Which would you choose - price not a factor - Help a fellow golfer out!

[BlackDiamondPar5]

[quote name='bytehoven' post='1911139' date='Aug 24 2009, 02:50 PM'][quote name='phil75070' post='1911005' date='Aug 24 2009, 01:43 PM']What makes you think that every other golf GPS provider out there uses Google Earth? They are not the only source of satellite imagery; there are a numebr of others which can be and are used with resolutions well under the .5 meter range. That is resolution to within less than 2 feet.

I think higher accuracy by walking the course is a myth that is being sustained by SkyGolf to justify their annual fees. At the time the first SkyGolf products were introduced, there was little to no commercial satellite imagery available and they had no other option but to map courses using GPS surveying equipment. If they were starting up today I think SkyGolf would be using aerial/satellite imagery like everybody else.

Just my opinion.[/quote]


+1

I was able to compare the uPro with a Garmin Logix 8 and SkyCaddie 2.5 on several courses, and the max variation was 2-3 yards and usually was to the front/back with distances to the middle being the same or +/- 1 yard.

The subscription fee paradigm is doomed. Now that two major players offer a fee less alternative in the Garmin G5 and uPro Basic Mode, how long before Sky Caddie comes around.

It would be interesting to see how market share is changing between the various players.
[/quote]

I concur. I've compared my golf guru to my friends sg5 on a couple of courses and have never found them to be different than 1-2 yards. And to Philis point that Google Earth isn't the only source of satellite/aerial imagery is 100% correct. For example check out products by Pictometry International. The bottom line is that if the mapping is done properly it doesn't matter if you walk the course or do it by aerial imagery.

[buckshift]

I know everyone loves skycaddie but the Garmin Golflogix is cheaper and does the same thing

[Howie]

[quote name='buckshift' post='1916385' date='Aug 26 2009, 09:00 PM']I know everyone loves skycaddie but the Garmin Golflogix is cheaper and does the same thing[/quote]

Their website indicates up to 6 hazards and lay-up distances per hole... is this enough?

[sidewinder]

[quote name='buckshift' post='1916385' date='Aug 26 2009, 06:00 PM']I know everyone loves skycaddie but the Garmin Golflogix is cheaper and does the same thing[/quote]
If you think the Garmin Golflogix does the same thing as a SkyCaddie, by all means, but the Golflogix. As far as I am concerned, there is no comparison. There are several units I would rather have than the Garmin Golflogix. Several are from SkyGolf.....

S-

[mickw]

[quote name='Howie' post='1911040' date='Aug 24 2009, 02:02 PM'][quote name='phil75070' post='1911005' date='Aug 24 2009, 01:43 PM'][quote name='sidewinder' post='1910003' date='Aug 23 2009, 10:01 PM'][quote name='Howie' post='1909975' date='Aug 23 2009, 07:49 PM'][quote name='TM_HOYER' post='1891265' date='Aug 16 2009, 11:56 AM']The Skycaddie SG5 is hands down the best GPS range finder. The professional measuring of the course makes a huge difference. Well worth the yearly fee. A technogeek (of which I am one) using Google maps to come up with distances is no way as accurate. ...Satellite maps cannot give you that kind of information.[/quote]

Interesting observation. So the yardages found in other GPS units, like the GolfGuru, aren't as accurate as those provided by the Skycaddie?
[/quote]
Howie,

Absolutely correct! Have you looked at the resolution of the satellite images one can find on Google Earth? Even at the highest resolutions there is a lot of room for error human when using them to map golf courses.

S-
[/quote]

What makes you think that every other golf GPS provider out there uses Google Earth? They are not the only source of satellite imagery; there are a numebr of others which can be and are used with resolutions well under the .5 meter range. That is resolution to within less than 2 feet.

I think higher accuracy by walking the course is a myth that is being sustained by SkyGolf to justify their annual fees. At the time the first SkyGolf products were introduced, there was little to no commercial satellite imagery available and they had no other option but to map courses using GPS surveying equipment. If they were starting up today I think SkyGolf would be using aerial/satellite imagery like everybody else.

