Lower Lofted Drivers

[oldschoolrocker]

Have we been hoodwinked with the higher loft craze?

I just came from a clubfitting, Driver, and was shocked by the results. I don't have all the data yet, waiting for it to arrive via email, but, found that a decrease in loft, from 10.5 to 8.0- 9.0 degrees with the correct shaft, provided the best combo of launch angle and spin rate. And, put those two together and you have a lethal combo of little white ball in short grass far far away from tee. Anyone else having success with shifting to lower lofts. 58, bad back, swingspeed 95.

[marrigo]

Most players have a descending angle of attack so higher lofts help. For those with ascending angle of attacks (like you and I) lower loft helps keep the ball down and also makes getting optimal numbers easier. I launch 9.5* heads at 17-19* and 3000-3500 rpm of spin. Switched to a 5.5* head and launch went down to 12* with 2500 rpm. Can still get it up to 17ish launch if I need to.

[bobcat]

A few comments:

- With larger Driver heads, the weight is pushed back away from the face which actually tends to increase the launch angle, this is also known as the "dynamic loft effect".

- You must also consider the Driver's face angle. If the face is closed, and you square it at impact, you are actually adding loft. If the face is open and then you square it, then the clubs loft is being reduced.

Finally, keep in mind that the actual measured loft is seldom as stated on the bottom of a Driver's sole. Due to mass manufactring and what the OEM's consider "acceptable tolerances", you just have to hope the one you pick is not more than a full degree off what the sole plate says it is. Not a bad idea to have the loft and face angle measured at the store if that is an option at the time of purchase.

[tomallinder]

[quote name='oldschoolrocker' timestamp='1320099585' post='3743583']
I just came from a clubfitting, Driver, and was shocked by the results. I don't have all the data yet, waiting for it to arrive via email, but, found that a decrease in loft, from 10.5 to 8.0- 9.0 degrees with the correct shaft, provided the best combo of launch angle and spin rate. And, put those two together and you have a lethal combo of little white ball in short grass far far away from tee. Anyone else having success with shifting to lower lofts. 58, bad back, swingspeed 95.
[/quote]

[size="2"]oldschoolrocker, I think you may have a good point here. Over the years, we have seen the push to higher lofts. Higher lofts equals less dispersion but does it really equal more distance? There are many variables to consider.[/size]

[size="2"]I am 52 and have been working hard the last 3 months to get my swing speed back which I lost due to too much sitting in front of a computer working to survive this economy. My swing speed has steadily climbed from 93-95 to 105-108. [/size][size="2"]I have a Taylor Made R11 10.5 degree loft with a stiff shaft. I went to a really nice driving range that had the current yardages measured by laser. [/size]

[size="2"]There was a white flag at 257 yards. At 10.5 degrees I was landing just short of the flag and rolling past it. I then got out the wrench and dialed it back to 9.5. The first shot I hit landed just past the flag and rolled into the woods about 10-15 yards behind it. It happened over and over again. The ball flight was about the same at 10.5 and 9.5 but the 9.5 clearly carried 8-10 yards further.[/size]

[size="2"]Now I wish I had bought a 9.5...[/size]

[oldschoolrocker]

Thanks to all for the replys and info. Am seeing my guy again tomorrow, opps, today, after midnight here on the coast, and hope to do some "horse trading." Was thinking about springing for a newbie and getting it reshafted, but wife insists I get myself a new dryer instead. Go figure. On a serious note, certainly endorse seeing a professional clubfitter if you are serious about your game. My time and money spent with David Ayers, Charleston, SC, [i]can I throw in a plug here[/i], with respect to clubfitting, has paid huge dividends in helping me toward the attainment of my golfing goal (ball control.) Last year he got my irons spot on and then with his help on a SAMS the putter started behaving. Now, the final piece of the puzzle is about to be in place and I can trust my tee ball again. With balls in the short grass and a new dryer and happy wife, life will be good again.

[GatorNate11]

I've played with everything from 8.5-11°. I like the 8.5°-9.5° range. I hit the ball high naturally with quite a bit of spin. The lower lofts brings that down, and can help give me more of a "bullet" trajectory if I have to hit it into the wind.

