Ballesteros Calls U.S. Open "Worst Major"

[zzmkdw]

Seve thinks the US Opens aren't set up fair...I'm not sure if there is a course set up for the way he has played as of late. :yahoo:

 

http://www.thegolfchannel.com/core.aspx?pa...mp;select=19837

[i_luv_golf_]

True :yahoo: but you have to admit the course was :yahoo: .

 

OK We Could Toughen Up Average Courses THIS MUCH or we could

find something in between this ridiculously hard u.s. open and the too easy

other courses and use that for the average competitions.

 

Which Would You Rather:

 

One Or Two Of The Majors Being Ridiculously Hard Courses And The Rest Too Easy

 

OR

 

Find Something In Between For All The Competitions.

 

 

There is absolutely no point of having two extremely difficult majors and then the players can bomb and gouge on a the Other Courses. They Learn Nothing!

 

god i have such a bad habit of using caps for the first letter in every word and then not doing it and then doing it again and.... I HAVE TO STOP IT TAKES SOOO LONG!

[mji009]

True :yahoo: but you have to admit the course was :yahoo: .

 

OK We Could Toughen Up Average Courses THIS MUCH or we could

find something in between this ridiculously hard u.s. open and the too easy

other courses and use that for the average competitions.

 

Which Would You Rather:

 

One Or Two Of The Majors Being Ridiculously Hard Courses And The Rest Too Easy

 

OR

 

Find Something In Between For All The Competitions.

 

 

There is absolutely no point of having two extremely difficult majors and then the players can bomb and gouge on a the Other Courses. They Learn Nothing!

 

god i have such a bad habit of using caps for the first letter in every word and then not doing it and then doing it again and.... I HAVE TO STOP IT TAKES SOOO LONG!

 

I couldn't agree more. How many times did we see the pros with wayward tee shots? Lots! There were very few players this past Open that were accurate off the tee. And really, isn't the whole idea for a pro to get it into the fairway, unlike a weekend hacker? Like you said, they are so used to bombing it wherever and playing in not-so-rough rough in these sponsor tourneys, that a true test like the US Open gets them into a tizzy and makes them cry like babies. To them I say boo-hoo. Perhaps they can get Kleenex to headline sponsor the US Open next year.

[Chelanace]

I think this year, the setup was perfect. I didn't hear any or very few people complaining about the setup. These are the best golfers in the world and hitting it in the fairway should be the priority. Not who can hit it the farthest and then wedge it onto the green. They identified the best player during the week, Whether they are 20 under or 5 over, the best won.

 

I found it refreshing to see the best players having trouble breaking par!!!!

[phillypete]

I also thought the graduated rough was a fantastic idea. In years past I think the Open has played like a crap shoot, but I feel that the best players were identified this year.

[freddiec]

He's just bitter because he couldn't hit a fway thats 40yds wide.

[six00imola]

why did they make that one par 5 a par 4?? all that did was artificially inflate the scores. they have to allow the players to be rewarded for good shots. but i'm a fan of tough rough. rough and sand were designed to penalize players.

 

i'm more disappointed with whats gone on at augusta. that's supposed to be the tournament where you can go head to head down the stretch. there was a par 4 that tim clark said he couldnt reach in two. good shots were being punished too much there this year, and part of it was the unneccesary distance. all that does is play into the hands of the bombers. but the biggest crime is that they seem determined to engineer less dramatic, less engaging, less memorable sundays at the masters. let the us open be the us open, be happy just being the masters.

 

 

my rankings

 

1. the open

 

2. (old masters)

 

3. us open

 

4. (new masters)

 

5. pga

[Mr.I302]

I have been saying this for years and I have to agree with Seve on this one. I dont know if anybody talked about this but I hated how the USGA made the first 6 holes easier on sunday to get some early low scores and then they put the hammer down on the last 6.....giving no chance for birdies coming in.

 

I rank my majors this way:

 

1. The OPEN

 

2. The Masters

 

3. The PGA

 

4. The US Open

 

Take care and good luck to all!

