Tiger’s dominance hurting golf, Shark says

[Gxgolfer]

'With fewer and fewer people watching ... the sport has become st

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/15221138/

Norman, who has played little golf - and watched even less - since making his senior's tour debut last year, also said the technology used in making golf clubs should be reserved for amateurs only.

"I have a problem with someone winning a golf tournament without using a driver,'' Norman said. "The game has always been dominated by power-hitter players, but today you can't tell the difference between the players because of the technology.''

Norman said he only watched this year's Ryder Cup after his daughter, who is dating Sergio Garcia, urged him to do so.

[sergizmo]

What can anyone in charge (USGA, PGA, hosting courses, etc...) do to stop Tiger? Not much. It is up to the players to beat him. An argument could be made that payouts for finishing reasonably well and endorsement contracts have gotten so out of hand there is no real pressure to win. Players get comfy making most of the cuts, finishing top 20 once in a while, and raking in millions without sniffing a win. This argument does have some merit. But what companies pay to players in terms of endorsement contracts can't be controlled. They could skew the winnings very top heavy. Example, purse of $6 million, $3 million to the winner (as opposed to $1.1 million). But the players would just not have this and there would be a revolt on tour.

 

As for technology, the cat is out of the bag. It's just too late. Any major rollbacks, either to clubs or balls, would almost certainly result in lawsuits. The USGA doesn't want a repeat of the Ping square groove fiasco, but this time with several OEM's. They are effectively neutralized from fear of litigation. It's too bad, because I really do wish the USGA would do something. It's getting a little out of control, even at the amateur level. No, everyone isn't suddenly dropping 65's. But some of this new equipment is in some cases reducing the skill needed to pull off shots. For example, the new milled faced, square grooved generation of wedges help a player of any skill level big time out of heavy rough, especially greenside. From early reports, the new square headed drivers are almost impossible to slice/hook. This, in my opinion, does take away some skill and prestige from the game. And I am by no means a good player.

 

Another point about the USGA, they aren't enforcing their own rules. How are the Sumo Square or FT-i "Traditional in shape"? What club would actually fail this test? A trapezoidal club with a rhombus cutout?

Also, why even bother with the MOI limit if they are going to make it so high? Supposedly the new square drivers are still well below the limit. They aren't going to get much bigger, so this new rule is of very limited use.

 

I can sympathize with Norman, and understand his frustration. To many people, it's boring watching Tiger trounce the field, week after week. It gets tiresome seeing the Sunday melt-downs. The only time the rest of the tour comes in to focus is when Tiger is working on his swing. It's not that Tiger winning is bad, it isn't. It's that there is no-one on tour right now that is even in the stratosphere of his play, and the results are predictable.

[dac]

...didn't norman's macgregor commercials emphasize how technology has improved his game (distance/length) and now he's knocking it?

 

what he says has some merit, but, in my opinion, golf is still a honed-skill sport. the best game improvement equipment with all the top notch technology in the world is still not going to help me to shoot in the 70's. i have to be good enough to play the equipment in the first place for any of that stuff to matter. just my thoughts...

[xxio]

In my experience it works both ways.

 

The guys who are anti TW, the guys who have been playing even before TW tend to get bored.

 

The guys who play 6xs a year, the new golfers, the TW fans watch tiger even when he is 6 up going to the last round.

 

I don't know the actual numbers but GN probably falls into the previous group of guys (like me) that is why he finds it boring.

[tbowles411]

I for one just love golf no matter who's playing. Having said that, I will never get tired of watching El Tigre put on a clinic. Everyone loved watching Jordan in his prime hit shot after shot from everywhere and make a dunk starting from half-court. The guy hits a 3 wood farther than most hit driver, and is changing the way the game is played. Even Bubba Watson is starting to make different decisions and not pull driver everytime. It's great when you can pound it 340 yards, but when your hitting your second from the next hole's fairway makes it harder to win.

[Lionstar]

Until Tiger came along I believe The Shark may have been the previous decade's richest and most dominant player.Now that those titles belong to Tiger.Jealousy???

Maybe Mr.Norman is confusing his "net worth" with his "self worth".

[tbowles411]

Until Tiger came along I believe The Shark may have been the previous decade's richest and most dominant player.Now that those titles belong to Tiger.Jealousy???

Maybe Mr.Norman is confusing his "net worth" with his "self worth".

:( :) :)

[nikemike]

"Fewer and fewer people watching" does not get you mega-million dollar TV deals. Not only is ole Greggy off the mark, but I sense some bitterness as well.

