Tilting correctly and handpath

[Investorguy]

iteach, do you recomend the left elbow pointing toward the left hip at address and during backswing like in Hogan's book?

[JohnnyNight]

Great thread iteach. Went to the range today and worked on a few of the concepts here and had pretty good success with my short irons but I didn't do so well with my driver. Most of the drives were popping straight up or slices. I know its had to know what is happening without an video but any advice for hitting a driver or longer irons with concepts discussed here. Thanks in advance.

 

 

Push your hips forward while keeping your head still to create 2nd axis tilt. This whill shallow out the strike considerably.

 

 

 

 

 

So it looks like one of the keys here is to keep your left shoulder in line with the ball position.

 

 

This may seem basic, but what body forces are you using to do the hip push forward.

 

Leveraging against a firm left side?

 

Anyone know what the little yellow x's mean?

 

thanks

[JohnnyNight]

logan91201

hello,

Saw you talking about a flying wedge, that's a new one to me.

Just found Richie3 has this flying wedge video, but he says it's for hitters,
so this wouldn't apply for a swinger?

[url="http://3jack.blogspot.com/2009/05/flying-wedge-drill.html"]http://3jack.blogspot.com/2009/05/flying-wedge-drill.html[/url]

[iteachgolf]

[quote name='Investorguy' post='1967057' date='Sep 23 2009, 01:10 AM']iteach, do you recomend the left elbow pointing toward the left hip at address and during backswing like in Hogan's book?[/quote]
Let arm points around the left hip at address but rotates in the backswing to keep the club on plane.

[iteachgolf]

Great thread iteach. Went to the range today and worked on a few of the concepts here and had pretty good success with my short irons but I didn't do so well with my driver. Most of the drives were popping straight up or slices. I know its had to know what is happening without an video but any advice for hitting a driver or longer irons with concepts discussed here. Thanks in advance.

 

 

Push your hips forward while keeping your head still to create 2nd axis tilt. This whill shallow out the strike considerably.

 

 

 

 

 

So it looks like one of the keys here is to keep your left shoulder in line with the ball position.

 

 

This may seem basic, but what body forces are you using to do the hip push forward.

 

Leveraging against a firm left side?

 

Anyone know what the little yellow x's mean?

 

thanks

X's show the movement of the knees. The proper pivot in the backswing encourages the slide (right hip higher than left). Hips will feel like they move in a straight line parallel to the baseline/targetline.

[KevCarter]

[quote name='Siteseer2' post='1966525' date='Sep 22 2009, 07:44 PM'][quote name='iteachgolf ' post='1966480' date='Sep 22 2009, 08:18 PM']Thanks Logan! Spot on.

Figured I'd post another set of pictures. This is probably the biggest change I've seen so far. This took a lot of work and time but also big payoff. He feels like his hands never get above chest high and feels like his hands are behind his right hip. Obviously this feel isn't what is really happening and is an exaggeration. This shows a guy with a big upper body and short arms can still accomplish the same geometry.
[attachment=469646:mark.jpeg][/quote]
always amazed at how you are able to improve the pivot so quickly on beginners... most are so dead-legged looking...good stuff
[/quote]

I have always been impressed with Dana in this regard as well. iTeach is on the same path, I would recommend him to anyone. I have also been lucky enough to spend a day with Lynn Blake, and watched him make similar magic with one of my problem children.

Transformations like this with the average Joe REALLY IMPRESS me!

Kevin

[JohnnyNight]

I do see a little yellow x waist high, with the yellow line to his head.

thanks

[iteachgolf]

[quote name='JohnnyNight' post='1967366' date='Sep 23 2009, 09:57 AM']I do see a little yellow x waist high, with the yellow line to his head.

thanks[/quote]
It shows the tilt of the spine away from the target created by the sliding of the hips.

[martinez]

[quote name='iteachgolf ' post='1967345' date='Sep 23 2009, 11:42 PM'][quote name='Investorguy' post='1967057' date='Sep 23 2009, 01:10 AM']iteach, do you recomend the left elbow pointing toward the left hip at address and during backswing like in Hogan's book?[/quote]
Let arm points around the left hip at address but rotates in the backswing to keep the club on plane.
[/quote]
I would resist the 'natural' rolling of the left arm to keep the club on plane. You can't completely stop it from rolling but with the hand path in you don't need to consciously roll it.