Just my opinion.
[/quote]

As a Golf Guru owner I will note the following (and this, combined with the above post regarding the purported SkyCaddie accuracy, prompted my question)-- I have found on a number of occasions this summer the green readings on the Golf Guru are several yards off. I have discovered this while shooting my laser gun at a back pin position, only to find the distance to the pin is greater than the back of the green reading on the Golf Guru (even moving the dynamic pin placement around to various spots on the very back of the graphical representation of the green).

I wonder if the SkyCaddie suffers a similar level of inaccuracy or are they all victims of the imprecisions associated with GPS technology (I don't know the +/- error attributable)?
[/quote]

When using GPS for golf course management purposes, I think a few things need to be remembered. If you have some knowledge about gps and how it works, you understand that the WAAS capability which powers the gps tracking devices(garmin, skycaddie, etc.) is limited to +/- 3 yards for each measured location. With two locations for each measurement (A. where you are hitting from and B. where you are hitting to), that is a +/- of 6 yards...BEST case scenario. Also remember, depending on other factors (weather, location reception, initial marking reliability, etc.) it can be more than that. Taking this into consideration, no GPS device is fault free...that's just a fact of the technology being used to get the information. Now whether or not one company's methods of obtaining measured locations is better than another's...that is definitely up for debate.

[kenegan]

My take on the GPS debate:

I have used a Sky Caddie-4 for 2 years now an will be replacing it soon. I just hate the awkward computer hookup system it has.

I rely on my GPS because of the confidence it gives me, especially on shots to the green where the pin is behind a bunker or my lie dictates that I must land the ball in a certain spot so as to compensate for the contour of the green. The point is, GPS suits my game ( I play to a 7 handicap). Rarely do I just aim directly at the pin. I get my pin location info from the flag color or from the Pin location sheet you get at the pro shop. The GPS gives me the front center and back distance (no need for a lazer). I much prefer getting on the green and two putting or making a long birdie putt. In my experience I'm just as likely to be close to the pin as when I really "go for the flag". Really, how often can you make a perfect shot anyway? Playing it safe and avoiding big mistakes has improved my scores much more that being aggressive and really going pin hunting.

My gripes with the sg4 Sky Caddie center around my desire to keep the unit in my golf bag at the golf course not on my desktop...charging. My next unit will have removable (rechargeable) batteries. Really, who cares if you have to pop in some fresh batteries during a round...at least the thing won't be dead.

I also do not like to have to constantly download different groups of courses to be able to use the thing on whichever course I plan to play....my unit holds just 10. Maybe I don't even know what course I'll play because I'm on a road trip. My next GPS unit will definably be able to hold a LOT of courses.

I believe that there will some shake-up in the golf GPS industry in the near term. Some of the curent venders will either be too small or undercapitalized to keep up the advertising and product development needed to stay in business. My next GPS unit will definably be from an established vender. Hopefully they will be able to provide firmware updates with new features. My next GPS unit will have th capacity to add many new features.

My last comment concerns the belief by some that walking a course and taking readings is inherently better than using modern mapping technology. After all the guy walking the course is holding a GPS unit that is using the same satellites and the data is subject a margin of error of +/- 3 yards! Therefore, my next GPS unit dose not have to be a SkyCaddie to be accurate enough to play good golf.

Where an I going with all of this? Right now, IMO, the unit that best meets my needs is the Garmin G5. It has the company backing, ruggedness, massive memory and processing power for new firmware features. On top of that, 9000+ free courses (and more coming) all at your fingertips and IN my golf bag not at home on my desk.

[sidewinder]

[quote name='kenegan' post='1916860' date='Aug 26 2009, 10:14 PM']I have used a Sky Caddie-4 for 2 years now an will be replacing it soon. I just hate the awkward computer hookup system it has.

