Sevam's swing theory discussion thread

[KevCarter]

Also,I think the rolling of the left inside foot as in frames 3&4, is critical in helping to load the right side.

And don't forget the waggle!

 

Does the rolling of the left foot assist him in loading into his right side, or does the loading into the right side cause his foot to roll?

 

Kevin

[Squish]

Also,I think the rolling of the left inside foot as in frames 3&4, is critical in helping to load the right side.

And don't forget the waggle!

 

Does the rolling of the left foot assist him in loading into his right side, or does the loading into the right side cause his foot to roll?

 

Kevin

 

The rolling in compresses the left side to keep the butt back. It maintains the forward incline to the ball that was set at address.

If Hogan were to stand up from there, the shoulders would turn level.

 

The foot, leg , hip action, control the shoulder plane. Through flexing of the knee.

Did the turn flex the knee? I don't think so.

[darpar]

Also,I think the rolling of the left inside foot as in frames 3&4, is critical in helping to load the right side.

And don't forget the waggle!

 

Does the rolling of the left foot assist him in loading into his right side, or does the loading into the right side cause his foot to roll?

 

Kevin

 

Hogan claimed,'The body and the legs moved the feet'.

 

For me personally,I tend to roll the left foot a bit to get more on the right side.

[sevam1]

Also,I think the rolling of the left inside foot as in frames 3&4, is critical in helping to load the right side.

And don't forget the waggle!

 

Does the rolling of the left foot assist him in loading into his right side, or does the loading into the right side cause his foot to roll?

 

Kevin

 

The rolling in compresses the left side to keep the butt back. It maintains the forward incline to the ball that was set at address.

If Hogan were to stand up from there, the shoulders would turn level.

 

The foot, leg , hip action, control the shoulder plane.

The shoulders adduct and abduct as the Wrists, elbows shoulders control the club.

 

Squish is correct. Remember I did the video on part 2 of the move about the effect of clockwise resistance in the left foot in and through transition. The phrase I used was Resist Rise Release and Roll. The Resist is the clockwise resistance in the left foot. This goes against the natural instinct which is to reverse everything, but the hips still will open to the extent necessary with that clockwise resistance in the left foot in transition. The Rise Release and Roll are happening in sequence as the clubhead passes through the hitting area and what mass is left on the right sides is pulled awy from the ground by your turn. That clockwise resistance is a centering force what keeps you properly behind the ball even as you are moving through it. That resistance is the reason that the left hip moves sufficiently rearward intead of just sliding forward or spinning out. The stability on both the backswing and forward swing are stabilized through the connection with the ground. Get these little moves and feelings right and you will be rock solid through the ball.

 

Sevam1

[Squish]

Also,I think the rolling of the left inside foot as in frames 3&4, is critical in helping to load the right side.

And don't forget the waggle!

 

Does the rolling of the left foot assist him in loading into his right side, or does the loading into the right side cause his foot to roll?

 

Kevin

 

Hogan claimed,'The body and the legs moved the feet'.

 

For me personally,I tend to roll the left foot a bit to get more on the right side.

 

 

100% correct. The inside muscles of the leg.

 

You backshift against that roll, then release it in the slot.

This is where the clockwise rotation on the ball of the right foot increases. Not a push but rotation.

Look at that Sadlowski clip thats going around. Watch his gastrock (calf muscle) at that point in the swing.

 

To twist the foot.

To invert the foot, you must work your tibialis anterior muscle, gastrocnemius, solus muscle against your tibialis posterior tendon.

Those are the leg muscles, the foot and spikes just grab the ground.

[Titleist 3]

Ok...Stupid question....Just to be clear when you guys say screw down your right foot clockwise in the backswing do you mean this?:

 

[Dill Pickleson]

yes, that would be clockwise

[Richie3Jack]

Ok...Stupid question....Just to be clear when you guys say screw down your right foot clockwise in the backswing do you mean this?:

 

A few things:

 

1) The foot doesn't actually move, you just keep the foot in the same position and screw it into the ground with the 2 main pressure points being the ball of the foot and the heel.

 

2) I found it very easy to erroneously get the pressure on the big right toe. The pressure has to be the ball of the right foot.

 

3) Keep that pressure in the backswing. Don't lose it ONE IOTA. As Hogan wrote in 5 Lessons, the right knee should not move at all in the backswing. The torque on the inside of the right leg should be perfectly maintained. It's very easy to "lose the torque" and get the pressure over the middle of the right leg instead of on the inside of the right leg.

 

 

 

3JACK

[Titleist 3]

Ok...when you say "1) The foot doesn't actually move, you just keep the foot in the same position and screw it into the ground with the 2 main pressure points being the ball of the foot and the heel."...are you saying you make an effort to to torque the ball and heel of the right foot/inside right leg down by twisting it clockwise while executing the backswing while not actually moving the foot/knee? This torquing creates the desired pressure throughout the swing?

