Golf is Still an Elitist Sport

[Marrrk]

Let me also add one last point then Ill shut up.

 

What other sport do you the average joe have the opportunity to go and play on the same hollowed ground that many of the games greats have walked and played on? That in its self is worth some extra $$

 

I would love to have had the chance to play a hockey game at Boston Garden or Joe Louis arena but since I was not a pro I will never get that chance yet we all have the opportunity to go play courses that have hosted majors. To me that is not elitist the pricing maybe but the opportunity definatley not.

 

this is exactly what i wanted to say. good call.

 

sure, i wish everything in the world was cheaper, but at least i can play on the same courses as the pros in many cases. and lets get real, keeping a golf course at a PGA playing level is hella-expensive. sure, anyone can join a softball league for a few bucks and hit the local sandlot, just like anyone can grab a few used clubs and head to the local muni. plenty of golf of all kinds out there.

[golfortennis]

Something else to add - sometimes the price has more to do with keeping you away and not the actual cost. Pebble is what is and because of where it is charges that much. Some clubs charge HIGH prices so that it keeps the masses away from playing it

 

 

Very true. There was a thread recently on another board about the guest fees charged at some clubs in Toronto, and one poster said it best: those clubs are not interested in having guests coming in to play. The course is for the members to enjoy. That can be interpreted several ways, but the basic point remains.

[Zurbert82]

I'd make an argument that private country clubs ARE elitist, not necessarily expensive public or semi private courses.

[SwingLikeElk]

Golf is not an elitist sport it is an "expensive game."

 

 

Exactly. Expensive? yes...at times. Elitist? No. It's people that make golf elitist, not greens fees. Is someone who was born with a silver spoon in mouth and handed a club membership at 18 any more elitist than the guy who worked his way up from nothing and playes Pebble Beach 6 times a year?

 

It's all in the attitude of the person. Some millionaires give nothing to charity and are rude to everyone. Others are compassionate and know where they came from. Both can afford $400 greens fees.

[SwingLikeElk]

I'd make an argument that private country clubs ARE elitist, not necessarily expensive public or semi private courses.

 

 

Why? Does someone with more expendable cash than someone else make them elitist? Rubbish.

[Marrrk]

amazing the mileage the word "elitist" has gotten in the past decade.

[mat562]

amazing the mileage the word "elitist" has gotten in the past decade.

 

Probably because they sell so many golf balls... :rolleyes:

[golfortennis]

Perhaps elitist was the wrong term and I stand corrected. :-) Luxury is a much better term. Thank you.

 

Not sour grapes either, I'd just like to see the average person get a chance to play those courses. I'd also like to see a family of four be able to afford to go to a professional baseball game. I'd also like to see those people that run AIG, Lehman, etc., go to prison so we tax payers wouldn't have to keep footing the bill. I'd also like to see the 5 million children in the US who go to bed hungry each night get some food. That's not sour grapes. It's wishing everyone well.

 

Then again, it seems like these days one can't say anything without some people getting defensive.

 

People aren't getting defensive, just pointing out the flaws in your statement, such as I am about to do with the bolded text.

 

I'll use Detroit's example, since I'm most familiar, and I'm not even talking about deals. Detroit has lots of seats for $15 or less. So a family of 4 is spending $60 on tickets. Frankly that is not very much for a night out. I would spot $10 parking, but they are likely to drop that going to most things. Beyond that, they are not forced to spend a dime. Eat before or after the game. I never got a cap when I went to games as a kid, and I wasn't ruined...

 

The point is, a family of four can very easily afford to go a ball game. It's how they choose to treat a ball game that makes it seem expensive. When you tack on all the other things, it gets pricey, but the question is, who had a gun to their head to spend that money? Tickets are all you *need* to go to a ball game.

 

Talking about better seats, or all the programs and merchandise, etc points back to the entitlement mentality others have mentioned.

[puttputty]

And........... your point is..................?

 

You DON'T HAVE TO play golf. Just think - if you didn't play - look at all the money you might in your pocket!

 

You can take up other sports and be done with it.

