Diamond-backed blades?

[jmck]

MacGregor, Tommy Armour, etc.

I just picked these up. Any one have any idea about them? I've never seen a "c" in a circle stamping ike this before. I guess it stands for custom? They're in pretty nice shape. Almost all of the original ferrule trim rings are still there. Nice square toe. Very small sweet spot!









There was a bit of interest in diamond backed blades after Norman's run with a set at the 2008 Open. Anyone out there a collector of diamond backed blades? Anyone retired from MacGregor who could chime in? Seems like there's a lot of variations on the theme, but that they maybe never quite built the same set twice. Maybe we can add some more pictures of different models to this thread as time goes by.

[ChristianMc]

What fabulous clubs!
I have never seen a stamping like that either. The famous diamond back model was the SS1 which was produced between 1958 ('recessed weight') to 1960 (with the addition of the FC4000 stamp and faces in 1959). These were under the Tommy Armour label of those years. Nicklaus used the SS1 irons and driver between 1958 and 1966 (I think). Apart from that I don't know of any other model of diamond back's that MacGregor produced except for the custom copies of the SS design in the 80's. With the Tourney lite shaft in the featured irons these look like they are from the 70's (early). These irons also feature the face frame stamp that was used at that time for some models (MT irons of the early 70's?). I know that in 1966 Mac produced the Tommy Armour Black Scot irons which probably used old SS heads with a medium grade shaft just to use up the left over stock. These could be SS heads used in a later custom build for a buyer who had a stamping design which Mac was willing to do in this case. Could be a very individual set of irons. Quite lovely!
Christian
Attached is a pic of some of my SS2's from 59;

[drewspin]

MacGregor did custom club logos for country clubs. My guess is that the design above was some sort of country club logo on circa 1980 Tourney Custom blades.

[jmck]

Thanks for the replies--and the pictures! I too considered that they might be from the 80s custom program but thought that the shafts and ferrules sugguested an early 70s vintage. It's a good thought though....can anyone think of a O_____ Country Club that uses/used that type of logo? That could explain the stampings. Maybe they have a flag design that is represented by the colors in the ferrule trim rings. There's Olympic, but these were found in Virginia with shaft labels with a Virginia address on them that I suspect is from the original owner. I can't think of any O___ CCs in Virginia. Seems like an odd and unique set either way. Like Christian said, there's a lot about them that sugguests they were made well after the original ones from the late 50s and early 60s, but before the custom department ones from the 80s. Another mystery.....

Keep those pics coming!

[astamm8]

[quote name='drewspin' date='02 March 2010 - 04:19 PM' timestamp='1267575594' post='2288954']
MacGregor did custom club logos for country clubs. My guess is that the design above was some sort of country club logo on circa 1980 Tourney Custom blades.
[/quote]

that's definitely my guess as well. no thoughts on an occ, but's not olympic as that club is just 'Olympic Club' without country (in fact the main and oldest part of the club is right in the city).

[bma725]

Not anywhere near Virginia, but that looks very similar to the old logo of Ozaukee Country Club in Wisconsin.

[pretzelbag]

Here are two photos of some PGA Tommy Armour Diamond Scot clubs (men's -- unrelated to the women's version of recent vintage) that I first owned in 1983 or so, when they were new. I remember choosing these over the Dave Pelz Featherweight irons that were the fad that year, and I'm glad I did. My original set was stolen in 1996 but in 2009 I found another set on eBay.

The sand wedge, which is beautiful in a classic way, is the only club that does not have the diamond weighting.

And the shiny finish is so retro -- I love it. I put my late-model Titleists in the closet last year and have been playing these exclusively. Sure, the sweet spot is the size of a pencil eraser, but the sound and the feel is incredible, not to mention the ball flight. The thin top line is like a creased piece of paper.

I have never seen another set of these (either in person or a photo), but they are so similar to the MacGregor SS1/SS2/CF4000 models that I cannot believe these are from a different factory. My guess is that PGA and/or Tommy Armour had MacGregor make these for a private label club, likely sold only at country club pro shops.

