commitment reneg

[fl4ever]

question how often do recruits who have verbal commitment get their ofer pulled?  are there many examples and what would it take normally

[golfortennis]

Probably a fair bit.  Anything from poor grades to an incident that makes the kid toxic for the program(cheating, mixed up in criminal activity).  And I'm not sure how much it happens in golf compared to football, but if the coach flat out thinks they have found a better option.

 

A verbal commitment from a school is about as good as "the cheque is in the mail."  Only the honor system binds a coach to it, and considering how often kids back out of theirs, I don't blame them. 

[fl4ever]

ok what if its not to do with ethic or legal or grades just bad play?  will a coach for a very competitive team pull offer?

[golfortennis]

3 minutes ago, fl4ever said:

ok what if its not to do with ethic or legal or grades just bad play?  will a coach for a very competitive team pull offer?

 

Unless you have signed an NLI, I would assume it could happen.  Are you in touch with other parents who have dealt with this coach?  They will be your best source.  And it depends on what you mean by bad play.  A tournament or two where they struggle, I don't know if that is enough to do it.  Missing cuts at tournaments they should win or contend at quite easily... maybe.  Is there a reason for the bad play?  He is already at a college, but a friend's son dropped down the leaderboard quite a bit on the final day of a state competition.  Without knowing the dad, I would have said he really struggled, but turns out he pinched a nerve in his back.  So as always, context is everything.

[mrshinsa]

Slightly off-topic, I talked to a coach who said early verbal commit only benefits the coaches. 

Even after verbal commit, most coaches will continue to recruit.  

Edited July 15 by mrshinsa

[fl4ever]

ok early but what about 2025?  when is there safety?

[golferdad8]

Some coaches are flaky, but most will honor their verbal offer absent something that is an academic or rules violation. 

The most common examples of reneging on offers that I've seen are new coaches coming in and not honoring the prior coach's offers. 

This happened most recently at USC when the new coach from Missouri came in & pulled spots, and proceeded to bring in mid-western recruits who don't realize that LA golf/logistics is NOT easy. 

[DFS PFD]

This is comical, there's no "safety" until you have your contract in hand. Even then, you have to perform in the classroom and golf course. 

 

Get it in writing if you want peace of mind. 

[fl4ever]

will college coach do a writen commitment before NIL?

[NJBigFish22]

In any sport, until the athlete is able to sign (national signing day) an actual offer, nothing is guaranteed.  Even after you sign, that commitment is only for a year.  
 

Personally you are asking questions that are to broad and without context.  If you spell out more of the situation you may get better responses.

[Happyguy]

I have only seen it when a new coach comes in like what happened with USC. Otherwise I have not heard of a coach not fulfilling a verbal commitment in golf. 

Did see a boy '24 who was already signed then decommitted from Oregon State and is now signed with University of San Diego. Not sure how that works since he had already signed with Oregon State.  

 

[NJBigFish22]

28 minutes ago, JDBM said:

I have only seen it when a new coach comes in like what happened with USC. Otherwise I have not heard of a coach not fulfilling a verbal commitment in golf. 

Did see a boy '24 who was already signed then decommitted from Oregon State and is now signed with University of San Diego. Not sure how that works since he had already signed with Oregon State.  

 

Most schools would rather give a student athlete a release than hold him to the commitment because the coach usually feels he can easily fill that spot, especially at the D1 level.

[mrshinsa]

3 hours ago, fl4ever said:

ok early but what about 2025?  when is there safety?

 

Early meaning 2026.  

For 2025, you need to step on the gas

[kcap]

All this talk of not being safe etc

 

does anyone have a actual example of a top D1 school reneging on a commitment due to poor play after the verbal?

[wegobomber31]

I imagine it probably happens when a player doesn’t improve or gets worse and the coach can basically put the writing on the wall that they aren’t going to see playing time. When I see a kid post that they are reopening the recruitment whether it was their choice or the program’s

[golferdad8]

We’ve watched two formerly strong 2024 players slip a good amount the past 2 years & it looks like both are still planning to go to Oklahoma & Illinois.
 

