Ball in Bunker Touching Tree Root

[PJE]

Hello Rules Gurus, 
My ball landed in a poorly maintained bunker with the back of the ball resting against a thin tree root poking straight up out of the sand.

The root was about the diameter of a really thick pencil and about 9” high. There was no way to strike the ball without hitting the root. 
I’m wondering would there have been free relief because of the root even though the ball was in a hazard? 
 

[iacas]

1 hour ago, PJE said:

Hello Rules Gurus, 
My ball landed in a poorly maintained bunker with the back of the ball resting against a thin tree root poking straight up out of the sand.

The root was about the diameter of a really thick pencil and about 9” high. There was no way to strike the ball without hitting the root. 
I’m wondering would there have been free relief because of the root even though the ball was in a hazard? 

 

You don't (typically) get relief from tree roots anywhere on the golf course.

 

The parenthetical is because of the MLR below, but that's in the general area (not a bunker) only:

Model Local Rule F-9

“If a player’s ball lies in the general area  and there is interference from exposed tree roots that are [specify area of the course, such as in a part of the general area cut to fairway height or less or in the rough within a certain number of club-lengths from the edge of the area cut to fairway height or less], the tree roots are treated as ground under repair. The player may take free relief under Rule 16.1b.

[But relief is not allowed if the tree roots only interfere with the player’s stance.]

Edited June 15 by iacas
added MLR

[Shilgy]

4 hours ago, PJE said:

Hello Rules Gurus, 
My ball landed in a poorly maintained bunker with the back of the ball resting against a thin tree root poking straight up out of the sand.

The root was about the diameter of a really thick pencil and about 9” high. There was no way to strike the ball without hitting the root. 
I’m wondering would there have been free relief because of the root even though the ball was in a hazard? 
 

Well, you wouldn’t get free relief from the root if you were out of the bunker so can’t imagine why you would from in a bunker.

[PJE]

6 hours ago, iacas said:

 

You don't (typically) get relief from tree roots anywhere on the golf course.

 

The parenthetical is because of the MLR below, but that's in the general area (not a bunker) only:

 

Model Local Rule F-9

“If a player’s ball lies in the general area  and there is interference from exposed tree roots that are [specify area of the course, such as in a part of the general area cut to fairway height or less or in the rough within a certain number of club-lengths from the edge of the area cut to fairway height or less], the tree roots are treated as ground under repair. The player may take free relief under Rule 16.1b.

[But relief is not allowed if the tree roots only interfere with the player’s stance.]

Thanks. I thought there was something about roots ( but it doesn’t apply , ha ha).
Thanks for your help. 

[ThinkingPlus]

[ShortGolfer]

I routinely take a free drop in a bunker that partially fills with water. Then I'll pull my 58/6 Thin Sole wedge to pick it off a bare lie.

 

Yesterday I had my first bunker shot of the season.  One of my foresome suggested putting out of the wet sand.  I pulled out my 58/6 and took a swing. 

It wasn't pretty, just grazing the edge of the lip of the bunker, but gave me a makeable putt for par 3.  Missed and putted it in for bogey.

I didn't think I'd reach the bunker with a 22* 4I and checked another guy's ball to be sure!

Edited June 16 by ShortGolfer

[Newby]

On 6/16/2024 at 4:30 AM, ShortGolfer said:

I routinely take a free drop in a bunker that partially fills with water. Then I'll pull my 58/6 Thin Sole wedge to pick it off a bare lie.

 

Yesterday I had my first bunker shot of the season.  One of my foresome suggested putting out of the wet sand.  I pulled out my 58/6 and took a swing. 

It wasn't pretty, just grazing the edge of the lip of the bunker, but gave me a makeable putt for par 3.  Missed and putted it in for bogey.

I didn't think I'd reach the bunker with a 22* 4I and checked another guy's ball to be sure!

And this answers the original question how?

[ShortGolfer]

I thought it would be useful to point out where free relief may be granted in bunker.  Those specific USGA rules could be examined in greater detail.

https://www.usga.org/content/usga/home-page/rules/rules-2019/players-edition/rule-16.html

c. Relief for Your Ball in Bunker

If your ball is in a bunker and there is interference by an abnormal course condition on the course, you may take either:

• Free Relief: Under Rule 16.1b, except that:

  • The nearest point of complete relief and the relief area must be in the bunker.

  • If there is no such nearest point of complete relief in the bunker, you may still take this relief, by using the point of maximum available relief in the bunker as the reference point.

 

Edited June 18 by ShortGolfer

[Newby]

13 minutes ago, ShortGolfer said:

I thought it would be useful to point out where free relief may be granted in bunker.  Those specific rules could be examined in greater detail.

https://www.usga.org/content/usga/home-page/rules/rules-2019/players-edition/rule-16.html

 

What about liners or steps? Why do we need to know how you played rather than just the situations that may arise entitling you to free relief? Referencing 12.3 would have done.

Edited June 18 by Newby

[ShortGolfer]

7 minutes ago, Newby said:

What about liners or steps? Why do we need to know how you played rather than just the situations that may arise entitling you to free relief?

I've been questioned about KVC or known with virtual certainty.  How do I know my ball is in the abnormal course conditions?

If I just give the situation some need more information for the KVC provisons of ACC.

Is the splash of water into the air when seen from 100 yards sufficient for KVC?

Edited June 18 by ShortGolfer

[Newby]

6 minutes ago, ShortGolfer said:

I've been questioned about KVC or known with virtual certainty.  How do I know my ball is in the abnormal course conditions?

If I just give the situation some need more information for the KVC provisons of ACC.

Is the splash of water into the air when seen from 100 yards sufficient for KVC?

How is the following related to the original question?

 

I routinely take a free drop in a bunker that partially fills with water. Then I'll pull my 58/6 Thin Sole wedge to pick it off a bare lie.

 

Yesterday I had my first bunker shot of the season.  One of my foresome suggested putting out of the wet sand.  I pulled out my 58/6 and took a swing. 

It wasn't pretty, just grazing the edge of the lip of the bunker, but gave me a makeable putt for par 3.  Missed and putted it in for bogey.

I didn't think I'd reach the bunker with a 22* 4I and checked another guy's ball to be sure!

 

[ShortGolfer]

That is the way I play according to the rules.  I remember what I did last time.  If something new comes up I'll study the rules and figure out what to do the next time the situation arises.

This allows me to play quickly and follow the USGA rules at the same time.  I don't play for a handicap so first priority is quick play.  But I'd like to  be able to play by the USGA rules as well.

 

I had a Brain Stem bleed that affected my balance and coordination, but I don't think it changed my cognitive abilities.  Seems like I've always been this way. 

Edited June 18 by ShortGolfer