 

Nobody is saying that it is NOT en elitist sport. It is. It always has been - after all - you have to have a whole set of clubs and bag and such to even get started.

 

There are plenty of other sports that are also very elitist that MOST people can't afford to play, except to do it once in their whole lifetime.

And that's actually OK.

I'm not asking to let somebody let me go skeet shooting every weekend with them.

I'm not going to all of a sudden trying to take up Polo with my own horse just so I can ride in a Polo team. Way out of my league.

I wish I could take part in the America's Cup and race boats but I can barely afford to pay for my next round. I can't even afford to buy a small boat of my own to enjoy on the weekends!

I wish I could be a NASCAR driver! I can barely afford 1 car, let alone a sports car!

I could play tennis - and I do, sometimes, for exercise.

 

Know what I mean?

[InTheHole]

The point is, a family of four can very easily afford to go a ball game. It's how they choose to treat a ball game that makes it seem expensive. When you tack on all the other things, it gets pricey, but the question is, who had a gun to their head to spend that money? Tickets are all you *need* to go to a ball game.

 

Talking about better seats, or all the programs and merchandise, etc points back to the entitlement mentality others have mentioned.

 

Dude, in the market I live in (NY) you can't touch a game for a family of four for under $600 for the day. And that's not great seats by any stretch.

 

I would question that tickets are all you **need**... it's 2-3 hours to get to the stadium, with traffic. Even if you eat before teh game, the family has to eat again at some point. Ever try to eat in NY? Guess what- that $8.50 hot dog in the stadium is the cheap way out... go to a restaurant near the stadium, forgetaboutit. And I challenge you to look your 10 year old in the face and tell him he can't get something in the stadium gift shop. You spent all that money on the day and you're not gonna let your kid get a souvenir? And heck, tolls from NJ to NY, probably $30 round trip. With gas prices, add another $30.

 

If you're a sports fan, you are way better off investing in a wide screen high def TV with surround sound, and a good cable package, then game tickets.

 

I'm not arguing with anyone, my point is that it's all relative and you can't answer general statements with specific examples.

[devlbasher]

truthfully, a couple of people touched on this, but this is the truth. Please think about this before responding...

 

If it cost $60 to walk Augusta National, how many years in advance would you have to make a tee time? Who WOULDN'T go play it?! And can you even IMAGINE what kind of shape the course would be in? You can call me elitest if you like, but the bottom line is, the less expensive a place is to play, the more "inexperienced" players you will have...players who don't know to fix their ballmarks and divot, players who don't think twice if they drag their feet on the greens. I'm not a jerk about it, but there are SOOOOOOOOOO many people who wouldn't treat a course like that well enough for it to remain the kind of course it is, and retain the prestige it has already garnered. Even as it relates to Pebble Beach...how many people would flood that place if it was dirt cheap to play? EVERYONE would do it. Thats why these places are more expensive...they price themselves to the amount of people they want to play there, and the level of golfer they are trying to attract.

[Zurbert82]

I'd make an argument that private country clubs ARE elitist, not necessarily expensive public or semi private courses.

 

 

Why? Does someone with more expendable cash than someone else make them elitist? Rubbish.

 

I didn't say it was about how much cash one has. A lot of country clubs have invite only policies which is largely based on who you know, personal/business connections, and review by a membership committee, not necessarily how much money you can throw at them. Most places have waiting lists of at least 1 to 5 years. I'm largely basing this on Fairfield County, CT which has a specific demographic and a plethora of exclusive clubs. It isn't exactly a domain for public courses. I'm not throwing a blanket over all country clubs with this opinion, but don't deny that at least some country clubs are not 'elitist'.

[golfortennis]

If you're a sports fan, you are way better off investing in a wide screen high def TV with surround sound, and a good cable package, then game tickets.

 

Now this we agree on!

[Blues Golfer]

I think elite courses, expensive courses, famous courses, whatever you want to call them...should charge by handicap. Players with no handicap pay the most, and each 5 index points down is a discount, down to about 75 bucks for a plus handicap to play Pebble Beach, Sawgrass, wherever.

