Seniors Should Go with 48" Drivers??

[Sean2]

I read an article, not sure where, that stated that seniors looking for distance should go with a very light shaft and grip, and the length should be around 48" for the driver.

 

What do you all think?

[XYB34A]

There is a 60 year old man, that has just retired from the post office that plays at my club. He uses, a 48 inch Regular flex driver and hits it about 200 in the air at the most. It will roll out some though.

I cant see as it makes any difference for him. I have seen him hit new drivers that are standard length on demo days. He doesnt hit them any shorter than the 48 inch long one.

I guess different strokes for different folks, or different swings for different people.

[Pepperturbo]

[quote name='DefConOne' post='2027564' date='Oct 26 2009, 04:56 PM']I read an article, not sure where, that stated that seniors looking for distance should go with a very light shaft and grip, and the length should be around 48" for the driver.

What do you all think?[/quote]

I get to pay senior prices being 60 now - how cool is that... but wouldn't suggest that shaft length unless the proper swing mechanics were there.

A 72 year old friend uses a 47" shaft; very light rig... feels like a rope to me. He hits it consistently 235-240yds down the middle and he's a slight man. I can't swing his club at all. He however does quite well using a very slow swing speed and lots of patience to allow the club head to catch up before impact. If someone has that type of swing, they should investigate a long driver.

[Sean2]

I suppose it would require a real smooth transition and good tempo throughout.

[ezra76]

[quote name='Pepperturbo' post='2027603' date='Oct 26 2009, 07:11 PM'][quote name='DefConOne' post='2027564' date='Oct 26 2009, 04:56 PM']I read an article, not sure where, that stated that seniors looking for distance should go with a very light shaft and grip, and the length should be around 48" for the driver.

What do you all think?[/quote]

I get to pay senior prices being 60 now - how cool is that... but wouldn't suggest that shaft length unless the proper swing mechanics were there.

A 72 year old friend uses a 47" shaft; very light rig... feels like a rope to me. He hits it consistently 235-240yds down the middle and he's a slight man. I can't swing his club at all. He however does quite well using a very slow swing speed and lots of patience to allow the club head to catch up before impact. If someone has that type of swing, they should investigate a long driver.
[/quote]

One of my regular playing partners is like that. Mid 50's and slight, my sister could beat him armwrestling. He tees it high and hits a smooth 5yd. draw everytime. 47" 8.5* driver. If he misses 2 fairways, it's a really off day.

[Pepperturbo]

Yep, just like Doc's swing, he plays to an 8 index too. His swing is smooth, but it's important to emphasize when swinging an extra long shaft the hands have to "wait" in the swing for the shaft end to catch up... that aspect plays a critical part in squaring the face at impact.

A few weeks back during a televised PGA event a few x-touring pros turned announcers said tour players have been migrating to longer 45.5-46" shafts; so there is value in the consideration.

[SwingBlade]

For most amateur players, I believe that just the opposite is true. I've found that all of the really slow seniors I know have benefited far more from a short shaft than from a longer shaft. Theoretically, a longer shaft will yield another 2 to 5 mph swingspeed. However, unless one still has great timing and skill - like a senior scratch player or senior tour pro - any gains in swingspeed are more than likely fully offset negatively by the timing issue and by the inability to hit the sweetspot consistently.

I try to get every slow swinging senior player (80 mph or slower) to try a 12 to 14 degree 460 head with a senior flex shaft shortened by 2 to 3 inches from standard. None has ever gone back to super long shafts again.

[Sean2]

[quote name='SwingBlade' post='2037696' date='Oct 31 2009, 07:32 PM']For most amateur players, I believe that just the opposite is true. I've found that all of the really slow seniors I know have benefited far more from a short shaft than from a longer shaft. Theoretically, a longer shaft will yield another 2 to 5 mph swingspeed. However, unless one still has great timing and skill - like a senior scratch player or senior tour pro - any gains in swingspeed are more than likely fully offset negatively by the timing issue and by the inability to hit the sweetspot consistently.

I try to get every slow swinging senior player (80 mph or slower) to try a 12 to 14 degree 460 head with a senior flex shaft shortened by 2 to 3 inches from standard. None has ever gone back to super long shafts again.[/quote]
I will have to give that a try, starting with the loft.

[Guia]

A 48 inch shaft is hard to control. I am a senior, average 260 yards and use a 44 or 45 inch stiff shaft. I had several shafts that were 45 plus but had to trade them or have them cut down.

To me anything over 45 I just can't hit consistently. Try an ultralite at 44.5 to 45. My swing speed it 98 - 105, and I am 65 yrs old.

[honketyhank]

I am 63. A couple years ago I tried a 48" shaft in my driver. If all the stars were aligned correctly as I stepped onto the tee, maybe just maybe, I could hit it a bit farther. But for the most part, I couldn't; and for the most part, I hit poorer shots. After a long period of experimentation I came to some conclusions.

