An Open Letter to Those Who Forsake the Rules

[Tin Pot]

With all this talk of "integrity" I expect some of these posters to send in a check to their local authorities every time they catch themselves going over the speed limit.

 

 

These posters have yet to state they are playing a round of 'Lawful Citizen'. If they were playing such a game, I'm sure they'd abide by it's rules.

[arkstorm]

Actually, I don't think there is any provision in the Rules of Golf for a "practice round".

 

There isn't. But a "stipulated round" has a specific definition and I don't think there is a problem with carrying a couple of extra wedges or an extra driver in a practice round to see what works for you. But that's not what this thread is about. Its specifically about not following the rules when keeping score during a stipulated round.

A "stipulated round" simply means playing the holes in their designated order. In addition, a stipulated round is 18 holes under normal conditions.

 

Accordingly all rounds of 18 holes are stipulated rounds. And the first rule of golf is that you can't waive the rules of golf. I'm not sure how you reconcile that...

 

You are so caught up in excusing those who don't care about the rules that you revert to the tactic of attempting to demonstrate that there are instances where the rules are inapplicable, therefore, the rules are always inapplicable.

 

I have no problem with Phil Mickelson playing a practice round with a few extra wedges to see what works...that's not the point here. If he's over 14 clubs in that round I'm not suggesting he's cheating. The issue here is (and if you go back to my original post its pretty clear) that its a mistake to encourage new golfers to bag the rules.

 

I'm not saying that if you carry an extra putter every once in a while in a recreational round if you're deciding between two the golf gods should strike you dead. I'm just saying you shouldn't do it every time because the rules are important. I'm also not picking on the 14 club rule as being more important than other rules, its just one example.

[Ogre41]

I am in favor of Sir Richard Gusset's views on this topic. There are too many rules now. There need only be two. 1) Play the ball as it lies. 2) Play the course as you find it. That's enough. So if you want to keep your Rutting Iron and your Splatterguard Wedge in the bag with as many clubs as you (or your caddy) can can carry, them have at it.

[blade_man]

Dude, if my friends had to play by the rules, they probably wouldn't play at all. Most of them play about 5-10 times a year MAX and if taking a few mulligans makes the game more fun, I'm 100% in favor of it.

 

My one friend sucks so badly we let him lift from bunkers and drop in the fairway if he goes OB. He's one of the most uncoordinated people I know but he has fun on the golf course and can actually get around ok with a few provisions.

 

Now I do have a problem w/ people who keep a handicap or claim to have a handicap yet don't follow the rules. That annoys me to no end!

 

And obviously in tournament play, I wont tolerate cheating...and have never seen someone attempt to cheat.

 

Dude! not playing by the rules is cheating, no? Guy comes in says he shoots 79 first time he ever played (doesn't count the 22 balls he hits out of bounds or "replaying" 40 putts to finally make one) yes this is extreme but you get my point? Not trying to be an Word not allowed but EVERY game has rules and that is what makes them games, if they don't want to play by the rules go to a cow pasture and try to chip into cow "pies", and golf is not an elitist game but what other sport call penalties on themselves? This is just my opinion for what is worth or my $.02 worth.

[xan_user]

If there are no practice rounds how does one score a teaching lesson round when my instructor has me make several shots/putts from the same spot?

With all the penalties I would incur with that round, I would shoot way over 150, if I kept score... Now that would be sandbagging!

 

Why can I never find a rules judge standing around on the course when I need a ruling, like the pros always seem to do? :clapping:

[Swingtheclub]

well I do not agree with you how people play the game if not in competition does not really matter.

 

As a single digit players its easy sometimes to forget that a lot of people play just for fun.

 

I have carried over 15 clubs when I was practicing, and trying to decide between two putters or two drivers or whatever.

 

But here is my question .

 

when your ball moved

 

I lined up the put and grounded my putter behind the ball and the ball rolled back an inch. I made the putt and marked down a bogey because had I not taken the penalty stroke I wouldn't have

 

Did you put it back before you putted it?

 

Ken

[arkstorm]

well I do not agree with you how people play the game if not in competition does not really matter.