[iteachgolf]

[quote name='martinez' post='1968162' date='Sep 23 2009, 05:09 PM'][quote name='iteachgolf ' post='1967345' date='Sep 23 2009, 11:42 PM'][quote name='Investorguy' post='1967057' date='Sep 23 2009, 01:10 AM']iteach, do you recomend the left elbow pointing toward the left hip at address and during backswing like in Hogan's book?[/quote]
Let arm points around the left hip at address but rotates in the backswing to keep the club on plane.
[/quote]
I would resist the 'natural' rolling of the left arm to keep the club on plane. You can't completely stop it from rolling but with the hand path in you don't need to consciously roll it.
[/quote]
I would agree 100%. I feel like Mine don't rotate at all in backswing. I was simply saying that it happens, but for most it is not a conscious manipulation. Some people do need to load #3 more going back but I would say most have too much rotation too soon.

[Siteseer2]

[quote name='iteachgolf ' post='1968220' date='Sep 23 2009, 05:44 PM'][quote name='martinez' post='1968162' date='Sep 23 2009, 05:09 PM'][quote name='iteachgolf ' post='1967345' date='Sep 23 2009, 11:42 PM'][quote name='Investorguy' post='1967057' date='Sep 23 2009, 01:10 AM']iteach, do you recomend the left elbow pointing toward the left hip at address and during backswing like in Hogan's book?[/quote]
Let arm points around the left hip at address but rotates in the backswing to keep the club on plane.
[/quote]
I would resist the 'natural' rolling of the left arm to keep the club on plane. You can't completely stop it from rolling but with the hand path in you don't need to consciously roll it.
[/quote]
I would agree 100%. I feel like Mine don't rotate at all in backswing. I was simply saying that it happens, but for most it is not a conscious manipulation. Some people do need to load #3 more going back but I would say most have too much rotation too soon.
[/quote]
How do you Load #3... how do you unload it... when is it too much, when is it to fast-- on BS and DS...the BIG question, yes...
...to Magnum's point (I think), proper sequencing of #3... How?

[iteachgolf]

How much and when is dependent on many factors. The more in the hands go in the backswing the more forearms have to rotate to get the club on plane. If the hands just go up without going in while still rotating the forearms the sweetspot will end up below plane. Is more about matching the rotation of the forearms with the rate they work back up and in for the backswing. The downswing is similar, it is matching the left arm position and the desired swing plane. So the more in the left arm is in the downswing the more #3 required to keep the the club from steepening.

[spider]

I must be super slow. This "number 3" has me so confused. I dunno how you guys can see number 3... see it released... see it over done... see it !@##%%@@%% on and on and on. eightiron says MB doesn't have it Jarid says he wished he had the 3 like MB. that was just a quick example.

Am I crazy or does everyone have a different definition of the elusive 3.

Feel free to blast me if you find that this post stupid. Should have wrote Stoopid like 12 piece

[sfong33]

iteach,

I've been following this thread for the past few days and finally got a chance to view the Youtube video that you referenced in post #60 for the player who went through the big change from slice to draw in 15 minutes. Great work.

I was really struck by the player's before swing, which pretty much mirrors my own. I have the same tendency to lift (by lifting, I mean it looks like I am coming up out of my posture near the top of the backswing) on the backswing and on the downswing lunging with my upper body in order to "make up" for the lifting on the backswing. I noticed on the "after" swing that this undesirable and unsightly move was pretty much eliminated. Does the level shoulder turn and having your arms relatively in front of you on the backswing cause this tendency to lift up? I always thought it was due to a lack of flexibility and core strength (there is a topic called early extension in this same forum which is what I based my conclusion on). I have been trying to do a lot of stretching and core workouts and I will continue to do them regardless of whether or not these weaknesses are the cause of my problem, but it would be comforting to know that I am capable of correcting this lifting up/lunging of the torso with your 2 suggestions discussed in this thread.

So, what I am basically asking is: does the level turn and having the arms relatively in front of you cause the lifting up on the BS and the compensating lunge on the DS? Thanks!

[iteachgolf]

[quote name='sfong33' post='1968496' date='Sep 23 2009, 08:23 PM']iteach,

I've been following this thread for the past few days and finally got a chance to view the Youtube video that you referenced in post #60 for the player who went through the big change from slice to draw in 15 minutes. Great work.