[phillypete]

I think the recent changes to augusta are well justified. It was reported that the changes were to make the players use the same clubs as they were intended when alister and bobby laid it out. One thing you have to realize is that there is no rough at augusta. Their rough looks like some fairways I've seen. So there isn't a heck of a lot stopping these guys from ripping 330 on most of the holes.

 

And as for switching par 5's to 4's... thats almost standard practice for tour stops these days. Hitting low irons into par 5's is like stealing for those guys. If a few guys can't reach it in two than so be it.

 

It wouldn't make sense to lay out a course to accomidate the worst of the field they should lay it out to challange the best.

 

I, like many golfers and fans alike, love to see the long ball. Playing three woods and irons off tees into par 4s just doesn't have the same spirit.

[Extreme Firepower]

The Greens at the the Masters should be evil, that's the courses protection form being ripped apart... so instead of lengthening it thye should take the stimp rating up. Makes for fun viewing too.

 

My Rating:

 

The Open

 

The Masters

 

US Open

 

US PGA

[Chris L The Golf Dude]

The Masters did not needed to be lengthened at all...

 

Very Simple Solution: higher greens speeds.

 

18 in the stimpmeter.

 

I would love to see the best players in the world putt on a stimp reading of 18.

[DemolitionMan]

I see Seve's point but he could have saved us all a lot of time if he was more honest and said he thinks the US Open setup is the worse because even with his wedge magic he would have no chance on winning it even in his prime.

 

I won't go as far to say as the Masters was ruined, I will still watch it. But it did not need all the changes. The original design and idea was centered around strategy on the approach. The wider fairways and landing areas made for different golfers to try different strategies/angles that utilized their strengths to tackle the greens where the difficulty really is at.

 

Lengthening the course not only took creativity away but it really didn't solve the problems members had with the scoring. Fitness, technology, the ball, etc...they still win out over Augusta's length. Unless you are Tim Clark, but he's going to have a problem more often than the most tour players anyway.

[BRENTY]

I agree with Seve

[sergizmo]

He's just bitter because he couldn't hit a fway thats 40yds wide.

 

That's exactly right. At other tourneys in his prime he could hit it wherever and still shoot good scores. At the US open, it doesn't matter how good of a scrambler you are, you can't hit 40% of fairways and still have a chance to win.

 

Just sour grapes, plain and simple.

[nikegolfworld]

U.S. Opens are not suppose to be easy, seve is just mad cuz he knows for sure he would have shot in the 90's both days. he cant make a cut in the past tournament shooting 81. The U.S. open was tough but fair Mickelson is an idiot, I know he would have won the playoff and we all know there is no way he will win the british open all because of trajectory unless they make him irons that hit automatic stingers .

[jbombardieri]

He just put up a 20 over par in two rounds to miss the cut in France, maybe Seve should concentrate on his game and stop being the World's Biggest A-Hole. It's annoying that the golf press talks to this guy, he never has anything nice to say and he is soooooooo negative.

[Texsport]

I agree 100% with Seve.

 

The USGA is out of control and the champions they've had who have done little else proves that they are not identifying the best player. What they find is a winner who played well but was lucky.

 

The idea of graduated rough is clearly bogus. Mickelson was hitting it so wildly that he was playing from relatively bare lies. He shouldn't have even been in contention if the theory of graduated rough was valid.

 

With so-called graduated rough as practiced by the USGA:

(1) you can miss the fairway by 5 inches and get a flier

(2) miss by 10 yards and you can't advance the ball

(3) miss by 30 yards and you've got a shot at the green

 

This graduated rough opinion is stolen from noted golf architect Tom Doak. who thought the setup was horrible!

 

The green setups for this course were also absurd. There were no bailout areas and if you missed several of the greens by 1 foot you made double. The best shots around the green by Jeff Ogilvy were a sand shot and chip-in that clanked off the pins and went in. If he'd have missed the pin, he'd have been well beyond the hole and unlikely able to make the next shot. No luck and he was not the winner!

 

This is not a good setup to determine the best because it eliminates the short game skills of the best players in the world.

 

I think the U S Open and British Open both have World Cup Soccer mentalities. All the best players in the world are there but the team that often wins is the one which was lucky--the benefactor of good/bad bounces, B.S. referee decisions, richochetes, and slips. Lucky bounces determine the winners much too often instead of great play.

