pace of play question: group in front really fast

larrybud · February 23, 2009

A) I think 4:35 is really slow.

In the US, the course designs often dictate that speed. I play several courses where you spend probably 20 minutes a round just driving to the next tee box (and walking isn't even an option).

My home course is just about impossible to walk faster than 4:15 with foursome, and I can easily see spending an extra 60 seconds per hole. It's far too hilly and long, and I walk it all the time.

Buzzkill · February 23, 2009

4 hrs for 18 tops (13 min/hole) - any time longer is slow play.

sksmall · February 23, 2009

A) I think 4:35 is really slow.
B) I think you should not be forced to keep up, if they do not play golf. There is a regular foursome like that on my home course. They take drops near the spots where they lost their original ball or near the spot where it went OB. And I've never seen any one of them even try to hole a putt of more than 8 feet. That's obviously their gimmie range. But they always rush around the course as if being chased by a T-Rex. Now, I like playing fast, but I still think you should play golf at the same time. The pace of play should not be determined by people who play some other game with golf clubs on a golf course.

I agree 100%! On point B, that's an excellent point. We have a few like that at our course, and they make others look 'slow' when they really aren't. If you play by the rules, you WILL play slower than a group like mentioned above. No way around it. So who's in the wrong? Answer - nobody. They're playing their way, you're playing yours. But the group playing by the rules shouldn't feel like they have to change to keep up.

Also, the post about the course design - spot on! Played a new course recently, my GOD! Would have taken over 5 hours to walk just because of the distance from green to tee, no matter what you did.

mrb · February 25, 2009

The game of golf is played behind the group in front of you, not in front of the group behind you. The expectation is that you keep up, regardless of the pace.

Jim

This is probably one of the most ignorant, short sided statements I've ever seen on this board, and that's saying something, becuase there is a lot to choose from.

Are you insinuating that my foursome should keep pace with the group in front of me, regardless of their pace? So, if there's a single or a two-some up front, my foursome is expected to match their pace? That isn't gonna happen.

I think you need to be concious of both sides, those in front, and those in back. If you're holding up the group behind you, you should definitely find a way to get them a chance to pass you. But, if you are keeping pace with the group in front, and there is not sufficient space to let someone play through, then so be it.

Much like the driving analogy made by the guy doing 55 in the fast lane...what's the point of letting someone pass you, cut in front of you if they will only be stuck doing 55 becuase that's what the traffic dictates as the pace.

MizunoManMP · February 25, 2009

wow a sub two hour round of golf is slow for you guys? i would kill to have my rounds finish in less than three! i find it hard to believe that a foursome can finish a full round of golf in almost an hour while respecting all the etiquette rules and not riding a cart.....

not that i'm that guy that doesn't let people through when they are faster, it just seems almost impossible if you ask me :)

sigmapete1 · February 25, 2009

Now I get annoyed like everyone else when its REALLY slow, or when the 4 some in front all drives (or walks) to each players shot, watches them hit, then moves to the next one. BUT, a 2 hour round??!! Whats the obsession with finishing so fast? A two hour round sounds HORRIBLE to me unless I'm on an exec course or a par 3 course. Where's the enjoyment of the course, good friends, and being outdoors?

Golf is like sex, the longer I spend doing it, the happier I am.

larrybud · February 25, 2009

I'm sorry, but stating absolute times for a variety of courses is insane. You have no idea if the person is talking about a 5900 flat muni with 2 bunkers and 1 little pond, and 25 yards between green and next tee, or a monster 7200 yard, trouble on 12 of the 18 holes, and huge elevation changes, and 200 yards between green and the next tee.

Pretty ridiculous to think that one can walk or ride both courses in the same amount of time, let alone add in all the golf swings.

My home course is the latter, and my FASTEST playing as a single WALKING is just under 2:45, with nobody in front of me. You just can't lug the bag that fast on this course. My foursomes usually play in 4:15-4:30.

However, I play the flat muni with 3 80 year old guys, 2 ride, and the other carries, and we get around on a Saturday morning with a semi crowd under 4 hours. Play that course in 4:30 and you're waiting every single shot. Play the harder course in 4:30 and it's a decent pace.

There's a reason that it's usually called PACE of play, and not SPEED of play. The speed is absoute time, the pace is the rhythm of the round. IMO, it's better to have a good PACE, where you're not waiting, even though the entire round may take longer because of the length of the course.

jjj912 · February 25, 2009

I'm sorry, but stating absolute times for a variety of courses is insane. You have no idea if the person is talking about a 5900 flat muni with 2 bunkers and 1 little pond, and 25 yards between green and next tee, or a monster 7200 yard, trouble on 12 of the 18 holes, and huge elevation changes, and 200 yards between green and the next tee.

Pretty ridiculous to think that one can walk or ride both courses in the same amount of time, let alone add in all the golf swings.

My home course is the latter, and my FASTEST playing as a single WALKING is just under 2:45, with nobody in front of me. You just can't lug the bag that fast on this course. My foursomes usually play in 4:15-4:30.

However, I play the flat muni with 3 80 year old guys, 2 ride, and the other carries, and we get around on a Saturday morning with a semi crowd under 4 hours. Play that course in 4:30 and you're waiting every single shot. Play the harder course in 4:30 and it's a decent pace.

Very well said. :good:

To some extent pace of play is a philosophical problem. One golfer says "I paid good money to play here and I don't want to feel rushed." The other golfer says "I paid good money to play here and I don't want to wait." Obviously, these two ideas about pace of play are incompatible.

I've found that letting the group behind play through is vastly harder to do in reality than it is here on the internet.

highergr0und · February 25, 2009

I played my first sub 4 hour round in a long time two weeks ago (actually about 3:10 with 2 players). I had forgotten how wonderful it is. I had time to swing by the golf shop on the way home to look around, and still got praise from the wife for getting home so early. She's used to my being gone for 5 hours or so. My muni is notoriously slow and full of "athletes" who mainly look at golf as the excuse to drink during the day while waiting for the next football season to start. It's also only $25 with cart on the weekends, so I don't expect the world.

If I'm behind a fast group, I try my best to fall no more than 1.5 shots behind, ie they're walking up to the green as we're teeing off. I do like to stay on the same hole. Sometimes that's just not possible with my group though and we do the best we can. As long as we're in the 4:00-4:15 window, I don't care. That's the generally accepted speed of play, and everyone behind me can suck it. We don't spend forever looking for balls or goofing off. We're just not that good (I'm the only on who consistently breaks 100). We have a right to be out there. Work on your mental game, or tee off at first light so you can tear through the place as fast as you want.