As an engineer, I can tell you without question that the concept of longer radius = greater clubhead speed is true IF you assume that you can swing with the same rotational speed and get the clubhead square at whatever rotational velocity you have. 2 BIG ifs.

You need to "turn over" the club through impact. If that is only about the axis of the club shaft, easy. But it isn't. The clubhead is lagging, so you have to apply considerable force (torque) with the wrists to do that because the turning action also helps whip the club through impact. The longer the shaft, the more torque must be applied to get the clubhead square. There is a reason that Hogan and Tiger both had/have forearms like beef roasts. There you go. They can whip the club through the ball just by wrist rotation. Heck, they don't even need a backswing to hit the ball farther than you and i. Beefy forearms and wrists.

As to longer radius = faster clubhead speed. Well, you have to put energy into the swing. Your muscles are capable of only so much application of energy before they tear. What that is, is up to you and your muscle building exercises. But the concept of 'constant rotational speed' in the swing at variable radius (shaft length) is bogus. I swing slower with a 48" driver because I am using all my energy and that is all it will give me with a long driver. All I can do is deliver the energy I have stored in my body. Regardless of how long my driver shaft is, all I can do is deliver all I can. The longer the shaft of the driver, the more energy is required to swing that clubhead at the same speed as before. Take a look at the videos of those trick shot guys swinging 60" or 70" clubs. They swing slo-w-w-w-w-w-w-w-w.

The assumption of constant rotational speed (rpm) is bogus. Same wt clubhead at longer radius requires more energy to turn at same RPM. Period. Isaac Newton and all that.

And ultimately, the amount of energy I deliver to the ball is all that matters. KE=mv[sup]2[/sup], I deliver Kinetic Energy to the ball. My body can apply only so much energy, and with only so much efficiency in conversion to KE. There is no magic reserve of Kinetic Energy I can tap merely by lengthening the shaft of my driver.

So, as an engineer all I can say is you can play around with shaft length and perhaps find a better fit for your body structure. Which in its own right, is good. But don't be looking for a magic aid for extra distance unless your club length was way too short to begin with.

Should seniors go to a longer driver? I would argue the reverse. We have less kinetic energy to deliver and we also have less coordination and flexibility. We can control and deliver a shorter shaft better than a longer shaft as our forearm "roast beefs" shrink. On the rare occasion that the stars are are all aligned, we can hit that 46" driver a bit farther. But realistically, that is an outlier in the statistical universe. 43 or 44 inch drivers are really easier for me to get good results from. And heck, I'll let you use the 48" driver and spot you an extra stroke or two if you haven't used one before.

[Sean2]

[quote name='honketyhank' post='2037979' date='Oct 31 2009, 10:19 PM']I am 63. A couple years ago I tried a 48" shaft in my driver. If all the stars were aligned correctly as I stepped onto the tee, maybe just maybe, I could hit it a bit farther. But for the most part, I couldn't; and for the most part, I hit poorer shots. After a long period of experimentation I came to some conclusions.

As an engineer, I can tell you without question that the concept of longer radius = greater clubhead speed is true IF you assume that you can swing with the same rotational speed and get the clubhead square at whatever rotational velocity you have. 2 BIG ifs.

You need to "turn over" the club through impact. If that is only about the axis of the club shaft, easy. But it isn't. The clubhead is lagging, so you have to apply considerable force (torque) with the wrists to do that because the turning action also helps whip the club through impact. The longer the shaft, the more torque must be applied to get the clubhead square. There is a reason that Hogan and Tiger both had/have forearms like beef roasts. There you go. They can whip the club through the ball just by wrist rotation. Heck, they don't even need a backswing to hit the ball farther than you and i. Beefy forearms and wrists.

As to longer radius = faster clubhead speed. Well, you have to put energy into the swing. Your muscles are capable of only so much application of energy before they tear. What that is, is up to you and your muscle building exercises. But the concept of 'constant rotational speed' in the swing at variable radius (shaft length) is bogus. I swing slower with a 48" driver because I am using all my energy and that is all it will give me with a long driver. All I can do is deliver the energy I have stored in my body. Regardless of how long my driver shaft is, all I can do is deliver all I can. The longer the shaft of the driver, the more energy is required to swing that clubhead at the same speed as before. Take a look at the videos of those trick shot guys swinging 60" or 70" clubs. They swing slo-w-w-w-w-w-w-w-w.

The assumption of constant rotational speed (rpm) is bogus. Same wt clubhead at longer radius requires more energy to turn at same RPM. Period. Isaac Newton and all that.

And ultimately, the amount of energy I deliver to the ball is all that matters. KE=mv[sup]2[/sup], I deliver Kinetic Energy to the ball. My body can apply only so much energy, and with only so much efficiency in conversion to KE. There is no magic reserve of Kinetic Energy I can tap merely by lengthening the shaft of my driver.

