Help with latest aquisition.

[sausage100uk]

Postman brrought me another long cardboard box today (much to my wife's dismay). Any help on date and lineage would be helpful, never really heard much about Penna clubs.

 

 

Dave

[pava]

Guessing that it's one of these models:

4377, 4365, 5974 or other 4 digit model
693
403 or 403PT

All of these are oil hardened, have a sweep-back sole plate, and solid red fiber 4-screw insert.

[persimmonpal]

[quote name='pava' date='04 May 2010 - 08:59 PM' timestamp='1273021153' post='2421497']
Guessing that it's one of these models:

4377, 4365, 5974 or other 4 digit model
693
403 or 403PT

All of these are oil hardened, have a sweep-back sole plate, and solid red fiber 4-screw insert.
[/quote]

Sorry, but wrong on all counts.
All of the models you referenced are MacGregor models, from the 40s and 50s.
The driver pictured here is a circa late 70s (my guess) Toney Penna Company driver. The insert is made of red cycolac,, not red fiber.
These Penna woods are plentiful on ebay, and while they do not command much at all are nice blocks.

[pava]

Thanks. Good to know. Guess my source isn't complete enough. BTW, I was referencing the "Golf Classics Price and Identification Guide" by Mike Doherty from 1978. The rest of the Pennas that he lists all either have multi-colored inserts or clearly didn't match.

[pava]

Can you show us an example of a fiber insert?

[persimmonpal]

This set of 693s has fiber inserts.. which is actually bonded layers of paper.. Cycolac is a plastic-like material
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=180501360908&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT

[pava]

Thanks. Is it possible that the club in question had its insert replaced? Also, how do you know it isn't one of the clubs I mentioned? All you said was what you think it is, not why.

[freddiec]

I'm pretty sure most of the TP drives had a solid color insert. The insert pictured above I believe is the original. Looks like the correct one to me. I've seen a lot of these. I think its an early 80s TP or late 70s. Great block of wood.

[chrisbellaire]

pava,
The Doherty book is referencing the Penna models by MacGregor, when Toney Penna worked for MacGregor and designed many models including MT's, Armour's, and Penna's. He left MacGregor and formed his own corporation. The above club was made by the new Toney Penna Company, and the info given by persimmonpal and freddie is correct.

[pava]

Right. I'm sure it's correct. These guys are experts. But, they still haven't answered how they can tell the difference other than the insert. I'm guessing that it has to do with the markings on the sole, possibly the color, but they haven't said that. I'm just curious...trying to learn more about these great clubs. Thanks.

[persimmonpal]

Hi~
There are a few other things that alerted me that this was not a MacGregor driver..
For one, there are no "MacGregor" related markings anywhere on the club. While its true that the club does have "Oil Hardened" and "Toney Penna" on it, and both of those marks were found on 1950s MacGregors, this club is not of that vintage, and not a MacGregor club..
The model numbers you mentioned are all old MacGregor Tourney models, many of which I have come across since becoming a MacGregor addict. The 403 PT is one of my favorite all time drivers.. (PT standing for "Penna Tourney"). The others are varied.. the 693 is generally a Tommy Armour model, although I did once own a SUPER rare Penna 693, the 4393 is usually stamped Ben Hogan [i]and[/i] Tommy Armour, etc etc etc..
Also, the Sweepback soleplate yopu mentioned is not the plate on this club.. The sweep back plate can be found on the 693s that I refenced (link) in a previous post.
MacGregor never used a big "screw" in their soleplates, which this driver has..
The "Toney Penna" font on the soleplate is not the same font used at any time on any MacGregor Penna clubs.. Mac. did use several different styles of his signature, but this one is not similar to them.
Here is a link to another topic by Drewspin, which has a VERY informative history of MacGregor golf.. While it does not contain much info on the Toney Penna Company, obviously, it has LOTS of info on Toney Penna concerning his career at MAcGregor, and its a must read if you are a MacGregor fan..
Thanks for the questions!
[url="http://www.golfwrx.com/forums/topic/354637-the-history-of-macgregor-1829-1979/"]http://www.golfwrx.c...egor-1829-1979/[/url]

[sausage100uk]

No matter how old it is and who made it it performed well during today's round. Looks like after a brush up it will be a permanant fixture in my classic bag along with occaisonal forays into the regular bag.

[eafiii]

I used to have a Toney Penna 5 wood like that. Boy, what a workhorse it was, too. It seemed to be pretty hard and sturdy persimmon, too, like a Powerbilt Citation.

I love the understated look to it. Sometimes the things that make a club collectible are not the same as what makes it respectable. While those Toney Penna's don't fetch much like an old Eye-O-Matic, they sure are nice clubs in my estimation.

[astamm8]

[quote name='sausage100uk' date='05 May 2010 - 05:31 AM' timestamp='1273062681' post='2422382']
No matter how old it is and who made it it performed well during today's round. Looks like after a brush up it will be a permanant fixture in my classic bag along with occaisonal forays into the regular bag.
[/quote]

Make no mistake, these high are quality. I like them for a variety of reasons. They're not that old and 'collectible' so they can be had in good, original condition for a very good price. And, they often came with shafts that hold up well today, like dynamic golds. Finally, I've always liked the 'look' of these with the solid insert and minimal stamping and the big screw.

I've been playing with a Penna mod 65 handmade with a dynamic gold for a few months that is a fantastic performer. All in all it fits me better, and performs for me better, than any other that I've played.

[RobotDoctor]

I would say this is a model produced in the 80s. Echoing the others, this is from Toney Penna Golf company, not MacGregor. Toney was outstanding in both design and craftsmanship of persimmon woods. I would bet this feels very solid. Should not expect anything less from Mr. Penna.