[Staffer]

[quote name='jmck' timestamp='1267569998' post='2288761']
I just picked these up. Any one have any idea about them? I've never seen a "c" in a circle stamping ike this before. I guess it stands for custom? They're in pretty nice shape. Almost all of the original ferrule trim rings are still there. Nice square toe. Very small sweet spot!

There was a bit of interest in diamond backed blades after Norman's run with a set at the 2008 Open. Anyone out there a collector of diamond backed blades? Anyone retired from MacGregor who could chime in? Seems like there's a lot of variations on the theme, but that they maybe never quite built the same set twice. Maybe we can add some more pictures of different models to this thread as time goes by.
[/quote]

I have never hit diamond backs, and I thought I would ask those of you who do: Is the sweetspot located right in front of the center of the diamond?

Looking at the pictures in the post that would put the sweetspot a great deal closer to the toe of the club that many of the older musclebacks. I have a set of wilson staffs, and the sweetspot is located very, very close to the heel of the club.

Br - Johan

[professor_doom]

Probably a country club logo. My brother's PW is a custom Mac with a logo on the back--some intensive Google searching revealed it to be the crest of Indian Hills Country Club in Kansas City. Somehow or other it found its way into the used club bin at a muni near Washington, DC. Not a diamond back, although he loves it--his "go-to" club for any shot where it's remotely appropriate.

I love how square the toes are on jmck's diamond-backs. And pretzelbag, is that the original finish, or did you have them re-chromed? They look awesome!

Diamond-back users: do you find that the diamond weighting lowers the ball flight compared to other blade styles? If it does, maybe it's time for me to look for a set.

[jmck]

Nice to see this thread back (and with more pictures!).

[quote name='pretzelbag' timestamp='1282066743' post='2645048']

/snip

And the shiny finish is so retro -- I love it. I put my late-model Titleists in the closet last year and have been playing these exclusively. [b]Sure, the sweet spot is the size of a pencil eraser, but the sound and the feel is incredible, not to mention the ball flight. [/b]The thin top line is like a creased piece of paper.

[/quote]

Exactly right. Sounds like a rifle shot and feels like nothing. The MP-32 generation doesn't know what they're missing.

On sweet spot location, it's a little tough to say. Maybe not as heel centric as other clubs from that time, but not quite the center of the face either. It looks like the PGA Diamond Scot version from the 80s has a lot more meat in the toe part of the diamond than the earlier versions. Maybe a more centered sweet spot there? Ball flight is definitely low compared to modern blades, and maybe a little lower than most classic blades. Flight is very very penetrating--very strong. A really heavy feel from the factory--I haven't swingweighted them, but I'd guess at least D4 or D5. Heavy stiff shafts. If I was going to play them more I'd want to put in Dynalite S300s, but for me my set feels like a good one to keep all original.

Great great clubs. Just, you know, bring your A game....

[daiblair]

Hi, I have a set of SS2s "black face" Tommy Armour irons which I picked up on ebay for £20 - 2-9 plus 11 iron and a DS wedge with original . I have owned them for around 3 years and never hit them until last evening. First impression - the feel, absolutely amazing after the modern AP2s I use currently. Also the flight of the ball was high and penetrating. The diamond back weighting does have some effects, the sweet spot seems to be pretty close to the centre and higher on the face so the swing has to be down into the ball taking a reasonable sized divot to get the best results. They do not respond at all to a "sweep" or "pick off the top" type motion. The longer irons are more difficult to hit - naturally I guess. I hit the 5 iron pretty well, but the 4 iron really took some concentration and effort. I also have a set of the "recessed weight" Tourneys with "copper face" - I haven't hit those but imagine they would be similar.

I also read that when MacGregor manufactured clubs the heads would be ground by different people - one guy doing 4 irons another doing 5 irons and so on. Also that one guys idea of what looked right did not necessarily match the next guy on the line. This has to be true as the 4 and 5 irons in my SS2s are quite different to one another.

This would not apply to custom sets of course which would all be ground by one man - so I really envy you the Tourney Customs!

