What makes the finest persimmon?

[Extreme Firepower]

Thought I'd throw this out there for the experts.

 

I read somewhere in the deep and distant past that the best persimmon

came from the base of tree, just above where you would cut down a tree to

the stump.

 

Also, the best grade of persimmon was the lightest wood with the least

amount of speckling and grain. Blonde woods were higher priced because

they had no visible grain and speckling therefore staining them ruined

the natural beauty of the wood.

 

Is this true?

 

Any other factual information of the wood would be good. Naturally dried, versus

oil hardening versus other methods of processing the wood.

[freddiec]

I'm no expert, but love the topic. I know that the persimmon that was used back in the hey day did come from very old trees that were deep in the forest of places like Pennsysvania. "Virgiana" hard wood was often what was used. These trees sat next to rivers a lot of times and hard to get to. I think you were right about the section of the tree (lower section) produced really good hard wood. I think Blonde finishes were used to highlight the attractive grain structure in the head so it could be viseable to the player from my experience. Dark freckly like spotting in the wood or carbon was often seen as well in some of these woods which meant the wood came from the lower section of a very old tree. This usually meant the wood was very hard. Most tour players chose blocks that had tight U grain structure which meant the wood was very dense and hard.

Thats just the wood. The most important part was the process of sculpting a beautiful head for the player.

Wood Bros oil hardened their woods, this process was similiar to what MacGregor did with their woods. The wood would be soaked in oil for a period of time, then they would let is bake in the sun for a period like 3 months. This process made the block harder and heavier. I think the process was referred to "oil hardened to weight", but don't quote me on that one. I'm pretty sure companies like Cleveland Classic did something similiar.

I've received my education from Dave Wood, founder of WB.

[RobotDoctor]

I have been told by several people, including my former clubsmith, that the preferred wood was indeed from sections in the lower part of an old tree. Typically old trees were trees over 80 years old. The wood tended to be a little naturally darker in color, an indication of old growth persimmon. In addition to Pennsylvania and Virginia, Tennessee was another area of "harvest" for golf club persimmon. If you notice a lot of the older persimmon woods compared to newer persimmon of the 70s-90s (Cleveland Classics, etc) the natural wood tended to be much darker, from a tan to light brown (in rare cases). Blonde colored natural wood was typically from upper parts of the persimmon tree or from younger trees.

My former clubsmith is a protege of Toney Penna, having worked for him in the 70s. Mike had restored, refinished, and build clubs for the likes of Arnold Palmer, Lee Trevino, Ben Crenshaw and many other touring professionals. Mike had a M43 3-wood that Greg Norman offered over $1,000 for back in the mid 80s. That 3-wood had the darkest natural wood I had ever seen and it was hard. Seeing what Mike would work on started my love for the MacGregors.

[profsmitty]

Remember seeing this on the Louisville Golf Website. I think it will answer the question - maybe. (Remember to keep hitting the "next chapter" button until the end). This quite a read for those of us with the persimmon disease.

[url="http://www.louisvillegolf.com/story_article.php?article=MzM3MXN1cGVyMzM2OHNlY3JldDMzNzU%3D"]Story of persimmon[/url]

[freddiec]

George,
Thats a great read. Lots of fantastic info..

[Bella Woods]

The link that smith5606 posted is actually the "online version" of a 1984 book written by Elmore Just
(Founder of Louisville Golf) called The Persimmon Story. Its a great book and I have read it many times
over. Louisville Golf used to sell it, I don't know if they do anymore.

The key to quality persimmon according to Just is the drying process. The process used on the classic
woods is the reason he believed they were popular with the professionals. He believed the combination
of the old growth persimmon with how they were dried was the key to quality, and who would know
better than Elmore Just?

The actual color of the persimmon was actually a direct result of the drying process as well, nothing to do with
the age of the tree or location (top or bottom etc). He says its the reason you normally did not see blonde or
natural woods in the classic club period, the wood was to dark after drying to do it.

Oil hardening was a process to seal the wood from moisture, nothing more. It disappeared because it was
creating a weight problem for the manufacturers. MacGregor dropped it in 1958 with no fanfare, but the
term lives on in legend.

There was a time when all commercial persimmon was cut within 200 miles of Memphis, Tennessee!

[Maxwell]

[size="4"][color="#8b0000"]I was told when I started Persimmon woods 3R's to read "Elmore Justs" booklet entitled," The Persimmon Story". Found a copy in the U.K. and read it, read it again and still read it.
Over the few years I've owned it, I have noticed how difficult it has become to find a copy and how it has increased in value. If you can find a copy - get one!
Air drying persimmon or air/kiln drying persimmon seems to be a key ingrediant to the start of a very good quality persimmon wood golf club. Read chapter 5 of the booklet. [/color][/size]

[Bella Woods]

Right on the nose Max, Chapter Five is the key!

P.S. Nice Clubs!