Hoganesque/old-schoolish 14 year old....Andy Zhang

[Ben Hogan Swing Project]

Wow!

 

When I first heard of this 14-year old making it to the US Open, my first thoughts were "hmmmm, he must be a new-school wrist flipper to be able to hang with the big boys' distance."

 

After finally seeing his swing..........Man was I wrong. Impact and post impact looks good!!

 

[media=]

[/media]

[Timanator]

Thats not a Hogan release.

[evanleeball]

So it must be wrong.

[dlygrisse]

Looks more like AK than Hogan, but a nice swing. Amazing that a 14 year old can qualifiy..good for him.

[Timanator]

[quote name='evanleeball' timestamp='1339809440' post='5104180']
So it must be wrong.
[/quote]

No but this is the Hogan forum.

[Thrillhouse]

I think people often see what they want to see. So if you like hogans move and you think someone is a good player you will subconsciously choose to see what you want in their swing, in this case a hoganesque release that isn't really there.

No harm no foul.

[Pinsplitter59]

what really really surprised me about this kid was that he attends a David Golddigger school.
hard to believe there might be a teacher in one of those places who actually knows something,
its obviously a pretty good golf swing.

[Thrillhouse]

[quote name='Pinsplitter59' timestamp='1339822079' post='5105526']
what really really surprised me about this kid was that he attends a David Golddigger school.
hard to believe there might be a teacher in one of those places who actually knows something,
its obviously a pretty good golf swing.
[/quote]

Yeah, they haven't produced anyone good at the Leadbetter academy. Except for Charles Howell, Paula creamer, Casey Wittenberg, Sean o'hair, Peter uihlein, aree song, narre song, Julieta Granada.

[Pinsplitter59]

SEE
that's how much I know...........

[Ben Hogan Swing Project]

[quote name='Thrillhouse' timestamp='1339821501' post='5105480']
I think people often see what they want to see. So if you like hogans move and you think someone is a good player you will subconsciously choose to see what you want in their swing, in this case a hoganesque release that isn't really there.

No harm no foul.
[/quote]

Hmmmm my good fellow, I thought that my initial post gave you enough of an understanding of what I refer to as Hoganesque/old-schooler, but it appears that you don't get it.

When I refer to Hoganesque/old-schooler, I'm talking about these types of golf swings where elbow is connected to body and pivot is very involved with moving club through..........the kind I like:

[attachment=1213844:zhang dtl impadt.jpg]

[attachment=1213846:scott dtl impadt.jpg]

[attachment=1213848:woodland dtl impadt.jpg]


When I refer to new-school wrist flipper, I am refering to these type of golf swings......the kind I don't like:

[attachment=1213850:fowler dtl impadt.jpg]

[attachment=1213852:tiger dtl impadt.jpg]


I like the style of swing on the left, but not the style of swing on the right...

[attachment=1213854:me and hogan dtl impadt.jpg]

[Ben Hogan Swing Project]

[quote name='Timanator' timestamp='1339802648' post='5103240']
Thats not a Hogan release.
[/quote]

Sorry man, I don't know what "release" means.

[Ranger Rick]

I know what the OP is getting at but I agree, it isn't a Hogan swing. It has a lower right elbow that stays connected vs high hands and disconnect through impact.

[Timanator]

OP, if you get a chance to look up Slicefixer's 2 hour webinar on Youtube, he explains the release better than anyone. This kid has a good swing, but there is something he does with the face of the club after impact that makes it looking more stall and roll(Mickelson, VJ) than the Flat and drag(Hogan, Slicefixer students)

[Ben Hogan Swing Project]

[quote name='Timanator' timestamp='1339852272' post='5106660']
OP, if you get a chance to look up Slicefixer's 2 hour webinar on Youtube, he explains the release better than anyone. This kid has a good swing, but there is something he does with the face of the club after impact that makes it looking more stall and roll(Mickelson, VJ) than the Flat and drag(Hogan, Slicefixer students)
[/quote]

Watching the webinar again now.

[svsvincenzo]

[quote name='Timanator' timestamp='1339852272' post='5106660']
OP, if you get a chance to look up Slicefixer's 2 hour webinar on Youtube, he explains the release better than anyone. This kid has a good swing, but there is something he does with the face of the club after impact that makes it looking more stall and roll(Mickelson, VJ) than the Flat and drag(Hogan, Slicefixer students)
[/quote]

Hogan during release is dragging, yes; but flat? What's flat in my avatar and in this:

[attachment=1213866:IMG_0501.jpg]

[Timanator]

[b] [url="http://www.golfwrx.com/forums/user/109849-svsvincenzo/"]svsvincenzo[/url], i should qualify it by saying it is flatter than most on tour today. [/b]

[chrisgilly09]

svs is saying that Hogan's L side extension is what allowed him to keep rotating without stalling. He was standing up; Zhang is more like Sergio

[fats]

[quote name='svsvincenzo' timestamp='1339854158' post='5106798']
[quote name='Timanator' timestamp='1339852272' post='5106660']
OP, if you get a chance to look up Slicefixer's 2 hour webinar on Youtube, he explains the release better than anyone. This kid has a good swing, but there is something he does with the face of the club after impact that makes it looking more stall and roll(Mickelson, VJ) than the Flat and drag(Hogan, Slicefixer students)
[/quote]

Hogan during release is dragging, yes; but flat? What's flat in my avatar and in this:

[attachment=1213866:IMG_0501.jpg]
[/quote]

That's really a great sequence. Pretty much says everything I've ever talked about especially the pelvis move.

