Benifits to a mixed iron set

[Thrillhouse]

[quote name='zerofade' timestamp='1342558006' post='5294634']
I have never seen someone with a set of cb short and mb long irons..
[/quote]

Tom Lehman in the 90's had some old cobra blades in the 1 and 2 irons and then had taylormade tours (with the orange cavity) 3-pw.

[MelloYello]

[quote name='crapula' timestamp='1342543145' post='5292854']
[quote name='FLOGMR' timestamp='1342505467' post='5290654']
Combo or progressive sets have been around for ages....I had my first set around 1993...Wilson Staff Progressive. There was also a great Mizuno set around that time called Mizuno Grads (graduated from blades to cavities as you went up the set)
If you get any of the current MB to CB combos made up for you and your club-fitter knows what he is doing the transition will be seamless and there will be no weight or flex differences at all.
I have made up a couple of sets of Miura combos for myself that were awesome......no transition problems of any kind.......Just takes tweaking and a little time........If your club-fitter can't do this for you....Time for a new fitter!!
[/quote]

Agree. A good club maker should absolutely be able to make a set that feels and plays the same.

But, I would say if you are a single digit hcp, go with all mb's, f*ck it. Or, get cb's in the scoring clubs and mb's in the long irons, think about it, [u][b]wouldn't you want more "forgiveness" in the clubs you use to hit greens[/b][/u] rather than the clubs you will rarely use except to lay up on a par five or a long par 3?

Then again, if you aren't going to get a 3 iron, why even get any mb's, go with all cb's.
[/quote]


Seriously kids....that statement right there in bold has merit. A little forgiveness to keep the ball high and straight and improve the GIR numbers is not a bad thing. Forgiveness in the short irons might theoretically be [i]more[/i] important than in the long irons for some folks. How well you hit your 3 and 4 iron (for some people) can be almost irrelevant. I know I'm not making birdie off mine a lot! I only ever use them on Par-5s or where I've really messed up on a Par-4. In fact, even though I could hit them fine I took the 3 and 4 blades out of my bag and threw in a 22* hybrid to replace the two of them. I can hit the hybrid from a lot more places and step on it a little when I need to.

I play blades so I don't condemn people who do but it takes a lot of skill and consistency to make them useful. I think most players would do best by just keeping forged CBs through the whole set. You have to be really versatile to work those blades for different shapes and trajectories even though it's really a fun way to play once you can.

Just cautioning any mid-handicaps reading this thread!

[Myherobobhope]

I'm not sure how I feel on this topic... I play cavity backs across the spectrum, but didn't put much thought into my set.

The main pro I can see on the blade/MB lower iron front is that they are more "precision" tools. I've seen some people claim that their dispersion on well hit shots is lower with blades and they put more balls on the pin.

On the other hand, if you are in a position to score, you should have a pretty clear shot at the pin... you don't need much workability from "scoring" irons. Or at least, I don't. I tend to try to hit the ball at the middle of the green and then work it into the pin. It's not much of a draw or a fade... I can do it just fine with cavity backs.

I think it comes down to your misses on both sides of mixed set...

I'm going to have to put more thought into this before I get my next set.

[Robert Brown]

For most, this is a great idea...the lowest my index has ever been (3.2 hdcp) was when I had a mixed set of irons ... Ping G5 longer irons & the rest were first generation Eye 2's...I am a low launch + low spin player so it was much more helpful to me to have the G5 longer irons. Even now, at 60 years old, I am doing the 4 & 5 G15 hybrid with the G15 irons on down...I am playing to a 6.6 ... there is no way I could still hold my hdcp in the single digit range if I did not follow the line of thinking you are asking about. Good luck!

[Myherobobhope]

[quote name='Robert Brown' timestamp='1342623122' post='5299406'] For most, this is a great idea...the lowest my index has ever been (3.2 hdcp) was when I had a mixed set of irons ... Ping G5 longer irons & the rest were first generation Eye 2's...I am a low launch + low spin player so it was much more helpful to me to have the G5 longer irons. Even now, at 60 years old, I am doing the 4 & 5 G15 hybrid with the G15 irons on down...I am playing to a 6.6 ... there is no way I could still hold my hdcp in the single digit range if I did not follow the line of thinking you are asking about. Good luck! [/quote]

This actually has me re-framing the issue...