[hollabachgt]

it's very possible the stamp is from [url="http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_AlnfPifveBU/SzE9MMF0-II/AAAAAAAAATM/7VkrwgRZdso/s1600/oakmont_logo.jpg"]Oakmont[/url]

[pretzelbag]

[quote name='professor_doom' timestamp='1282126910' post='2646572']
And pretzelbag, is that the original finish, or did you have them re-chromed? They look awesome!

Diamond-back users: do you find that the diamond weighting lowers the ball flight compared to other blade styles? If it does, maybe it's time for me to look for a set.
[/quote]

Professor,

Those are the original finish. All I ever do is wipe them down with a wet towel after each round (or shot) and a quick scrub to the clubface every few weeks or so. I can blind my playing competitors if they start making fun of my old clubs...and could probably cook a hot dog if I arranged the backs of the clubs in some sort of semicircle (like the parabolic thing you use when camping)

I cannot believe that I found on eBay a set that was basically unhit 15+ years after manufacturing ended. The clubs had the original shafts and even the original Gold Pride Victory ("Grip Rite / Swing Rite") grips with the lowercase "pga" logo appearing on the butt end (where "Golf Pride" usually is, around the circle where the word "Victory" appears).

I've never hit another set of blades (no need to!) so can't comment about the flight elevation, but I usually hit a high ball anyway and had these clubs bent 2 degrees strong (as well as upright -- I am 6'3"). I can say that I find the ball flight to be very penetrating. When I hit a 6-iron just right, the sound of impact combined with the sound of the ball zooming off is sweet music. When I hit it off the hosel, the sound is a little less pleasing!

[pretzelbag]

[quote name='jmck' timestamp='1282149062' post='2647119']
Ball flight is definitely low compared to modern blades, and maybe a little lower than most classic blades. Flight is very very penetrating--very strong. A really heavy feel from the factory--I haven't swingweighted them, but I'd guess at least D4 or D5. Heavy stiff shafts. If I was going to play them more I'd want to put in Dynalite S300s, but for me my set feels like a good one to keep all original.

Great great clubs. Just, you know, bring your A game....
[/quote]
I had my Tommy Armour PGA Diamond Scots measured after I received them. In the attached image (can't figure out a way to include a table using BB Code) are the specs and swing weights with the standard stock shafts (True Temper Dynamic R flex, silver sticker with "84I21570" on it).

Please note that I did not look for these measurements to be super-exact as I planned to reshaft the clubs immediately afterward (I play shafts 1" over the stock measurements).

In case you're curious,I reshafted them with Aerotech Steelfiber i95 stiff shafts (what Matt Kuchar uses). I was hoping to go with steel but after hitting the Aerotech, I could not turn back. They are graphite but have a dark silver color due to the steel fiber wrapping, so they look somewhat traditional. Besides, someone who makes fun of my shafts gets a message in the form of a blinding by the sun off my chrome at the next tee.

[jmck]

[quote name='hollabachgt' timestamp='1282149699' post='2647140']
it's very possible the stamp is from [url="http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_AlnfPifveBU/SzE9MMF0-II/AAAAAAAAATM/7VkrwgRZdso/s1600/oakmont_logo.jpg"]Oakmont[/url]
[/quote]

Boy that would be too cool if it's Oakmont. It sure looks very similar. Thanks for the link!

[astamm8]

[quote name='jmck' timestamp='1282337868' post='2651822']
[quote name='hollabachgt' timestamp='1282149699' post='2647140']
it's very possible the stamp is from [url="http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_AlnfPifveBU/SzE9MMF0-II/AAAAAAAAATM/7VkrwgRZdso/s1600/oakmont_logo.jpg"]Oakmont[/url]
[/quote]

Boy that would be too cool if it's Oakmont. It sure looks very similar. Thanks for the link!
[/quote]

For my money, that's the same logo; Oakmont it is.

[Chappie]

Yeah good call, that looks just like Oakmont's logo.