 

Wait just one moment. Read my initial post again. That was a quote from someone else, hence the quotation marks on either side of it. I disagree with that also!

 

 

when your ball moved

 

Did you put it back before you putted it?

 

Ken

 

As a matter of fact, yes I did.

[Bomb and Gouge]

Dude, if my friends had to play by the rules, they probably wouldn't play at all. Most of them play about 5-10 times a year MAX and if taking a few mulligans makes the game more fun, I'm 100% in favor of it.

 

My one friend sucks so badly we let him lift from bunkers and drop in the fairway if he goes OB. He's one of the most uncoordinated people I know but he has fun on the golf course and can actually get around ok with a few provisions.

 

Now I do have a problem w/ people who keep a handicap or claim to have a handicap yet don't follow the rules. That annoys me to no end!

 

And obviously in tournament play, I wont tolerate cheating...and have never seen someone attempt to cheat.

 

Dude! not playing by the rules is cheating, no? Guy comes in says he shoots 79 first time he ever played (doesn't count the 22 balls he hits out of bounds or "replaying" 40 putts to finally make one) yes this is extreme but you get my point? Not trying to be an Word not allowed but EVERY game has rules and that is what makes them games, if they don't want to play by the rules go to a cow pasture and try to chip into cow "pies", and golf is not an elitist game but what other sport call penalties on themselves? This is just my opinion for what is worth or my $.02 worth.

 

Actually I have no idea what your point is....sorry.

[blade_man]

Dude, if my friends had to play by the rules, they probably wouldn't play at all. Most of them play about 5-10 times a year MAX and if taking a few mulligans makes the game more fun, I'm 100% in favor of it.

 

My one friend sucks so badly we let him lift from bunkers and drop in the fairway if he goes OB. He's one of the most uncoordinated people I know but he has fun on the golf course and can actually get around ok with a few provisions.

 

Now I do have a problem w/ people who keep a handicap or claim to have a handicap yet don't follow the rules. That annoys me to no end!

 

And obviously in tournament play, I wont tolerate cheating...and have never seen someone attempt to cheat.

 

Dude! not playing by the rules is cheating, no? Guy comes in says he shoots 79 first time he ever played (doesn't count the 22 balls he hits out of bounds or "replaying" 40 putts to finally make one) yes this is extreme but you get my point? Not trying to be an Word not allowed but EVERY game has rules and that is what makes them games, if they don't want to play by the rules go to a cow pasture and try to chip into cow "pies", and golf is not an elitist game but what other sport call penalties on themselves? This is just my opinion for what is worth or my $.02 worth.

 

Actually I have no idea what your point is....sorry.

 

 

The simple point b&g is play by the rules, if not don't call it golf because its not, pretty simple, maybe if you are not going to play by the rules you can call it "almost golf" and the only rule for it is "there are no rules".

[Bomb and Gouge]

The simple point b&g is play by the rules, if not don't call it golf because its not, pretty simple, maybe if you are not going to play by the rules you can call it "almost golf" and the only rule for it is "there are no rules".

 

 

Go to hell man!

 

I do play by the rules. I think you should take some reading comprehension classes- ha ha ha!

[arkstorm]

Guys, I see this topic has engendered some heated debate but let's tone it down one notch so this thread doesn't get the kaibosch put on it. Thanks.

[blade_man]

The simple point b&g is play by the rules, if not don't call it golf because its not, pretty simple, maybe if you are not going to play by the rules you can call it "almost golf" and the only rule for it is "there are no rules".

 

 

Go to hell man!

 

I do play by the rules. I think you should take some reading comprehension classes- ha ha ha!

 

 

 

 

That was really unnecessary, I was not saying you didn't play by the rules but if you don't then call it something besides golf, and maybe you should take some anger management classes.

[Bomb and Gouge]

That was really unnecessary, I was not saying you didn't play by the rules but if you don't then call it something besides golf, and maybe you should take some anger management classes.

 

 

Who do you think you are to tell anyone what they should or shouldn't do? Get over yourself....you're not that important!

