Playing Hickory Golf

[stixman]

I have a question about hickory golf in America. You have different grasses, cool season bents etc in the Northern States and bermudas etc in the Southern. Variations of course occur with overseeding plus the mixed conditions existing in the center of the country.

Are there favored iron head styles which take into account these different cultivars? Would you ideally play a skinny blade in the North and a Maxwell,for example, in the South?

[BIG STU]

Now this is a disclaimer before hand this is just in fun.

I just saw a commercial on the PGA event that was promoting the sponsor of the event in the desert (Formerly the Bob Hope for us old timers). I guess this title sponsor does staffing. They were stressing the right tools for the job. They had a guy dressed in plus4s with an old oblong bag with hickory clubs. He was attempting to tee off and the hickory clubs were snapping at the hosel. I died laughing and thought of you guys. I told the old lady while laughing they do not know but that guy needs to see Tad Moore none of his stuff will snap like that I know. I just imagined that with you guys standing around. Like I said this was all in fun nothing malicious intended :taunt:

[Bella Woods]

Big Stu

 

It's funny how that commercial is pretty much the way most people view the old hickories in general. Dainty,decrepit etc. Little do they know. A lot of people feel that way with classic persimmons too.

 

Almost all of my play set has 85 to 90 year old shafts in them, they have been hitting the ball for all those years and will probably be hitting the ball long after I am gone too....

[BIG STU]

Yep Hickory is some tough stuff and will last if treated properly. I hear the misconception all the time about the persimmons too especially if out on the course. I had a guy ask me one day if I was afraid of cracking my Penna driver. I told him heck no not at this stage I could not crack it in the 90s when I was younger and stronger and I darn sure do not swing fast and hard enough now to do that.

[Blade Junkie]

I have a question about hickory golf in America. You have different grasses, cool season bents etc in the Northern States and bermudas etc in the Southern. Variations of course occur with overseeding plus the mixed conditions existing in the center of the country.

Are there favored iron head styles which take into account these different cultivars? Would you ideally play a skinny blade in the North and a Maxwell,for example, in the South?

 

Sounds like you're trying to decide which clubs to take to Cali and Florida !

 

Any pointers from our friends in the USA ?

[teevons]

I have a question about hickory golf in America. You have different grasses, cool season bents etc in the Northern States and bermudas etc in the Southern. Variations of course occur with overseeding plus the mixed conditions existing in the center of the country.

Are there favored iron head styles which take into account these different cultivars? Would you ideally play a skinny blade in the North and a Maxwell,for example, in the South?

southern cal uses berumda on fairways and bentgrass on greens

In the desert where I live and play most of the courses are kept up beautifully because of resort courses and to keep vacationers happy and keep them coming back

What I found in LA area is public course get tremendous amount of play and are not kept in the same condition and have lots of worn and blotchy areas because of amount of play Country clubs in LA area are another beast, kept in much better condition

I dont think that hickory players other than ones who have lots of clubs pay much attention to the grass regarding clubs they play, as with any hickory clubs you want to stay away from clubs that dig, bounce is your friend

[stixman]

I have a question about hickory golf in America. You have different grasses, cool season bents etc in the Northern States and bermudas etc in the Southern. Variations of course occur with overseeding plus the mixed conditions existing in the center of the country.

Are there favored iron head styles which take into account these different cultivars? Would you ideally play a skinny blade in the North and a Maxwell,for example, in the South?

 

Sounds like you're trying to decide which clubs to take to Cali and Florida !

 

Any pointers from our friends in the USA ?

 

Was it that blatent? Not very subtle, was I ?

 

Actually there is a point to the question. I prefer skinny blades, my FO/RTJs for example (and don't you just love a good 'name-drop') on a tight turfed links course where you can squeeze the ball and clubs with bounce work not so well, and I like Maxwells etc on meadow land courses. I thought maybe some folk on the other side might take a view.

Now Florida and bermudas, I imagine, would be more akin to what,exactly?

