Square head driver wars?

[DB MACHINE]

Will this be the new shape of all new drivers in the future?

So it now looks like we have a new square headed driver war in the making....

1st the rumors (backed by patents) about the Callaway square head, huge MOI, (no name yet, possibly FT-4 or FT-5?) and now the Nike Sumo Square.... the engineering concepts leading to increased MOI are totally valid, and each product will validate the other in the marketplace, while fueling comparative / trend reporting and PR.

The real question for me is, will the conservative tastes of traditional golf market accept these radical new shapes??? (note that Nike seems to be hedging their bets by offering a traditional Sumo and a square model)

Tour players have been proven to switch to new product if it is truly better (especially when their big contracts and or pay-to-play incentives are on the line), but will the avid-core golfer switch too? After all, better golfers make their buying decisions and especially choose their gamers based on many factors beyond what tour players are using what. I say, ultimately, if the ball finds the fairway more often, they will buy and play these new suare head drivers.

Then the question becomes, if TW and other prominent players switch, and win, and the consumers also flock towards these new heads, will this trend then become the new rage, and ultimately, the new shape of all drivers to come?

[Boba]

god I hope not. I like my Bstone 460's looks & playability, I don't need more m.o.i. I cant imagine how bad an offset square driver would look.

[samm980]

I am curious to see if the first generation of square drivers are sound or if they fizzle. The example I am thinking of is the original major composite driver launches with Callaway and the C4 and the ERC Fusion. When those came out I think we were all pretty disenchanted with the composite technology and everyone knew the concept had to go back to the drawing board. I just wonder if we will see the same thing play out with the square concept. With the lack of Tour play I still wonder if the same will be the case for the Hi-Bore.

 

It's funny in this thread just like the Michelle Wie thread only time will tell.

[nikemike]

For me, it's going to be a back-burner issue till I see what kind of concept design they offer. It's hard to be pro or con when all there is to go on is pure speculation.

[DB MACHINE]

For me, it's going to be a back-burner issue till I see what kind of concept design they offer. It's hard to be pro or con when all there is to go on is pure speculation.

 

Well, its seems more than pure speculation, given the Nike rep announcements and also the Callaway patents (public documents)

 

Moreover, the high MOI allowed by these drivers is totally compelling. More forgiving means more fairways, plain and simple. Thank goodness the USGA didn't draw that line in the sand where drivers are today - there is still room for significant improvement...

 

For store buyers, this will affect their budgets and buying decisions as the reps show them these new lines in the coming weeks and months, so I think it is valid.

 

For the other OEM's, the affects their R&D focus RIGHT NOW!

 

*XS*

[Konklifer]

I'm waiting for the rhombus shaped driver.

[nikemike]

For me, it's going to be a back-burner issue till I see what kind of concept design they offer. It's hard to be pro or con when all there is to go on is pure speculation.

 

Well, its seems more than pure speculation, given the Nike rep announcements and also the Callaway patents (public documents)

 

Moreover, the high MOI allowed by these drivers is totally compelling. More forgiving means more fairways, plain and simple. Thank goodness the USGA didn't draw that line in the sand where drivers are today - there is still room for significant improvement...

 

For store buyers, this will affect their budgets and buying decisions as the reps show them these new lines in the coming weeks and months, so I think it is valid.

 

For the other OEM's, the affects their R&D focus RIGHT NOW!

 

*XS*

 

What I was getting at is speculation on what the driver will look like. I don't think the basic cube will go over too well with the public.

[DB MACHINE]

For me, it's going to be a back-burner issue till I see what kind of concept design they offer. It's hard to be pro or con when all there is to go on is pure speculation.

 

Well, its seems more than pure speculation, given the Nike rep announcements and also the Callaway patents (public documents)

 

Moreover, the high MOI allowed by these drivers is totally compelling. More forgiving means more fairways, plain and simple. Thank goodness the USGA didn't draw that line in the sand where drivers are today - there is still room for significant improvement...

 

For store buyers, this will affect their budgets and buying decisions as the reps show them these new lines in the coming weeks and months, so I think it is valid.

 

For the other OEM's, the affects their R&D focus RIGHT NOW!

