Tilting correctly and handpath

[iteachgolf]

Flat shoulder turn could lead to baseline too far right, underplane, pushes and hooks. I use simple checkpoints, left arm inside left shoulder at P2, left arm across chest at P3.

This would be a pretty good example of deep handpath and a rotated shoulder turn
[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vh1yL80Ptb0[/media]

[Marrrk]

iteach, this thread is great. thank you for dedicating your time. my question is about the angle of attack with driver vs. irons -- especially how to perceive it mentally.

i can do the swing you've been teaching with no problem with irons but it's a near disaster with driver. in my mind, with an iron swing, i am able to only have the one downswing thought of swinging down hard and taking a divot. whereas with driver, i'm all sorts of confused about the angle of attack -- hitting down vs hitting slightly up. it seems like it would have to be a different swing...

i dont have any videos to provide at the moment but do you have any advice for mentally how to deal with the perceived angle of attack difference with driver vs irons? for example, if i take a driver swing without a ball and just make a tiny divot, all the sudden everything feels great and comfortable. once the ball is back and on a tee... the need to feel like i'm hitting slightly up on it takes over. any advice is greatly appreciated.

[iteachgolf]

Because ball is more forward and shoulders will have more tilt the angle of attack will be shallower. Ball is struck at or near low point where an iron is more back and therefore less tilt of the shoulders and steeper angle of attack

[mvmac]

Hey Dan, how's this look?

[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=77AzI7kL3yI[/media]

[gmbtempe]

I wish I could get that little over move that you have, looks good to my very untrained eye. Like the hand path.

[johnk711]

Do you have any takeaway tips for the inside hand path? I've always had problems with feeling "stagnant" at address and not knowing how to get the whole thing moving. I literally don't know how to start my motion from swing to swing to swing. If I do it right, great shot. But more often than not I blow it.

How to move the hands in more towards the right hip without sucking the club head inside with them?

Could you lag this takeaway? Would the wrist flex when initiating the lagging takeaway be in towards the right hip?

[gmbtempe]

[quote name='johnk711' timestamp='1280459537' post='2607660']
Do you have any takeaway tips for the inside hand path? I've always had problems with feeling "stagnant" at address and not knowing how to get the whole thing moving. I literally don't know how to start my motion from swing to swing to swing. If I do it right, great shot. But more often than not I blow it.

How to move the hands in more towards the right hip without sucking the club head inside with them?

Could you lag this takeaway? Would the wrist flex when initiating the lagging takeaway be in towards the right hip?
[/quote]

Wouldnt it just be pulling the hands inside but dont rotate the forearms? It would feel very much like the right arm stays about the left and the clubface looks down at the ground for a long period of time.

[iteachgolf]

Mike, that's as good as I've seen it. P4 looks great but more impotrtantly P6 is $. Should be going lower and further? How have you been playing?

[iteachgolf]

Hands in with a later loading of pa3 or as Greg put it, no rotation of the lead arm as a feel, will keep club moving back up and in on plane.

[mvmac]

[quote name='iteachgolf' timestamp='1280463575' post='2607752']
Mike, that's as good as I've seen it. P4 looks great but more impotrtantly P6 is $. Should be going lower and further? How have you been playing?
[/quote]

Thanks Dan. Yep, very few balloon shots. Finally seeing some increased distance!! Need to get out on the course more. Too much of a range rat right now. Hope the ankle heals up soon

[mvmac]

[quote name='johnk711' timestamp='1280459537' post='2607660']
Do you have any takeaway tips for the inside hand path? I've always had problems with feeling "stagnant" at address and not knowing how to get the whole thing moving. I literally don't know how to start my motion from swing to swing to swing. If I do it right, great shot. But more often than not I blow it.

How to move the hands in more towards the right hip without sucking the club head inside with them?

Could you lag this takeaway? Would the wrist flex when initiating the lagging takeaway be in towards the right hip?
[/quote]

Just to add to other's posts. Getting the hands in with feeling no left arm rotation will keep the club head out. A feel could be moving the handle of the club first in and behind you, like you said towards the right hip, with the back of the left hand facing more towards the ground. Another feel is to keep the left arm tight across the chest.