[Dill Pickleson]

say that you normally adjust your score, and you shoot about 85, then go out and count everything and you shoot 95, youll have a lot easier time improving the 95 than improving on the adjusted 85, i was shooting adjusted 80's, but how was i gonna break 80, cheat even more lol, now that i count every shot, i find it a lot easier to improve my score on a consistent basis

[blade_man]

That was really unnecessary, I was not saying you didn't play by the rules but if you don't then call it something besides golf, and maybe you should take some anger management classes.

 

 

Who do you think you are to tell anyone what they should or shouldn't do? Get over yourself....you're not that important!

 

 

Take a chill pill DUDE! I am that important, to the op sorry about this, as b&g has no respect for anyone and I will let him get the last word after this post, and thanks for a great forum.

[krustyburger]

Dude, if my friends had to play by the rules, they probably wouldn't play at all. Most of them play about 5-10 times a year MAX and if taking a few mulligans makes the game more fun, I'm 100% in favor of it.

 

My one friend sucks so badly we let him lift from bunkers and drop in the fairway if he goes OB. He's one of the most uncoordinated people I know but he has fun on the golf course and can actually get around ok with a few provisions.

 

Now I do have a problem w/ people who keep a handicap or claim to have a handicap yet don't follow the rules. That annoys me to no end!

 

And obviously in tournament play, I wont tolerate cheating...and have never seen someone attempt to cheat.

 

Dude! not playing by the rules is cheating, no? Guy comes in says he shoots 79 first time he ever played (doesn't count the 22 balls he hits out of bounds or "replaying" 40 putts to finally make one) yes this is extreme but you get my point? Not trying to be an Word not allowed but EVERY game has rules and that is what makes them games, if they don't want to play by the rules go to a cow pasture and try to chip into cow "pies", and golf is not an elitist game but what other sport call penalties on themselves? This is just my opinion for what is worth or my $.02 worth.

 

Actually I have no idea what your point is....sorry.

 

 

The simple point b&g is play by the rules, if not don't call it golf because its not, pretty simple, maybe if you are not going to play by the rules you can call it "almost golf" and the only rule for it is "there are no rules".

 

Every sport has rules, and every other sport has ways to play it that deviate from the written rules. If I play a 2-on-2 game of basketball, am I breaking the rules? The rules say 5 players on a team. Sometimes we lower the rim to 9 feet and we allow goaltending. Does that make us cheaters? I've played 6-on-6 softball games where we've decided that a hit to the opposite field is an out since we don't have enough players to cover the whole field. Do we have to call that "almost softball"? Of course not. And somehow we can play those sports without anyone whining about how the games of basketball or softball need to be protected. So why is golf any different? I don't care if someone plays basketball on a lowered rim, and I don't care if someone carries 15 clubs. Neither one cheapens the game.

[phil75070]

I know that people will be people and will always break rules and act selfishly but to just stand by and say "let people do whatever, there's nothing I can do about it, besides it doesn't hurt me", is weak and unprincipled.

 

What would be selfish is on a crowded Saturday or Sunday, playing strictly by the Rules and standing on the tee hitting provisional after provisional until one was sure one of them could be found. Or.......What would be selfish is not playing a provisional and going back to the tee to hit another ball after not finding the original ball and not letting the group behind play through. With the current pace of play as it is and the tight tee times and crowded courses on a weekend, for "casual" rounds of golf I see no reason for someone to not just drop a ball in the area where it was lost (in the same cut of rough, etc.), play on, putting down their most likely score and using ESC adjustment at the end of the round.

 

I regularly play a course that for "ego purposes" keeps the primary rough at US Open length or worse. Four guys can watch where a ball goes, feel they have a real good idea where it is (and it could be just off the fairway), and four guys cannot find the ball after searching for 5 minutes. The rough gets overseeded every fall with new fescue. Most courses want you keeping your carts out of the fairway. This course wants carts kept on the cart paths or in the fairways and kept OUT of the rough. The state of the rough makes it one of the tougher courses in the State (7346 yds, 77.6 / 147 from the back tees), makes it too tough for women and youths, and, as a result, has never approached full membership. Miss the fairway and if you find it, at most, you can hit an 8-iron back in the stance. More often the lie and the rough are so bad that all you can do is hit a wedge back to the fairway.