[oldschoolrocker]

An update on my new numbers with the lower loft and shaft combo.
2009 model Cleveland Launcher 9 degree head with Fuikura Motore F1 55 S
Swingspeed - 95
Launch angle - 14 degrees
Spin rate - 2824 rpm

Getting use to it. Easy to work trajectory. With some work can hit it quail high with a tail in either direction. Standard setup and swing produce straight high knuckle. Why didn't I get[i] professionally fitted[/i] before? Could have saved me a ton of money and hair over the last few years. Oh well, better late than never. Working on getting the back in shape to regain more mobility and flexabilty. Strength not an issue, still maintain a high degree of muscle tone and strength, so hopefully the swingspeed will creep back up as well.

[Woodridge]

[quote name='tomallinder' timestamp='1320108060' post='3744223']
[quote name='oldschoolrocker' timestamp='1320099585' post='3743583']
I just came from a clubfitting, Driver, and was shocked by the results. I don't have all the data yet, waiting for it to arrive via email, but, found that a decrease in loft, from 10.5 to 8.0- 9.0 degrees with the correct shaft, provided the best combo of launch angle and spin rate. And, put those two together and you have a lethal combo of little white ball in short grass far far away from tee. Anyone else having success with shifting to lower lofts. 58, bad back, swingspeed 95.
[/quote]

[size="2"]oldschoolrocker, I think you may have a good point here. Over the years, we have seen the push to higher lofts. Higher lofts equals less dispersion but does it really equal more distance? There are many variables to consider.[/size]

[size="2"]I am 52 and have been working hard the last 3 months to get my swing speed back which I lost due to too much sitting in front of a computer working to survive this economy. My swing speed has steadily climbed from 93-95 to 105-108. [/size][size="2"]I have a Taylor Made R11 10.5 degree loft with a stiff shaft. I went to a really nice driving range that had the current yardages measured by laser. [/size]

[size="2"]There was a white flag at 257 yards. At 10.5 degrees I was landing just short of the flag and rolling past it. I then got out the wrench and dialed it back to 9.5. The first shot I hit landed just past the flag and rolled into the woods about 10-15 yards behind it. It happened over and over again. The ball flight was about the same at 10.5 and 9.5 but the 9.5 clearly carried 8-10 yards further.[/size]

[size="2"]Now I wish I had bought a 9.5...[/size]


[/quote]

How were you able to get your swing speed back?

[Chick B]

Thanks, Woodridge............exactly what I was going to ask.

[The Duck]

I am 52 also and knew I was losing muscle str. I paid up to a trainer to find out why I was having distance and directional issues.
He found out while I was leg strong (jogging and carrying) the rest of the body needed to increase in STR badly.
I have been pounding CORE CORE CORE and will the rest of the winter while I continue to play.

One good method to get stable SS up (105 to 108 now). Work the CORE muscles to improve stability and balance.
I laid off the range during the week and hit the training 3 -4 times a week and I dropped 2 shots (in a month)
Hitting the Floor roller also helps Flexibility and muscle kinks.
No big weights involved or needed if the cardio floor routines are correct.
Torsion rotation, resistance, and lots of Balance activities on the the Floor.


The club is more stable swinging I can swing smoother (= best/faster) and get those 270+ shots that are a blasts.

I had to re shaft the driver to a XS Rombax to get the SS under control.
The distance is fine as I out drive almost all my buds but the dispersion is WAY down and I actually increased Loft to 9.5 to get more air time.
Harder I swing the better I do it seems.

[oldschoolrocker]

Up early, couldn't sleep, kinda like a Christmas morning thing going on here. Fathers Day and have an idea after church, over brunch, I may open up a pair of tickets to the PGA @ The Ocean Course. Anyway, I regress, an update on the orginal post.
Have had the new driver/shaft combo in the bag for almost nine months now, although, I haven't played it every round (play persimmons) about a quater of the time, I am still thrilled with the combo.
Made an honest effort to better my physical condition, which resulted in a loss of 20 lbs, increased flexibility with no lose of strength. Thank you Duck for the CORE info tip. Still having those back issues that creep up every now and again, and have developed something called "froozen shoulder" that limits my ability to really crank it up, however, even with these physical limitations the driver/shaft combo performance is exceeding expectations.