[svsvincenzo]

[quote name='fats' timestamp='1339881456' post='5108816']
[quote name='svsvincenzo' timestamp='1339854158' post='5106798']
[quote name='Timanator' timestamp='1339852272' post='5106660']
OP, if you get a chance to look up Slicefixer's 2 hour webinar on Youtube, he explains the release better than anyone. This kid has a good swing, but there is something he does with the face of the club after impact that makes it looking more stall and roll(Mickelson, VJ) than the Flat and drag(Hogan, Slicefixer students)
[/quote]

Hogan during release is dragging, yes; but flat? What's flat in my avatar and in this:

[attachment=1213866:IMG_0501.jpg]
[/quote]

That's really a great sequence. Pretty much says everything I've ever talked about especially the pelvis move.
[/quote]

The move...always puts a smile on my face...lol

[svsvincenzo]

[quote name='Timanator' timestamp='1339871891' post='5108152']
[b] [url="http://www.golfwrx.com/forums/user/109849-svsvincenzo/"]svsvincenzo[/url], i should qualify it by saying it is flatter than most on tour today. [/b]
[/quote]

Relative to Hogan's height, yes, of course, because most Tour players are taller than him. But as a general rule? C'mon...saying Hogan swung low and flat will mess up Hoganites...lol

As I've mentioned before, based on that sequence I posted, how could Hogan have swung flat and have a release low and left intent when his shoulders and, consequently, L arm are swinging relatively upright than most, and his L elbow, even post impact, is still in front of his torso? If he swung/released flat and low and left, with his upright shoulder turn and, consequently, as less curved as possible clubhead path, Hogan would have to really bend that L elbow and pull it to his L side vigorously, which Hogan never did as can be seen in that sequence. And as mentioned by chrisgilly09, he extends his L side and is standing up, so to speak, with his lower body...do you know how that affects the baseline/clubhead path and sweetspot/clubface orientation? So if Hogan is doing this, and he swung flat, low and left, he would shank or slice the ball big time...ohh, and Hogan had a really weak L hand grip, slightly weaker R hand grip, and a sweetspot that's bent to 5degrees open...lol

[MizunoJoe]

[quote name='fats' timestamp='1339881456' post='5108816']
That's really a great sequence. Pretty much says everything I've ever talked about especially [b]the pelvis move[/b].
[/quote]

That move clearly shows why "running the right knee at the ball" is merely a result and not a causal move.

[svsvincenzo]

[quote name='MizunoJoe' timestamp='1340041132' post='5121978']
[quote name='fats' timestamp='1339881456' post='5108816']
That's really a great sequence. Pretty much says everything I've ever talked about especially [b]the pelvis move[/b].
[/quote]

That move clearly shows why "running the right knee at the ball" is merely a result and not a causal move.
[/quote]

Agree. But IMO it is an absolute checkpoint. I mean, you're doing something wrong if it doesn't happen together with the R foot drag move.

[svsvincenzo]

By the way, look at the 2nd to 3rd picture, from cup to flat L wrist...I like the 3rd picture...very few can do that...club still lagging and hands almost in front of and near the R thigh.

[tembolo1284]

awesome pictures sir.

[coachg]

[quote name='Thrillhouse' timestamp='1339822540' post='5105572']
[quote name='Pinsplitter59' timestamp='1339822079' post='5105526']
what really really surprised me about this kid was that he attends a David Golddigger school.
hard to believe there might be a teacher in one of those places who actually knows something,
its obviously a pretty good golf swing.
[/quote]

Yeah, they haven't produced anyone good at the Leadbetter academy. Except for Charles Howell, Paula creamer, Casey Wittenberg, Sean o'hair, Peter uihlein, aree song, narre song, Julieta Granada.
[/quote]Leadbetter also worked with Price and Faldo when they were in their prime.

[jak_bot]

[quote name='svsvincenzo' timestamp='1339903493' post='5111300']
[quote name='Timanator' timestamp='1339871891' post='5108152']
[b] [url="http://www.golfwrx.com/forums/user/109849-svsvincenzo/"]svsvincenzo[/url], i should qualify it by saying it is flatter than most on tour today. [/b]
[/quote]

Relative to Hogan's height, yes, of course, because most Tour players are taller than him. But as a general rule? C'mon...saying Hogan swung low and flat will mess up Hoganites...lol

[b]As I've mentioned before, based on that sequence I posted, how could Hogan have swung flat and have a release low and left intent when his shoulders and, consequently, L arm are swinging relatively upright than most, and his L elbow, even post impact, is still in front of his torso? If he swung/released flat and low and left, with his upright shoulder turn and, consequently, as less curved as possible clubhead path, Hogan would have to really bend that L elbow and pull it to his L side vigorously, which Hogan never did as can be seen in that sequence[/b]. And as mentioned by chrisgilly09, he extends his L side and is standing up, so to speak, with his lower body...do you know how that affects the baseline/clubhead path and sweetspot/clubface orientation? So if Hogan is doing this, and he swung flat, low and left, he would shank or slice the ball big time...ohh, and Hogan had a really weak L hand grip, slightly weaker R hand grip, and a sweetspot that's bent to 5degrees open...lol
[/quote]


Hush.... Hush... No need to be bringing that up lol. You're going to ruin the fun I had the past year when someone on TV or on the range/course mentioned low and left.