Good job to coaches for being loyal with commitments. It will be interesting to see if either get any playing time - or get redshirted/on the way out? 
 

One current Stanford roster player who’s slipped big time has played 1 tournament in two years - and often finishes bottom half of amateurs (can’t beat many 10th graders) - he’s still on the team. Kudos to the coach for keeping his commitment. If the kid were at USC or UCLA, he would have been booted a long time ago. 
 

[LawGenius305]

13 hours ago, kcap said:

All this talk of not being safe etc

 

does anyone have a actual example of a top D1 school reneging on a commitment due to poor play after the verbal?

Yes, but not throwing out names.

[leezer99]

1 hour ago, LawGenius305 said:

Yes, but not throwing out names.

[Happyguy]

25 minutes ago, leezer99 said:

I agree. 
It’s clearly not a secret if they know someone who was dropped. 
I haven’t seen or heard of a kid being dropped from a verbal commit due to bad play. Once on the team and they don’t play well yes, or if a new coach comes in. 
But if a coach drops a verbal commit before signing, that coach will lose all credibility. 

[LawGenius305]

1 hour ago, leezer99 said:

University of Miami Women have made a habit of it. Not going to name names for the sake of the players. Don't you think it is embarrassing?

[golferdad8]

Lots of big names in junior/college golf here. Let’s see if TUGR include these scores & head to heads. 
https://ncga.bluegolf.com/bluegolfw/ncga24/event/ncga24119/contest/1/leaderboard.htm

[HoosYourDaddy]

On 7/15/2024 at 8:29 PM, kcap said:

All this talk of not being safe etc

 

does anyone have a actual example of a top D1 school reneging on a commitment due to poor play after the verbal?

Stanford 

[golferdad8]

23 minutes ago, HoosYourDaddy said:

Stanford 

Stanford - seriously? 

 

If this is true, take a look at the stats of the current Stanford freshmen & sophomores:

https://gostanford.com/documents/b831922b-20fd-4f9e-b62f-4de587f57b0c.pdf

 

Based on this and the poor results, the coach should have reneg'd on many more player (or he recruit better) players!?! 
 

Otherwise, perhaps the parents need to donate enough money, haha. 

 

[kcap]

1 hour ago, HoosYourDaddy said:

Stanford 

Very easy to just throw a name out.

 

Let’s  have some more information before we take your word for it.

 

especially since this you barely post to this forum.  

 

 

[HoosYourDaddy]

2 hours ago, kcap said:

Very easy to just throw a name out.

 

Let’s  have some more information before we take your word for it.

 

especially since this you barely post to this forum.  

 

 

https://www.seacoastonline.com/story/sports/2020/07/09/collision-course-locals-huang-groft-to-go-head-to-head-in-state-am-quarterfinals/42446583/

 

there’s also another Stanford reneg who eventually went Ivy in addition to this example

[Tugu]

12 hours ago, golferdad8 said:

Stanford - seriously? 

 

If this is true, take a look at the stats of the current Stanford freshmen & sophomores:

https://gostanford.com/documents/b831922b-20fd-4f9e-b62f-4de587f57b0c.pdf

 

Based on this and the poor results, the coach should have reneg'd on many more player (or he recruit better) players!?! 
 

Otherwise, perhaps the parents need to donate enough money, haha. 

 

I'll say one thing for Stanford, they are brutally transparent with their scoring data. No padding or hiding if you play for them.

[golferdad8]

13 hours ago, HoosYourDaddy said:

https://www.seacoastonline.com/story/sports/2020/07/09/collision-course-locals-huang-groft-to-go-head-to-head-in-state-am-quarterfinals/42446583/

 

there’s also another Stanford reneg who eventually went Ivy in addition to this example

Is it a “reneg” if the recruit can’t pass admissions? For some situations, the coaches want the kid but they’re not in a position to override admissions. 

The only situation that I know of is Princeton - where even during the beginning of junior year of high school (and only 9-10th year grades), the coaches will openly waive the SAT requirement if they wants the player. This also how they got the prior Stanford Commit who failed admissions - but end up being embarrassing for everyone involved. 
 