[Guest]

[quote name='ChristianMc' timestamp='1267570613' post='2288785']
What fabulous clubs!
I have never seen a stamping like that either. The famous diamond back model was the SS1 which was produced between 1958 ('recessed weight') to 1960 (with the addition of the FC4000 stamp and faces in 1959). These were under the Tommy Armour label of those years. Nicklaus used the SS1 irons and driver between 1958 and 1966 (I think). Apart from that I don't know of any other model of diamond back's that MacGregor produced except for the custom copies of the SS design in the 80's. With the Tourney lite shaft in the featured irons these look like they are from the 70's (early). These irons also feature the face frame stamp that was used at that time for some models (MT irons of the early 70's?). I know that in 1966 Mac produced the Tommy Armour Black Scot irons which probably used old SS heads with a medium grade shaft just to use up the left over stock. These could be SS heads used in a later custom build for a buyer who had a stamping design which Mac was willing to do in this case. Could be a very individual set of irons. Quite lovely!
Christian
Attached is a pic of some of my SS2's from 59;
[/quote]

Thanks for posting this picture of your SS2s, it made me dig out my set of 2 to 9 and my old Mac woods. I played the whole set including the 2 iron , which is scarey given the size of it. I have posted pics
Jeff

[dpark]

Those are some very cool blades. I have a commemorative set of TP63 blades from Macgregor that also have the diamonds framing the scoring lines.

[jmck]

I love those TP-63s. Especially the ferrules! Just so classic. I think all of my favorite Macs throughout the years have the small diamonds on either side of the scoring lines. Really frames the ball nicely.

[Mattro]

Love the looks of all the classic old blades with the diamond backs. Anyone else notice and or think it's funny that every pic above of the Tommy Armours are spelled wrong? I also had 2 different sets of Tommy Armour 986 Tour blades spelled wrong the same way. Anyone know why or what happened there?

[pretzelbag]

[quote name='Mattro' timestamp='1282773868' post='2661781']
Anyone else notice and or think it's funny that every pic above of the Tommy Armours are spelled wrong? I also had 2 different sets of Tommy Armour 986 Tour blades spelled wrong the same way. Anyone know why or what happened there?
[/quote]

Looks right to me -- the club says Tommy Armour, and that's how you spell it, no?

[obsessedgolfer]

Indeed that occ is Oakmont Coutntry Club. That is the logo they use on their bags,balls,hedcovers and such.

[Mattro]

[quote name='pretzelbag' timestamp='1283005822' post='2665479']
[quote name='Mattro' timestamp='1282773868' post='2661781']
Anyone else notice and or think it's funny that every pic above of the Tommy Armours are spelled wrong? I also had 2 different sets of Tommy Armour 986 Tour blades spelled wrong the same way. Anyone know why or what happened there?
[/quote]

Looks right to me -- the club says Tommy Armour, and that's how you spell it, no?
[/quote]

Take a closer look, the M's are all upside down.

[bermuda]

That's how the "m's" in Tommy Armour are written. It does look a little odd at first glance, but that's how it is.

[pinseek]

The Tommy Armours are beautiful. Have they been refinished?
CW

[Mattro]

So the M's look like W's?

[pretzelbag]

[quote name='pinseek' timestamp='1283201373' post='2669470']
The Tommy Armours are beautiful. Have they been refinished?
[/quote]

Nope, the finish is straight from the factory floor 27 or so years ago.

[pretzelbag]

[quote name='Mattro' timestamp='1283313008' post='2672833']
So the M's look like W's?
[/quote]

You got it. I can only assume that that's the way TA signed his name. Trying to understand someone's autograph ain't my game, though. Every time I see a collectible autograph, I cannot figure out who it is until I am told...

The current TA logo (see the Sports Authority site where they sell the brand today) has a little more definition to the lowercase m's. I guess since TA has been gone for 40+ years, a little logo change was in order.

[rex235]

Nicklaus won the '62 US Open at Oakmont in an 18 hole playoff with Arnold Palmer-

Promotional photos then showed Nicklaus' set of MacGregors were the SS "diamond back pads" with his name stamped on them.

These irons shown were most likely a remake for Oakmont CC by MacGregor's Custom Club Department for the US Opens of 1983, or 1994.

Norman's MacGregor Diamond Back set at the '08 British Open (ground by Don White)brought the design back....

Unfortunately, it was just before MacGregor Golf closed it's doors in Georgia, and was sold...

There just might be a few IronMasters with that logo around...