My "start" move is to move the right shoulder back on itself and behind me. For me, this gets my hands in, shoulders turning in a circle and right leg straightening. The straightening right leg is important to get the hands in and keeping them in and not lifting. Charlie is a great example

[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tlCvFU6V-3o[/media]

[gmbtempe]

Dan,

Did you see Tiger's swing this week. Hands well outside the circle then big rotation of the left forearm flying wedge to the top...........looks really jacked up IMO.

[iteachgolf]

Haven't seen any coverage, had pretty long 2 days in a row. Doesn't surprise me though.

[bfactor]

[quote name='iteachgolf' timestamp='1281134665' post='2623354']
Haven't seen any coverage, had pretty long 2 days in a row. Doesn't surprise me though.
[/quote]
On the opposite end of the spectrum, can you share with the class how one might shoot 29 on the back side in the second round of a Nationwide event? Did Smock miss a putt somewhere that would've yielded a 28?

[iteachgolf]

[quote name='bfactor1282' timestamp='1281135066' post='2623363']
[quote name='iteachgolf' timestamp='1281134665' post='2623354']
Haven't seen any coverage, had pretty long 2 days in a row. Doesn't surprise me though.
[/quote]
On the opposite end of the spectrum, can you share with the class how one might shoot 29 on the back side in the second round of a Nationwide event? Did Smock missed a putt somewhere that would've yielded a 28?
[/quote]
Waiting for him to call me back. Hit it pretty darn good and of course rolled in a couple putts.

No video from Monday when we last were together but here is a good representation of his latest swings.
[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wbGQry-BGe0[/media]

[hammerheel]

Can you expand on keeping your hands on the circle?

[iteachgolf]

[quote name='hammerheel' timestamp='1281137960' post='2623432']
Can you expand on keeping your hands on the circle?
[/quote]
Brian can at times get too shallow and swing too far out to the right due to shoulders tilting at a much faster rate than they turn. This causes the path to be excessively in to out and leads to more curve than we desire. By keeping the arms orbiting the ribcage and the shoulders turning in a circle with rate of tilting and rotation matching club works in a circle and path becomes closer to 0.

[frank gasaway]

[quote name='iteachgolf' timestamp='1281139119' post='2623458']
[quote name='hammerheel' timestamp='1281137960' post='2623432']
Can you expand on keeping your hands on the circle?
[/quote]
Brian can at times get too shallow and swing too far out to the right due to shoulders tilting at a much faster rate than they turn. This causes the path to be excessively in to out and leads to more curve than we desire. By keeping the arms orbiting the ribcage and the shoulders turning in a circle with rate of tilting and rotation matching club works in a circle and path becomes closer to 0.
[/quote]



Funny ...... about 3 months ago I was flipping thru the TV and watch a few minutes of a NW event .... . This guy is teeing off on a par three and I see his swing. I called Nick and ask him who has has gottin a hold of Brian Smock .... he said one of the boys. Good work I wish yall all the best.

[iteachgolf]

He's having a great year. Below from PGA Tour's website.

• Smock tied the tournament's nine-hole record when he recorded the eighth 29 in tournament history Friday. He had five birdies and an eagle on Crestview Country Club's back nine on his way to a 63.

[glc3344]

[quote name='iteachgolf' timestamp='1281155254' post='2623875']
He's having a great year. Below from PGA Tour's website.

• Smock tied the tournament's nine-hole record when he recorded the eighth 29 in tournament history Friday. He had five birdies and an eagle on Crestview Country Club's back nine on his way to a 63.
[/quote]

Congrats to you and Brian! Keep up the nice work.

[Corey_sulliv21]

Dan - Ok, so how do I and my long lost twin brother mvmac finally stop the early extending from p4 to p6? What is really the cause of this from a tilting/hand path perspective?