 

At least we don't get all those flops and girly injury acts in golf.

 

With all 3 events it's a matter of who loses instead of who wins. It's just not my idea of what a championship should be.

 

All the handicap golfers who enjoy seeing the best players in the world hack it around one of these nightmare setups should be condemned to play the courses themselves exclusively for the next year to experience just how fair they are. :yahoo:

 

Texsport

[3puttbogey]

The British Open is not immune to going over the top with difficult course setups. Anyone remember Carnoustie?

[nlacross]

If Seve didn't have something to whine about each and every day he wouldn't know what to do with himself. The guy is mad that he SUCKS!!!

[six00imola]

I agree 100% with Seve.

 

The USGA is out of control and the champions they've had who have done little else proves that they are not identifying the best player. What they find is a winner who played well but was lucky.

 

The idea of graduated rough is clearly bogus. Mickelson was hitting it so wildly that he was playing from relatively bare lies. He shouldn't have even been in contention if the theory of graduated rough was valid.

 

With so-called graduated rough as practiced by the USGA:

(1) you can miss the fairway by 5 inches and get a flier

(2) miss by 10 yards and you can't advance the ball

(3) miss by 30 yards and you've got a shot at the green

 

This graduated rough opinion is stolen from noted golf architect Tom Doak. who thought the setup was horrible!

 

The green setups for this course were also absurd. There were no bailout areas and if you missed several of the greens by 1 foot you made double. The best shoys around the green by Jeff Ogilvy were a sand shot and chip-in that clanked off the pins and went in. If he'd have missed the pin, he have been well beyond the hole and unlikely able to make the next shot. No luck and he was not the winner!

 

This is not a good setup to determine the best because it eliminates the short game skills of the best players in the world.

 

I think the U S Open and British Open both have World Cup Soccer mentalities. All the best players in the world are there but the team that often wins is the one which was lucky--the benefactor of good/bad bounces, slips, referee decisions, richochetes, and slips. Lucky bounces determine the winners much too often instead of great play.

 

With all 3 events it's a matter of who loses instead of who wins. It's just not my idea of what a championship should be.

 

All the handicap golfers who enjoy seeing the best players in the world hack it around one of these rediculous setups should be condemned to play the courses themselves exclusively for the next year to experience just how fair they are. :cheesy:

 

Texsport

 

i agree with a lot of what you said. i love tough rough.. i think guys should be penalized for driving it off line.. but at winged foot it was a joke because if u drove it far enough off line or at the gallery.. u usually had a nice lie and line at the hole. there was only a relatively small strip of tough rough.

 

it turned into a contest of who can get the luckiest bounce off the crowd. mickelson definitely won that one. even on 18 he got a 60 yard kick off the tent. although who knows??? he might've had a perfect line at the hole from 95 yards left of the fairway.

 

ogilvy didnt win on luck as much as consistency. he caught one good break, other than that he hung in there and let everyone else's luck run out. he did a great job of overcoming the sandy divot and the rejected approach shot on 18.. very impressive.

[mantan]

I agree 100% with Seve.

 

The USGA is out of control and the champions they've had who have done little else proves that they are not identifying the best player. What they find is a winner who played well but was lucky.

 

The idea of graduated rough is clearly bogus. Mickelson was hitting it so wildly that he was playing from relatively bare lies. He shouldn't have even been in contention if the theory of graduated rough was valid.

 

With so-called graduated rough as practiced by the USGA:

(1) you can miss the fairway by 5 inches and get a flier

(2) miss by 10 yards and you can't advance the ball

(3) miss by 30 yards and you've got a shot at the green

 

This graduated rough opinion is stolen from noted golf architect Tom Doak. who thought the setup was horrible!

 

The green setups for this course were also absurd. There were no bailout areas and if you missed several of the greens by 1 foot you made double. The best shoys around the green by Jeff Ogilvy were a sand shot and chip-in that clanked off the pins and went in. If he'd have missed the pin, he have been well beyond the hole and unlikely able to make the next shot. No luck and he was not the winner!

