When to re-tee

[TonyMags]

Hey guys,

I'm not necessarily a new golfer I've just heard so many variations on this rule, I've looked it up and I don't want to decifer formal jargon. If I drive the ball out of bounds but there is no stake (red, yellow, white whatever) do you always have to re-tee 2 and hit 3? When else can you drop at point of entry? Re-teeing KILLS me (and I'm sure many other high handicappers) and although my home course is a pretty decent course, sometimes I feel like courses just don't bother to mark hazards, etc.

 

Thanks,

Tony

[mat562]

Out of bounds isn't always marked by white stakes. It can also take the form of boundary fences, walls, ditches etc. - but in these cases it will usually be listed on an individual basis on the scorecard for the course concerned or via a list of local rules.

 

Unfortunately, if you're out of bounds the only option is to hit another ball under the stroke and distance penalty from where the original shot was struck.

 

Provided the ball isn't loafing in a water hazard you've always got the option of hitting a provisional shot immediately after the bad 'un to save yourself the long walk back if it is indeed OB. If it's OB or otherwise lost (and not believed to have found a watery grave) the provisional ball is in play.

 

It's still annoying, but less so than walking over a quarter of a mile extra to hit another one afterwards.

[BDLz]

You do realize that red and yellow stakes are not OB right?

 

BDLz

[TonyMags]

Yeah I never walk back. Almost my whole course isn't marked OB - it's just woods. So in the rare instance you find one and have a clearing I guess I can play it out. But I don't really know if all woods are always considering OB if not marked.

[TonyMags]

yeah red's a hazard right? I'm pretty much saying aside from red, I usually see no stakes.

[mat562]

Unless the trees are defined as being OB by a local rule the wooded areas are an integral part of the course. If there are no stakes or any other sort of definite boundary line separating the treeline from the mown areas of the course, I'd imagine it's doubtful that they are OB - since it would be impractical to determine whether a ball was out of bounds or not when hit into that area.

 

Essentially, a lost ball amounts to the same as wafting one out of bounds and the procedure afterwards is to play a stroke and distance penalty and replay the ball from as near as possible to where the last stroke was played from.

 

The rule of thumb is a ball's in play unless it's the wrong side of a line of white stakes or over some other line that's considered the boundary of the course. If it's deep in the thick stuff and never seen again it's a re-tee or another go at it I'm afraid. Lost balls and balls OB are pretty much the same thing when it comes to the procedure afterwards.

[TonyMags]

Okay so now that we've determined that my handicap is about to go up by 10 points, when DO you mark a ball at point of entry?

[BDLz]

Okay so now that we've determined that my handicap is about to go up by 10 points, when DO you mark a ball at point of entry?

 

 

Lateral Water Hazards

 

BDLz

[TonyMags]

crap.

[mat562]

If a ball ends up in a water hazard, the point of entry (or, technically, the point at which the ball last crossed the margin of the hazard) becomes an issue since it plays a part in determining the point at which relief is, or can be taken.

 

In the absence of any red or yellow stakes in the area of your problematic trees though, you're in the same boat as above. If you hit one in the trees (assuming they're 'just' trees) you have the option, assuming you find the ball, to either play it as it lies or declare it unplayable. The options for an unplayable lie are:

 

1) Drop the ball within two club lengths, not nearer the hole;

2) Drop the ball anywhere along a line extending from the hole through the point at which the ball lies, and behind that point as far back as you deem fit;

3) Take the dreaded stroke and distance penalty and re-tee/re-hit from the point from which the original shot was struck or as near as possible to it.

 

If the ball is lost in the trees, unfortunately you've only got the stroke and distance option. Without wanting to teach you to suck eggs, you can obviously only declare a ball unplayable if you find it, properly identify it, and if it's in bounds and not in a water hazard or lateral water hazard - in which case you would have to proceed under the relevant penalty and dropping procedure.

 

A lot of people at my club play an ad hoc method of taking a penalty for a lost ball - which basically amounts to 'work out roughly where the ball went into the trees/rough that caused it to be lost and then drop a ball in the edge of the rough, outside the treeline, and at a point where there are no overhanging or restricting branches. Then add on a shot penalty and play it from there...'

 

Albeit this is a cushy number, it unfortunately doesn't conform to the rules of golf in any way, shape or form. :jester:

[c010r4d0g01f3r]

I have another rules re-tee question. What if I hit my first tee shot, see it head towards OB and think it might be out, hit a provisional which goes into the water, but find the first ball in a playable condition? Can I just play my first tee shot? Or do I have to add on some strokes? Thanks!

[BDLz]

I have another rules re-tee question. What if I hit my first tee shot, see it head towards OB and think it might be out, hit a provisional which goes into the water, but find the first ball in a playable condition? Can I just play my first tee shot? Or do I have to add on some strokes? Thanks!