THIS is why Harvard is emphatic that no commits say anything publicly until after the recruits are officially admitted to the school in December of senior year when the admissions office send out the announcements. Collegegolfadmits IG announcements are always mid Dec after early decisions come out. 
 

Btw, this admissions rejection happens more than many realize. In the Ivies (except Princeton), the coaches openly share that they can’t admit. This is why Ivies do official pre-reads ONLY in July after the junior year, after all the grades & test scores are sent to admissions. 

My advice to recruits if they want to go Ivies (or an academic school), don’t commit to the school until after the junior year & the junior year grades/test scores are approved by the admissions office. Many recruits who commit early & without the admissions office approval, they end up getting ghosted by the coaches after the admissions denial, and they have to scramble to find another school (many of whom are full by then) - or are forced to take a gap year. 

These renegs are why Cornell doesn’t like to do golf recruiting & make offers until after the kids are already admitted. Think about it - other ivies commits announce early, but have any of you seen kids announcement verbal commitment to Cornell?
 

Of course the downside of being proper & thorough with recruits explain why Cornell golf is always the worst team in the ivies as the best players already went elsewhere. 
 

[Golfquant]

I don't know about any specific schools, but I doubt a highly desirable program loses much if they drop an underperforming commit.  Even if Stanford had a reputation of reneging on underperformers consistently they'd still get the top ranked kids dying to play for them every year.  The players they are targeting don't seem to be concerned about playing poorly in the first place - and even if they do and are dropped they probably have a bunch of backup options.  A recruit slipping from #20 to #50-75 in the rankings still leaves lots of playing options.

 

It's the schools outside the top 50 that probably have the most to lose reputation-wise and might not risk it, and the kids ranked 100+ and who fall far/fast who probably should sweat losing a verbal commitment the most.

[golferdad8]

4 hours ago, Golfquant said:

I don't know about any specific schools, but I doubt a highly desirable program loses much if they drop an underperforming commit.  Even if Stanford had a reputation of reneging on underperformers consistently they'd still get the top ranked kids dying to play for them every year.  The players they are targeting don't seem to be concerned about playing poorly in the first place - and even if they do and are dropped they probably have a bunch of backup options.  A recruit slipping from #20 to #50-75 in the rankings still leaves lots of playing options.

 

It's the schools outside the top 50 that probably have the most to lose reputation-wise and might not risk it, and the kids ranked 100+ and who fall far/fast who probably should sweat losing a verbal commitment the most.

From my observations, Stanford does not reneg due to commits playing poorly after accepting the offer. For many weak players, even after they join the team, they have not been dropped so coach does deserve credit for honoring that (but it could be because he can’t replace them if he droops them).

The only situation I’ve heard on a reneg was due to admissions denial - so that’s not the coach’s call. 

That being said, his recruiting style might also be one of the reasons why it will be difficult for Stanford Men’s Golf to get back to national limelight.
 

Unlike their famous Women’s Golf Team, the guys don’t seem to have the team chemistry & commitment to each other. They do have strong individual players but without chemistry, the team often misses the NCAA. Heck, Stanford can recruit any golfer in the world - yet this year their final ranking was below Cal, East TN state & New Mexico. 
 

[LawGenius305]

25 minutes ago, golferdad8 said:

 

Unlike their famous Women’s Golf Team, the guys don’t seem to have the team chemistry & commitment to each other. They do have strong individual players but without chemistry, the team often misses the NCAA. Heck, Stanford can recruit any golfer in the world - yet this year their final ranking was below Cal, East TN state & New Mexico. 
 

There is a lot of truth to this statement for college golf.  Our family has been on both sides of the fence.  Daughter's team was a wreck because of poor leadership from the top down.  Son's team had kids overachieve because of the chemistry, unity, and family that the coach has created over the 20 years on the job.  Great leadership from coach and handed down by players year after year creates a unique team bond.  These teams you see advancing have this bond.