[willamette]

Last two posts are spot on. Glad there's some sanity left in the golfing world.

[Swingtheclub]

First off to the original poster I am glad you moved it back. You did not mention it and I wondered if you new the rule?

 

I was thinking about other games and rules . Did you ever watch and NBA game I mean what the heck is a foul anymore?

 

Honestly I just want people to play the game of golf and enjoy it, I wish more of them new the rules but I am not at all disturbed that some do not care.

 

 

 

At the same time nothing kills me more than to be playing in a club event and have someone knock a putt back and say thats good.

 

I then become the a hole that putts it back and putts it.

 

 

Ken

[HeadonaStick]

Actually, I don't think there is any provision in the Rules of Golf for a "practice round".

 

There isn't. But a "stipulated round" has a specific definition and I don't think there is a problem with carrying a couple of extra wedges or an extra driver in a practice round to see what works for you. But that's not what this thread is about. Its specifically about not following the rules when keeping score during a stipulated round.

A "stipulated round" simply means playing the holes in their designated order. In addition, a stipulated round is 18 holes under normal conditions.

 

Accordingly all rounds of 18 holes are stipulated rounds. And the first rule of golf is that you can't waive the rules of golf. I'm not sure how you reconcile that...

 

You are so caught up in excusing those who don't care about the rules that you revert to the tactic of attempting to demonstrate that there are instances where the rules are inapplicable, therefore, the rules are always inapplicable.

 

I have no problem with Phil Mickelson playing a practice round with a few extra wedges to see what works...that's not the point here. If he's over 14 clubs in that round I'm not suggesting he's cheating. The issue here is (and if you go back to my original post its pretty clear) that its a mistake to encourage new golfers to bag the rules.

 

I'm not saying that if you carry an extra putter every once in a while in a recreational round if you're deciding between two the golf gods should strike you dead. I'm just saying you shouldn't do it every time because the rules are important. I'm also not picking on the 14 club rule as being more important than other rules, its just one example.

Actually, I'm not excusing anyone. You're confusing indifference with support. It is not my place to condemn or excuse anyone on a golf course. If you think it is I'd suggest you've actually missed the core value in golf.

 

That said, your post simply seems like a long winded rationalization of breaking the rules. If it okay to exempt the rules, then its okay. Why do you get to decide for others when it is right and when it is wrong? Honestly, unless they have agreed with you to abide by a certain set of rules (say, in competition) then I just don't see how it is any of your business.

 

Play your game. Leave others alone. If they carry 30 clubs I still don't see what it has to do with you or your game.

 

That was really unnecessary, I was not saying you didn't play by the rules but if you don't then call it something besides golf, and maybe you should take some anger management classes.

 

 

Who do you think you are to tell anyone what they should or shouldn't do? Get over yourself....you're not that important!

Isn't that really the core of this entire thread?

[arkstorm]

So is the core value of golf to mind your own business and don't worry about what others are doing? I don't think so.

 

The core values of golf include integrity and promoting the game. Like another post here said, if you're not playing by the rules, you're not playing golf.

 

The "core of this thread", if you will, is that I think its a mistake to promote to new golfers to not worry about the rules. I don't agree with the reductio ad absurdum responses either. While I'm not advocating standing there all day and beating balls over the white stake holding up play until you finally get one in, there is no reason not to carry the maximum allowable number of clubs. If you want to grind this down to brass tacks, the hacker who can't get off the tee inbounds should stick to the range until he can...but that's another thread.

 

Whether you play by the rules or not is a personal decision. Advocating not playing by the rules to others is a decision that affects every golfer. Let's get new golfers started down the right path.

[Bomb and Gouge]

Whether you play by the rules or not is a personal decision.

 

 

Exactly! So why do so many people care about what other people are doing? I really don't understand that.

 

The bottom line is 9/10 people who play golf DO NOT play by the rules...and the game goes on.

