St. Andrews Old course

[phillyspecial]

Playing conditions after Open?

I am doing a 9 day Scotland golf trip for the first time the week after the Open. I have a tee time on the Old course July 28th.


Is this a good time or bad time to experience the Old course for the first time? Are the post tourney conditions favorable due to setup/green speed, or is that offset by it being beat up?

[astamm8]

i've not played the course at all, let alone after an open, but i'm going to say that it's going a fantastic time to play it. they go to great lengths to get the course just right for the tourney, and you're going to benefit from that. sure, crosswalks and gallery areas are going to be run down, but the course should be smashing. and, with the old course, you have to remember that it gets a ton of play normally. the restrict it before the open to bring it into peak condition, so in a lot of ways you should get it in much better shape than normal.

[Lundingolfer]

[quote name='Quincler' date='19 January 2010 - 09:40 PM' timestamp='1263937231' post='2191568']
I am doing a 9 day Scotland golf trip for the first time the week after the Open. I have a tee time on the Old course July 28th.


Is this a good time or bad time to experience the Old course for the first time? Are the post tourney conditions favorable due to setup/green speed, or is that offset by it being beat up?
[/quote]

I Live there it will be inn great shape buty also suggest you play some other courses nearby if you want so idea's you can mail me..

[resist_hard.]

Don't miss out on Kingsbarns.

[phillyspecial]

We are playing Turnberry (both), kingsbarns, New course, Old course, Carnoustie, Dornoch, Nairn, Castle Stuart

Probably also Jubilee or Castle as a 36 hole day after the old course

[highergr0und]

Now that is an awesome golf trip.

[HappyGas]

I've taken two trips to St. Andrews.

Let's just start by saying.....

This will be the greatest golf trip of your life. Period.

Having said that, I also want to make something clear: You will be disappointed in your trip if you focus on the conditions by which you come across on your trip. To experience St. Andrews, you must simply experience it as you find it. Don't ever find yourself looking down as you walk to your ball. Keep your head up and take in all this fantastic place has to offer.

Teeing off on #1 will be the 2nd Greatest Golf Experience of your trip. Standing in front of The Clubhouse and looking at a 100 yard wide FW truly is special. Golf Fans will be watching as you tee off, but don't let that bother you. Play to the left side & you will be fine.

Coming up #18 will indeed be the single Greatest Golf Experience of your life. There is nothing like it. Tourists find themselves taking breaks in their TOUR of the city to watch golfers arrive at the green. It is fantastic...take it all in.

Best advice I have....

Don't judge St. Andrews by the lie you get in the FW............
Do use your putter as often as you can.................................
Be careful on the 7th Green as balls come flying from #11.....

Enjoy the trip.

[3_Jack_Par]

[quote name='Quincler' date='20 January 2010 - 12:45 PM' timestamp='1264009501' post='2193214']
We are playing Turnberry (both), kingsbarns, New course, Old course, Carnoustie, Dornoch, Nairn, Castle Stuart

Probably also Jubilee or Castle as a 36 hole day after the old course
[/quote]
This gave me an erection.

[Carolina Golfer 2]

[quote name='Tiger Jr.' date='20 January 2010 - 02:48 PM' timestamp='1264016929' post='2193413']
[quote name='Quincler' date='20 January 2010 - 12:45 PM' timestamp='1264009501' post='2193214']
We are playing Turnberry (both), kingsbarns, New course, Old course, Carnoustie, Dornoch, Nairn, Castle Stuart

Probably also Jubilee or Castle as a 36 hole day after the old course
[/quote]
This gave me an erection.
[/quote]

LOL!!! That's funny.

The only bad thing about that trip...What does he have in life to look forward to afterward

[mat562]

[quote name='astamm8' date='20 January 2010 - 05:41 AM' timestamp='1263966082' post='2192581']
You have to remember that it gets a ton of play normally. the restrict it before the open to bring it into peak condition, so in a lot of ways you should get it in much better shape than normal.
[/quote]

Excellent point.