What are the benefits of carrying a long iron over a hybrid? I think what defines a "long iron" is different for everyone, but I think instead of a mixed set, people should look at the break (4-5 iron for lower handicaps) and start putting hybrids/woods in the bag.

I think minimizing the different types of club in your bag makes things easier for most golfers.

I'm thinking my next bag will be:
Driver
3wood
3 hybrid
4 hybrid
5-GW "player's irons"
56 and 60 wedges

With the thought that I will never make a full swing with my 56 and 60 degree wedges and the belief that I can put my 5 iron into a scoring position.

[Timbo22]

To the critics saying 'you get different feels and trajectories with a mixed set' i would love to know how many of you have the ball striking ability to control your trajectory and tailor it so precisely. Secondly like its so hard to deal with - my 5 iron gets up quicker than my 9 iron, oh wow.

The only players I have ever seen hit it the same height everytime are all at top pro events, and even then not all of them. 99.9% amateurs talking about controlling trajectory this precisely = bs. I'm not talking about deliberately hitting knockdowns etc, I'm talking about standing on the range, hitting your stock swing 7 iron after 7 iron the exact same trajectory, only the very best ball strikers do this.

Split set is about distance control, blades more consistent and this is what you want 150ish yards in. Outside that your miss is x axis dominant so more forgiveness please. Not really hard to understand.

[MelloYello]

[quote name='Timbo22' timestamp='1342631882' post='5300376']
To the critics saying 'you get different feels and trajectories with a mixed set' i would love to know how many of you have the ball striking ability to control your trajectory and tailor it so precisely. Secondly like its so hard to deal with - my 5 iron gets up quicker than my 9 iron, oh wow.

The only players I have ever seen hit it the same height everytime are all at top pro events, and even then not all of them. 99.9% amateurs talking about controlling trajectory this precisely = bs. I'm not talking about deliberately hitting knockdowns etc, I'm talking about standing on the range, hitting your stock swing 7 iron after 7 iron the exact same trajectory, only the very best ball strikers do this.

Split set is about distance control, blades more consistent and this is what you want 150ish yards in. Outside that your miss is x axis dominant so more forgiveness please. Not really hard to understand.
[/quote]

I understand where you're coming from and agree most players (myself included) don't hit 5-irons that are virtually identical like a pro however when you are expecting the low, boring trajectory of your 6 blade to manifest in a 5-iron and instead you have a higher, flatter trajectory that takes getting used to and can definitely affect distance and make gaps different in the CBs than in the MBs.



What it comes down to is the great variety of clubs you play with the greater the stress you put on your golf swing to adapt to that long list of different clubs: driver, fairway metal, graphite-shafted hybrid, steel-shafted CB iron, steel-shafted MB iron, steel-shafted wedge, etc.

I think in general it's not unreasonable to say that many players are either good enough to carry blades or not. To say, [i]'...I can hit a 6 blade but not a 5...'[/i] tells me you don't know what you're talking about because you're standards are too loose. The people who play combo sets do it so they can slightly raise the trajectory of and add some consistency to the distance of their longest irons.

[RacineBoxer]

Having a mixed iron set to me is no different than having specialty wedges like Vokey/Cleveland as your Gap-SW-LW. When you transition from your set PW to your 52* Vokey, there is a difference. If you can tolerate that difference there, you can also tolerate it between the 6 & 7 irons IMO.

[Timbo22]

[quote name='MelloYello' timestamp='1342633933' post='5300580']
[quote name='Timbo22' timestamp='1342631882' post='5300376']
To the critics saying 'you get different feels and trajectories with a mixed set' i would love to know how many of you have the ball striking ability to control your trajectory and tailor it so precisely. Secondly like its so hard to deal with - my 5 iron gets up quicker than my 9 iron, oh wow.

The only players I have ever seen hit it the same height everytime are all at top pro events, and even then not all of them. 99.9% amateurs talking about controlling trajectory this precisely = bs. I'm not talking about deliberately hitting knockdowns etc, I'm talking about standing on the range, hitting your stock swing 7 iron after 7 iron the exact same trajectory, only the very best ball strikers do this.