[Bella Woods]

Chris:

 

I think you don't need to worry so much about the type of grass as much as the "condition" of it,

Hard, soft, wet or dried out etc. I made the mistake of playing a few lofted shots at Carnoustie

with a niblick with a lot of bounce on it - should have used the thinner soled niblick.

 

The answer is to bring both sets - then you will be ready for anything..... (actually I would bring

your skinny bladed FO/RTJs - I think you will probably be able to play them well in both Florida and

California). And if does not turn out so good - everyone will admire your clubs anyway.

[stixman]

Good point, Bella. Question is ,'can I afford the insurance?'

A solitary FO/RTJ 6 iron sold for £277 sterling here on Ebay over the weekend :o Now that sounds a lot to me. Is there a new generation of collectors coming on stream?

 

Seriously though, I haven't played them for a while, and they deserve an outing!

[ebeer]

I don't have any FO/RTJ's, but I do play "standard" Stewart and Nicoll clubs as my playset (US West Coast...California, Oregon, Washington, Arizona). I don't think they dig too much. I do have some wider soled clubs (a wide flanged niblick and some Spalding Custom Made irons). Not sure I see an advantage of one over the other. I would more concentrate on bringing clubs to manage an aerial assault. Not sure where you are playing, but most of the courses I play (even hickory era courses with original 1920's design) require the American target approach. Tee shots often require carry, greens often elevated and guarded by bunkers, and fairways are often soft providing little runout option for tee shots that carry that 175 and rollout to 230. I like a jigger for high flying longer approach shots and usually carry two niblicks (one flanged for sand and green side flops, and one 52ish thin soled Stewart that covers everything from to 110yds to short approach shots). Recommend a brassie or higher lofted driving club that gets up consistently as carry is king for many US courses IMO.

[majic]

I have a question about hickory golf in America. You have different grasses, cool season bents etc in the Northern States and bermudas etc in the Southern. Variations of course occur with overseeding plus the mixed conditions existing in the center of the country.

Are there favored iron head styles which take into account these different cultivars? Would you ideally play a skinny blade in the North and a Maxwell,for example, in the South?

[majic]

Stix in the MacGregor catalog they reference a different part of the country for the flanged OA and Popular " B" series. I always assumed it was for the Southern markets.

I prefer these anyway. I never had an issue when being a member at Royal Troon I played. I am not a digger however.

Bring what you enjoy playing

[stixman]

Gentlemen, thank you for your thoughtful and insightful observations.

 

I shall now retire to the club room (garage) with a wet towel around my throbbing temples and select an ill-assorted disparate collection of hickories and persuade myself that they are appropriate for the task in hand.

 

I may commit these follies to camera :wacko:

[Blade Junkie]

Gentlemen, thank you for your thoughtful and insightful observations.

 

I shall now retire to the club room (garage) with a wet towel around my throbbing temples and select an ill-assorted disparate collection of hickories and persuade myself that they are appropriate for the task in hand.

 

I may commit these follies to camera :wacko:

 

We'll be fine Chris. I'll be playing a set I've never even seen let alone hit a ball with :)

 

One thing about being a classic/vintage club enthusiast is that you get to hit an awful lot of different clubs, and you quickly realise that your "score" is not really linked to a particular set or style of clubs, and is mainly a function of putting - how many 5-15 footers do you actually hole when the opportunity presents. It takes away all the uncertainty about having the "right" set of clubs for me !

 

 

My set will be "skinny blades" for the record, and I just know they are 100% perfect for conditions in Florida ... mainly because they will be the only option I will have out there ... :)

[stixman]

Gentlemen, thank you for your thoughtful and insightful observations.

 

I shall now retire to the club room (garage) with a wet towel around my throbbing temples and select an ill-assorted disparate collection of hickories and persuade myself that they are appropriate for the task in hand.