 

 

As long as you declare that your second ball is a provisional before hitting it, you may play the first ball without any penalty.

 

BDLz

[RoscoeCoaltrain]

I guess I am breaking the rules, but I always do the following when I rock one out into the jungle:

1) Go try to find it. I fyou can find it, pitch it out in to the fairway, no harm no foul.

If I can't find it then

2) Drop a ball in play where I think the ball crossed out of bounds, Add one stroke

3) Hit shot number three from this lie.

 

So I guess technically I am breaking the rules. But this is what I have always been taught. I think this is reasonable for us weekend hacks, even if it doesn't follow the rules.

[KevCarter]

I guess I am breaking the rules, but I always do the following when I rock one out into the jungle:

1) Go try to find it. I fyou can find it, pitch it out in to the fairway, no harm no foul.

If I can't find it then

2) Drop a ball in play where I think the ball crossed out of bounds, Add one stroke

3) Hit shot number three from this lie.

 

So I guess technically I am breaking the rules. But this is what I have always been taught. I think this is reasonable for us weekend hacks, even if it doesn't follow the rules.

 

When you want to play by the rules, here is a good starting point for learning:

 

http://www.golfwrx.com/forums/index.php?showforum=50

 

A ton of the questions you will have were already asked and answered...

 

Kevin

[Bomb and Gouge]

I played in a tourney last week and one of the guys in my group had to walk back to the tee twice on the same hole.

 

He ended up hitting 5 BALLS O/B and carding a 15!

[KevCarter]

I played in a tourney last week and one of the guys in my group had to walk back to the tee twice on the same hole.

 

He ended up hitting 5 BALLS O/B and carding a 15!

 

It must have been tough for him not to quit. Good for him gutting it out and posting a score!

 

Kevin

[777twist]

I played in a tourney last week and one of the guys in my group had to walk back to the tee twice on the same hole.

 

He ended up hitting 5 BALLS O/B and carding a 15!

 

 

Yeah, I never quit... never surrender!

 

I put up a score of 14 on a par 4...the sick part is I hit 4 AWESOME shots...too bad they were inbetween 10 very crappy shots.

 

And as mad as I get, I don't give up... here are some good ones as examples!

 

1. That 14 I put up started with me trying my 2nd driver which I haven't used in 3 months...sliced OB, then used my regular driver, sliced OB..., same driver, same slice (hitting 7 at this point)then used my 3 IRON, sliced OB (hitting 9)...finally got one on the fairway and then used my 4iron for my approach...SLICE OB...(hitting 12), then a great shot to the base of the green, chipped up to 4 feet, putted out (14).

 

2. Hit about 5 yards to the left of the green which was about 4 feet up on a mound...was here in two (par 4)... then proceeded to hit 5 strokes just to get on the green, chunky, chunky, chunky, thin, then finally on the green.

 

3. Hit about 6 shots in a sand trap... damn was I freakin' mad!!!

 

4. This was a good one... fantasitic drive, drew around some trees about 270 - 280 yards, left me with about 135 yards in (par 4) ...took too much club, ended up in a small water hazard that's about 5 feet wide and stretches the 40 - 50 yards behind the green. Well, ended up in the water, but it was right in the middle... so being the 120 hacker I am, I say "I can get it out"...I proceed to create a giant splash, and I actually made contact, but too bad I skulled it and it plugged in the earth 2 inches above the water. So, I say, "I'll go ahead and drop now." Then I chunk it right back into the water, finally get a club on the next one and end up flying the green...chip back on, 3 putt...and ended up with an 11.

 

 

I don't know about you all, but sometimes I get all giddy, but in a mad way when things are going really bad for me. Think Chevy Chase in National Lampoon's Vacation when he couldn't get left, and kept driving around that circle saying "Big Ben,...Parliament...it's amazing, I just can't get left"

[jcholman]

Okay so now that we've determined that my handicap is about to go up by 10 points, when DO you mark a ball at point of entry?

 

 

There are also some courses that will have a local stroke and distance rule. When I travel to Scottsdale a lot of course are surrounded by brush and wastelands. We call it the desert rule. I guess the courses have adopted to save time.

 

Maybe your course has a similar rule.

[bermuda]

I guess I am breaking the rules, but I always do the following when I rock one out into the jungle:

1) Go try to find it. I fyou can find it, pitch it out in to the fairway, no harm no foul.

If I can't find it then

2) Drop a ball in play where I think the ball crossed out of bounds, Add one stroke

3) Hit shot number three from this lie.

 

So I guess technically I am breaking the rules. But this is what I have always been taught. I think this is reasonable for us weekend hacks, even if it doesn't follow the rules.