My gripes with the sg4 Sky Caddie center around my desire to keep the unit in my golf bag at the golf course not on my desktop...charging. My next unit will have removable (rechargeable) batteries. Really, who cares if you have to pop in some fresh batteries during a round...at least the thing won't be dead.[/quote]

Awkward????? You certainly don't have hook up your SkyCaddie to your computer to charge it. You can use a wall charger or get a car charger. Also, in the case of the SkyCaddie SG5, I prefer the longer lasting built-in battery to AA or AAA batteries. Alkaline batteries cost too much and rechargeable batteries don't last all that long and they are a hassle. I know because I have many devices that I use them in. The battery in the SG5 is user replaceable too. I played a 6 hour round, a Men's Club tournament, and the charge bar indicated less than half of the charge was used. How hard is it to plug your GPS into a wall, a car power outlet, or your computer anyway?

[quote name='kenegan' post='1916860' date='Aug 26 2009, 10:14 PM']I also do not like to have to constantly download different groups of courses to be able to use the thing on whichever course I plan to play....my unit holds just 10. Maybe I don't even know what course I'll play because I'm on a road trip. My next GPS unit will definably be able to hold a LOT of courses.[/quote]

Constantly??? Exaggeration does not help your argument. How many courses did you play at last year? When your were on the road, did you have a laptop with you? My SG5 will hold 20 courses. That's about twice as many as I played in the last year. If you play more, then maybe the SkyCaddie devices are a bad choice for you. But I doubt this is as big an issue as you make it out to be.

[quote name='kenegan' post='1916860' date='Aug 26 2009, 10:14 PM']I believe that there will some shake-up in the golf GPS industry in the near term. Some of the curent venders will either be too small or undercapitalized to keep up the advertising and product development needed to stay in business. My next GPS unit will definably be from an established vender. Hopefully they will be able to provide firmware updates with new features. My next GPS unit will have th capacity to add many new features.[/quote]

SkyGolf is the largest player and will not be going anywhere. And they will be offering some very cool features here in the near future that will help keep them there.

[quote name='kenegan' post='1916860' date='Aug 26 2009, 10:14 PM']My last comment concerns the belief by some that walking a course and taking readings is inherently better than using modern mapping technology. After all the guy walking the course is holding a GPS unit that is using the same satellites and the data is subject a margin of error of +/- 3 yards! Therefore, my next GPS unit dose not have to be a SkyCaddie to be accurate enough to play good golf.[/quote]

While that is true for consumer grade GPS equipment, it is not the case for the equipment SkyGolf uses to map a course. So, yes, the unit we use have the +/- 3 yards issue, but the point measured to does not.

[quote name='kenegan' post='1916860' date='Aug 26 2009, 10:14 PM']Where an I going with all of this? Right now, IMO, the unit that best meets my needs is the Garmin G5. It has the company backing, ruggedness, massive memory and processing power for new firmware features. On top of that, 9000+ free courses (and more coming) all at your fingertips and IN my golf bag not at home on my desk.[/quote]

More power to you. I looked at all the top units and, for my needs, much preferred the SkyCaddie SG5 with its current feature set. When they add hole overview and green contour information they will be introducing in the near future, I will be even more convinced that the SkyCaddie SG5 is the best unit.

S-

[kenegan]

Sidewinder,

You make valid points but I bet you haven't ever used a sg4. I have a wall and a car charger. You have to hook up the computer interface cord first which allows the use of ANY other charging device. This is more of an argument against the sg4 than against the sg5 which I assume from your post can be directly charged. I don't have any complaints about how the device works on the course. As I said I'm a big GPS fan.

In a nutshell, I love having a GPS golf unit but I've been annoyed by this issue for two years. I'm keeping an open mind during the replacement research and am looking at ALL the systems in the market today (not just the newest model from the same vendor that built the unit that I now own). If I were in the market for a new car the process would be much the same. I won't be purchasing until after the first of the year when hopefully all the venders have their latest product out. If SkyCaddie turns out some new must have features that may very well tip the scale. Right now Garmin looks real good to me. They have years of GPS experience and build their own hardware. I'm guessing they are in it for the long haul and will not fall behind in the features race. SkyCaddie feels the pressure too and is slowly bending to market competition.