 

I may commit these follies to camera :wacko:

 

We'll be fine Chris. I'll be playing a set I've never even seen let alone hit a ball with :)

 

One thing about being a classic/vintage club enthusiast is that you get to hit an awful lot of different clubs, and you quickly realise that your "score" is not really linked to a particular set or style of clubs, and is mainly a function of putting - how many 5-15 footers do you actually hole when the opportunity presents. It takes away all the uncertainty about having the "right" set of clubs for me !

 

 

My set will be "skinny blades" for the record, and I just know they are 100% perfect for conditions in Florida ... mainly because they will be the only option I will have out there ... :)

 

Don't deny me a few theatricals, you know you love it!

 

I like your comment re. putting and those 5-15 footers, you haven't been having a chat with Rory, have you? :lol:

[gvogel]

I have a question about hickory golf in America. You have different grasses, cool season bents etc in the Northern States and bermudas etc in the Southern. Variations of course occur with overseeding plus the mixed conditions existing in the center of the country.

Are there favored iron head styles which take into account these different cultivars? Would you ideally play a skinny blade in the North and a Maxwell,for example, in the South?

 

Sounds like you're trying to decide which clubs to take to Cali and Florida !

 

Any pointers from our friends in the USA ?

 

Was it that blatent? Not very subtle, was I ?

 

Actually there is a point to the question. I prefer skinny blades, my FO/RTJs for example (and don't you just love a good 'name-drop') on a tight turfed links course where you can squeeze the ball and clubs with bounce work not so well, and I like Maxwells etc on meadow land courses. I thought maybe some folk on the other side might take a view.

Now Florida and bermudas, I imagine, would be more akin to what,exactly?

 

IF you are playing Temple Terrace in Florida, I think that you will find the fairways to be pretty firm. My recollection is that the iron shots that call for elevation, because of raised greens or bunkers in front, are mostly par 3's - so you will have the advantage of being able to use a tee for those. The rest of the greens can be accessed with lower, running shots, if needs be. If you happen to find the rough, you will find them to be sandy and with some pine straw close to trees.

 

Hope that helps.

[jonnygrouville]

Don't worry about your score. Let it looks after itself. Enjoy every shot. Enjoy the surroundings, the company, the clubs you're playing with, you lucky ba$tard.

 

Hope that helps.

[Fellaheen51]

Questions for the hickory folks about straightening shafts. Have a couple with some bows in them. With one, I've been able to remove about 80% of the bow by using a heat gun and a vise. Heating and bending using the eyeball technique. Rotating it 90* and "manipulating" the shaft into some degree of straightness. Surprised by how well this works. Using my entirely rudimentary techniques.

 

1. Once straightened, will it stay straight over time?

2. Other than a full scale straightening jig, any other tips or techniques you folks use? With a home hobbyist set of tools in mind.

3. This may be a stupid question to ask. Do you you play clubs that may not have "ruler straight" shafts (particularly under the grip)?

 

TIA. Could post some pics if needed. Set is coming together, been working on them of late. Hammering, filing and Dremel'ing them into some degree of respectability. But, not quite ready for primetime yet.

[ebeer]

Pretty much all you need to know is right here in this video.

 

The straightening tool can be purchased here http://www.hickorygo...com/-tools.html

 

I use a simpler (errr, cheaper) but still effective method by taking a 2x4 with straight guide lines drawn down the middle. I then drill holes wherever necessary in the wood to place dowels, which hold the club straight and allow me to apply heat. I also have a small work table with a gliding top. Recently I starting using this hold shape, then apply heat both top and bottom of shaft. It works pretty good as well.

 

I think the important part as Gary explains is to get really hot without scorching and then allow to fully cool before removing from your jig of choice.

 

 

 

 

[stixman]

Getting the shaft evenly hot without scorching is the key. Once achieved hickory will bend with ease.

 

I use a home made attachment ot my heatgun. It's very simple. It's a baked bean can with both ends removed. A hole is made with tin snips in the side, large enough to take the heatgun nozzle. The hole is cut from a center point with the cuts radiating outwards to the hole diameter,; bent back these form the tin lugs which secure the can to the nozzle.