So, as an engineer all I can say is you can play around with shaft length and perhaps find a better fit for your body structure. Which in its own right, is good. But don't be looking for a magic aid for extra distance unless your club length was way too short to begin with.

Should seniors go to a longer driver? I would argue the reverse. We have less kinetic energy to deliver and we also have less coordination and flexibility. We can control and deliver a shorter shaft better than a longer shaft as our forearm "roast beefs" shrink. On the rare occasion that the stars are are all aligned, we can hit that 46" driver a bit farther. But realistically, that is an outlier in the statistical universe. 43 or 44 inch drivers are really easier for me to get good results from. And heck, I'll let you use the 48" driver and spot you an extra stroke or two if you haven't used one before.[/quote]
Thank you for your reply. As I said I read an article that suggested that, but was a bit skeptical, which is why I initiated this thread. The consensus seems to be a shorter driver, rather than longer.

[78blades]

[quote name='DefConOne' post='2027564' date='Oct 26 2009, 02:56 PM']I read an article, not sure where, that stated that seniors looking for distance should go with a very light shaft and grip, and the length should be around 48" for the driver.

What do you all think?[/quote]


I really disagree with that. I used to play a 47" driver shaft and yes I could get the drive out there. BUT it is like a virus that will creep into the rest of your game.

I had to flatten my swing out with the driver and it worked well. Flattening out the swing with irons caused me to pull or hook lots of shots. So I've cut my driver shaft down to 45"; haven't lost all that much distance and am now more accurate with the drive.

For the recorded: I'm 61 with a driver ss 104-109 and play a stiff shaft.

[JonT]

I am 61, 5' 5", 150 lbs, and went to a long driver shaft 3 years ago after having been in a auto accident, and unable to generate swing speeds that I had before the accident. I hit 12 of 14 fairways on average, and drive the ball between 230 to 240 yards; my swing speed, last measured with a normal 45" driver, was 90 to 95 mph. My tempo is smooth, although I have a fairly strong move through impact.

I have two of these drivers now; the 1st one I started with (see signature) I had to go to a heavier 70 gram shaft in x-stiff at 46 1/2", (plays more like stiff at that length). The second one I just made up and uses a 47 inch shaft (same shaft model) only in stiff; this one is going past the first by about 10 yards with slightly less accuracy. An added note, I love the heavier feel and higher swing weight of these clubs.

During the last three years I have tried out literally a dozen different drivers with shafts from 44" to 45 1/2" in different lofts (9* to 12*) and flexes; none of the shorter drivers worked out. There was loss of distance in all of them compared to the 46 1/2" driver, and loss of accuracy in some, especially the senior shafted drivers.

I think that longer shafted drivers are a viable option for some and would recommend giving it a chance; I will add that it took me a season to get used to the longer length for consistency, but since then I will not be going to a shorter driver until I am unable to control it, hopefully, many years from now.

[Pepperturbo]

I believe if there was a count taken, there would be more seniors with shorter length shafts then long; however, that count wouldn't reflect much more then outside influence, cost, and what's convenient and easy to take to the tee. Add to the above decision making process, typically seniors don't practice nearly as much as they should or younger golfers and they don't give the decision much in the way of testing, patience and practice to see what really works best. Maybe accumulatively, that contributes to why so many quit improving. my 2cents.

[petter7]

Long shafts seem to aggravate all my aches and pains. Plus, I hit those damn things in the heel too much.

I'll stick with my 45" length, that seems to give me a nice combo of good distance and accuracy.

[clubmaker-online.com]

here's the link to the article DefConOne referenced:
[url="http://www.clubmaker-online.com/senior.ld.html"]http://www.clubmaker-online.com/senior.ld.html[/url]

John

[sanderslongdrive]

To be effective, a driver is swung differently to any iron (even a one iron) and the ball needs to be teed high and hit between one and four degrees on the upstoke. With 460cc heads only tees of between 3.25" and 4" can enable any golfer to correctly get at the ball in the way which a driver was designed for. If one is swinging incorrectly, or using an inadequate angle of attack, or using tees of insufficient length, or inadequately following through, then a longer driver will usually exaggerate all existing faults. Most amateur golfers wrongly swing their drivers in exactly the same way as they swing their irons. How to swing a driver is nicely explained in the book 'How I Play Golf' by Tiger Woods.

When I have lent my 48.50" USGA / 50" LD drivers to any player who is swinging correctly to test then invariably good results have ensued. Age, height, or swing speed are irrelevant factors. It is all down to correct swinging. The longer the club - the less one gets away with by way of poor technique.

A talented golfer able to adjust to the slightly different timing required from a longer driver will usually hit longer with a longer driver up to a point: Sometimes the final allowable inch of club length makes little or no difference.