I'd expect the Old Course to be in as good condition in late July as at an any time in the last few years. I've been lucky enough to have played there a few times, and considering the sheer volume of traffic that it endures it's invariably in very good condition. The work that's going to be done before the championship can only improve things further.

Some good points were made above about the course itself. If you're expecting a lush, green track akin to one of the manicured jobs that you often see in the U.S.and elsewhere you'll be disappointed. The Old Course doesn't look like a few dozen acres of green carpet. It's a bit ratty in places and is essentially a scrubby bit of common land that's unsuitable for agriculture and which thus ended up as a golf course. That's not to say it's in poor condition; it's simply the case that it's beauty lies in the fact that it isn't perfect or pristine. It's pure golf, just like any other top notch links course. It's natural and elemental in nature.

The town and the courses (as there are several other good ones) are all great, and it's invariably a treat to visit the place or play golf there. I once heard Peter Alliss describe a fogbound Old Course as somewhere where "you can almost believe the little people are out, weaving their magic spells" which sums it up perfectly for me.

Enjoy it. And you [i]will [/i]thoroughly enjoy it, particularly in the summer.

[3_Jack_Par]

[quote name='Carolina Golfer 2' date='20 January 2010 - 03:06 PM' timestamp='1264017990' post='2193444']
[quote name='Tiger Jr.' date='20 January 2010 - 02:48 PM' timestamp='1264016929' post='2193413']
[quote name='Quincler' date='20 January 2010 - 12:45 PM' timestamp='1264009501' post='2193214']
We are playing Turnberry (both), kingsbarns, New course, Old course, Carnoustie, Dornoch, Nairn, Castle Stuart

Probably also Jubilee or Castle as a 36 hole day after the old course
[/quote]
This gave me an erection.
[/quote]

LOL!!! That's funny.

The only bad thing about that trip...What does he have in life to look forward to afterward
[/quote]
That's true. I played the Old Course and Royal Dornoch (and one other non-famous course in Ayrshire) when I was in Scotland in September last year, and they were two of my three greatest golf experiences in my life.
I would actually say that the tee shot on the Road Hole (and the picture my caddie took of me ripping my drive over the shed) was the #1 highlight of the round. The course was in beautiful color when I was there, mainly because it rained for most of August. Regardless, they take great care of the course, even if it isn't bright green all the time. They focus on great playability. Links golf is also quite an adjustment compared to American courses -- you have to account for roll a lot more. Even on well struck shots from the fairway, I still had to plan for about 20 feet of roll. And the effect of the wind on putts was something fairly new to me. If a putt was into the wind, it required a lot of extra mustard to get it to the hole, and downwind putts required a very gentle touch.

I figure since I only played the three courses, I need to make several more trips back to experience some of the greats and hidden gems.

[phillyspecial]

Thanks guys for all the replies, very much appreciated. I am lucky enough to be making this first trip at a young age (33). My father in law (got married in '09) made his first trip 2 yrs ago and this summer will be the third he is organizing. The cost rationale only works with my wife since I am going with him...now if she can only stop bugging me about my golf "obsession"!!!


I have read up on the Scotland experience a bit and am not expecting the pristine courses of the US. I am just hopeful the Open conditions will hold up until we get on. I have read enough golf history to appreciate what makes St. Andrews and Scottish golf special.


In the meantime I want to study up on how to play the Old course so I can make the most of my round. Need to figure out how to practice the shots I will need there.

Any ideas on best way to prepare to play Links golf?

[makkkos]

Any local parking lot should do nicely. Actually, the advice above about using your putter as often as possible is so true. I've played Bandon Dunes on multiple occasions and made a tour of northeast Ireland in 2008 and the putter comes in real handy from 20-30 yards from the green on occasion. You're in for the trip of a lifetime. Enjoy!

[HappyGas]

In my experience....

Links Golf is all about using your imagination.