[kevn357]

Yes. You do it before you start the backswing. I kick my right knee in a little bit before I set it and my right leg is anchored the entire backswing. As Richie3jack said, do not get the pressure on the big toe. When I lose focus and do that I tend to push off the ground instead of into it.

[Titleist 3]

thanks 3Jack and kevn357...appreciate the clarification

[moehogan]

Sevam1,

 

Been working on Part2 of the move. During the vertical drop, I have intentionally been letting the cup in my right wrist drastically increase. I feel the weight of the club in transition assisting in this process. This really helps my right elbow drop closely to my right hip and seems to put me in a good position at the end of the arms free ride. This also gets rid of the cup in my left wrist through pressure from the right palm into the base of the left thumb.

 

However, as a "master flipper", even though it is harder, I found that I can still release a little early with the right hand from this position. Now I am working on squaring the club with the left hand by the "tripping the shaft" ala chapter 6, but sometimes do not seem to be getting enough rotation of the hands using the pincers of the left hand to accomplish this. Is turning the last two fingers of the left hand in to the left palm an acceptable way to accomplish the same thing or will this cause other problems?

 

In general, am I on the right track with this? As always, I appreciate any feedback you can provide.

 

MH

[sevam1]

Sevam1,

 

Been working on Part2 of the move. During the vertical drop, I have intentionally been letting the cup in my right wrist drastically increase. I feel the weight of the club in transition assisting in this process. This really helps my right elbow drop closely to my right hip and seems to put me in a good position at the end of the arms free ride. This also gets rid of the cup in my left wrist through pressure from the right palm into the base of the left thumb.

 

However, as a "master flipper", even though it is harder, I found that I can still release a little early with the right hand from this position. Now I am working on squaring the club with the left hand by the "tripping the shaft" ala chapter 6, but sometimes do not seem to be getting enough rotation of the hands using the pincers of the left hand to accomplish this. Is turning the last two fingers of the left hand in to the left palm an acceptable way to accomplish the same thing or will this cause other problems?

 

In general, am I on the right track with this? As always, I appreciate any feedback you can provide.

 

MH

 

I apply pressure with the left thumb and forefinger. I basically feel that rotation trying to happen and just go with it.

 

Sevam1

[Asleep]

...I can also tell from Ben Hogan's shoe that he did not have any flex grooves in his shoe. As the foot moves during your swing it bends. Without the shoe bending with the foot you lose power and stability...

Ryan

Nike Golf

I have thought about this for some time as I have small feet and am about Hogan's size. It seems to me I'd do better with a rigid soled shoe versus a softer, flexier sole. I've wanted to add width to the right side of my right shoe, especially. I've tried athletic-type golf shoes versus traditional and prefer the traditional for the support I get --- namely, Classics Tours. I thought I read somewhere that Ken Venturi put a piece of wood in/under his right shoe for practice?

 

My thinking---what could be more stable than strapping 3/4" plywood to your feet? :lol:

[psd]

Sevam1,

 

Been working on Part2 of the move. During the vertical drop, I have intentionally been letting the cup in my right wrist drastically increase. I feel the weight of the club in transition assisting in this process. This really helps my right elbow drop closely to my right hip and seems to put me in a good position at the end of the arms free ride. This also gets rid of the cup in my left wrist through pressure from the right palm into the base of the left thumb.

 

However, as a "master flipper", even though it is harder, I found that I can still release a little early with the right hand from this position. Now I am working on squaring the club with the left hand by the "tripping the shaft" ala chapter 6, but sometimes do not seem to be getting enough rotation of the hands using the pincers of the left hand to accomplish this. Is turning the last two fingers of the left hand in to the left palm an acceptable way to accomplish the same thing or will this cause other problems?

 

In general, am I on the right track with this? As always, I appreciate any feedback you can provide.

 

MH

 

I apply pressure with the left thumb and forefinger. I basically feel that rotation trying to happen and just go with it.

 

Sevam1

 

I won't be hitting golf balls outside for some time, so I'm using indoor practice to drill grip, posture, and clubhead path. How are folks learning/improving on "tripping the shaft"? What descriptions can you put forth? For example, when do you begin (eg. hands waist-level, club shaft perpendicular to target line)? Also, what motions are you performing that are conscious efforts? What fingers or palm actions in the hands vs. wrists vs. forearms?

 

For example, I use my left thumb on top of the grip, pushing/turning the grip counterclockwise, as if I were manually changing the station on a transistor radio dial wheel. If attempting to make this move when the shaft is parallel to the ground, with my hands passing my belt buckle towards the impact zone.

[tonysdivot]

Mike,

I got your ebook and downloaded Adobe 9. It will not let me open any videos for "security reasons" and I have to shut down the computer to get rid of the notice. Can you help?

Tony

[Richie3Jack]

Mike,

I got your ebook and downloaded Adobe 9. It will not let me open any videos for "security reasons" and I have to shut down the computer to get rid of the notice. Can you help?

Tony

 

I had the same problem. Just keep clicking to try and get it. It may take 3,4 or 5 times, but it would eventually work.