 

USGA handicaps only please.

 

Now THAT is elitist. Or a merit system, depending on how you look at it.

 

Some clubs don't let you join unless you are a 15 or less handicap. If I could afford to join one of those, I most certainly would. How's that for a contradiction? The only two clubs I know of that limit membership by handicap, I can't afford to join.

[joe68odessa]

The point is, a family of four can very easily afford to go a ball game. It's how they choose to treat a ball game that makes it seem expensive. When you tack on all the other things, it gets pricey, but the question is, who had a gun to their head to spend that money? Tickets are all you *need* to go to a ball game.

 

Talking about better seats, or all the programs and merchandise, etc points back to the entitlement mentality others have mentioned.

 

Dude, in the market I live in (NY) you can't touch a game for a family of four for under $600 for the day. And that's not great seats by any stretch.

 

I would question that tickets are all you **need**... it's 2-3 hours to get to the stadium, with traffic. Even if you eat before teh game, the family has to eat again at some point. Ever try to eat in NY? Guess what- that $8.50 hot dog in the stadium is the cheap way out... go to a restaurant near the stadium, forgetaboutit. And I challenge you to look your 10 year old in the face and tell him he can't get something in the stadium gift shop. You spent all that money on the day and you're not gonna let your kid get a souvenir? And heck, tolls from NJ to NY, probably $30 round trip. With gas prices, add another $30.

 

If you're a sports fan, you are way better off investing in a wide screen high def TV with surround sound, and a good cable package, then game tickets.

 

I'm not arguing with anyone, my point is that it's all relative and you can't answer general statements with specific examples.

 

 

 

Good God NY is EXPENSIVE!!! Here in Tampa, the Rays have seats for $5 each, lol

[blueshabit]

I hope it stays elitist. Otherwise, where are you going to find the guys, laid out in $500 in logo golf attire, with a staff bag full of blades, talking the whole round about Sawgrass, Pebble and Pinehurst, claiming they're a 5, on the way to chopping out an 85?

[mont86]

Dude, in the market I live in (NY) you can't touch a game for a family of four for under $600 for the day. And that's not great seats by any stretch.

 

I would question that tickets are all you **need**... it's 2-3 hours to get to the stadium, with traffic. Even if you eat before teh game, the family has to eat again at some point. Ever try to eat in NY? Guess what- that $8.50 hot dog in the stadium is the cheap way out... go to a restaurant near the stadium, forgetaboutit. And I challenge you to look your 10 year old in the face and tell him he can't get something in the stadium gift shop. You spent all that money on the day and you're not gonna let your kid get a souvenir? And heck, tolls from NJ to NY, probably $30 round trip. With gas prices, add another $30.

 

If you're a sports fan, you are way better off investing in a wide screen high def TV with surround sound, and a good cable package, then game tickets.

 

I'm not arguing with anyone, my point is that it's all relative and you can't answer general statements with specific examples.

 

Being from the mid-west this is interesting perspective. Thats alot of cash for an afternoon.

[Tmiller72]

I've just emailed Augusta National asking if us average Joe's could come out and get a twilight walking rate during the week. I'll let you know what they say.

[mat562]

I've just emailed Augusta National asking if us average Joe's could come out and get a twilight walking rate during the week. I'll let you know what they say.

 

You beat me to it.

 

Can you ask them if it's okay to bring my dogs along when I play? I could also do with knowing if the ponds in front of 15 and 16 have got that blue dye in them; it'll play havoc with their coats when they dive in after the turtles...

[Tmiller72]

They got back to me already! We can get on after 6pm for $500,000!! Pull cart rental will be $1000 and caddies will be $2000. See golf isn't an elitist sport.

 

Sorry, no dogs.

[mat562]

Bah.

 

I supose I could economise by not having a pull cart and using my regular caddy who has black and tan hair and charges a bit less than two grand. A juicy bone or a bit of chicken usually does him. With those white overalls on the only clue is that he's only about 27" tall.