You'll keep the ball lower to the ground on basically every shot you hit. You'll use your putter way, way more than you do over here. If the wind blows, you'll find yourself clubbing up 3-4 clubs and hitting little "chip shots" with mid--long irons that are intended to get on the ground quickly and roll. And roll....and roll....and roll. Shots might roll 75 yards. Look at what happened to Watson on the 72nd last summer.

Do this....

Go find a public course where you live. Hit balls from 140 yards....120 yards....100 yards....75 yards. Take 4 clubs higher from each distance and see if you can hit the greens.

At St. Andrews you will hit some of your best shots that turn out just terrible & you will hit absolute worm burners that turn our FANTASTIC. True.

[[[[On #9 at The Old Course I ROLLLED a tee shot that made it all the way to the green ((and this was a short PAR 4 !!!!)).]]]

You'll love The New Course ((better golf than The Old Course)) & Kingsbarns is fantastic although it will remind you a lot of what you can see here in the states ((Bandon, etc.)) The Back 9 at Jubilee is the toughest 9 hole stretch on any of the St. Andrews Courses. Finishing holes at Carnoustie are just downright TOUGH. Harriington & Van de Velde has plenty of excuses....they are MONSTERS.

Trip of a lifetime....ENJOY.

[umassgolfer]

That trip sounds AWESOME!! I bet you're counting the hours already...

Keep in mind with the Old Course (or any pro venue) the week after the tournament there will be a significant amount of work being down to tear down the hospitality, stands, etc. that is built for the event. The course itself should be in phenomenal shape but the ambiance of it may be altered a bit.

Let us know how the trip goes.

[3_Jack_Par]

[quote name='Quincler' date='20 January 2010 - 04:25 PM' timestamp='1264022749' post='2193617']
In the meantime I want to study up on how to play the Old course so I can make the most of my round. Need to figure out how to practice the shots I will need there.

Any ideas on best way to prepare to play Links golf?


[/quote]
Believe me, you won't even care what you shoot at the Old Course the first time -- the thrill of playing there overrides any concerns about the number on the card. I was actually a little bummed that I never hit into a bunker there, even if it would have cost me a stroke or two.
When playing the Old Course just remember, it's almost impossible to be too far left. Right is dead on almost every hole. I remember hitting a vicious snap hook off the tee on one of the first few holes, and I had one of the best angles into the green that I saw all day.
And on #11, don't leave yourself above the hole if you want to keep your putt on the green. They call it "The shortest par 5 in Scotland" (it's a par 3) for a reason
In general, expect wind, and learn to hit play along the ground, especially around the greens. It's hard to replicate that type of shot on a lot of courses in the States, but if you can find a place with tightly mown areas around the greens, it would be good practice for links golf. That's not to say that you can't chip, but the firmness of the courses makes it often a better option to keep your ball on the ground.

[mat562]

To be honest, the course can play markedly different from one day to the next, depending upon the hardness of the ground and, particularly, upon the strength and direction of the wind.

As is the case with pretty much all links golf, there are a few stock shots that it will pay dividends to at least familiarise yourself with in the next few months. I'd spend some time learning to hit shots that keep the ball down; either developing a true punch shot, or simply by learning to place the ball back in your stance and make an easy, quiet swing that doesn't generate a lot of spin and so gives a lower, running shot.

The greens, and the shots you'll face approaching them are highly unusual - even for a links course. The sheer size of the greens and the style of the approaches to them (often at St Andrews, the fairways and the greens merge, seamlessly, and you'll struggle to find any point where one ends and the other starts) mean that you can be left with very challenging approaches from long range that, even though they are devoid of hazards, can be very difficult to judge the distance of owing to a lack of any real perspective. 40 and 50 yard putts are common and there are several holes where it's possible - at least in theory - to take a putter from an unheard of distance. Practice your long putting (possibly at somewhere like the famous Himalayas putting green once you're there) simply to get a feel for some of the slopes and distances that you'll encounter and to give yourself a feel of what it's like to hit a putter 30, 40 or 50 yards and through some pronounced humps and hollows.