It almost goes without saying though that it one hits very long with long drivers then accuracy becomes paramount as angles widen with length and rough is never far away on a golf course.

Increasing driver club length does significantly work in terms of ball length if one has the skill to handle it. It is unnecessary to have strong wrists / forearms in order to handle longer drivers. There is much misunderstanding about 'release.' Correct release is best explained in the teaching video - 'Mike Austin. Secrets from the Game's Longest Hitter.' (Peace River Co.) I am in no way connected with the co. or its video.

Incidentally I'm 58 years old and 5'9" tall.

[Sean2]

I'm 6'5" and 54 years old. Due to some right wrist problems I cannot create much lag. At waist height the club is parallel to the ground and not at an angle.

I was hoping to gain more distance because right now I only hit it about 200 to 220 off the tee. I have similar distance problems with all of my clubs. I saw the article about the 48" driver and wondered if there was some truth to it or if it was just snake oil.

[clubmaker-online.com]

at your height it'll be like playing a 44" driver...


John

[Sean2]

[quote name='clubmaker-online.com' post='2050855' date='Nov 7 2009, 07:22 AM']at your height it'll be like playing a 44" driver...


John[/quote]
I was wondering the same thing. I see women that are 5'2" playing 45" drivers and it almost looks like the driver is 50+ inches long. :-)

[docgolf]

The first thing in long 48" drivers is to get the total weight of the club below 300 grams. Most driver heads will weight 200 g +/- 2 grams. You first need a head in the 190 gram range and shaft in the 45-50 gram range and a 42 gram grip. you may have luck calling component golf equipment retailers and requesting a head in the 190 gram range. Another way is to buy a used TM R7 and remove the 12 grams weight, this will give you a head that weights in the 190 gram range. To hit these long drivers you need to flatten the swing and practice, practice. You can increase your overall driver distance from 20-30 yards. Its great for seniors and ladies that have lost some distance.

[Sean2]

[quote name='docgolf' post='2063025' date='Nov 13 2009, 07:02 PM']The first thing in long 48" drivers is to get the total weight of the club below 300 grams. Most driver heads will weight 200 g +/- 2 grams. You first need a head in the 190 gram range and shaft in the 45-50 gram range and a 42 gram grip. you may have luck calling component golf equipment retailers and requesting a head in the 190 gram range. Another way is to buy a used TM R7 and remove the 12 grams weight, this will give you a head that weights in the 190 gram range. To hit these long drivers you need to flatten the swing and practice, practice. You can increase your overall driver distance from 20-30 yards. Its great for seniors and ladies that have lost some distance.[/quote]
I think I could handle it given my height and the fact that I am a smooth swinger. Thanks for your advice Doc, I appreciate it. :-)

[DLiver]

There was a very good thread about this a while back on freegolfinfo. I have a 48" driver and it is a blast. I used to play it all the time, then I lent it to my buddy. He liked it so much, I sold it to him and built another one me. The second didn't quite have the magic of the first one. I started playing it again a while ago and it is a blast to hit. The launch and spin aren't quite right, but it hits bombs.

I think there are players that can play it, and some that can't. I don't buy into the short driver thing. Shorter isn't necessarily better for everyone. Nor is longer.

[Sean2]

I'll probably give it a try. :-)

[teespoon]

I'lll give it a try. I have one D with Cobra 454 Comp head , 9.5*, 45 and a half inch long, and have seen a bit of distance and roll, ..but 48??? Will have to try that!

teespoon

[Sean2]

I lengthened my driver to 48" and have seen very positive results. The key for me is having a smooth transition.

I'm sold. :-)

[DLiver]

Smooth is definitely the key. After you hit a few smooth bombs with it, you will want to hit even bigger bombs with it. Bad idea--trust me.

[JonT]

[quote name='DefConOne' post='2068471' date='Nov 16 2009, 10:25 PM']I lengthened my driver to 48" and have seen very positive results. The key for me is having a smooth transition.

I'm sold. :-)[/quote]

Happy to hear it's working for you;-)

[Sean2]

[quote name='DLiver' post='2068893' date='Nov 17 2009, 07:32 AM']Smooth is definitely the key. After you hit a few smooth bombs with it, you will want to hit even bigger bombs with it. Bad idea--trust me. [/quote]
I know!


[quote name='JonT' post='2068904' date='Nov 17 2009, 07:45 AM'][quote name='DefConOne' post='2068471' date='Nov 16 2009, 10:25 PM']I lengthened my driver to 48" and have seen very positive results. The key for me is having a smooth transition.

I'm sold. :-)[/quote]

Happy to hear it's working for you;-)[/quote]
Thanks. :-)

[mosesgolf]

Or play from the senior tees. IMO, just as they have women's tees, their should be senior tees.