[tbowles411]

"Fewer and fewer people watching" does not get you mega-million dollar TV deals. Not only is ole Greggy off the mark, but I sense some bitterness as well.

Lets face it, Norman was the MAN in his day. After Nicklaus and Watson, he was a pure ball striker and known for deadly drives. The game changed and he didn't change with it, plus like all of us eventually, age caught up. Maybe his dis-interest, is a product of non-competitiveness. When 20 somethings like Camillo are blasting it 30-40 yards past you, that's got to hurt the ego.

[xxio]

Guys. I looked for the actual article. It seems the editor and writer took quite a bit of journalistic freedom the wrong way here.

 

Except for this article here the same article appears under a more appropriate headline everwhere else.

[Subsonic]

Competition doesn't hurt a competitive sport. It forces everyone else to elevate their game.

[Carlo]

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/15221138/

 

Norman, who has played little golf - and watched even less - since making his senior's tour debut last year, also said the technology used in making golf clubs should be reserved for amateurs only.

 

"I have a problem with someone winning a golf tournament without using a driver,'' Norman said. "The game has always been dominated by power-hitter players, but today you can't tell the difference between the players because of the technology.''

 

Norman said he only watched this year's Ryder Cup after his daughter, who is dating Sergio Garcia, urged him to do so.

 

1. Most of the technology has been used on drivers - so if he wins a tournament without he did not use technology that much

2. The irons he uses are players blades which are exactly the same specifications (different company) he used when he won his amateurs tournaments

3. And most important, he competes with the course and not against other players. He plan strategy and uses what it is best for him on particular situations (see British Open)

4. He has no worries about winning for monies because he does not need any so mind free about that too

5. Due to the above he is the greatest player in the world and no greatest player of the past will ever admit it openly

 

Greg Norman was a great player, but he did not have the determination and strategy of Tiger Woods in beating a golf course... he competed against other players! And that makes the difference IMO

[Lionstar]

Phil,Ernie,Vijay,Furyk,,,,to say they are not good enough is an insult to them and a disservice to Tiger,,,I understand your point but we are witnessing the greatest player EVER to play the game,,,if Nicklaus,Palmer,Watson ,Trevino were in their prime today they would be in the same boat as Phil,Ernie et al,,,this is not a problem,,,it is an honor to witness.

[Lionstar]

I think we agree on the dominance of Tiger,,,but how can someone be "too good" ???My point is that in one way the other great players we have mentioned are maybe not "good enough" as you say but they are SUPER golfers.To not be able to compete regularly with TW is a phenomenon of the total greatness of Tiger in this day and time.But they are "good enough" to beat him,,,they all have,,just not as many times as he beats them.

[leeux]

Norman sure made some good TV, blowing leads in majors in epical proportion.

 

I liked Norman, power with superb iron play but he never had the mental edge. What we are witnessing is just amazing. It is like attending the premiere of a Mozart concert...Tiger just has this insatiable will that not many athletes have.

 

As stated many times before, the money that Tiger generated for all tour players is probably the reason why so many are comfortable with not being the best because they still get tons of money. For Tiger it's not about the money, it is about winning and matching the records of the all time greats.

 

Sure it would be nice, if 2-3 players challenged him for a longer period of time (VJ did for 1-2 years ans did Phil) but let's look at it this way: Wilt had Russell, Magic had Bird like Nicklaus had Palmer, Watson, Player etc, who did MJ have? Name one team or player that really competed with the Bulls.

 

Later when I am a grandfather I can tell my grandchildren, I saw the end of Nicklaus' playing days and start to finish of Tiger's. I witnessed the 2 most dominating golfers ever.

[Carlo]

There was also great golf between Greg Norman and Nick Price!

 

I laugh when I read on this post that Michelson, Furik and Singh are not good enough to beat Tiger!

 

There are periods when Phil is the best... 2 consecutive majors wins have already been forgotten? Or Furik has the good feeling (is he not the 2nd in the world?) ...

 

These guys are all at the same great level, it just depends on the period and mental condition (Tiger did not make the cut in the US Open right?)

[BEND OF THE RIVER GC]

For as good or great that TW really is (arguably the BEST EVER), I read somewhere that Tiger only wins 25% of the time he tees it up. It also helps (and adds to his mystique) that the networks only show Tiger on TV MOST of the time. I agree, Tiger is the ruler of his era, and we are fortunate enough to watch it all unfold. I wish I could have seen some of the legendary great such as Jones, Hagen, Snead, Nelson and Hogan just to name a few.