Above all, get a good yardage book or, if you're rowing the boat out, a local caddie - as it's vital to have a grasp of where to hit the ball from the tee and on a few approaches. Often, the lines of play aren't all that obvious and, as you're no doubt already aware, there are myriad innocuous little bunkers, some not much bigger than the golfer himself, which have an infuriating ability to gobble up golf balls. The bunkers at St Andrews are true one shot penalties. Invariably it's a wedge or something similar to get out and often just getting the ball back into play can be an achievement. Many of the fairway bunkers are perfectly placed and very much in play, as well as being invisible if you're not forewarned. There's little worse than hitting what you think is a good drive only to find it gobbled up by sand. Give yourself a fighting chance of at least [i]planning[/i] to miss them, rather than finding out about the them for the first time when you find your ball in one of the things.

Tight lies are the order of the day at St Andrews, particularly in the summer months when the fairways dry out. If you're more confident playing from a grassier sort of lie, or used to routinely playing from lush fairways, I'd certainly invest a bit of time in hitting some balls from the tightest, barest lie you can find at home. Hit off hardpan or similar, simply to get a feel for the sort of strike that's needed.

As someone above mentioned, links golf is generally played far more along the ground than much of the golf that's played in the U.S. Landing the ball short is the order of the day most of the time, and in really firm conditions it's common to see golfers landing their approaches twenty or thirty yards short of the intended target - or more - in order to let the ball release, even with a normally-flighted shot. It's not necessary to play your way round hitting [i]every shot[/i] quail high, but you will certainly need to allow for some run, however high you hit the ball. Flying every approach all the way to the hole isn't going to work, even if you naturally flight the ball toweringly high.
For the most part, the greens are open in front, and so naturally accomodate and encourage a running sort of shot. The course is very fair, and provided you play the correct type of shot you're usually given a fair chance of being able to execute it.

The short game, too, is played very much along the ground, with chip and runs being the most common tactic and all sorts of shots with all sorts of clubs being used as the situation demands. It may be difficult to simulate a true links experience at your home club, with greens that may not be anything like as firm as you'll find, but it's worth trying your hand at a few running chips with a few different clubs - up to, and including mid, or even [i]long[/i] irons - to get a feel for the stroke and the strike and how the ball reacts. It'll definitely be a shot that you'll find useful.

Tactics-wise, the rule of thumb at St Andrews has always held that it's a hooker's course, with all the trouble down the right; and the prevailing wind is generally helping on the first half a dozen holes, coming from pretty much over your right shoulder. The homeward nine [i]tends[/i] to play[i] [/i]more into the wind and is generally considered the harder nine in my experience. Many players routinely play to the left sides of the fairways from the tee with no real disadvantage to doing so, but there are a few holes where it's a definite advantage to play down the right and improve the angle of approach.

One thing I've always concentrated on when I play there, or on any other links course with firm, fast-running links greens, is my short putting. A typical round at St Andrews will leave you with a lot of putts in the 4-10 foot range. It's often difficult to get approaches and chips stone dead, and you'll often find the ball just running on an annoying extra two or three feet before it stops, thus leaving you a testing putt for birdie or par. Making those sorts of putts can be the difference between scoring well or not in my experience, so it's worth spending a bit of extra time in that area to groove your stroke.

If the worst happens and you do find sand, some of the bunkers are truly worryingly deep with fearsome faces. Hell Bunker, on the 14th, and Strath (fronting the 11th hole) are incredible things when you stand in them and stare at the revetted faces that are more than head-high. Discretion is the better part of valour and all that, and the best option is invariably to take the safest option when it comes to getting out of the things, but you may want to spend a bit of time honing your ability to get the ball coming out very steeply from the sand. It's a shot that you may well need. It's quite a fluffy sand at St Andrews, almost like beach sand (in fact, you'll often find fragments of shell in the bunkers) and quite powdery in comparison to that used at a lot of courses.