 

I think it's reasonable to do this sometimes if you add two strokes to get closer to the actual stroke-and-distance penalty. But the best approach is to hit a provisional if there's any doubt. I've hit a lot of provisionals and no one ever complained.

 

Related, if I think I hit into an unplayable lie, and moving two clublengths won't help, can I hit a provisional and play that rather than checking the first ball then walking back to rehit?

[KevCarter]

Related, if I think I hit into an unplayable lie, and moving two clublengths won't help, can I hit a provisional and play that rather than checking the first ball then walking back to rehit?

 

Sorry, no.

 

27-2c. When Provisional Ball to Be Abandoned

 

If the original ball is neither lost nor out of bounds, the player must abandon the provisional ball and continue playing the original ball. If he makes any further strokes at the provisional ball, he is playing a wrong ball and the provisions of Rule 15-3 apply.

 

27-2/1 Provisional Ball Serving as Ball in Play If Original Ball Unplayable or in Water Hazard

 

Q. May a player announce that a second ball he is going to play is both (a) a provisional ball in case the original ball is lost outside a water hazard or out of bounds and (b) the ball in play in case the original ball is unplayable or in a water hazard?

 

A. No.

[777twist]

Related, if I think I hit into an unplayable lie, and moving two clublengths won't help, can I hit a provisional and play that rather than checking the first ball then walking back to rehit?

 

Sorry, no.

 

27-2c. When Provisional Ball to Be Abandoned

 

If the original ball is neither lost nor out of bounds, the player must abandon the provisional ball and continue playing the original ball. If he makes any further strokes at the provisional ball, he is playing a wrong ball and the provisions of Rule 15-3 apply.

 

27-2/1 Provisional Ball Serving as Ball in Play If Original Ball Unplayable or in Water Hazard

 

Q. May a player announce that a second ball he is going to play is both (a) a provisional ball in case the original ball is lost outside a water hazard or out of bounds and (b) the ball in play in case the original ball is unplayable or in a water hazard?

 

A. No.

 

 

Bermuda may have the same issue I have... using the correct term when trying to describe something.

 

Based on what he's asking, it sounds like he's just trying to substitute a ball... abandoning the first. He says he's NOT going to go look for the original, and if he hits from his original spot, then he should be good to go, right? That just falls under hitting from your last spot and taking the stroke and distance, right?

 

I get called out on my wording with one my partners a lot... He hates when I try and call Adrian Petersen (MIN) AP...instead of AD.... I'm like "it should be AP!" Then he corrects me and says it's based on his nickname of "All Day."

 

Anyway, I may be wrong, but it sounds like he's using the wrong word for a legal play. But that being said, he has to understand that once he hits that 2nd ball, his orignal is done! Even if he finds it and realizes that it's playable even using the unplayable lie... right?

 

(you like how I try to correct, but I refuse to really believe my own comments, so I follow them up with "right?" each time...hehe)

 

Twist

[KevCarter]

Related, if I think I hit into an unplayable lie, and moving two clublengths won't help, can I hit a provisional and play that rather than checking the first ball then walking back to rehit?

 

Sorry, no.

 

27-2c. When Provisional Ball to Be Abandoned

 

If the original ball is neither lost nor out of bounds, the player must abandon the provisional ball and continue playing the original ball. If he makes any further strokes at the provisional ball, he is playing a wrong ball and the provisions of Rule 15-3 apply.

 

27-2/1 Provisional Ball Serving as Ball in Play If Original Ball Unplayable or in Water Hazard

 

Q. May a player announce that a second ball he is going to play is both (a) a provisional ball in case the original ball is lost outside a water hazard or out of bounds and (b) the ball in play in case the original ball is unplayable or in a water hazard?

 

A. No.

 

 

Bermuda may have the same issue I have... using the correct term when trying to describe something.

 

Based on what he's asking, it sounds like he's just trying to substitute a ball... abandoning the first. He says he's NOT going to go look for the original, and if he hits from his original spot, then he should be good to go, right? That just falls under hitting from your last spot and taking the stroke and distance, right?

 

I get called out on my wording with one my partners a lot... He hates when I try and call Adrian Petersen (MIN) AP...instead of AD.... I'm like "it should be AP!" Then he corrects me and says it's based on his nickname of "All Day."

 

Anyway, I may be wrong, but it sounds like he's using the wrong word for a legal play. But that being said, he has to understand that once he hits that 2nd ball, his orignal is done! Even if he finds it and realizes that it's playable even using the unplayable lie... right?

 

(you like how I try to correct, but I refuse to really believe my own comments, so I follow them up with "right?" each time...hehe)

 

Twist

 

Twist,

 

You are absolutely correct. He does not have to attempt to find the first ball.