I was really struck by the player's before swing, which pretty much mirrors my own. I have the same tendency to lift (by lifting, I mean it looks like I am coming up out of my posture near the top of the backswing) on the backswing and on the downswing lunging with my upper body in order to "make up" for the lifting on the backswing. I noticed on the "after" swing that this undesirable and unsightly move was pretty much eliminated. Does the level shoulder turn and having your arms relatively in front of you on the backswing cause this tendency to lift up? I always thought it was due to a lack of flexibility and core strength (there is a topic called early extension in this same forum which is what I based my conclusion on). I have been trying to do a lot of stretching and core workouts and I will continue to do them regardless of whether or not these weaknesses are the cause of my problem, but it would be comforting to know that I am capable of correcting this lifting up/lunging of the torso with your 2 suggestions discussed in this thread.

So, wha I am basically asking is: does the level turn and having the arms relatively in front of you cause the lifting up on the BS and the compensating lunge on the DS? Thanks![/quote]
yes. Hands need to work in and around your body in a circle, not in a straight line, as well as the left shoulder going more down. It is very tough not to lift when making a very flat shoulder turn.

[Lake]

Charlie starts to turn #3 at the six second mark... starts to roll #3 at the ten second mark for a long slow closing rate through impact.

[url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tlCvFU6V-3o&feature=channel_page"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tlCvFU6V-3o...re=channel_page[/url]

[glcoach]

So...explain what works linearly

[glcoach]

I would assume this refers to rate of closure, but just want to be sure

[iteachgolf]

[quote name='glcoach' post='1968703' date='Sep 23 2009, 09:58 PM']So...explain what works linearly[/quote]
Who is this directed towards and in regards to what? Just wanna make sure.

[glcoach]

Anyone... Linear means constant or a straight line, just wondering if the body works more in straight lines while the hands work in a circle. Or...if linear is referring to face closure

[Siteseer2]

[quote name='lake' post='1968691' date='Sep 23 2009, 09:56 PM']Charlie starts to turn #3 at the six second mark... starts to roll #3 at the ten second mark for a long slow closing rate through impact.

[url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tlCvFU6V-3o&feature=channel_page"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tlCvFU6V-3o...re=channel_page[/url][/quote]


[size=3][b]BEGIN with:[/b][/size]
The Three Basic Wrist Motions Are Classified As;

Horizontal - FLAT --- BENT --- ARCHED --- (CLUB SHAFT) == GRIP MOTION

Perpendicular- LEVEL --- C@ck--- UNCOCK --- (CLUB HEAD) == WRIST MOTION

Rotational - VERTICAL --- TURN --- ROLL --- (CLUBFACE) == HAND MOTION

[size=3][b]AND THEN:[/b][/size]

The Classic Adjusted Address Alignments are (Bent Left Wrist and Flat Right Wrist) and this favors the Swinger's Centrifugal swing back and then its Drag Loading (10-19-C) with its Longitudinal Clubshaft PULL through Impact. This is an out and out PULL, striving to accelerate the clubshaft lengthwise. Start the club down as though it were being drawn from a quiver like an arrow feathered end first.

Both 'Hitter's' and 'Swinger's' can start from the Impact Fix Wrist Condition (Flat Left Wrist and Bent Right Wrist) but these Alignments do favour the Hitter's muscular 'Carry Back' Motion and Drive Loading (10-19-A) with Radial Clubshaft PUSH through Impact. This is an "Axe handle" technique of the Hitter, an out and out Right Arm Thrust against the Clubhead Lag. Radial Clubshaft PUSH is always Right Arm Thrust.

With both 'Swinging' and 'Hitting', the Bent Left Wrist in Adjusted Address (8-3) becomes Flat in Start-Up (8-4) by using 'Extensor Action' (6-B-1-D). Homer Kelley strongly recoomended using Pressure Point #3 for Extensor Action for the Swinger. Refer to 10-19-0, 3rd paragraph concerning the Swinger and the use of Extensor Action.

The Left Wrist moves to 'Uncocked' after Impact and this is Full Extension of the Primary Lever Assembly with the Left Arm and Clubshaft in a straight line. This therefore results in a Zero #3 Accumulator (7-18) and an 'In Line' Left Arm Flying Wedge (6-B-3-0-1 Page 74). The Right Wrist remains in its Bent and Level Condition during this Full Extension. Therefore the On Plane Right Forearm Flying Wedge (6-B-3-0-1) remains unchanged and in its Precision 90 Degree relationship with the Left Arm Flying Wedge. Read The Golfing Machine Book by Homer Kelley (6-B-3-0-1) in regards to the Flying Wedges as this is Precision.

The Right Wrist must NEVER move from Level to Uncocked through Impact as the Right Wrist only Bent Back throughout the Backstroke and Downstroke so as it never Cocked it can not and should not Uncock.

