Tilting correctly and handpath

[hayam]

Thank you I teach ,

Easily be the best thread I read this year .

[iteachgolf]

[quote name='hayam' post='1962429' date='Sep 20 2009, 06:36 PM']Thank you I teach ,

Easily be the best thread I read this year .[/quote]
Thanks! Glad I could help.

[KDMullins]

This has been a great help. Too bad it's been raining here all day. I really wanted to get out to see what this feels like.

[Kerry_Bunker]

If it feels wrong it could just be right.

[logan91201]

[quote name='Kerry_Bunker' post='1962529' date='Sep 20 2009, 07:32 PM']If it feels wrong it could just be right.[/quote]


More importantly...if it feels right...chances are you didn't change a thing

[Kerry_Bunker]

I'll never forget, Iteach told me to try and make a swing in which both my arms were dead straight and there was no wrist **** at all.

I made the most wooden, stiff armed takeaway I have ever done in my life and it felt terrible and I was sure that I was way off plane and the swing was technically not very sound.

Then we took a look at it on tape and I was blown away by how close to being correct it was it terms of being on plane, the amount of right arm bend and the amount of wrist **** that I actually achieved.

Camera doesn't lie... perception and feel can lie.

[jfzhorseman]

As a tall thin build player not that flexible, I find myself getting on my toes when making a steeper shoulder turn and end up standing up on the downswing to compensate and sticking the toe of the club in the ground. How do I over come this balance issue with a steeper backswing and sequence my downswing to clear the left hip and get to the left heel? Thanks.

[iteachgolf]

[quote name='jfzhorseman' post='1962750' date='Sep 20 2009, 09:27 PM']As a tall thin build player not that flexible, I find myself getting on my toes when making a steeper shoulder turn and end up standing up on the downswing to compensate and sticking the toe of the club in the ground. How do I over come this balance issue with a steeper backswing and sequence my downswing to clear the left hip and get to the left heel? Thanks.[/quote]
A steeper shoulder turn is not causing the balance loss. I'd have to see the swing to sure as it could be caused by many issues.

[Investorguy]

Really great thread. Now I know what to work on. It took about halfway through the thread to figure it out, but now I got it. Really good stuff here.

[mookie]

I've been making pretty good contact in the last several months--basically now, I'm trying to get more consistent. I worked hard over the past few years and have pretty much eliminated slices. My biggest problem now seems to be hooks (which I usually am able to figure out) and pushes (which I usually CAN'T figure out) with my longer clubs, including driver.

The thing is, the FIRST thing I think of when I hit one of those pushes is my backswing. I find that when I take the club too far inside--almost like the "good"/"after" pictures above, I end up either hitting those pushes or hitting it fat. The thing is, i absolutely LOVE the feeling of bringing the clubhead back on the inside as my swing feels a lot more effortless and powerful--it's just that those pushes SCARE the jujus out of me.

To combat that, my main swingthoughts have been "hands straight back" on backswing and "hands pass through the setup position" on the downswing. Again, I hit the ball pretty well, but I'm curious about WHY my inside hands on the backswing mess me up.

I DO notice though, that a lot of Slicefixer's 9-3 and other swing stuff have good players swinging on that flatter backswing as well.

W/O any video, anyone have an answer to those pushes and fat shots?

Thanks!

[iteachgolf]

[quote name='mookie' post='1964364' date='Sep 21 2009, 07:04 PM']I've been making pretty good contact in the last several months--basically now, I'm trying to get more consistent. I worked hard over the past few years and have pretty much eliminated slices. My biggest problem now seems to be hooks (which I usually am able to figure out) and pushes (which I usually CAN'T figure out) with my longer clubs, including driver.

The thing is, the FIRST thing I think of when I hit one of those pushes is my backswing. I find that when I take the club too far inside--almost like the "good"/"after" pictures above, I end up either hitting those pushes or hitting it fat. The thing is, i absolutely LOVE the feeling of bringing the clubhead back on the inside as my swing feels a lot more effortless and powerful--it's just that those pushes SCARE the jujus out of me.

To combat that, my main swingthoughts have been "hands straight back" on backswing and "hands pass through the setup position" on the downswing. Again, I hit the ball pretty well, but I'm curious about WHY my inside hands on the backswing mess me up.

I DO notice though, that a lot of Slicefixer's 9-3 and other swing stuff have good players swinging on that flatter backswing as well.

W/O any video, anyone have an answer to those pushes and fat shots?

Thanks![/quote]

Fat shots mean your head is translating (moving) backwards or you are losing your wedge(bend in the right wrist) prior to impact. Pushes and over draws are coming from a path that is too far to the right on the downswing. WHy that happens I have no clue without video.

[FATC1TY]

Having read this, coupled with the 7 days of straight rain, I'd be OUT SIDE swinging my 5-iron if it wasn't lightning.

Good read, appreciate it. My natural shot is a cut/fade. I get the nasty slice occasionally with my driver from time to time.. And like most the second shot with the driver is a pull hook.