 

The SHARK was once one of my favorite players and he still had a LOT of golf left in him after he blew the Masters to Faldo in 1996. I think Greg may not have had the desire for tournament golf (maybe enjoyed the wheeling and dealing in the business world) like Tiger STILL DOES. I agree that Tiger DOES NOT play for the money, he has enough of that now. Tiger simply plays to beat the field, week in and week out. Tiger would play the same way if he was playing in my foursome at the local muni every Saturday morning with nothing on the line, except the scorecard.

 

One could also argue that Tiger's dominance has created more players capable of winning on any given week on the PGA Tour. This is so true.

 

Hey SHARK, come on back and try to win a few on the Senior Tour (or even the PGA Tour) why don't ya? Or do you already have too many 2nd place trophies on the mantle?

[great1putt]

I don't think people quit watching when Tiger is trouncing the field. I think golfers get put out with the silly media shoving Tiger down everyone's throat every week. Yes, Tiger is the man but when Tiger does have that tournament when he is not in contention, the media still shows everyone of his shots forgoing the leaders shots. The media did the same with Norman in the 80's. Even when Tiger missed a cut the media spent Saturday and Sunday showing shots from Tigers 1st and 2nd rounds. I think this is what the public is growing tired of.

[housey]

norman is talking out of his arse

[sandy]

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/15221138/

 

Norman, who has played little golf - and watched even less - since making his senior's tour debut last year, also said the technology used in making golf clubs should be reserved for amateurs only.

 

"I have a problem with someone winning a golf tournament without using a driver,'' Norman said. "The game has always been dominated by power-hitter players, but today you can't tell the difference between the players because of the technology.''

 

Norman said he only watched this year's Ryder Cup after his daughter, who is dating Sergio Garcia, urged him to do so.

 

He is right in one respect. While the top 150 may be better golfers top to bottom than in Nicklaus's day there certainly isn't any Palmers, Watsons, Trevinos, Players, Caspers, Floyds, Irwins etc. etc. challenging Tiger. Is anyone playing today other than VJ, Ernie, Retief got multiple major wins?? And those guys appear to have disappeared from the map.

[sandy]

Tiger Woods Verses Greg Norman one major difference and that is it MAJORS. If Greg Norman had not been the eternal chocker he could propbarbly be able to hold an argument with Tiger.\

If Tiger was in the same ara as Greg the reult would have been the same as it is now. Even the great Jack Nicalus has stated that Tiger is the best thing he has ever seen on the golf course to be able to go into a Major and hit your driver once your mental toughness and your ability to believe in your own ability is something else. Yes technology has changed butt there is a story that Tiger told in the 2000 Masters where Phil Michelson stood up and smashed his driver on Amen corner and Tiger stood up drove the ball 15 past him with his three wood, he turned to Tiger and asked do you always hit that 3 wood that far Tiger responded i actually got it out of the heal i would usually be 20-30 past you.

Tiger could stand up on the first tee with a hockey stick and still hit the ball further than most guys.

I think Greg needs to introduce his daughter to Paul Cassey because he is going to be the next best thing in golf, Back a winner Greg not another chocker.

 

Give Greg all his chokes and he still isn't approaching half of Tiger's majors. I see Paul Casey has the same number of majors as Sergio and probably fewer wins. Pretty close in age I would guess. Plus Paul ain't never going to get the endorsements that Sergio gets. His mouth has seen to that.

[kurob]

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/15221138/

 

Norman, who has played little golf - and watched even less - since making his senior's tour debut last year, also said the technology used in making golf clubs should be reserved for amateurs only.

 

"I have a problem with someone winning a golf tournament without using a driver,'' Norman said. "The game has always been dominated by power-hitter players, but today you can't tell the difference between the players because of the technology.''

 

Norman said he only watched this year's Ryder Cup after his daughter, who is dating Sergio Garcia, urged him to do so.

 

He is right in one respect. While the top 150 may be better golfers top to bottom than in Nicklaus's day there certainly isn't any Palmers, Watsons, Trevinos, Players, Caspers, Floyds, Irwins etc. etc. challenging Tiger. Is anyone playing today other than VJ, Ernie, Retief got multiple major wins?? And those guys appear to have disappeared from the map.

1) It's harder to get multiple majors now, because the fields (that top 150) are deeper.

2) I'm not yet convinced that Tiger's chasers AREN'T as good an Nicklaus'. Tiger beats deeper fields at a faster rate than Jack did...it's possible that he's just better than Jack and Phil, Ernie, Furyk, Retief, etc would have been Palmer, Watson, Trevino, Player, etc had they been pursuing Jack.