The Left Wrist is not Level when the Hand is in the 'Karate Chop' position and the middle finger runs up the Forearm. It is Cocked. The Left Wrist is in a Level Condition when the wrist bone and the edge of the hand to the first knuckle of the first finger) form a straight line. This puts the finger in a slightly downward pointing position. Refer to 4-B-1 and its accompanying text.

With the Flat Left Wrist Level at Impact, this will assure that the Primary Lever Assembly (the Left Arm and Clubshaft) will not achieve Full Extension until after Impact.

SEE: The Golfing Machine Book Chapter 4 for all Individual Wrist Postions. Remember that the key to contolling the club is by Educated Hands. The Hands are the main lines of communication between the body and the Clubhead.

GOT IT....

[iteachgolf]

[quote name='glcoach' post='1968735' date='Sep 23 2009, 10:18 PM']Anyone... Linear means constant or a straight line, just wondering if the body works more in straight lines while the hands work in a circle. Or...if linear is referring to face closure[/quote]
Hips work linear as well as rotate in the downswing. Most people have the rotation part down and in fact the more slide and extension the more the hips can turn. Most people need to feel like they just go linear.

[spider]

[quote name='lake' post='1968691' date='Sep 23 2009, 06:56 PM']Charlie starts to turn #3 at the six second mark... starts to roll #3 at the ten second mark for a long slow closing rate through impact.

[url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tlCvFU6V-3o&feature=channel_page"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tlCvFU6V-3o...re=channel_page[/url][/quote]

THANKS!!!!!!

[eightiron]

[quote name='Siteseer2' post='1968748' date='Sep 23 2009, 09:23 PM'][quote name='lake' post='1968691' date='Sep 23 2009, 09:56 PM']Charlie starts to turn #3 at the six second mark... starts to roll #3 at the ten second mark for a long slow closing rate through impact.

[url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tlCvFU6V-3o&feature=channel_page"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tlCvFU6V-3o...re=channel_page[/url][/quote]


[size=3][b]BEGIN with:[/b][/size]
The Three Basic Wrist Motions Are Classified As;

Horizontal - FLAT --- BENT --- ARCHED --- (CLUB SHAFT) == GRIP MOTION

Perpendicular- LEVEL --- C@ck--- UNCOCK --- (CLUB HEAD) == WRIST MOTION

Rotational - VERTICAL --- TURN --- ROLL --- (CLUBFACE) == HAND MOTION

[size=3][b]AND THEN:[/b][/size]

The Classic Adjusted Address Alignments are (Bent Left Wrist and Flat Right Wrist) and this favors the Swinger's Centrifugal swing back and then its Drag Loading (10-19-C) with its Longitudinal Clubshaft PULL through Impact. This is an out and out PULL, striving to accelerate the clubshaft lengthwise. Start the club down as though it were being drawn from a quiver like an arrow feathered end first.

Both 'Hitter's' and 'Swinger's' can start from the Impact Fix Wrist Condition (Flat Left Wrist and Bent Right Wrist) but these Alignments do favour the Hitter's muscular 'Carry Back' Motion and Drive Loading (10-19-A) with Radial Clubshaft PUSH through Impact. This is an "Axe handle" technique of the Hitter, an out and out Right Arm Thrust against the Clubhead Lag. Radial Clubshaft PUSH is always Right Arm Thrust.

With both 'Swinging' and 'Hitting', the Bent Left Wrist in Adjusted Address (8-3) becomes Flat in Start-Up (8-4) by using 'Extensor Action' (6-B-1-D). Homer Kelley strongly recoomended using Pressure Point #3 for Extensor Action for the Swinger. Refer to 10-19-0, 3rd paragraph concerning the Swinger and the use of Extensor Action.

The Left Wrist moves to 'Uncocked' after Impact and this is Full Extension of the Primary Lever Assembly with the Left Arm and Clubshaft in a straight line. This therefore results in a Zero #3 Accumulator (7-18) and an 'In Line' Left Arm Flying Wedge (6-B-3-0-1 Page 74). The Right Wrist remains in its Bent and Level Condition during this Full Extension. Therefore the On Plane Right Forearm Flying Wedge (6-B-3-0-1) remains unchanged and in its Precision 90 Degree relationship with the Left Arm Flying Wedge. Read The Golfing Machine Book by Homer Kelley (6-B-3-0-1) in regards to the Flying Wedges as this is Precision.