Thanks for the info, and pictures. Especially the guy who started drawing it. That is exactly what I was interested in seeing.

[iteachgolf]

[quote name='FATC1TY' post='1964615' date='Sep 21 2009, 09:22 PM']Having read this, coupled with the 7 days of straight rain, I'd be OUT SIDE swinging my 5-iron if it wasn't lightning.

Good read, appreciate it. My natural shot is a cut/fade. I get the nasty slice occasionally with my driver from time to time.. And like most the second shot with the driver is a pull hook.

Thanks for the info, and pictures. Especially the guy who started drawing it. That is exactly what I was interested in seeing.[/quote]
They all started drawing. Just a FYI.

[FATC1TY]

I had a tendency to hit it fat, alot. Once I stood a bit more upright, and with not so much of a tilt, I was striking the ball cleaner, but will confess that I "flipped" from time to time, that led to weak thin fades/slices at times.

I always feel the "around" of the swing, but feel that I loop it at the top sometimes, like that guy did in the video before his change. His BS gets sorta flat, and then he lifts, and comes in out/in.

Is keeping the right elbow close to the body on the back swing, helpful in making sure the hands stay low and in?

I guess I'm just having trouble visualizing it/feeling it.. I rarely, if ever draw the ball. My swing always feels like I come through my right shoulder with the backswing.. Is that wrong?

I strike the ball okay, more fat than anything, but struggle with getting it to stay straight or draw.. Everything is a fade.

[rteach1]

Iteach,

Could you please explain what you told your students to do differently with their hands in order to produce the changes that you have shown? I see the differences but I'm missing the "how" of it.

Thank you very much.

rteach1 (similar name, but very different golf results)

[dream_stryker]

[quote name='jfzhorseman' post='1962750' date='Sep 20 2009, 08:27 PM']As a tall thin build player not that flexible, I find myself getting on my toes when making a steeper shoulder turn and end up standing up on the downswing to compensate and sticking the toe of the club in the ground. How do I over come this balance issue with a steeper backswing and sequence my downswing to clear the left hip and get to the left heel? Thanks.[/quote]

In trying to steepen your shoulder turn you are either burying your chin or tilting your head forward. The head has decent weight to it and it doesn't have to be that far out of position to upset balance. The shoulders work like a teeter totter you can move them up and down without changing the position of the base of your neck. Get centered at address and turn your shoulders on a steeper level WITHOUT moving the base of your neck too far towards the balls of your feet. You will be able to make the steeper turn you desire without the dynamic balance reflex (getting on toes) triggering. Hope this helps.

[iteachgolf]

[quote name='rteach1' post='1964763' date='Sep 21 2009, 10:28 PM']Iteach,

Could you please explain what you told your students to do differently with their hands in order to produce the changes that you have shown? I see the differences but I'm missing the "how" of it.

Thank you very much.

rteach1 (similar name, but very different golf results)[/quote]
Hands move around the body in a circle. To keep the arms on the ribcage and moving in a circle the space between the right elbow and the body should remain constant. This eliminates the lift and in conjunction with a steeper shoulder turn keeps the arms in and low. This increases potential for distance as well as making it easier to hit the ball from the inside.

[rteach1]

Thanks iteachgolf. I will work on this.

rteach1

[calibrate]

HI Iteach, wonderful set of posts. Man, those before and after pics have been really helpful in helping me get your concepts down. Keeping arms on ribcage is essential. I used to have quite a time w staying connected but putting my arms more on top of my chest rather than toward the sides has made staying connected easier (i think i got this idea from a passing comment in a nick Clearwater vid but not sure). I struggle w a slight OTT move as a consequence of arm lifting and getting v narrow. I divine that handpath has something to do w fixing this. What is correct angle of handpath on takeaway: 20 degrees away from target line? 45? As close to your R hip as you can manage? Maybe a better way of putting it, cuz I sense this is the question some others have been unsure about, is what initiates first move: shoulder down? Hands back and in? hands, arms, shoulders togethern as a unit? Or am I looking at this the wrong way and these are not the right questions? Thx and really appreciate the time you put in to your clearsighted posts here and elsewhere..

[Poser]

Really stopped the steep downswing for these people you posted. So the lady example 2 would that be a flat swing plane? Looks pretty flat to me.

[iteachgolf]

[quote name='calibrate' post='1965230' date='Sep 22 2009, 09:09 AM']HI Iteach, wonderful set of posts. Man, those before and after pics have been really helpful in helping me get your concepts down. Keeping arms on ribcage is essential. I used to have quite a time w staying connected but putting my arms more on top of my chest rather than toward the sides has made staying connected easier (i think i got this idea from a passing comment in a nick Clearwater vid but not sure). I struggle w a slight OTT move as a consequence of arm lifting and getting v narrow. I divine that handpath has something to do w fixing this. What is correct angle of handpath on takeaway: 20 degrees away from target line? 45? As close to your R hip as you can manage? Maybe a better way of putting it, cuz I sense this is the question some others have been unsure about, is what initiates first move: shoulder down? Hands back and in? hands, arms, shoulders togethern as a unit? Or am I looking at this the wrong way and these are not the right questions? Thx and really appreciate the time you put in to your clearsighted posts here and elsewhere..[/quote]
20º in is what I'd recommend. Hands go in as the left shoulder goes down. They work together and each make the other easier.