 

This is not a good setup to determine the best because it eliminates the short game skills of the best players in the world.

 

I think the U S Open and British Open both have World Cup Soccer mentalities. All the best players in the world are there but the team that often wins is the one which was lucky--the benefactor of good/bad bounces, slips, B.S. referee decisions, richochetes, and slips. Lucky bounces determine the winners much too often instead of great play.

 

At least we don't get all those flops and girly injury acts in golf.

 

With all 3 events it's a matter of who loses instead of who wins. It's just not my idea of what a championship should be.

 

All the handicap golfers who enjoy seeing the best players in the world hack it around one of these nightmare setups should be condemned to play the courses themselves exclusively for the next year to experience just how fair they are. :cheesy:

 

Texsport

 

 

Great post!

[dannypharvey]

If Seve didn't have something to whine about each and every day he wouldn't know what to do with himself. The guy is mad that he SUCKS!!!

 

Seve Ballesteros, SUCK!!?? i suppose he must of fluked 3 Open wins, 2 Masters titles and 61 weeks as world number 1. obviously he's not goin to play well these days. he's knocking 50, has had a dodgy back for nearly 30 years and has barely played competetive golf since 2003. Seve's swing was famous for his reverse c, but now there is no chance of him swinging like that.

 

as for the whining, i think it's good that he speaks his mind. also he says these things as his opinion.

[theothertwo]

If Seve didn't have something to whine about each and every day he wouldn't know what to do with himself. The guy is mad that he SUCKS!!!

 

Seve Ballesteros, SUCK!!?? i suppose he must of fluked 3 Open wins, 2 Masters titles and 61 weeks as world number 1. obviously he's not goin to play well these days. he's knocking 50, has had a dodgy back for nearly 30 years and has barely played competetive golf since 2003. Seve's swing was famous for his reverse c, but now there is no chance of him swinging like that.

 

as for the whining, i think it's good that he speaks his mind. also he says these things as his opinion.

 

 

I think Seve makes a good point, regardless, I've followed and played golf for awhile now and watching Seve in his prime is one of my favorites in golf. The guy made it fun to watch and certainly defined golf genius if there ever was one. If everybody made pars and birdies but hitting all the fairways and greens, it would have been too boring for me. Seve's magic was fun to watch. I hope he gets back some of the old magic.

 

As for the post about Seve's comments being sour grapes and not having a chance to win the US Open hitting less than 40% of the fairways, Mickelson had a chance to win and actually had it won hitting less than 40% of the fairways during the final round. Just shows a magical short game like his and Seve can win anything, also a lot more fun to watch. I don't think it's sour grapes, it's his opinion and being a five time major champion, he must know what he's talking about. Personally, my favorite major is the British Open. The US Open is great but borders on the ridiculous sometimes, just my opinion.

[VTHOKIES]

If Seve didn't have something to whine about each and every day he wouldn't know what to do with himself. The guy is mad that he SUCKS!!!

 

I agree, Seve is upset because even in his prime he couldn't find the fairway with a wedge. He's washed up. Go back to bed Seve. :cheesy:

[Extreme Firepower]

Personally I think most Americans are jealous of Seve and the fact that the British Open is the de facto Major in the world.

 

As for the critisim of British Open tracks being made hard, depends if your definition of golf is blasting a ball 50- yds offline to get an advantage.... as a club glofer that's a reload for me and should be the same for Mickleson, Woods etc and apart from St Andrews is the case in the Opem.

 

BTW: some of the positions Seve stuck the ball close from was pure jungle... not these poxy Phil high flops from 5 inch rough from 20 yds away or Tiger stingers under branches off pine needles, obviously those mouthing off have never seen the man produce any of his magic!

[isogood]

I followed Seve last week at the french open, very hard to watch that... it was his first return on the field since 2 years, and he was confident, really, he thinks he could play well, and he thinks he could play at the top next year on seniors tours.

But he plays only like a 8 handicap now, no more. Such a great player, difficult to watch him humiliated quite on each shot, and even in the short game...

I don't know if he finally will decide to play the British Open, but I hope no, for him, I hope no...