[b]The Right Wrist must NEVER move from Level to Uncocked through Impact as the Right Wrist only Bent Back throughout the Backstroke and Downstroke so as it never Cocked it can not and should not Uncock[/b].

The Left Wrist is not Level when the Hand is in the 'Karate Chop' position and the middle finger runs up the Forearm. It is Cocked. The Left Wrist is in a Level Condition when the wrist bone and the edge of the hand to the first knuckle of the first finger) form a straight line. This puts the finger in a slightly downward pointing position. Refer to 4-B-1 and its accompanying text.

With the Flat Left Wrist Level at Impact, this will assure that the Primary Lever Assembly (the Left Arm and Clubshaft) will not achieve Full Extension until after Impact.

SEE: The Golfing Machine Book Chapter 4 for all Individual Wrist Postions. Remember that the key to contolling the club is by Educated Hands. The Hands are the main lines of communication between the body and the Clubhead.

GOT IT....
[/quote]

How about this bloke / level or uncocking right wrist

[12 piece bucket]

[quote name='lake' post='1968691' date='Sep 23 2009, 09:56 PM']Charlie starts to turn #3 at the six second mark... starts to roll #3 at the ten second mark for a long slow closing rate through impact.

[url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tlCvFU6V-3o&feature=channel_page"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tlCvFU6V-3o...re=channel_page[/url][/quote]

Bossmang . . . Does the MORAD set believe in "independent" rotation Swivel type motion or are they Turning and Rolling the entire Left Arm Flying Wedge assembly? Automatic? Non-Auotomatic? Also . . . what say y'all about some Full Lever Extension. . . can you fully extend the Primary Lever and stay upon the Elbizzywizzy Plane?

Screambakwhenucan.

[Siteseer2]

[quote name='eightiron' post='1968816' date='Sep 23 2009, 10:53 PM'][quote name='Siteseer2' post='1968748' date='Sep 23 2009, 09:23 PM'][quote name='lake' post='1968691' date='Sep 23 2009, 09:56 PM']Charlie starts to turn #3 at the six second mark... starts to roll #3 at the ten second mark for a long slow closing rate through impact.

[url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tlCvFU6V-3o&feature=channel_page"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tlCvFU6V-3o...re=channel_page[/url][/quote]


[size=3][b]BEGIN with:[/b][/size]
The Three Basic Wrist Motions Are Classified As;

Horizontal - FLAT --- BENT --- ARCHED --- (CLUB SHAFT) == GRIP MOTION

Perpendicular- LEVEL --- C@ck--- UNCOCK --- (CLUB HEAD) == WRIST MOTION

Rotational - VERTICAL --- TURN --- ROLL --- (CLUBFACE) == HAND MOTION

[size=3][b]AND THEN:[/b][/size]

The Classic Adjusted Address Alignments are (Bent Left Wrist and Flat Right Wrist) and this favors the Swinger's Centrifugal swing back and then its Drag Loading (10-19-C) with its Longitudinal Clubshaft PULL through Impact. This is an out and out PULL, striving to accelerate the clubshaft lengthwise. Start the club down as though it were being drawn from a quiver like an arrow feathered end first.

Both 'Hitter's' and 'Swinger's' can start from the Impact Fix Wrist Condition (Flat Left Wrist and Bent Right Wrist) but these Alignments do favour the Hitter's muscular 'Carry Back' Motion and Drive Loading (10-19-A) with Radial Clubshaft PUSH through Impact. This is an "Axe handle" technique of the Hitter, an out and out Right Arm Thrust against the Clubhead Lag. Radial Clubshaft PUSH is always Right Arm Thrust.

With both 'Swinging' and 'Hitting', the Bent Left Wrist in Adjusted Address (8-3) becomes Flat in Start-Up (8-4) by using 'Extensor Action' (6-B-1-D). Homer Kelley strongly recoomended using Pressure Point #3 for Extensor Action for the Swinger. Refer to 10-19-0, 3rd paragraph concerning the Swinger and the use of Extensor Action.

The Left Wrist moves to 'Uncocked' after Impact and this is Full Extension of the Primary Lever Assembly with the Left Arm and Clubshaft in a straight line. This therefore results in a Zero #3 Accumulator (7-18) and an 'In Line' Left Arm Flying Wedge (6-B-3-0-1 Page 74). The Right Wrist remains in its Bent and Level Condition during this Full Extension. Therefore the On Plane Right Forearm Flying Wedge (6-B-3-0-1) remains unchanged and in its Precision 90 Degree relationship with the Left Arm Flying Wedge. Read The Golfing Machine Book by Homer Kelley (6-B-3-0-1) in regards to the Flying Wedges as this is Precision.