Other than that, simply go out and enjoy your day. If you hit the ball decently and don't make too many tactical errors, a decent golfer -even one unfamilar with the course and links golf - should be capable of scoring nicely in any sort of reasonable conditions. Whatever you shoot, you're guaranteed to remember your first round on the Old Course. I can remember pretty much every shot of mine and it's twenty years or so ago now. Whatever you think of the course it's an experience that every keen golfer should experience.

[3_Jack_Par]

[quote name='mat562' date='20 January 2010 - 05:20 PM' timestamp='1264026021' post='2193721']
To be honest, the course can play markedly different from one day to the next, depending upon the hardness of the ground and, particularly, upon the strength and direction of the wind.

As is the case with pretty much all links golf, there are a few stock shots that it will pay dividends to at least familiarise yourself with in the next few months. I'd spend some time learning to hit shots that keep the ball down; either developing a true punch shot, or simply by learning to place the ball back in your stance and make an easy, quiet swing that doesn't generate a lot of spin and so gives a lower, running shot.

The greens, and the shots you'll face approaching them are highly unusual - even for a links course. The sheer size of the greens and the style of the approaches to them (often at St Andrews, the fairways and the greens merge, seamlessly, and you'll struggle to find any point where one ends and the other starts) mean that you can be left with very challenging approaches from long range that, even though they are devoid of hazards, can be very difficult to judge the distance of owing to a lack of any real perspective. 40 and 50 yard putts are common and there are several holes where it's possible - at least in theory - to take a putter from an unheard of distance. Practice your long putting (possibly at somewhere like the famous Himalayas putting green once you're there) simply to get a feel for some of the slopes and distances that you'll encounter and to give yourself a feel of what it's like to hit a putter 30, 40 or 50 yards and through some pronounced humps and hollows.

Above all, get a good yardage book or, if you're rowing the boat out, a local caddie - as it's vital to have a grasp of where to hit the ball from the tee and on a few approaches. Often, the lines of play aren't all that obvious and, as you're no doubt already aware, there are myriad innocuous little bunkers, some not much bigger than the golfer himself, which have an infuriating ability to gobble up golf balls. The bunkers at St Andrews are true one shot penalties. Invariably it's a wedge or something similar to get out and often just getting the ball back into play can be an achievement. Many of the fairway bunkers are perfectly placed and very much in play, as well as being invisible if you're not forewarned. There's little worse than hitting what you think is a good drive only to find it gobbled up by sand. Give yourself a fighting chance of at least [i]planning[/i] to miss them, rather than finding out about the them for the first time when you find your ball in one of the things.

Tight lies are the order of the day at St Andrews, particularly in the summer months when the fairways dry out. If you're more confident playing from a grassier sort of lie, or used to routinely playing from lush fairways, I'd certainly invest a bit of time in hitting some balls from the tightest, barest lie you can find at home. Hit off hardpan or similar, simply to get a feel for the sort of strike that's needed.

As someone above mentioned, links golf is generally played far more along the ground than much of the golf that's played in the U.S. Landing the ball short is the order of the day most of the time, and in really firm conditions it's common to see golfers landing their approaches twenty or thirty yards short of the intended target - or more - in order to let the ball release, even with a normally-flighted shot. It's not necessary to play your way round hitting [i]every shot[/i] quail high, but you will certainly need to allow for some run, however high you hit the ball. Flying every approach all the way to the hole isn't going to work, even if you naturally flight the ball toweringly high.
For the most part, the greens are open in front, and so naturally accomodate and encourage a running sort of shot. The course is very fair, and provided you play the correct type of shot you're usually given a fair chance of being able to execute it.

The short game, too, is played very much along the ground, with chip and runs being the most common tactic and all sorts of shots with all sorts of clubs being used as the situation demands. It may be difficult to simulate a true links experience at your home club, with greens that may not be anything like as firm as you'll find, but it's worth trying your hand at a few running chips with a few different clubs - up to, and including mid, or even [i]long[/i] irons - to get a feel for the stroke and the strike and how the ball reacts. It'll definitely be a shot that you'll find useful.

