Tilting correctly and handpath

[rgmmiller93]

[quote name='moradman' post='1948438' date='Sep 13 2009, 09:44 PM']RGMmiller.... this may answer some of your questions... notice elbow locations and the changing of the tilts.

Nice work iteach. make sure she keeps that ball in her central vision to avoid possibly becoming underplane and too much cf.[/quote]

So morad man steeper shoulder turn will help with my problem?

[quote name='gmbtempe' post='1949246' date='Sep 14 2009, 06:30 AM']I was pulling a pretty cool trick at the range, I am so far to the inside right now...I set up dead open, then I opened my 5 iron like a lob wedge and hit several high draws right at the target, probably had it open forty degrees. I bet I could have taken wagers from people that I could draw it from that setup...can I take that to the course [/quote]


gmbtempe, you lucky sod! I wish I could do that I am hitting the ugliest pull fade at the moment, maybe with some steeper shoulder turn I can get there!

[gmbtempe]

[quote name='rgmmiller93' post='1949643' date='Sep 14 2009, 08:31 AM'][quote name='moradman' post='1948438' date='Sep 13 2009, 09:44 PM']RGMmiller.... this may answer some of your questions... notice elbow locations and the changing of the tilts.

Nice work iteach. make sure she keeps that ball in her central vision to avoid possibly becoming underplane and too much cf.[/quote]

So morad man steeper shoulder turn will help with my problem?

[quote name='gmbtempe' post='1949246' date='Sep 14 2009, 06:30 AM']I was pulling a pretty cool trick at the range, I am so far to the inside right now...I set up dead open, then I opened my 5 iron like a lob wedge and hit several high draws right at the target, probably had it open forty degrees. I bet I could have taken wagers from people that I could draw it from that setup...can I take that to the course [/quote]


gmbtempe, you lucky sod! I wish I could do that I am hitting the ugliest pull fade at the moment, maybe with some steeper shoulder turn I can get there!
[/quote]

the problem though is if that face gets close to square at all its hook city.........i have to get this path fixed.

[moradman]

RGMMiller.

Your case if VERY specific.

You need to go and speak to Matt and tell and talk to him.

Tell him you dont want to fade the ball, and would prefer to hit the backside of the circle.

If he persuades you otherwise, listen to his argument, it may be valid, but it may be stuff you've read on here before and you can bring up, angular momentum, pouncing cat etc etc for the reasons you want to hit a draw, backside of circle etc.

Also, make sure you KNOW for sure which pattern you are working towards. CP, CF, Inline, just make sure you know, otherwise you'll start mixing components and that can get you into trouble in the long run

[rgmmiller93]

[quote name='moradman' post='1949825' date='Sep 14 2009, 06:06 PM']RGMMiller.

Your case if VERY specific.

You need to go and speak to Matt and tell and talk to him.

Tell him you dont want to fade the ball, and would prefer to hit the backside of the circle.

If he persuades you otherwise, listen to his argument, it may be valid, but it may be stuff you've read on here before and you can bring up, angular momentum, pouncing cat etc etc for the reasons you want to hit a draw, backside of circle etc.

Also, make sure you KNOW for sure which pattern you are working towards. CP, CF, Inline, just make sure you know, otherwise you'll start mixing components and that can get you into trouble in the long run[/quote]

I will talk to him asap.

[Kerry_Bunker]

[quote name='moradman' post='1949825' date='Sep 14 2009, 01:06 PM']RGMMiller.

Your case if VERY specific.

You need to go and speak to Matt and tell and talk to him.

Tell him you dont want to fade the ball, and would prefer to hit the backside of the circle.

If he persuades you otherwise, listen to his argument, it may be valid, but it may be stuff you've read on here before and you can bring up, angular momentum, pouncing cat etc etc for the reasons you want to hit a draw, backside of circle etc.