[b]The Right Wrist must NEVER move from Level to Uncocked through Impact as the Right Wrist only Bent Back throughout the Backstroke and Downstroke so as it never Cocked it can not and should not Uncock[/b].

The Left Wrist is not Level when the Hand is in the 'Karate Chop' position and the middle finger runs up the Forearm. It is Cocked. The Left Wrist is in a Level Condition when the wrist bone and the edge of the hand to the first knuckle of the first finger) form a straight line. This puts the finger in a slightly downward pointing position. Refer to 4-B-1 and its accompanying text.

With the Flat Left Wrist Level at Impact, this will assure that the Primary Lever Assembly (the Left Arm and Clubshaft) will not achieve Full Extension until after Impact.

SEE: The Golfing Machine Book Chapter 4 for all Individual Wrist Postions. Remember that the key to contolling the club is by Educated Hands. The Hands are the main lines of communication between the body and the Clubhead.

GOT IT....
[/quote]

How about this bloke / level or uncocking right wrist
[/quote]
Eight... the right wrist NEVER uncocks...it flexes...
Ideally, the Right Wrist is never Cocked (Perpendicular Motion) during the Backstroke - so it cannot be Uncocked during the Downstroke. Instead, it is only Bent (Horizontal Motion) -- and that Bent condition is maintained through Impact and for as long as possible into the Follow-Through. There is no Flattening through Impact (also a Horizontal Motion) because any Flattening of the Right Wrist becomes Left Wrist Bend...

The Uncocking is #2 and is a left wrist action

#3 is the ANGLE of the clubshaft and left arm at adress... you want to return to impact at the SAME angle-- not higher, not lower

The left wrist uncocking provides the 'down' and the pivot provides the 'out'. Uncock then roll. The 'roll' is imparted by the pivot. The combination of those two forces = 'on plane' sweet spot

But then you KNEW that...

[Siteseer2]

[quote name='12 piece bucket' post='1968818' date='Sep 23 2009, 10:54 PM'][quote name='lake' post='1968691' date='Sep 23 2009, 09:56 PM']Charlie starts to turn #3 at the six second mark... starts to roll #3 at the ten second mark for a long slow closing rate through impact.

[url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tlCvFU6V-3o&feature=channel_page"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tlCvFU6V-3o...re=channel_page[/url][/quote]

Bossmang . . . Does the MORAD set believe in "independent" rotation Swivel type motion or are they Turning and Rolling the entire Left Arm Flying Wedge assembly? Automatic? Non-Auotomatic? Also . . . what say y'all about some Full Lever Extension. . . can you fully extend the Primary Lever and stay upon the Elbizzywizzy Plane?

Screambakwhenucan.
[/quote]
Great question.. expressed in only [b]the[/b] way Bucket can phrase it....

[12 piece bucket]

[quote name='Siteseer2' post='1968846' date='Sep 23 2009, 11:07 PM'][quote name='eightiron' post='1968816' date='Sep 23 2009, 10:53 PM'][quote name='Siteseer2' post='1968748' date='Sep 23 2009, 09:23 PM'][quote name='lake' post='1968691' date='Sep 23 2009, 09:56 PM']Charlie starts to turn #3 at the six second mark... starts to roll #3 at the ten second mark for a long slow closing rate through impact.

[url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tlCvFU6V-3o&feature=channel_page"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tlCvFU6V-3o...re=channel_page[/url][/quote]


[size=3][b]BEGIN with:[/b][/size]
The Three Basic Wrist Motions Are Classified As;

Horizontal - FLAT --- BENT --- ARCHED --- (CLUB SHAFT) == GRIP MOTION

Perpendicular- LEVEL --- C@ck--- UNCOCK --- (CLUB HEAD) == WRIST MOTION

Rotational - VERTICAL --- TURN --- ROLL --- (CLUBFACE) == HAND MOTION

[size=3][b]AND THEN:[/b][/size]

The Classic Adjusted Address Alignments are (Bent Left Wrist and Flat Right Wrist) and this favors the Swinger's Centrifugal swing back and then its Drag Loading (10-19-C) with its Longitudinal Clubshaft PULL through Impact. This is an out and out PULL, striving to accelerate the clubshaft lengthwise. Start the club down as though it were being drawn from a quiver like an arrow feathered end first.