Split set is about distance control, blades more consistent and this is what you want 150ish yards in. Outside that your miss is x axis dominant so more forgiveness please. Not really hard to understand.
[/quote]

I understand where you're coming from and agree most players (myself included) don't hit 5-irons that are virtually identical like a pro however when you are expecting the low, boring trajectory of your 6 blade to manifest in a 5-iron and instead you have a higher, flatter trajectory that takes getting used to and can definitely affect distance and make gaps different in the CBs than in the MBs.



What it comes down to is the great variety of clubs you play with the greater the stress you put on your golf swing to adapt to that long list of different clubs: driver, fairway metal, graphite-shafted hybrid, steel-shafted CB iron, steel-shafted MB iron, steel-shafted wedge, etc.

I think in general it's not unreasonable to say that many players are either good enough to carry blades or not. To say, [i]'...I can hit a 6 blade but not a 5...'[/i] tells me you don't know what you're talking about because you're standards are too loose. [b]The people who play combo sets do it so they can slightly raise the trajectory of and add some consistency to the distance of their longest irons.[/b]
[/quote]

That is precisely why I play mp fli hi 4 iron, and mp 53 cavity back 5-7 and mp 53 mb 8-pw - because i want HELP on my long and mid irons where I'm just trying to hit the greeen and i want accuracy on my scoring clubs where I'm trying to hit a precise distance.

I play off 2 and average 12+ gir, and I can see no difference between the trajectory of the cb vs the mb.. The only thing I would change is to go straight blades on the 8-pw because they look sexy.

If you can tell the difference in flight between the cbs and mbs, you're a better ball striker than I am!

On the other notes I agree, and wasn't trying to say anything regarding those points which I think are all pretty good.

'Having a mixed iron set to me is no different than having specialty wedges like Vokey/Cleveland as your Gap-SW-LW. When you transition from your set PW to your 52* Vokey, there is a difference. If you can tolerate that difference there, you can also tolerate it between the 6 & 7 irons IMO.'

great point Racineboxer. I can also tolerate the difference going from my hybrid to my long iron.

[jcb]

I just went this route with Mizuno JPX 800 in 4-7 and JPX 800 Pro in 8-G. Like the choice so far. Not that much difference between the two.

[MelloYello]

[quote name='Timbo22' timestamp='1342635852' post='5300804']
That is precisely why I play mp fli hi 4 iron, and mp 53 cavity back 5-7 and mp 53 mb 8-pw - because i want HELP on my long and mid irons where I'm just trying to hit the greeen and i want accuracy on my scoring clubs where I'm trying to hit a precise distance.

I play off 2 and average 12+ gir, and I can see no difference between the trajectory of the cb vs the mb.. The only thing I would change is to go straight blades on the 8-pw because they look sexy.

[b]If you can tell the difference in flight between the cbs and mbs, you're a better ball striker than I am![/b]

On the other notes I agree, and wasn't trying to say anything regarding those points which I think are all pretty good.

'Having a mixed iron set to me is no different than having specialty wedges like Vokey/Cleveland as your Gap-SW-LW. When you transition from your set PW to your 52* Vokey, there is a difference. If you can tolerate that difference there, you can also tolerate it between the 6 & 7 irons IMO.'

great point Racineboxer. I can also tolerate the difference going from my hybrid to my long iron.
[/quote]

I'm not saying I'm a better ball-striker than you--besides, that's such a nebulous term--but I definitely can say that my VR Split Cavity 6-iron and my VR TW Blade 6-iron were noticeably different clubs. I had a 6-iron in each and even with identical shafts (DG-S300) I wouldn't hesitate for a moment to say yes, absolutely they produced different trajectories. Think about it, the Split Cavity has a lower COG. There's also no question that I had significantly more ability to lower the trajectory through more subtle swing variations with the TW Blade than with the Split Cavity. Maybe your Mizuno's are different, I can't say, I haven't played them, but I can't imagine not noticing that different even though I'll admit it's a small variation that anyone could adjust to.