 

Kevin

[spinningwedge]

Right, you can declare your ball lost at any time and go back to where you last where under penalty of stroke and distance.

 

So if for example you fire one into the trees, declare you'll play a provisional, then rip the provisional down the fairway into position A1, you can immediately declare the first ball lost. Or more practically, go and have a look for the first one anywhere where you wouldn't mind playing it from, if you don't get lucky then you declare the first one lost and play the provisional. The technique comes in handy in spots where the two "favourable" unplayable lie options carry no advantage.

 

Once you find the first one, it's in play and the provisional is abandonded.

[KevCarter]

Right, you can declare your ball lost at any time and go back to where you last where under penalty of stroke and distance.

 

So if for example you fire one into the trees, declare you'll play a provisional, then rip the provisional down the fairway into position A1, you can immediately declare the first ball lost. Or more practically, go and have a look for the first one anywhere where you wouldn't mind playing it from, if you don't get lucky then you declare the first one lost and play the provisional. The technique comes in handy in spots where the two "favourable" unplayable lie options carry no advantage.

 

Once you find the first one, it's in play and the provisional is abandonded.

 

Sorry, you can't ever DECLARE your ball lost. You have to take an action.

 

Kevin

[KevCarter]

27/16 Ball Declared Lost Is Found Before Another Ball Put into Play

Q. A player searched for his ball for two minutes, declared it lost and started back to play another ball at the spot from which the original ball was played. Before he put another ball into play, his original ball was found within the five-minute period allowed for search. What is the ruling?

 

A. A player cannot render a ball lost by a declaration — see Definition of “Lost Ball.” The original ball remained in play — see Definition of “Ball in Play.”

[KevCarter]

Lost Ball

A ball is deemed "lost" if:

 

a. It is not found or identified as his by the player within five minutes after the player's side or his or their caddies have begun to search for it; or

 

b. The player has made a stroke at a provisional ball from the place where the original ball is likely to be or from a point nearer the hole than that place (see Rule 27-2b); or

 

c. The player has put another ball into play under penalty of stroke and distance (see Rule 27-1a); or

 

d. The player has put another ball into play because it is known or virtually certain that the ball, which has not been found, has been moved by an outside agency (see Rule 18-1), is in an obstruction (see Rule 24-3), is in an abnormal ground condition (see Rule 25-1c) or is in a water hazard (see Rule 26-1); or

 

e. The player has made a stroke at a substituted ball.

[spinningwedge]

Kev, wait, if I play a provisional from the tee then, do I have to search for the original ball for the full five minutes?

 

What if after 2 mins it is obvious that the clag is so deep and nasty that I wouldn't find it in a lifetime of searching? Can't I then say, OK it's lost, the provisional is in play under penatly?

 

This is a different scenario than the 27/16 question an answer- I've already hit the provisonal.

[KevCarter]

Kev, wait, if I play a provisional from the tee then, do I have to search for the original ball for the full five minutes?

 

What if after 2 mins it is obvious that the clag is so deep and nasty that I wouldn't find it in a lifetime of searching? Can't I then say, OK it's lost, the provisional is in play under penatly?

 

This is a different scenario than the 27/16 question an answer- I've already hit the provisonal.

 

No, you can't make a declaration, it doesn't matter. What you can do is play your provisional from the place where the original ball is likely to be or from a point nearer the hole than that place. You can do that at any time before the original ball is found.

 

That is taking an action that renders the original ball lost.

 

Kevin

[blade_man]

I think this is one of the most interesting rules in golf:

The player may deem his ball unplayable at any place on the course, except when the ball is in a water hazard. The player is the sole judge as to whether his ball is unplayable.

 

If the player deems his ball to be unplayable, he must, under penalty of one stroke:

 

a.

Play a ball as nearly as possible at the spot from which the original ball was last played (see Rule

20-5

); or

 

b.

Drop a ball behind the point where the ball lay, keeping that point directly between the

hole

and the spot on which the ball is dropped, with no limit to how far behind that point the ball may be dropped; or

 

c.

Drop a ball within two club-lengths of the spot where the ball lay, but not nearer the

hole

.

 

If the unplayable ball is in a bunker, the player may proceed under Clause a, b or c. If he elects to proceed under Clause b or c, a ball must be dropped in the bunker.

 

When proceeding under this Rule, the player may lift and clean his ball or substitute a ball.

 

I think it was Gary McCord that putted (as an illustration) his ball off the green, declared the ball unplayable, replaced it on the green and then made the putt! He would have been hard pressed to make it up and down from off the green! Pays to know the rules!

[spinningwedge]

Thanks Kev, right, it's not the declaring of the lost ball that puts the provisional in play, it's actually hitting it.....