Tactics-wise, the rule of thumb at St Andrews has always held that it's a hooker's course, with all the trouble down the right; and the prevailing wind is generally helping on the first half a dozen holes, coming from pretty much over your right shoulder. The homeward nine [i]tends[/i] to play[i] [/i]more into the wind and is generally considered the harder nine in my experience. Many players routinely play to the left sides of the fairways from the tee with no real disadvantage to doing so, but there are a few holes where it's a definite advantage to play down the right and improve the angle of approach.

One thing I've always concentrated on when I play there, or on any other links course with firm, fast-running links greens, is my short putting. A typical round at St Andrews will leave you with a lot of putts in the 4-10 foot range. It's often difficult to get approaches and chips stone dead, and you'll often find the ball just running on an annoying extra two or three feet before it stops, thus leaving you a testing putt for birdie or par. Making those sorts of putts can be the difference between scoring well or not in my experience, so it's worth spending a bit of extra time in that area to groove your stroke.

If the worst happens and you do find sand, some of the bunkers are truly worryingly deep with fearsome faces. Hell Bunker, on the 14th, and Strath (fronting the 11th hole) are incredible things when you stand in them and stare at the revetted faces that are more than head-high. Discretion is the better part of valour and all that, and the best option is invariably to take the safest option when it comes to getting out of the things, but you may want to spend a bit of time honing your ability to get the ball coming out very steeply from the sand. It's a shot that you may well need. It's quite a powdery sand at St Andrews, almost like beach sand (in fact, you'll often find fragments of shell in the bunkers) and quite powdery in comparison to that used at a lot of courses.

Other than that, simply go out and enjoy your day. If you hit the ball decently and don't make too many tactical errors, a decent golfer -even one unfamilar with the course and links golf - should be capable of scoring nicely in any sort of reasonable conditions. Whatever you shoot, you're guaranteed to remember your first round on the Old Course. I can remember pretty much every shot of mine and it's twenty years or so ago now. Whatever you think of the course it's an experience that every keen golfer should experience.
[/quote]

Beautifully put.

[Ace In The Hole]

[quote name='Quincler' date='20 January 2010 - 12:45 PM' timestamp='1264009501' post='2193214']
We are playing Turnberry (both), kingsbarns, New course, Old course, Carnoustie, Dornoch, Nairn, Castle Stuart

Probably also Jubilee or Castle as a 36 hole day after the old course
[/quote]

If you don't mind me asking, what is something like this running you $$$$ those are some amazing venues, if I played one of those courses before I kick off I'd be happy! I think Carnoustie would be at the top of the list, then the New and Old course.

[astamm8]

i've got to add that you might see one of the best conditioned courses you'll ever see at the old courses, for me anyway. i thought that hoylake was stunning in 2006, and there was hardly any green anywhere. you're not going to find that anywhere stateside (short of maybe newport cc), and i'd take it anyday or lush green. and if it's a dry summer if fife, that's what you'll have. that's what i'd wish for myself.

[triplebogeyblues]

[quote name='Ace In The Hole' date='20 January 2010 - 08:56 PM' timestamp='1264035381' post='2194044']
[quote name='Quincler' date='20 January 2010 - 12:45 PM' timestamp='1264009501' post='2193214']
We are playing Turnberry (both), kingsbarns, New course, Old course, Carnoustie, Dornoch, Nairn, Castle Stuart

Probably also Jubilee or Castle as a 36 hole day after the old course
[/quote]

If you don't mind me asking, what is something like this running you $$ those are some amazing venues, if I played one of those courses before I kick off I'd be happy! I think Carnoustie would be at the top of the list, then the New and Old course.
[/quote]

haha.. i was wondering the same thing. I know Kingsbarns was like 115 pnds and Castle Course was 125 pnds when we played it about a year ago, and thats when it was 50 cents to a pound. I think the conversion has improved slightly.

If you aren't rich, it is definitely a trip you want to save up for if you plan to play the world renowned courses. Your money can dissappear very quickly with the current state of the dollar!