Also, make sure you KNOW for sure which pattern you are working towards. CP, CF, Inline, just make sure you know, otherwise you'll start mixing components and that can get you into trouble in the long run[/quote]


Can you clarify MM: The front side of the circle means on the target side of low point, correct ?

If he is on-plane and taking a divot after the ball then he must be on the back side of the circle, correct ? So he can still hit fades on the backside of the circle, and swing on-plane, correct ?

[moradman]

just because your divot is after the ball, doesnt mean your hitting the backside of the circle.

And yes, you can fade it hitting the back, essentially a push fade. But with the benefits of angular momentum, further clubhead-ball distance at 6 etc etc

[jaridyard]

Bit of a grey area for me here, just because you take a divot [b]doesn't[/b] mean you've hit the backside of the circle... or you have hit the backside of the circle whose baseline is shifted left... while conversely you can't hit the backside and hit up on a driver?

[iteachgolf]

All swings caught before low point (divot after ball) would be on the backside of the circle (may be shifted left but still backside of circle).

[moradman]

For simplicites sake, those cutting it are front siding it, those drawing it are backsiding it.

there are some here who understand whats happening such as baseline shifting, handle raising etc to differ the ball flight, but I'm not so sure i would describe it like that to an average student.

[iteachgolf]

Back to the original topic. Just to show it works for kids and lefties too!
[attachment=466086:lefty.jpeg]

[Tanner25]

[quote name='iteachgolf ' post='1950744' date='Sep 14 2009, 07:52 PM']Back to the original topic. Just to show it works for kids and lefties too!
[attachment=466086:lefty.jpeg][/quote]


nice improvement iteach, it seems if you take it really inside, your left shoulder
automatically points down. Is this true? I always do poorly with two thoughts
on one side of the ball ( backswing), can I get away with finding the perfect
inside takeaway?

[iteachgolf]

[quote name='aslan' post='1950860' date='Sep 14 2009, 07:48 PM'][quote name='iteachgolf ' post='1950744' date='Sep 14 2009, 07:52 PM']Back to the original topic. Just to show it works for kids and lefties too!
[attachment=466086:lefty.jpeg][/quote]


nice improvement iteach, it seems if you take it really inside, your left shoulder
automatically points down. Is this true? I always do poorly with two thoughts
on one side of the ball ( backswing), can I get away with finding the perfect
inside takeaway?
[/quote]
the inside hand path makes tilting the shoulder left A LOT easier and for most people will instantly steepen the shoulder turn but not always.

[fanofsaosin]

wouldn't the right leg straightening help with steepening the shoulders?

[iteachgolf]

[quote name='fanofsaosin' post='1950878' date='Sep 14 2009, 07:57 PM']wouldn't the right leg straightening help with steepening the shoulders?[/quote]
yes as it allows the hips to turn on a tilted angle.

[moradman]

brilliant with the lil lefty!!

i think it works hand in hand... if someone just thinks about their left shoulder going down, they MAY not get the hand path in enough... same with someone JUST getting the hand path in may translate their head and flatten their shoulder turn..

Both pieces should work in harmony.

[stevestrike]

Not to take anything away from iteach, but I had a hell of a time with this move out at the range today. It really threw me off, the longer the club the worse the effect to the point where I couldn't even hit my 3wood anymore! If anything, my approach to the ball seemed steeper, and I had a hard time transitioning. I guess that's what I get for tinkering with my swing. I'm not sure what I missed in my interpretation, but it was lost on me.

[iteachgolf]

[quote name='stevestrike' post='1950932' date='Sep 14 2009, 08:17 PM']Not to take anything away from iteach, but I had a hell of a time with this move out at the range today. It really threw me off, the longer the club the worse the effect to the point where I couldn't even hit my 3wood anymore! If anything, my approach to the ball seemed steeper, and I had a hard time transitioning. I guess that's what I get for tinkering with my swing. I'm not sure what I missed in my interpretation, but it was lost on me.[/quote]
make sure your arms aren't lifting in the backswing. if so it will make keeping the left arm in during the downswing more difficult.