It is really starting to drive me crazy that I can't stay on the tush line. On top of that my hips are basically square to the target line at impact? When I look at you or Charlie or Logan your hips are probably 30-40 degrees open at impact. The early extending and the ultimatel power and compression loss is maddening. I'm getting so frustrated dinking it around the golf course because I've got my hands well outside my right leg at p6 and not enough shaft lean at impact.

Please help!!! Need to put some zip on the ball for once.

[mvmac]

Hey "bro", check this drill out. Feels like you stay in abduction as you slide linear.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G66mBcy1rcA

[iteachgolf]

[quote name='Corey_sulliv21' timestamp='1281196382' post='2624414']
Dan - Ok, so how do I and my long lost twin brother mvmac finally stop the early extending from p4 to p6? What is really the cause of this from a tilting/hand path perspective?

It is really starting to drive me crazy that I can't stay on the tush line. On top of that my hips are basically square to the target line at impact? When I look at you or Charlie or Logan your hips are probably 30-40 degrees open at impact. The early extending and the ultimatel power and compression loss is maddening. I'm getting so frustrated dinking it around the golf course because I've got my hands well outside my right leg at p6 and not enough shaft lean at impact.

Please help!!! Need to put some zip on the ball for once.
[/quote]
I'd have to see but likely due to the amount of linear movement and the amount of right knee flex in downswing, also the direction the right knee flexes.

[FAbb]

Could the too flat shoulder turn also lead to hooking the ball? I definitely have a flat shoulder turn with lifted arms. Then on the downswing I stall and early extend. Unfortunately this is the only video of my swing that is online...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O2QmPIRmH58

I would say I'm even more square with my hips/shoulders at impact now than in this video. Also my shoulder turn may be a bit flatter, I'd have to compare with some video at home to be sure though. Would I benefit from getting my shoulder turn a bit steeper, and the hands in to keep the arms from being so lifted?

Thanks,
Bryan

[iteachgolf]

[quote name='bja24' timestamp='1281356918' post='2627426']
Could the too flat shoulder turn also lead to hooking the ball? I definitely have a flat shoulder turn with lifted arms. Then on the downswing I stall and early extend. Unfortunately this is the only video of my swing that is online...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O2QmPIRmH58

I would say I'm even more square with my hips/shoulders at impact now than in this video. Also my shoulder turn may be a bit flatter, I'd have to compare with some video at home to be sure though. Would I benefit from getting my shoulder turn a bit steeper, and the hands in to keep the arms from being so lifted?

Thanks,
Bryan
[/quote]
Shoulder turn in that video really isn't too bad. I'd focus more on the lower body to prevent early extension. Right knee overbends, works towards the ball pulling the right foot way off the ground. Focus on keeping the right heel down and feeling the right leg is straight and works towards the target, not towards the ball

I do think getting arms to not lift and cleaning up the pivot a little will help but work on footwork first.
[attachment=639170:Picture 1.png]

[Guest]

iteach- all I can say is WOW. and THANK YOU. I found this thread about a week ago and have been working at the range on swinging the club as you teach since then. I have gained about 10-15 yards for each club and turned a weak fade into a draw. Have not taken this to the course yet but will have a chance tomorrow. the key for me is when I get my hands started in, then the shoulder turn is much easier to complete. my ball striking has never been so consistant. I have played to a 9 handicap for about two years now. I hope this will help me take my game to a new level. Thanks again!

[233211]

I love Brian's swing nice work! is that his full swing ? cause i'm having trouble figuring out how far my backswing should be.

[iteachgolf]

Yes that is Brian's full swing.

[233211]

Is there any drills i can do to keep my hands on the circle ? i'm hitting high but long push's with a little 5 yard draw. the trouble is that they end up 5 yards right of the target if they draw, or 10-15 yards right if they dont draw, if i try start the ball on a straighter starting path i end up hooking it left, i think i'm coming to far from the inside.

I've reconstructed my swing from to much tilting forward on the backswing to centered, and i've really started to slide my hips way forward through the downswing, which is resulting in the best contact i've ever felt just a little bit off line.

I'll try post a vid asap if i get a good enough quality video cam

cheers

[iteachgolf]

post a video, too many variables to guess.