If he had played the US Open this year, He should have made +20 on each round, for sure...

I don't agreee with his judgement. All the 4 majors are differents, and it is well like that.

4 majors like The Open, it will be ridiculous. The winners are always great players.

 

some pictures of Seve I take d last week here :

 

http://www.pbase.com/isogood/the_french_open&page=all

 

on one, you may see him hitting toward a red line (perhaps a symbol ?). The ball has finished in the water, the second ball too...

OK, but we have to never forget what he had made for the golf in the world, like Arnold Palmer.

[sergizmo]

Personally I think most Americans are jealous of Seve and the fact that the British Open is the de facto Major in the world.

 

As for the critisim of British Open tracks being made hard, depends if your definition of golf is blasting a ball 50- yds offline to get an advantage.... as a club glofer that's a reload for me and should be the same for Mickleson, Woods etc and apart from St Andrews is the case in the Opem.

 

BTW: some of the positions Seve stuck the ball close from was pure jungle... not these poxy Phil high flops from 5 inch rough from 20 yds away or Tiger stingers under branches off pine needles, obviously those mouthing off have never seen the man produce any of his magic!

 

You seem to be a little confused about the issue here. Seve is complaining that the US Open is too hard, not the British.

 

In a major you should be forced to hit the fairway, and in general the US Open is the most punishing when you miss it.

 

Americans jealous of Seve? I doubt it. Americans keep winning the "de facto major"

 

'05; Tiger

'04; Todd Hamilton

'03; Ben Curtis

'01; Duval

'00; Tiger

'98: O'Meara

'97: Justin Leonard

'96: Tom Lehman

 

So, 8 of the last 10

 

Seve is the one that is jealous. He is mad that despite all of his scrambling prowess, he was never able to scramble his way into a US Open win. Boo Hoo.

 

And yes he does suck. Look at the scrores he recently put up. He couldn't win a club championship now, much less compete on the European Tour.

[dannypharvey]

Personally I think most Americans are jealous of Seve and the fact that the British Open is the de facto Major in the world.

 

As for the critisim of British Open tracks being made hard, depends if your definition of golf is blasting a ball 50- yds offline to get an advantage.... as a club glofer that's a reload for me and should be the same for Mickleson, Woods etc and apart from St Andrews is the case in the Opem.

 

BTW: some of the positions Seve stuck the ball close from was pure jungle... not these poxy Phil high flops from 5 inch rough from 20 yds away or Tiger stingers under branches off pine needles, obviously those mouthing off have never seen the man produce any of his magic!

 

You seem to be a little confused about the issue here. Seve is complaining that the US Open is too hard, not the British.

 

In a major you should be forced to hit the fairway, and in general the US Open is the most punishing when you miss it.

 

Americans jealous of Seve? I doubt it. Americans keep winning the "de facto major"

 

'05; Tiger

'04; Todd Hamilton

'03; Ben Curtis

'01; Duval

'00; Tiger

'98: O'Meara

'97: Justin Leonard

'96: Tom Lehman

 

So, 8 of the last 10

 

Seve is the one that is jealous. He is mad that despite all of his scrambling prowess, he was never able to scramble his way into a US Open win. Boo Hoo.

 

And yes he does suck. Look at the scrores he recently put up. He couldn't win a club championship now, much less compete on the European Tour.

 

i bet Seve is/was 10x the golfer you or me will ever be. and i bet he can still produce magic recovery shots like nobody else.

 

and also, THE Open is the number one major in most people's mind including a vast majority of tour pro's. as you were saying about Americans winning The Open, it seems not 'that' many American golfers have been winning the US Open either.

[the hawk]

Statistically Seve's correct.

 

Over the past 30 years the US Open has the lowest rated winners and more outliers (Andy North's) than any other major. You may (or may not) agree with the way the USGA sets up the courses, but the numbers speak for themselves, the best players in the world rise to the top more often in the other majors!

[isogood]

oh yes, he can always produce some unique recovery shots, but he can also pull three or four balls successive in the heavy rough or in the water, and make 8 or 10 on one hole, that's the problem for him now, to return competitive, even in seniors.