[randomhero1090]

[quote name='iteachgolf ' post='1950944' date='Sep 14 2009, 09:19 PM'][quote name='stevestrike' post='1950932' date='Sep 14 2009, 08:17 PM']Not to take anything away from iteach, but I had a hell of a time with this move out at the range today. It really threw me off, the longer the club the worse the effect to the point where I couldn't even hit my 3wood anymore! If anything, my approach to the ball seemed steeper, and I had a hard time transitioning. I guess that's what I get for tinkering with my swing. I'm not sure what I missed in my interpretation, but it was lost on me.[/quote]
make sure your arms aren't lifting in the backswing. if so it will make keeping the left arm in during the downswing more difficult.
[/quote]

Backswing is the key. The proper move from the top can't happen without being in the proper position at the top.

[stevestrike]

[quote name='iteachgolf ' post='1950944' date='Sep 14 2009, 08:19 PM']make sure your arms aren't lifting in the backswing. if so it will make keeping the left arm in during the downswing more difficult.[/quote]
I didn't think I was a lifter, but I will certainly double-check. You know, I think I've got clips of my old instructor telling me that the next move after taking the club away from the ball was to lift the arms straight up.

[iteachgolf]

[quote name='stevestrike' post='1951052' date='Sep 14 2009, 08:58 PM'][quote name='iteachgolf ' post='1950944' date='Sep 14 2009, 08:19 PM']make sure your arms aren't lifting in the backswing. if so it will make keeping the left arm in during the downswing more difficult.[/quote]
I didn't think I was a lifter, but I will certainly double-check. You know, I think I've got clips of my old instructor telling me that the next move after taking the club away from the ball was to lift the arms straight up.
[/quote]
If arms aren't lifting then you are turning to level in the downswing and not creating enough axis tilt. Hips have to move forward so spine can tilt to the right and shallow out the downswing.

[stevestrike]

I see, so the more tilt you get going back (good left tilt), you have to "make up for it" on the downswing? Someone who takes it back with too level shoulders, might also downswing with too level shoulders as well?

[iteachgolf]

[quote name='stevestrike' post='1951110' date='Sep 14 2009, 09:26 PM']I see, so the more tilt you get going back (good left tilt), you have to "make up for it" on the downswing? Someone who takes it back with too level shoulders, might also downswing with too level shoulders as well?[/quote]
No I would not say you have to make up for it. I would say all correct downswings have a linear component and in all good swing the right hip and right shoulder is lower than the left at impact. This has to be created dynamically as there is no way to make a powerful backswing with the left hip higher than the right and the right shoulder lower than the left. Too level shoulders going back will cause your head to move away from the target and the arms to lift both making it more difficult to swing on plane and get the left arm in enough on the downswing.

[Vandal]

I think Moradman hit an important concept. It's not really a chicken/egg thing with the inward hands and tilted left shoulder, although they do aide each other. I can get my shoulders too level and my hands way too inside at the same time, which means all kinds of hurt. I've been working more on steeper shoulders, which seems to help get my hands where I need them without being too inside.

Anyways, good stuff there iTeach.

[Tanner25]

[quote name='iteachgolf ' post='1950870' date='Sep 14 2009, 08:54 PM'][quote name='aslan' post='1950860' date='Sep 14 2009, 07:48 PM'][quote name='iteachgolf ' post='1950744' date='Sep 14 2009, 07:52 PM']Back to the original topic. Just to show it works for kids and lefties too!
[attachment=466086:lefty.jpeg][/quote]


nice improvement iteach, it seems if you take it really inside, your left shoulder
automatically points down. Is this true? I always do poorly with two thoughts
on one side of the ball ( backswing), can I get away with finding the perfect
inside takeaway?
[/quote]
the inside hand path makes tilting the shoulder left A LOT easier and for most people will instantly steepen the shoulder turn but not always.
[/quote]

Shldrs going left? I thought it was down.