Ken

[toddnt]

I was also leaning towards Garmin after my SG4 bit the dust(Im Happy beacuse it was a piece of crap), but make sure they have the courses you want to play. The only GPS units that has every course Iwant to play is the U=Pro1[quote name='kenegan' post='1917128' date='Aug 27 2009, 08:41 AM']Sidewinder,

You make valid points but I bet you haven't ever used a sg4. I have a wall and a car charger. You have to hook up the computer interface cord first which allows the use of ANY other charging device. This is more of an argument against the sg4 than against the sg5 which I assume from your post can be directly charged. I don't have any complaints about how the device works on the course. As I said I'm a big GPS fan.

In a nutshell, I love having a GPS golf unit but I've been annoyed by this issue for two years. I'm keeping an open mind during the replacement research and am looking at ALL the systems in the market today (not just the newest model from the same vendor that built the unit that I now own). If I were in the market for a new car the process would be much the same. I won't be purchasing until after the first of the year when hopefully all the venders have their latest product out. If SkyCaddie turns out some new must have features that may very well tip the scale. Right now Garmin looks real good to me. They have years of GPS experience and build their own hardware. I'm guessing they are in it for the long haul and will not fall behind in the features race. SkyCaddie feels the pressure too and is slowly bending to market competition.

Ken[/quote]

[kdn333]

No reviews for OnPar? I think OnPar looks like an excellent GPS unit, with tons of features, and no membership fees or course map fees.

[golf_fanatik]

[quote name='kdn333' post='1917223' date='Aug 27 2009, 06:44 AM']No reviews for OnPar? I think OnPar looks like an excellent GPS unit, with tons of features, and no membership fees or course map fees.[/quote]

Check out for a review of the OnPar (and many of the others as well): [url="http://criticalgolf.com/golf-gps-reviews/"]http://criticalgolf.com/golf-gps-reviews/[/url]

[TM_HOYER]

[quote name='kenegan' post='1917128' date='Aug 27 2009, 08:41 AM']Sidewinder,

You make valid points but I bet you haven't ever used a sg4. I have a wall and a car charger. You have to hook up the computer interface cord first which allows the use of ANY other charging device. This is more of an argument against the sg4 than against the sg5 which I assume from your post can be directly charged. I don't have any complaints about how the device works on the course. As I said I'm a big GPS fan.

In a nutshell, I love having a GPS golf unit but I've been annoyed by this issue for two years. I'm keeping an open mind during the replacement research and am looking at ALL the systems in the market today (not just the newest model from the same vendor that built the unit that I now own). If I were in the market for a new car the process would be much the same. I won't be purchasing until after the first of the year when hopefully all the venders have their latest product out. If SkyCaddie turns out some new must have features that may very well tip the scale. Right now Garmin looks real good to me. They have years of GPS experience and build their own hardware. I'm guessing they are in it for the long haul and will not fall behind in the features race. SkyCaddie feels the pressure too and is slowly bending to market competition.

Ken[/quote]

As a former SG3 owner and current SG5 owner, I know what you are talking about with the connection to the computer. The cable was a major pain to connect to the SG3 and SG4. But company to take to task for that connection is Magellan, not Skycaddie. They bought the hardware from Magellan and that is the cable connection they built into the units. And that connection is one of the reasons I upgraded to the SG5.

When I mentioned my dislike of that connection on the SG3 to a Skycaddie rep, he explained that the current supplier the units Skycaddie uses requires a minimum number of units to be bought. At the time, they were not selling enough units to meet the minimum so they had to buy from Megellan. As soon as the Skycaddie became popular enough they could sell enough units to reach the minimum, they switched to the current units.