 

Personally, I think the rules of golf are what make it such a great game. But for most people, getting outside and having some fun is all that matters. And I think that's great too!

 

I don't care if you carry 18 clubs, play with range balls, tee it up in the fairway, take 10-foot gimmes and play three mulligans...while talking on your cell phone....as long as it doesn't affect me!

 

 

Golf is a game...have fun! ;)

 

 

Ok, thread closed.

[Ogre41]

It sounds like there are a couple people here who are trying to protect the sanctity of the game. Go play your featherie and stop whining about what evryone else is doing. Are they hurting you? Does what they do affect you directly (it obviously hurts your feelings)? Put on a plaid jacket and join in the ban against the NXT.

[Pleasedwith3putts]

I think the issue here is the question of whether it impacts you. Now I agree with most that I could not give two hoots if someone does not play by the rules in a friendly and if it is a social game and it makes them enjoy their round more, then good for them.

 

I would not be as understanding though if I lost out in a competition to someone who was fragrantly disregarding the rules by for instance knowingly taking out 18 clubs. That is where it crosses the line for me, albeit my primary focus will always be on being happy with what I achieve as I have no control over others.

[arkstorm]

Whether you play by the rules or not is a personal decision.

 

 

Exactly! So why do so many people care about what other people are doing? I really don't understand that.

 

The bottom line is 9/10 people who play golf DO NOT play by the rules...and the game goes on.

 

Personally, I think the rules of golf are what make it such a great game. But for most people, getting outside and having some fun is all that matters. And I think that's great too!

 

I don't care if you carry 18 clubs, play with range balls, tee it up in the fairway, take 10-foot gimmes and play three mulligans...while talking on your cell phone....as long as it doesn't affect me!

 

 

Golf is a game...have fun! ;)

 

 

Ok, thread closed.

 

I don't care if you quote me out of context but the point remains that if we encourage new golfers to know the rules and play by them its a good thing. Whether they then choose to respect those rules is a personal decision.

 

And on the subject of respect, "OK, thread closed" does not demonstrate respect to those on this forum that find this discussion valuable.

[arkstorm]

It sounds like there are a couple people here who are trying to protect the sanctity of the game. Go play your featherie and stop whining about what evryone else is doing. Are they hurting you? Does what they do affect you directly (it obviously hurts your feelings)? Put on a plaid jacket and join in the ban against the NXT.

 

Why? Playing an NXT doesn't violate the rules.

[KevCarter]

... if we encourage new golfers to know the rules and play by them its a good thing. Whether they then choose to respect those rules is a personal decision. ...

 

EXACTLY!

 

;)

[HeadonaStick]

So is the core value of golf to mind your own business and don't worry about what others are doing? I don't think so.

 

The core value is personal responsibility. It is why we call penalties on ourselves.

 

As you said, whether or not a person follows the rules is a personal decision. So why are you involved?

 

I am responsible for me, and I play by the rules. I set an example (and by the way, when I refuse the mulligan and play the drive I just hit 30 yards, it seems that there is less mulliganism that day) and hope that others see that and realize, at the very least, that the game has rules.

 

The core values of golf include integrity and promoting the game. Like another post here said, if you're not playing by the rules, you're not playing golf.

 

Yes, I said that. I don't care if you play golf or not. I do, and that is all I can worry about. Integrity is a personal thing, and I wasn't aware promoting the game included being the equivalent of the moral majority on the golf course.

 

Get out of my bedroom, er... golf bag.

 

The "core of this thread", if you will, is that I think its a mistake to promote to new golfers to not worry about the rules. I don't agree with the reductio ad absurdum responses either. While I'm not advocating standing there all day and beating balls over the white stake holding up play until you finally get one in, there is no reason not to carry the maximum allowable number of clubs. If you want to grind this down to brass tacks, the hacker who can't get off the tee inbounds should stick to the range until he can...but that's another thread.

 

Sonds like a lot of doublespeak to me. You still haven't answered any question put to you, but here you are advocating breaking the rules again. The rules dictate that you stand there beating balls all day until you get one in play, but you seem to think it is okay to ignore that rule when convenient. I am still waiting to see how you reconcile your dual stances...