[MBianchi]

[quote name='oldschoolrocker' timestamp='1320216485' post='3749575']
An update on my new numbers with the lower loft and shaft combo.
2009 model Cleveland Launcher 9 degree head with Fuikura Motore F1 55 S
Swingspeed - 95
Launch angle - 14 degrees
Spin rate - 2824 rpm

Getting use to it. Easy to work trajectory. With some work can hit it quail high with a tail in either direction. Standard setup and swing produce straight high knuckle. Why didn't I get[i] professionally fitted[/i] before? Could have saved me a ton of money and hair over the last few years. Oh well, better late than never. Working on getting the back in shape to regain more mobility and flexabilty. Strength not an issue, still maintain a high degree of muscle tone and strength, so hopefully the swingspeed will creep back up as well.
[/quote]

Those numbers are perfect, I think you've found your stick

[oldschoolrocker]

Yes, I certainly can't complain about the driver/shaft combo. Haven't been back on a monitor to get an accurate update on swing speed, but judging from the distances on some of the regular courses I play, it is either going up, or I am putting the clubface on the ball better, either way, distance and fairways hit average better than it has been in years.
Now, a shoutout to "David Ayers" Mt. Pleasant, SC for setting me up with this combo, also for his help on the SAM, and last but not least, working with me on my irons, shaft tipping/swingweight/lie angle....like I said in an earlier post.....should have seen a professional way before this and not the car salesmen type that seem to have infested some of the bigname outfits IMHO.
Maybe hijacking my own post here, but, writing this has certainly opened my eyes to all the time/money/effort I have wasted over the last few years([i]since the beginning of the buy your game era of the sport)[/i] with regard to playing with clubs, from flatsticks to drivers that didn't match my swing.
Thank you for your indulgence.
drs

[gtikid23]

I am getting fitted for the first time on Monday. I can't wait to get my results. I hope I can achieve the results you have!

[oldschoolrocker]

[quote name='gtikid23' timestamp='1340408825' post='5151750']
I am getting fitted for the first time on Monday. I can't wait to get my results. I hope I can achieve the results you have!
[/quote]

Good luck. If I may say, "[i]Go in with an open mind, but don't be afraid to voice your opinion as well." [/i]Please keep us updated on how it goes.

drs

[fireguyfrank58]

I have been hitting lower lofted drivers for a while now. I just tested my newest combo of my R11s 9 tuned down 1.5 degrees and a AD DI 6 stiff tippd 1/2". I was carrying 250 with a 14 degree launch and 1800 rpm BS. The worst backspin numbers i could muster was 2200 RPM. A very lethal low spin combo!

[oldschoolrocker]

FireGuyFrank,
Thanks for the post and helping me back up my data. Your numbers sound really solid. Are you seeing a decrease in loft with guys you play with? BTW, what do you think of the R11 head? I have an low lofted R7 with, not the same but similar shaft, as my gamer Cleveland/Fuikura, but I hate the way it sounds.

[Vegaman]

[quote name='marrigo' timestamp='1320100213' post='3743653']
Most players have a descending angle of attack so higher lofts help. For those with ascending angle of attacks (like you and I) lower loft helps keep the ball down and also makes getting optimal numbers easier. I launch 9.5* heads at 17-19* and 3000-3500 rpm of spin. Switched to a 5.5* head and launch went down to 12* with 2500 rpm. Can still get it up to 17ish launch if I need to.
[/quote]

It's completely the other way around..Steep attack = catastrophic high spin and ballooning shots with higher lofts. That kind of player need [i]less [/i]loft and not more. If you have an ascending swing through the hitting area, high loft is not as much a problem, and that's why pros have gone to higher lofts for a while, because they usually don't swing very steep, they swing the driver "correctly" so to speak and can thus go up in loft and still get a perfect combination of high launch and low spin. These days the newer players have gone to lower lofts again because they just swing so much faster and harder than what was the norm just a few years ago. Higher swing speed means more spin, so they go down in loft even though they swing correctly. Of course, among the younger players on tour a SS of around 115-120 is rather common and not that unusual.

[fireguyfrank58]

[quote name='oldschoolrocker' timestamp='1340485072' post='5155154']
FireGuyFrank,
Thanks for the post and helping me back up my data. Your numbers sound really solid. Are you seeing a decrease in loft with guys you play with? BTW, what do you think of the R11 head? I have an low lofted R7 with, not the same but similar shaft, as my gamer Cleveland/Fuikura, but I hate the way it sounds.
[/quote]
A few of the guys I play with are all lower HC then me, mainly single digits and they all hit lower lofted drivers. They have very consistent swings that don't produce much side spin and shape a lot of their shots. They are all below 9 degrees. I love the R11s head, hate the sound. I had a SF TP 2.0 8.5 head that had amazing sound, the R11s has a bit more muted sound but just as hot a face.