 

To Shark's overall point, golf on TV is healthier than it's ever been. Hardcore golf fans might be turning the channel when Tiger runs away, but those fans he brought in...the ones that drove the purses and TV money way up, are still watching.

[elcid93]

I wonder how much of this bitterness he might be getting from Sergio now that he is dating GN's daughter? I can just see them splitting a bottle of wine at the Norman vineyard, bitching about how Sergio will never be any better with Tiger in the picture.

[dlygrisse]

Norman would have done anything to dominate the sport like Tiger is doing. The fact is he choked away his many chances to make it happen. He is the greatest under acheiver in the history of the game.

 

So did Norman intentionally choke his way out of winning 10 majors just so people would keep watching golf on TV? Riduculous! I sounds to me like Norman is frustrated, jealous, and bitter about how he couldnt make it happen when he needed to like Tiger has done. Dont get me wrong I loved watching Norman play golf, he was the most exciting player of his generation. The fact is he only won two majors, and both of them he won pretty easily. He could never pull a close one off, and he even blew the Masters wiht a 6 shot cushion. If you think watching someone make dumb decisions and essentially play the way Mickelson did at the US Open is great televison then maybe Norman is right, the fact is I would much rather watch Nicklaus or Tiger play great than watch someone choke thier guts out.

[rgk5]

I read the article and it reads like a 9th grade piece, poorly structured, with little reference to context.

 

No doubt Greg is controversial at times but much of what he is reported to say about the Tour being boring is quite true, witness this week's snooze fest in Las Vegas.

[sandy]

Tiger Woods Verses Greg Norman one major difference and that is it MAJORS. If Greg Norman had not been the eternal chocker he could propbarbly be able to hold an argument with Tiger.\

If Tiger was in the same ara as Greg the reult would have been the same as it is now. Even the great Jack Nicalus has stated that Tiger is the best thing he has ever seen on the golf course to be able to go into a Major and hit your driver once your mental toughness and your ability to believe in your own ability is something else. Yes technology has changed butt there is a story that Tiger told in the 2000 Masters where Phil Michelson stood up and smashed his driver on Amen corner and Tiger stood up drove the ball 15 past him with his three wood, he turned to Tiger and asked do you always hit that 3 wood that far Tiger responded i actually got it out of the heal i would usually be 20-30 past you.

Tiger could stand up on the first tee with a hockey stick and still hit the ball further than most guys.

I think Greg needs to introduce his daughter to Paul Cassey because he is going to be the next best thing in golf, Back a winner Greg not another chocker.

 

Give Greg all his chokes and he still isn't approaching half of Tiger's majors. I see Paul Casey has the same number of majors as Sergio and probably fewer wins. Pretty close in age I would guess. Plus Paul ain't never going to get the endorsements that Sergio gets. His mouth has seen to that.

 

This one has really brought the idiots out.

 

What the hell is this to do with Paul Casey? Oh yeah, I forgot - he is a Euro so lets bash him and Sergio.

 

Name me any US player of Casey or Garcia's age with a major professional victory?

 

Ben Curtis? - maybe he is the future of US golf post Tiger :drinks: :cheesy:

 

Nobody is bashing Sergio, he knows not to stick his foot in his mouth---can't say the same thing about Paul (and oh yes I have meant both men----have you????????) Sergio is a great guy with a tremendous sense of humor. Paul is Paul and I'm not talking about his infamous blast at americans, he is as arrogant as Sergio is humble. Sergio---enthusiastic, Paul---arrogant, abrasive--nothing to do with him being a euro, he could be from anywhere he just has an unpleasant personality. Both very good young golfers and should ring up a number of majors as soon as Tiger retires and the majors become a team sport.

 

 

Majors???

 

Ben Curtis 1

Paul Casey 0

Sergio Garcia 0

[dlygrisse]

Don't put Nicklaus in the same class as Vijay, Phil Sergio etc. I promise you if Niclaus was in his prime today him and Tiger would be dukeing it out on a regular basis. Tiger and Nicklaus have one thing none of these others have. The ability to get the ball in the hole when they need to (mental toughness). Phil rarley has it, Sergio never has it, Paul has never been in contention to see if he has it, Vijay never seems to have it when Tiger is around the leaderboard. Nicklaus had it, Palmer had it for awhle, Watson had it until he got the yips, Trevino would have probably stole on or two from tiger as well. Nicklaus won 18 majors and took second 20 times! If Watson Trevino etc. would not have been around Tiger would be chasing a much higher number. If Tiger were playing against someone with some balls he would have a much rougher road ahead.