 

*XS*

 

What I was getting at is speculation on what the driver will look like. I don't think the basic cube will go over too well with the public.

 

 

Then check this out: attached is a picture of the cover page for just one of the patents I have seen for a Callaway Square Head driver (this is one of many design patents, and not sure if any of these make it to mfr.). Note it looks very much like a FT-3 type construction: presumably Ti Cup face, with a composite back and internal weighting (published applications contain more info on that). Also, a type of X sole, albeit pretty wild / radical shape...at least you don't see that at address!!! At least the corners are somewhat rounded. I have heard some say the suare sides will help alignment? Jury still out for me, but it should be extremely forgiving nonethless. *XS*

[BeRight]

I wonder if the shape will be more like the HAMMER!

[xjustice09x]

The diagrams on the patent document remind me of ET.

 

Only time will tell if the public will buy it or not. I'm curious to see if it really does outperform more traditionally shaped drivers.

[birdie29]

wow! great find extrastiff. If the patent was filed in 05 it shows how far in advance these guys think.

[DB MACHINE]

The diagrams on the patent document remind me of ET.

 

Only time will tell if the public will buy it or not. I'm curious to see if it really does outperform more traditionally shaped drivers.

 

LOL! Separated at birth! "FT-4, phone home!"

 

Well, the science behind it is totally valid, as I have said. The looks will take some getting used to though.

However, Callaway has a rich history of taking the "form follows function" philosphy, and making home runs from many of them. Original Big Bertha had the whole industry skeptical at first, as did the 2-Ball more recently. Those products were initially thought of as uuugly when the launched. Average Joe hit Bertha straighter and made more putts with the 2-ball, and the rest is history, as they say.

 

I'm curious about the Nike shape and construction. Carbon crown would make sense.

 

Callaway's makes sense for many reasons. Weights in the back corners will definately expand the MOI, and they have extra performance weight to begin with by using their composite back half. Also, the effective COR area should also be expanded as the face looks to have a very high aspect ratio. They have also increased allowable head size (volume) by making the dip in the sole (kind of a reverse of the Hi-Bore), but still have low back weighting due to the lower aft-sole, presumably with weights in that location too. Now if they just had a user weight / CG tuning feature, this could be the King of all drivers, IMHO.

 

*XS*

[keyser]

What I was getting at is speculation on what the driver will look like. I don't think the basic cube will go over too well with the public.

IMO what would work well would be just s similar design as we have today, but just more square in the back, and in order to get the deepest profile and largest face possible, something like a hibore design or an extreme slanting crown(kinda like Cobra Speed but more) would be needed in order not to break the cc rule.

[DB MACHINE]

wow! great find extrastiff. If the patent was filed in 05 it shows how far in advance these guys think.

 

Thanks. Very happy to add my $0.02 to this site (I love this place - can I say that?).

 

No doubt they work years out on this stuff, especially the radical stuff. Though, you can see where they are building on past innovations too (FT-3 etc).

 

I thought the patent issue date was pretty cool: July 4th! (no gov't holiday for the patent office?) Born on the Fourth of July! This driver will set you free!

 

Still wish they had a user-adjustable weighting system. I love to tinker on my clubs, and make them just right.

 

*XS*

[NikeTaylormade891]

That patent picture is awesome.

[wolfgame]

I have to agree...pretty impressive that posts include patent applications....now that it is out there, I wonder what else is patent pending that members run across....would love to see more.....bleeding edge! Any patents on the MP80's?!?!

[xxio]

Now there will be no arguments whether the face angle is square or not. Just bring out the T-Square ruler and all arguments solved.

[DemolitionMan]

This is like a science fair/contest on who can do what with 460cc.

 

Imagine if there was no limit on 460cc....

[golfernut78]

For me, it's going to be a back-burner issue till I see what kind of concept design they offer. It's hard to be pro or con when all there is to go on is pure speculation.

 

Well, its seems more than pure speculation, given the Nike rep announcements and also the Callaway patents (public documents)

 

Moreover, the high MOI allowed by these drivers is totally compelling. More forgiving means more fairways, plain and simple. Thank goodness the USGA didn't draw that line in the sand where drivers are today - there is still room for significant improvement...