Both 'Hitter's' and 'Swinger's' can start from the Impact Fix Wrist Condition (Flat Left Wrist and Bent Right Wrist) but these Alignments do favour the Hitter's muscular 'Carry Back' Motion and Drive Loading (10-19-A) with Radial Clubshaft PUSH through Impact. This is an "Axe handle" technique of the Hitter, an out and out Right Arm Thrust against the Clubhead Lag. Radial Clubshaft PUSH is always Right Arm Thrust.

With both 'Swinging' and 'Hitting', the Bent Left Wrist in Adjusted Address (8-3) becomes Flat in Start-Up (8-4) by using 'Extensor Action' (6-B-1-D). Homer Kelley strongly recoomended using Pressure Point #3 for Extensor Action for the Swinger. Refer to 10-19-0, 3rd paragraph concerning the Swinger and the use of Extensor Action.

The Left Wrist moves to 'Uncocked' after Impact and this is Full Extension of the Primary Lever Assembly with the Left Arm and Clubshaft in a straight line. This therefore results in a Zero #3 Accumulator (7-18) and an 'In Line' Left Arm Flying Wedge (6-B-3-0-1 Page 74). The Right Wrist remains in its Bent and Level Condition during this Full Extension. Therefore the On Plane Right Forearm Flying Wedge (6-B-3-0-1) remains unchanged and in its Precision 90 Degree relationship with the Left Arm Flying Wedge. Read The Golfing Machine Book by Homer Kelley (6-B-3-0-1) in regards to the Flying Wedges as this is Precision.

[b]The Right Wrist must NEVER move from Level to Uncocked through Impact as the Right Wrist only Bent Back throughout the Backstroke and Downstroke so as it never Cocked it can not and should not Uncock[/b].

The Left Wrist is not Level when the Hand is in the 'Karate Chop' position and the middle finger runs up the Forearm. It is Cocked. The Left Wrist is in a Level Condition when the wrist bone and the edge of the hand to the first knuckle of the first finger) form a straight line. This puts the finger in a slightly downward pointing position. Refer to 4-B-1 and its accompanying text.

With the Flat Left Wrist Level at Impact, this will assure that the Primary Lever Assembly (the Left Arm and Clubshaft) will not achieve Full Extension until after Impact.

SEE: The Golfing Machine Book Chapter 4 for all Individual Wrist Postions. Remember that the key to contolling the club is by Educated Hands. The Hands are the main lines of communication between the body and the Clubhead.

GOT IT....
[/quote]

How about this bloke / level or uncocking right wrist
[/quote]
Eight... the right wrist NEVER uncocks...it flexes...
Ideally, the Right Wrist is never Cocked (Perpendicular Motion) during the Backstroke - so it cannot be Uncocked during the Downstroke. Instead, it is only Bent (Horizontal Motion) -- and that Bent condition is maintained through Impact and for as long as possible into the Follow-Through. There is no Flattening through Impact (also a Horizontal Motion) because [b]any Flattening of the Right Wrist becomes Left Wrist Bend...[/b]

The Uncocking is #2 and is a left wrist action

#3 is the ANGLE of the clubshaft and left arm at adress... you want to return to impact at the SAME angle-- not higher, not lower

The left wrist uncocking provides the 'down' and the pivot provides the 'out'. Uncock then roll. The 'roll' is imparted by the pivot. The combination of those two forces = 'on plane' sweet spot

But then you KNEW that...

[/quote]

Better not let Vijay in on that one . . .

[Siteseer2]

[quote name='12 piece bucket' post='1968852' date='Sep 23 2009, 11:12 PM'][quote name='Siteseer2' post='1968846' date='Sep 23 2009, 11:07 PM'][quote name='eightiron' post='1968816' date='Sep 23 2009, 10:53 PM'][quote name='Siteseer2' post='1968748' date='Sep 23 2009, 09:23 PM'][quote name='lake' post='1968691' date='Sep 23 2009, 09:56 PM']Charlie starts to turn #3 at the six second mark... starts to roll #3 at the ten second mark for a long slow closing rate through impact.