Also, I am amd must be terribly inflexible. By taking the club inside, I tweaked my right knee.

[MikeMo]

[quote name='iteachgolf ' post='1950744' date='Sep 14 2009, 07:52 PM']Back to the original topic. Just to show it works for kids and lefties too!
[attachment=466086:lefty.jpeg][/quote]It looks as though in this group of pictures that our young gun is further away from the ball and his stance is more closed. It seems to me that this would also aid in the more in to out swing and shallower strike?

[iteachgolf]

[quote name='MikeMo' post='1952787' date='Sep 15 2009, 05:25 PM'][quote name='iteachgolf ' post='1950744' date='Sep 14 2009, 07:52 PM']Back to the original topic. Just to show it works for kids and lefties too!
[attachment=466086:lefty.jpeg][/quote]It looks as though in this group of pictures that our young gun is further away from the ball and his stance is more closed. It seems to me that this would also aid in the more in to out swing and shallower strike?
[/quote]
Helps the hands go more in and the lead shoulder tilt more and turn on a steeper angle.

[iteachgolf]

[quote name='aslan' post='1952756' date='Sep 15 2009, 05:12 PM'][quote name='iteachgolf ' post='1950870' date='Sep 14 2009, 08:54 PM'][quote name='aslan' post='1950860' date='Sep 14 2009, 07:48 PM'][quote name='iteachgolf ' post='1950744' date='Sep 14 2009, 07:52 PM']Back to the original topic. Just to show it works for kids and lefties too!
[attachment=466086:lefty.jpeg][/quote]


nice improvement iteach, it seems if you take it really inside, your left shoulder
automatically points down. Is this true? I always do poorly with two thoughts
on one side of the ball ( backswing), can I get away with finding the perfect
inside takeaway?
[/quote]
the inside hand path makes tilting the shoulder left A LOT easier and for most people will instantly steepen the shoulder turn but not always.
[/quote]

Shldrs going left? I thought it was down.

Also, I am amd must be terribly inflexible. By taking the club inside, I tweaked my right knee.
[/quote]
what were you doing with the right knee while taking the club back? Shoulders tilting left (left shoulder lower than right) is the same as down.

[Tanner25]

[quote name='iteachgolf ' post='1952953' date='Sep 15 2009, 07:39 PM'][quote name='aslan' post='1952756' date='Sep 15 2009, 05:12 PM'][quote name='iteachgolf ' post='1950870' date='Sep 14 2009, 08:54 PM'][quote name='aslan' post='1950860' date='Sep 14 2009, 07:48 PM'][quote name='iteachgolf ' post='1950744' date='Sep 14 2009, 07:52 PM']Back to the original topic. Just to show it works for kids and lefties too!
[attachment=466086:lefty.jpeg][/quote]


nice improvement iteach, it seems if you take it really inside, your left shoulder
automatically points down. Is this true? I always do poorly with two thoughts
on one side of the ball ( backswing), can I get away with finding the perfect
inside takeaway?
[/quote]
the inside hand path makes tilting the shoulder left A LOT easier and for most people will instantly steepen the shoulder turn but not always.
[/quote]

Shldrs going left? I thought it was down.

Also, I am amd must be terribly inflexible. By taking the club inside, I tweaked my right knee.
[/quote]
what were you doing with the right knee while taking the club back? Shoulders tilting left (left shoulder lower than right) is the same as down.
[/quote]

Ok, thx for clarify that

[iteachgolf]

Here is a good before and after photo from today. HUGE difference in ballflight. Shot a 38 on the back nine (was averaging around 100).

[attachment=468181:TOM_befo...nd_after.jpeg]

[iteachgolf]

Figured I'd throw up the video as well.
[url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mIzHiozhM2w"]Video from above lesson[/url]