 

For store buyers, this will affect their budgets and buying decisions as the reps show them these new lines in the coming weeks and months, so I think it is valid.

 

For the other OEM's, the affects their R&D focus RIGHT NOW!

 

*XS*

 

What I was getting at is speculation on what the driver will look like. I don't think the basic cube will go over too well with the public.

 

 

Then check this out: attached is a picture of the cover page for just one of the patents I have seen for a Callaway Square Head driver (this is one of many design patents, and not sure if any of these make it to mfr.). Note it looks very much like a FT-3 type construction: presumably Ti Cup face, with a composite back and internal weighting (published applications contain more info on that). Also, a type of X sole, albeit pretty wild / radical shape...at least you don't see that at address!!! At least the corners are somewhat rounded. I have heard some say the suare sides will help alignment? Jury still out for me, but it should be extremely forgiving nonethless. *XS*

 

i'm a little skeptical of this patent, only because the date of it is july 4th, a national holiday.

[gjones77]

I still don't think it will pass USGA Conforming standards

 

It doesn't have a traditional shape (Pear shape) at address, which is one of the rules

[NPVWhiz]

 

i'm a little skeptical of this patent, only because the date of it is july 4th, a national holiday.

 

It's a real issued US design patent. A patent can have an issuance date on a holiday (which is just a date that marks the beginning of the term of the patent, but you'll have a hard time filing a patent on a federal holiday!

[siennaslammer]

 

i'm a little skeptical of this patent, only because the date of it is july 4th, a national holiday.

 

It's a real issued US design patent. A patent can have an issuance date on a holiday (which is just a date that marks the beginning of the term of the patent, but you'll have a hard time filing a patent on a federal holiday!

 

-------------------------------------------------

 

NOPE - this is a real deal

here is the link to US patent office web site - for this driver head.

it was filed on august 2, 2005.

 

http://patimg2.uspto.gov/.piw?Docid=D05243...View+first+page

[littlepoison]

I still don't think it will pass USGA Conforming standards

 

It doesn't have a traditional shape (Pear shape) at address, which is one of the rules

 

 

I think you may be on to something with that statement... plain in shape it certainly is not

[TourPro21]

i'm sure they said the same thing about the futura and 2-ball putters which basically revolutionized golf technology as we know it...

[expunge]

When will it end. What is Adam's motto now?

 

If they were any easier to hit they wouldn't need you.

 

They need my credit card. How much more forgiveness do you need? I understand that they are targeting the weekend golfer that goes out 2 times a month maybe and hits around. They want him to have a good time. But it's got to stop somewhere. I remember getting my first big bertha and saying.GOOD LORD LOOK AT THE SIZE OF THAT. I just got my x460 from the clubmaker and was comparing it. It's such a joke.

 

Cool driver though.

[Ducky]

That is one ugly driver concept! Perhaps they'll call it 'Toast', as it looks like a piece of bread from the top.

 

Personally, I wished the USGA had been paying attention years ago, and made technology restrictions sooner (i.e. to prevent driver and ball technology from getting out of hand).

[Vagabond]

I stand corrected. :p

 

The patent:

http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?...S=nike+AND+club

[Boba]

Just to add into the foray I searched a little bit on my own on the patent office website and this was the latest design that I saw from Nike in the wood design. Doesn't quite look like the SQ but doesn't really look square either. Though from the patent site they might be calling this the "Ignite+"??

 

The patent:

http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?...S=nike+AND+club

 

Some pics from it.

 

 

NIKE? Are you sure?

 

 

Thnks for editing your post, now I look like an even bigger wierdo.

[Vagabond]

Hmm, I guess I didn't look at the search very well. It's been FEATURED in Nike Golf Clubs & equipment but you're right... it's actually only assigned to SRI Sports limited which I'll assume is Srixon. I'll check and append my post when I have some extra time to search though the patent office web page. :p

 

Ok quick search thoguh the top 100 for anything golf related...

 

http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?...ike&RS=nike

 

Doesn't seem too radical of a design like the Callaway.

[dtwainright]

This is pretty sweet...now we're looking at patents...awesome.

 

What kind of plug-in do I need to view the images? I can open the website, but can't see any of the images.

 

Regards,

Tyler