[url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tlCvFU6V-3o&feature=channel_page"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tlCvFU6V-3o...re=channel_page[/url][/quote]


[size=3][b]BEGIN with:[/b][/size]
The Three Basic Wrist Motions Are Classified As;

Horizontal - FLAT --- BENT --- ARCHED --- (CLUB SHAFT) == GRIP MOTION

Perpendicular- LEVEL --- C@ck--- UNCOCK --- (CLUB HEAD) == WRIST MOTION

Rotational - VERTICAL --- TURN --- ROLL --- (CLUBFACE) == HAND MOTION

[size=3][b]AND THEN:[/b][/size]

The Classic Adjusted Address Alignments are (Bent Left Wrist and Flat Right Wrist) and this favors the Swinger's Centrifugal swing back and then its Drag Loading (10-19-C) with its Longitudinal Clubshaft PULL through Impact. This is an out and out PULL, striving to accelerate the clubshaft lengthwise. Start the club down as though it were being drawn from a quiver like an arrow feathered end first.

Both 'Hitter's' and 'Swinger's' can start from the Impact Fix Wrist Condition (Flat Left Wrist and Bent Right Wrist) but these Alignments do favour the Hitter's muscular 'Carry Back' Motion and Drive Loading (10-19-A) with Radial Clubshaft PUSH through Impact. This is an "Axe handle" technique of the Hitter, an out and out Right Arm Thrust against the Clubhead Lag. Radial Clubshaft PUSH is always Right Arm Thrust.

With both 'Swinging' and 'Hitting', the Bent Left Wrist in Adjusted Address (8-3) becomes Flat in Start-Up (8-4) by using 'Extensor Action' (6-B-1-D). Homer Kelley strongly recoomended using Pressure Point #3 for Extensor Action for the Swinger. Refer to 10-19-0, 3rd paragraph concerning the Swinger and the use of Extensor Action.

The Left Wrist moves to 'Uncocked' after Impact and this is Full Extension of the Primary Lever Assembly with the Left Arm and Clubshaft in a straight line. This therefore results in a Zero #3 Accumulator (7-18) and an 'In Line' Left Arm Flying Wedge (6-B-3-0-1 Page 74). The Right Wrist remains in its Bent and Level Condition during this Full Extension. Therefore the On Plane Right Forearm Flying Wedge (6-B-3-0-1) remains unchanged and in its Precision 90 Degree relationship with the Left Arm Flying Wedge. Read The Golfing Machine Book by Homer Kelley (6-B-3-0-1) in regards to the Flying Wedges as this is Precision.

[b]The Right Wrist must NEVER move from Level to Uncocked through Impact as the Right Wrist only Bent Back throughout the Backstroke and Downstroke so as it never Cocked it can not and should not Uncock[/b].

The Left Wrist is not Level when the Hand is in the 'Karate Chop' position and the middle finger runs up the Forearm. It is Cocked. The Left Wrist is in a Level Condition when the wrist bone and the edge of the hand to the first knuckle of the first finger) form a straight line. This puts the finger in a slightly downward pointing position. Refer to 4-B-1 and its accompanying text.

With the Flat Left Wrist Level at Impact, this will assure that the Primary Lever Assembly (the Left Arm and Clubshaft) will not achieve Full Extension until after Impact.

SEE: The Golfing Machine Book Chapter 4 for all Individual Wrist Postions. Remember that the key to contolling the club is by Educated Hands. The Hands are the main lines of communication between the body and the Clubhead.

GOT IT....
[/quote]

How about this bloke / level or uncocking right wrist
[/quote]
Eight... the right wrist NEVER uncocks...it flexes...
Ideally, the Right Wrist is never Cocked (Perpendicular Motion) during the Backstroke - so it cannot be Uncocked during the Downstroke. Instead, it is only Bent (Horizontal Motion) -- and that Bent condition is maintained through Impact and for as long as possible into the Follow-Through. There is no Flattening through Impact (also a Horizontal Motion) because [b]any Flattening of the Right Wrist becomes Left Wrist Bend...[/b]

The Uncocking is #2 and is a left wrist action

#3 is the ANGLE of the clubshaft and left arm at adress... you want to return to impact at the SAME angle-- not higher, not lower

The left wrist uncocking provides the 'down' and the pivot provides the 'out'. Uncock then roll. The 'roll' is imparted by the pivot. The combination of those two forces = 'on plane' sweet spot

But then you KNEW that...

[/quote]

Better not let Vijay in on that one . . .
[/quote]
He doesn't get high marks for his RELEASE motion... though he is a great PLAYER...

[caryk]

iteach, great thread!!! Really enjoying your comments and the response of others.

Regarding the "hands in" concept, what affect does it have on ball flight besides favoring a draw? Is the resulting trajectory slightly higher or alot higher? Just curious. Thanks again!