Also the SG5 is much better to read than the SG3/4. The glasses my eye doctor prescribed for me to use while golfing are designed to focus on objects three feet or more away and reading something can be difficult. Many times I had to work to read the SG3 screen. The SG5 screen is clear and easy to read.

If you are thinking of upgrading, you will be happy with the SG5 (or the SG 3.5 which is just about to be released).

[JDub40]

My vote is for the OnPar. I have had this unit for 4 months now. They initially had some issues with the number of courses, but now have that issue solved. The features of OnPar are unmatched by any of the other devices on the market (i.e., single touch tracking and capture of all shots during a round, one touch distance from where you are to any place on a hole, ability to adjust all pins prior to your round based on pin sheet, stats tracking). I have both a SG5 & Laser. I have tested OnPar accuracy against both, and it is spot on. I can walk all the way around a green, and see the ball (your location) tracking exactly on the edge. The skycaddie walking the course stuff is a marketing ploy, and their maps don't have half the detail of several others on the market.

With this device being same upfront price, no fees, and more features than any of the rest, this is the best device on the market for serious golfers. Also, their customer service is awesome.

Good luck with your decision.

[hacker1]

Just out of curiosity, has ANYBODY ever physically seen a skycaddie rep. 'walking' their course for measurements?

[toddnt]

Does OnPar give distances to hazards?[quote name='JDub40' post='1920868' date='Aug 29 2009, 01:35 AM']My vote is for the OnPar. I have had this unit for 4 months now. They initially had some issues with the number of courses, but now have that issue solved. The features of OnPar are unmatched by any of the other devices on the market (i.e., single touch tracking and capture of all shots during a round, one touch distance from where you are to any place on a hole, ability to adjust all pins prior to your round based on pin sheet, stats tracking). I have both a SG5 & Laser. I have tested OnPar accuracy against both, and it is spot on. I can walk all the way around a green, and see the ball (your location) tracking exactly on the edge. The skycaddie walking the course stuff is a marketing ploy, and their maps don't have half the detail of several others on the market.

With this device being same upfront price, no fees, and more features than any of the rest, this is the best device on the market for serious golfers. Also, their customer service is awesome.

Good luck with your decision.[/quote]

[x100]

The onpar doesn't give any distances to hazards. Which means you have to anypoint every target you want. very time consuming on the tee box. The Garmin G5 and the upro are the 2 best by a land slide in my opinion.

[toddnt]

Good info thanks, I wish Garmin had Bandon Dunes mapped as Im leaving next week! Thal'll probably be my next purchase.[quote name='x100' post='1921920' date='Aug 29 2009, 07:28 PM']The onpar doesn't give any distances to hazards. Which means you have to anypoint every target you want. very time consuming on the tee box. The Garmin G5 and the upro are the 2 best by a land slide in my opinion.[/quote]

[JDub40]

You simply touch the screen of the OnPar next to the hazard or point where you want to measure. Also feature to mark specific points on the course for use in future rounds. This is much easier than the Callaway, and very similar to functionality of G5 (however G5 maps don't have near the detail shown on the OnPar maps).

[JDub40]

Forgot.......Bandon courses are mapped on OnPar

[golfdad907]

SG5, simply because it works great, easy to read, and they actually walk to map the courses...and update them about every two years or whenever reworked. Had mine since it came out, played with others who have differnet GPS, all like mine the best.

I do have a laser Bushnell, it's good for Par 3s and stuff, but inconvient to say the least.

[milfordj]

[quote name='JDub40' post='1923968' date='Aug 30 2009, 11:48 PM']You simply touch the screen of the OnPar next to the hazard or point where you want to measure. Also feature to mark specific points on the course for use in future rounds. This is much easier than the Callaway, and very similar to functionality of G5 (however G5 maps don't have near the detail shown on the OnPar maps).[/quote]
How many points can you map / mark on each hole? Could you mark front and back of hazards as needed, and how much trouble is it to mark points?