 

 

 

3JACK

[Richie3Jack]

...I can also tell from Ben Hogan's shoe that he did not have any flex grooves in his shoe. As the foot moves during your swing it bends. Without the shoe bending with the foot you lose power and stability...

Ryan

Nike Golf

I have thought about this for some time as I have small feet and am about Hogan's size. It seems to me I'd do better with a rigid soled shoe versus a softer, flexier sole. I've wanted to add width to the right side of my right shoe, especially. I've tried athletic-type golf shoes versus traditional and prefer the traditional for the support I get --- namely, Classics Tours. I thought I read somewhere that Ken Venturi put a piece of wood in/under his right shoe for practice?

 

My thinking---what could be more stable than strapping 3/4" plywood to your feet? :lol:

 

The problem I've found with the rigid soled shoes is that there's no traction under the ball of the foot. There are some Footjoys and Ecco's that have rigid soles and a 10 or 11 spike pattern, but there's nothing under the ball of the foot. I guess you'd have to have a lot of money and get a spike put under the ball of the foot like Hogan did :)

 

Anyway, the shoe that I thought was best was the Adidas 360 3.0 Tour or the Adidas 360 Tour Ltd. It's a 10 spike pattern and lots of traction under the ball of the foot. I'm probably going to get a pair in the next few months.

 

 

 

3JACK

[Judgepickles]

Sorry to go on about this, but just to make sure I understand tripping the shaft, this is how I am reading it...Hogan cupped his wrist on the back swing (even at address), kept it cupped until about hip high on the downswing i.e. the free ride down, then turned that cup into a bow by rotating the handle.. which squares the clubface then you just power on through impact. Are all of these moves meant to be conscious or should they happen automatically? I know that I don't cup my wrist on the backswing routinely..should I?

[juansky]

The reason why Hogan cupped his wrists was because he had a nasty hook. If you're hooking, then it might help. My understanding of the "tripping" is that it happens automatically as it should.

 

I use a flat left wrist which can be worked either way, fade/draw just by opening or closing the club face, the stance and shoulders stay the same. Keeping it simple works for me.

[sevam1]

Sorry to go on about this, but just to make sure I understand tripping the shaft, this is how I am reading it...Hogan cupped his wrist on the back swing (even at address), kept it cupped until about hip high on the downswing i.e. the free ride down, then turned that cup into a bow by rotating the handle.. which squares the clubface then you just power on through impact. Are all of these moves meant to be conscious or should they happen automatically? I know that I don't cup my wrist on the backswing routinely..should I?

 

 

Tripping the shaft is basically about the mechanics of The Secret that Hogan divulged in the 1955 Life Magazine article where he explained the cupping and bowing etc. and how this helped him eliminate the hook from his repetoire. Depending on howyou are pivoting and how you are holding the golfclub this little action may be eitherr great for you or a waste of time. The details of the pivot are far more important to get nailed down first.

 

On the downswing you should feel it trying to happen and you just help it to happen by turning the handle a hair to put the club shaft back in line with the left wrist as you move from a cupped position to a bowed position with the left hand. All you are doing is squaring the club to the arc with a little turn of the handle before the clubhead is in the hitting area.

 

Sevam1

[mul1gan]

great videos, starting to watch your stuff here. http://www.rollin.com/user/sevam1

its a little confusing but the guy asking all the question is making it more confusing for me. Plus he keeps interrupting you. I cant focus on what you are saying with all his questions. hahaha

[juansky]

For all the Hen Bogan ;) fans out there. Here are some swings in sequence, just some eye candy for the perusing golfer.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c8fKwprcp2k

[Ezgolfer]

Thanks J.

 

He punishes the ball pritty bad.

[Ezgolfer]

1969 Ben Hogan Bounce Sole +1 PW

 

 

I just bought a set of powerthrust 3-E and the bounce sole plus 1 3-E on flea bay.

[juansky]

Thanks J.

 

He punishes the ball pritty bad.

 

Oh yeah, Ben didn't hold back. Snead said he couldn't bear to watch Hogan swing because it would mess with his smooth swing, so he always looked away.

[sevam1]

1969 Ben Hogan Bounce Sole +1 PW

 

 

I just bought a set of powerthrust 3-E and the bounce sole plus 1 3-E on flea bay.

 

Shine em up and slap a little lead tape around and they will look just like my avatar.

 

Have fun! They are great clubs.

 

Sevam1

[Squish]

 

 

 

Thanks J.

 

He punishes the ball pritty bad.

 

Oh yeah, Ben didn't hold back. Snead said he couldn't bear to watch Hogan swing because it would mess with his smooth swing, so he always looked away.

[juansky]

Wow, this place is a ghost town. :butcher:

[moehogan]

Wow, this place is a ghost town. :butcher:

 

 

Too much drama in the Hogan thread! :cheesy: Now that the bad behavior has been put to bed, maybe the discussions can flow more freely here and amongst this and other threads.