[Fellaheen51]

Thank you gentlemen for your responses. I experienced some return to a bow while "experimenting" yesterday (upon examination this a.m.). Mostly likely because I did not use a jig and allow the shaft to cool while being held in place. Dug out the ShopMate this morning and will give it a go. If not satisfactory, will build one of those cheap jig setups. Thanks for the pic.

 

As a novice, I was concerned with overheating the wood. Seems that the hotter, the better (short of scorching). Thanks for posting the video ebeer, that was helpful.

 

Visualizing, once the can is attached, the heat is dispersed evenly 360* as you move the shaft through the can? Then, after heating, place the shaft into a jig?

 

As long as I'm performing this reclamation project, might as well do it right.

[ebeer]

We've had a bit of a dry spell over the last week or so in Norcal. While we desperately need the water, it's nice to see my local course dry out a bit. Played an afternoon 9 yesterday and was pleasantly surprised to find a freshly cut course playing firmer than it has been during our El Nino inspired wet winter. The course certainly was not playing easy, but it was nice to get a little runout on the tee shots (so critical as IMO the biggest handicap with hickory is the lack of modern distance off the tee). The firmness also opened up some running shots, which for the most part have been either ill-advised or less than productive when trying to hit running approaches over soft, muddy, and long grass conditions. This ground game is one aspect I find most rewarding about hickory. Watching many players elect to hit 56 and 60 degree wedges from green side pinch lies, hickory encourages me to play a higher percentage runner. The reaction from playing partners (when the shots are good) is always of surprise or with comments of how inventive the shot was. Funny, it's not really inventive as much as response to vintage clubs that produce less spin. This higher percentage shot has surfaced in my modern bag when I play it....guess I have hickory to thank for that, especially the jigger which is likely the favorite among my current play set.

[jonnygrouville]

A good jigger is an incredible club. Chips around the green, the long-distance chip or anything between 160 to 100 yards going down the grip. Versatile is not the word.

[farmer]

Just a question, and I have 0 knowledge about hickory golf. I assume that shafts are made by turning down blanks. Given that modern equipment and technology is a quantum leap away from the old days, are modern hickory shafts better than they were at the height of the hickory era?

[rex235]

Stix in the MacGregor catalog they reference a different part of the country for the flanged OA and Popular " B" series. I always assumed it was for the Southern markets.

I prefer these anyway. I never had an issue when being a member at Royal Troon I played. I am not a digger however.

Bring what you enjoy playing

 

Tad-

 

+1 on your Golf Channel spot with Charlie Rymer....

[gvogel]

Just a question, and I have 0 knowledge about hickory golf. I assume that shafts are made by turning down blanks. Given that modern equipment and technology is a quantum leap away from the old days, are modern hickory shafts better than they were at the height of the hickory era?

 

I have no idea. But I suspect that it would be hard to generalize, as all shafts are different. I suspect that you can get a really good modern shaft, and a really good antique shaft, and more than a few that don't suit you.

 

I need Tad to chime in.

[majic]

We feel we make as good a shaft as possible. I imagine Gibson the largest maker make many great shafts We make the shaft today I think via a lathe that might be a little different but not being able to find any manufacturing data i don't know.

[Boney]

I'm sorely tempted to get a hickory set and give it a try. I have a very nice (if lightweight) hickory shafted putter, and a decent looking Mashie Niblick stamped "Anderson Anstruther" I've hit on a grass range a few times. I think I lean towards getting a matched reproduction set (Tad's look great). But I don't think I want to give up the "modern" game.

 

I haven't read this whole thread, but are there people who do both, and how does that work for you? Do you feel the difference between playing hickories and modern clubs is an added complication to the learning process? Is there an "adjustment period" when you change eras?

[Boney]

Here's my putter:

 

 

[ebeer]

Cool putter there Boney. You may already be aware but that's modeled after the Arthur Brown drop nose putter he originally designed for Harry Vardon when he got the yips (more than yips actually, instead and hand tremor that plagued his putting). Anyway the putter while light by today's standards was heavier back then and help steady the putting stroke. Nice piece!