 

Whether you play by the rules or not is a personal decision. Advocating not playing by the rules to others is a decision that affects every golfer. Let's get new golfers started down the right path.

Whose advocating? Indifference is not the same as advocating. I don't care what another golfer does. I don't ask them to break the rules.

 

If they want to pound balls 'till they get one in play, I watch. If they want to pick-up after the 5th one, I silently applaud their decision to break the rules. If a player chooses to carry 14 clubs, good for them. If they choose to carry 15, I probably don't notice. If they choose to carry 30, I silently congratulate their chiropractor for his/her career choice. In no case do I mourn the death of golf.

 

*************************

 

One hole that stands out in my memory is a par 5 hole that often gives me problems even with the best of drives. On one particular day I had a topped drive that traveled about 10 yards, and only because the tee is on a hill.

 

My playing partners for the day told me to tee another one. I said I'd play it like I was supposed to... I believe those were my exact words in fact.

 

After the rest of my group tee'd off I trudged down the hill with a wedge. My ball was in deep rough and on a steep side-hill lie and I didn't want to risk anything longer than a wedge. I managed to get the ball out to reasonable driver length - I was still short of the rest of my partners! I pulled a three wood. I decided to try and hit a cut and get near the green. I didn't want to hit the ball straight or with a draw because any error would have put me in the water that runs next to the right fairway and green.

 

Deep breath. Swing with confidence. Hold breath and wait.

 

The ball landed soft and ended up less than 2 feet from the hole. One putt for birdie!

 

This is one of the most satisfying holes I can remember. Not because of the birdie, or at least not by itself. It is because I was able to adapt and overcome and play by the rules and still pull out the birdie. That satisfaction is not dimmed by the fact that playing that hole that way is the exception rather than the rule (in fact, I normally lay up rather than tempt the water on a good drive). That's what golf is to me, and what I believe it is meant to be for all. Not worrying about the fact that my playing partners would have simply re-teed. Or whether their clubs conform. Or how many they have. Or if they are wearing ugly socks or anything else that has to do with them.

 

The only thing I feel for people who choose not to follow the rules, if I have to feel anything at all, is mild pity that they will not experience the same satisfaction in their game. They will never experience golf.

 

If you want to promote the game and it's rules share a story like that. Or better yet, make those stories while others are watching.

[Bomb and Gouge]

And on the subject of respect, "OK, thread closed" does not demonstrate respect to those on this forum that find this discussion valuable.

 

It was a joke- lighten up, man! You seem like a real fun guy....GEEEEEZE!

[mjc694]

I played a round last year with a man, and his son. The son was mid-20's or so, the man probably late 50's. The man carried his bag, was gracious, and followed basic golf course etiquette all day (meaning he was quiet when others were playing, he never stepped in anyone's line, and he helped look for lost balls). The guy told a mean joke too, and gave me a cigar (a nice one) at the turn. He also used a tee on every shot. He teed up on the teeing ground, he teed up in the fairway, rough, and even pulled his ball out of a bunker on one hole and teed up from behind that particular hazard.

 

I really enjoyed my round with him, and the golf course we played at enjoyed his money. I never said a word to him. I think he knew he was "breaking the rules", but i dont think he cared. I certainly didnt care, and his son didnt care at all, either. We all had an enjoyable day, and everyone of us was better off for having played golf that day. This wasnt "cheating" this was playing golf for sheer enjoyment. I posted my score, but I would bet you the man didnt.

 

Conversely, I played a round in a match play tournament against a guy who couldnt quite get his score right. Offered 7 as a score on a hole he most certainly took 8 strokes to complete. Then argued with me until he knew he was caught dead to rights. That is cheating.

 

It is easy to get caught up in watching everyone else, and trying to protect the integrity of this wonderful game, but in my opinion (which tends to be worthless, usually) there is a difference between playing golf, and competing at golf. Most people who just "play" dont come on a golf only forum, but thank god they go to the golf courses. If they didnt....there would be far fewer golf courses making ends meet.