 

He's crap at reading greens and isn't brilliant on yardages but he doesn't hang about - and we won't be accused of slow play. If I get hold of a fluffy rabbit toy, duct taped onto the top of a radio-controlled car, I reckon we could get round the back nine in about thirty minutes...

[RWK]

Don't kid yourself, sure we average Joe's can play golf, but if we want to play a "famous" course we will pay a premium price.

 

Courses that are famous should be available to the general golfer. I read recently that Pebble Beach charges $94.00 for a dozen ProV's and $22.95 a sleeve, not to mention the prohibitive and outrageous green fees.

 

For many of us greens fees over $80 are cost prohibitive. I play muni courses because the fancy ones are beyond my reach (as a counselor to severely emotionally and behaviorally disturbed teens in the inner city I'm not exactly rolling in dough).

 

I'd love to play a TPC Sawgrass, etc., but...

 

Anyway, it's a shame that these types of courses aren't "available" to the general public.

 

Just my opinion.

 

 

Thought it was time for this old whine to come up again. Why is it that 'everything' should be available to everyone? I fancy a Bentley but drive a VW and recognise that I will have to up the income if I want to change. Private clubs exist and are paid for by those who want to retain their standards, and for that privilage they pay heavily. If you want to play such a course be prepared to pay the rate to join, if you cannot afford it stop complaining and get a better job.

[finalist]

truthfully, a couple of people touched on this, but this is the truth. Please think about this before responding...

 

If it cost $60 to walk Augusta National, how many years in advance would you have to make a tee time? Who WOULDN'T go play it?! And can you even IMAGINE what kind of shape the course would be in? You can call me elitest if you like, but the bottom line is, the less expensive a place is to play, the more "inexperienced" players you will have...players who don't know to fix their ballmarks and divot, players who don't think twice if they drag their feet on the greens. I'm not a jerk about it, but there are SOOOOOOOOOO many people who wouldn't treat a course like that well enough for it to remain the kind of course it is, and retain the prestige it has already garnered. Even as it relates to Pebble Beach...how many people would flood that place if it was dirt cheap to play? EVERYONE would do it. Thats why these places are more expensive...they price themselves to the amount of people they want to play there, and the level of golfer they are trying to attract.

 

This theory is the Disneyland price point... Disneyland keeps tickets costly to keep

"unwanted" people out. You don't see too many gang bangers with Mickey Mouse ears on.

[stage1350]

[Chanucy] I don't know what the fuss is about. By hiring actual people to hold lanterns on our course instead of using lawn jockeys, we are helping to reduce the unemployment rate in this country.

 

Pass me another $100 bill so that I can light my cigar. [/Chauncy]

[Sean2]

Don't kid yourself, sure we average Joe's can play golf, but if we want to play a "famous" course we will pay a premium price.

 

Courses that are famous should be available to the general golfer. I read recently that Pebble Beach charges $94.00 for a dozen ProV's and $22.95 a sleeve, not to mention the prohibitive and outrageous green fees.

 

For many of us greens fees over $80 are cost prohibitive. I play muni courses because the fancy ones are beyond my reach (as a counselor to severely emotionally and behaviorally disturbed teens in the inner city I'm not exactly rolling in dough).

 

I'd love to play a TPC Sawgrass, etc., but...

 

Anyway, it's a shame that these types of courses aren't "available" to the general public.

 

Just my opinion.

 

 

Thought it was time for this old whine to come up again. Why is it that 'everything' should be available to everyone? I fancy a Bentley but drive a VW and recognise that I will have to up the income if I want to change. Private clubs exist and are paid for by those who want to retain their standards, and for that privilage they pay heavily. If you want to play such a course be prepared to pay the rate to join, if you cannot afford it stop complaining and get a better job.

I'm not complaining. I just stated an opinion. A lot more people play golf than drive Bentley's. You can disagree. No problem. Just be more polite about it.

[jeromeo1986]

i'm from toronto and i saw the red sox come play for $9 last night. plus the jays had 7 strike outs so the whole stadium got a free slice of pizza. ain't living in a team that can't contend great!

 

p.s

 

the A.L east is so unfair to the jays! first n.y, then boston now tampa!