info. 
 

I agree with everything you said. I definitely have a strong grip as I feel it helps me swing down through the ball better. When I have played around with a weaker grip I just feel like I lift out of the shot and my contact goes all over the place. I lack a lot of flexibility and I kind of feel this may be a work around to help me get through the shot. I also use the strong grip as kind of a limiting factor as I almost feel as if I am trying to open the face through impact and the grip limits that amount and keeps it close to square if that makes sense. I used to play stiff shafts but studied some info put out by Rocco Mediate a year or so ago about how he feels swinging the stiffest shafts possible help eliminate dispersion. I made the switch and like the feel but I assume you are 100% correct about it making my shots launch lower than they would if I went with a lower flex. Up until my most recent set I built myself I just used what came with the club heads and really only knew the difference between flex, over the past couple of years is when I started really playing around with weight and launch characteristics. I feel like I have been able to use that knowledge to dial in my woods and hybrids to the shot I want to play, but now just trying to dial in the irons.
 

I have picked up most all the tools to work on clubs except for a loft and lie machine. Is the budget version from golf works my best bet if I wanted to add that to my workshop? Seems like it might be a good idea to have on hand if I want to make sure I get everything dialed in especially since I live over and hour from any golf shop that would be able to make any of those adjustments for me. 
 

Is there any x stiff shafts out there they might have a different kick point that would help me launch higher? I know the shafts I have now are on the lighter side especially for x flex, but what would I expect to see in my ball flight if I went up in the 120 range? I was looking at the TT Elevate series thought that might be an option to keep the same flex and increase launch and spin. 
 

Thanks again for all the great information

You are on the right path for sure. For single length clubs, I would go with either Paderson Kinetixx One LIP for 4-5i, MIP for 6-8i, and SIP for 9-LW. They have different weight, but their flex profiles help matchup spin and trajectory nicely. LA Golf Bryson shafts are probably similar (that’s going to be my next test). Unfortunately, outside of that I don’t have enough data to tell you about other shafts. I did see better launch conditions with Modus 120 XS compared to 130 KBS Tour XS. I think the shafts really come down to how you load and unload the clubs. Hopefully during a proper fitting they will figure that out.
 

i 100% agreed with the idea of heaviest and stiffest possible to improve dispersion. I gamed 130g extra stiff shafts until this year. That was exactly my thought. But truth is, I also had the horsepower to make it work and sad to say my horsepower needed a little octane boost. 
 

Going heavy and stiff comes at the expense of generating proper launch and spin if you don’t have the speed necessary to make the shaft load and unload properly. I don’t see any problem with going with heavier and stiffer shafts and then making the switch to hybrid, sooner. Say 3-4 hybrids with 5i being longest iron.  Or even 4-5 hybrid with 6 being longest iron. It’s really whatever works best for your swing.
 

Personally, I prefer hitting irons over hybrids. But again different strokes. Here are my current distances so far this year (actual distances on course. Starting at GW I play at 140y and I actually play 10y gaps up to 4i. I can always turn a club down and hit it further, or do a 9 o’clock or 10 o’clock swing to take off some distance. I also know that in rare cases, I can choke up 1 inch to take off 5-7y.

 

My 4i actually runs into the hybrid distances when courses dry out. As courses get firm it will more typically be a 230 club…but a different flight plan than the hybrid.  Hybrid I can carry 230y if needed.
 

I am thinking about getting a 4h to sub for the 4i when it’s wet conditions. When it’s dry or windy, 4i. I also would like to find a way to bring in the 3w or 5w to close the gap between hybrid to 2w (mini driver). Truth is I don’t have to hit many 4i-5i-or hybrids. So it doesn’t matter too much. Maybe it matters for 1-2 shots per round.
 

[Drrussell]

@Brianfarm6767 FWIW, when I am helping other golfers I 100% prefer the stronger grip. I think there are a million reasons why it’s better dynamically speaking. I have decided to go a different way personally, but I wouldn’t recommend what I do to anyone. My swing is built around hitting a draw and never over drawing the ball. I accept that my miss is a block right…and missing left makes me want to snap clubs. I am too old now to “fix it”. My setup is very similar to Bryson’s and it has been that way from the first time I picked up a club…before I knew who Bryson was. 

[Andygolderson]

I would agree on many things said so far and like to add a few more notes.

 

Particularly on clubfitters not understanding One Length concept. Originally buying my first set in 2019, the fitter just said, yea, great numbers, these are good for you. He wasn't wrong, but I had just started golf and outgrew them quickly as I got better.

 

Another fitter I used to make me a new set of shafts for those same heads 2 years later understood some basics and basically just gave me what I (thought I) wanted. His philosophy is when someone wants something, there's no point trying to change their mind, they will eventually come back and admit they were wrong. I gave him a chance for fitting, but was not really good. He had a trackman, but was not really doing a good job of interpreting the data and his process was very limited to what he had available.

 

Later, my friend helped me build a difficult concept set. Having recently done his fitting course and training, he had a lot of information to share. He also referred his mentor, a very expreienced fitter, to apply the combination of information and data to build the set.

 

A few things I learned and combined into my own self club building:

 

"Don't use your favouite club length".

I love my PW from my Cobra RF Rev 33 set and I love my 6 iron from 2 different sets. Both are different shafts, weights and built differently. You should aim to replicate the feel of it, not the length of it.

I tried 6i One lengths, they were a bit too long and didn't produce more speed, as i thought a longer iron would.

7i standard works well for most people.

I went to 8i, as like yourself, I was feeling best connection with a lower club, in my case, the PW, but PW length would be too short for "your longer irons".

 

"Go as heavy as you can" - Clubfitter #2 told this to me and I have been following it. It's meant to help with dispersion. He told me that if you can repeatably swing the heavier shaft for a reasonable amount of time without getting tired, then you can game those shafts. I liked this advice.

 

"Be careful with head weight matching".

I learned this by myself. Trying to make a regular set of irons work stuffing weight into the hosel doesn't feel good, compared to clubs that have weight ports or cavities for sticking some weight in. The longer you go in long irons, the more dificult it becomes, as you run out of real estate on the backof the head to support the weight you need. Starting at 9i will help you if you plan to make long irons. Depends whether you use PW from a set, or from a wedge. You might decide to build your "One Length Wedge Set" , deviating slightly from your One Length Iron Set.

 

"Build up from experimentation"

Start with a single shaft that you're aiming at and swap it out between your different heads. Buy a new one, uncut, so you know what you're getting. I bought 2 shafts from Ebay that were "the same", which were not the same. one was a 4i, the other a 7 and they had been cut and tipped differently. 

Try a 7i or Pw first, then work to a 5i (Pw + 7i + 5i). This quickly covers your whole set in only 3 clubs, using a single shaft. Unless you plan the alternate approach of splitting what you spec in your high vs low clubs, but this approach will also help you determine if you need that. Remember to add tape or putty on your other heads to match your lowest club. (If you're starting at 9i it will be easier, as this is your baseline head weight).

 

"Fit yourself".

You can of course use a fitter and launch monitor etc, but focus on your data windows, as opposed to different equipment modifications to achieve it. You will become limited to loft as your sole modification. As your swing speed seems to be quite high, it should be less of an issue for you. If you already know your spin or launch is too high or low in certain clubs, use that information to make your first judgement decision on heads to aim for, or shafts to use. (although i recently learned the shaft choice doesn't definitively help increase or decrease your loft - different rabbit hole)