[iteachgolf]

[quote name='ABFU' post='1965255' date='Sep 22 2009, 09:31 AM']Really stopped the steep downswing for these people you posted. So the lady example 2 would that be a flat swing plane? Looks pretty flat to me.[/quote]
Flat arm swing with a steep shoulder turn is what I prefer.

[Poser]

Forgive my ignorance I don't know the golf swing that well trying to learn. I know someone who has a flat swing and his misses are shanks and it always looks way laid off to me. From looking at swing vision and watching golf I see more of an upright swing than I do the flat arm swing from most of the players out there.

[calibrate]

[quote name='iteachgolf ' post='1965288' date='Sep 22 2009, 09:50 AM']20º in is what I'd recommend. Hands go in as the left shoulder goes down. They work together and each make the other easier.[/quote]

wonderful, many thx--off to the backyard with it...

[picklzfan]

Great thread iteach. Went to the range today and worked on a few of the concepts here and had pretty good success with my short irons but I didn't do so well with my driver. Most of the drives were popping straight up or slices. I know its had to know what is happening without an video but any advice for hitting a driver or longer irons with concepts discussed here. Thanks in advance.

[logan91201]

Great thread iteach. Went to the range today and worked on a few of the concepts here and had pretty good success with my short irons but I didn't do so well with my driver. Most of the drives were popping straight up or slices. I know its had to know what is happening without an video but any advice for hitting a driver or longer irons with concepts discussed here. Thanks in advance.

 

 

Push your hips forward while keeping your head still to create 2nd axis tilt. This whill shallow out the strike considerably.

 

 

 

[iteachgolf]

Thanks Logan! Spot on.

Figured I'd post another set of pictures. This is probably the biggest change I've seen so far. This took a lot of work and time but also big payoff. He feels like his hands never get above chest high and feels like his hands are behind his right hip. Obviously this feel isn't what is really happening and is an exaggeration. This shows a guy with a big upper body and short arms can still accomplish the same geometry.
[attachment=469646:mark.jpeg]

[ChipnPutt]

Great, great thread. Definitely gives me some things to work on to shorten my swing.

Have been working on this for the past two days, but still seem to get my hands stuck behind me, and end up routing the club out-to-in (not as dramatic as some of these photos, but still not approaching the ball from the "inside"). Just seems like my hands stay too close to the right hip (I don't have that "window" with the left arm and bent right arm...looking down the line). Would uncoiling the shoulders too early be the culprit? Something seems out of sequence. (I know...without video, difficult to guess). I'm just trying to better understand the sequence needed.

Does this make sense? Any thoughts or advice would be greatly appreciated. This is driving me nuts...but I will succeed.

iTeach, I will be in the Orlando area in two months and would really like to take a lesson. Can you email me with any info on this? Thanks.

[Siteseer2]

[quote name='iteachgolf ' post='1966480' date='Sep 22 2009, 08:18 PM']Thanks Logan! Spot on.

Figured I'd post another set of pictures. This is probably the biggest change I've seen so far. This took a lot of work and time but also big payoff. He feels like his hands never get above chest high and feels like his hands are behind his right hip. Obviously this feel isn't what is really happening and is an exaggeration. This shows a guy with a big upper body and short arms can still accomplish the same geometry.
[attachment=469646:mark.jpeg][/quote]
always amazed at how you are able to improve the pivot so quickly on beginners... most are so dead-legged looking...good stuff

[iteachgolf]

[quote name='ChipnPutt' post='1966519' date='Sep 22 2009, 08:41 PM']Great, great thread. Definitely gives me some things to work on to shorten my swing.

Have been working on this for the past two days, but still seem to get my hands stuck behind me, and end up routing the club out-to-in (not as dramatic as some of these photos, but still not approaching the ball from the "inside"). Just seems like my hands stay too close to the right hip (I don't have that "window" with the left arm and bent right arm...looking down the line). Would uncoiling the shoulders too early be the culprit? Something seems out of sequence. (I know...without video, difficult to guess). I'm just trying to better understand the sequence needed.

Does this make sense? Any thoughts or advice would be greatly appreciated. This is driving me nuts...but I will succeed.

iTeach, I will be in the Orlando area in two months and would really like to take a lesson. Can you email me with any info on this? Thanks.[/quote]
Make sure the arms don't lift. In the downswing you need to shift your weight to your left side which tilts the upper body away from the target and shallows out the downswing. Shoulders are probably rotating too much too soon as well as likely too level.