Now, I might actually contest that 50*-60* wedges are lofted to the point at which one may not see a tremendous difference in trajectory, especially if they're a high-ball hitter. If I pull my CG 54* wedge and go for a full shot at 115-120 yards it's hard to imagine a ball going higher than that even with a CB wedge. Maybe a CB wedge might, I don't know but I'd say forgiveness is virtually useless at 80-100 yards where as when we're talking about 130-180 yards technological biases towards 'high' and 'straight' can lead to more profound differences in shots' results. So your point holds true in concept I suppose about short iron blades but in reality, I think most players would benefit from CBs from 130-160 yards the same way they'd benefit from CBs at the 170-200+ yard ranges.

I'd like people to move away from blades as an ego or image thing and just decide through results and production whether they prefer blades or not. I personally prefer a blade because I always try and envision three things with every shot: a [i]distance[/i], a [i]shape[/i] and a [i]trajectory[/i]. Blades allow a player (if they're good enough) to control those things more [u]intuitively[/u] than CBs. That means I don't have to make as big a change in my swing to produce the desired changes in ball-flight with a blade. It's similar to when we hear players say '...well, I'm primarily a [i]feel[/i] player.' I think every good player becomes a feel player but it's a similar topic I'd say in the sense that some players seem to get on well with blades and have no issues hitting them. It's a match that goes beyond hitting the center of the face. Others, well, they struggle with various things and seem to find better results through CBs.

[Timbo22]

Hi Mello, sorry I think we are missing each other. I mean hitting your cb 5 iron then hitting your mb 6 iron and noticing the delta attribute d to the club construction. I don't buy that club golfers can do that.and furthermore how it would put then off the split.
The rest of your post I'm in agreement with, I'm not sure what if anything we are not on the same page about.

My only point is that putting down a split set due to trajectory differences in between a six and seven due to club build is crazy....

Hitting a cb six then a mb six as you describe, yeah I can see that. Very easy.

[FLOGMR]

Gee ....all this banter got me thinking about tomorrows game.....I am going to play my Miura Limited Forged blades PW,9,8 and my PP 9003 7,6,5 and see what happens.....I'll let you all know, but I am guessing it will be just another round with no difference in shot shape or trajectory. We'll see

[spring70]

[quote name='Thrillhouse' timestamp='1342422128' post='5283692']
[quote name='BoomerSooner214' timestamp='1342421896' post='5283686']
[quote name='Guia' timestamp='1342412503' post='5283318']
There is no benefit, just a lot physic crap. The clubs will have a different feel when switching from one to another, different trajectories, look, and weight. Muscle backs are heavier and it is extremely hard to match shaft flex point between the two.

Now we will hear from those who disagree.
[/quote]

Yup going to disagree. I think my S3 Pros transition pretty seamlessly from the 7MB to the 6CB. Ball flight is very similar and the weight doesn't feel much different. I will agree that the feel is slightly different but that doesn't bother me in the least bit. I do wish I would have done a 6 iron MB instead of starting the CBs at the 6 iron.
[/quote]

Agreed, the 5 is the best place to start with the cb.
[/quote]
+2
the Cg1 Tours I have are CB 5 and up, I think its my favorite combo set I have had.

[Jonny Cab]

If anyone is looking for a Mizuno MP-52 5-6 iron to blend into a set, please feel free to PM me.

[MelloYello]

[quote name='Timbo22' timestamp='1342642546' post='5301562']
Hi Mello, sorry I think we are missing each other. I mean hitting your cb 5 iron then hitting your mb 6 iron and noticing the delta attribute d to the club construction. I don't buy that club golfers can do that.and furthermore how it would put then off the split.
The rest of your post I'm in agreement with, I'm not sure what if anything we are not on the same page about.

[i][b]My only point is that putting down a split set due to trajectory differences in between a six and seven due to club build is crazy....[/b][/i]

Hitting a cb six then a mb six as you describe, yeah I can see that. Very easy.
[/quote]

Oh yeah, I wouldn't criticize combo sets in practice. I just wanted to state that I could see the ball-flight change with a CB versus a blade. It's nothing you can't live with, I totally agree. I guess I thought you were saying the ball-flights were identical if differently-designed clubs. I currently go from a 5 blade to a 22* hybrid to a 17* 4w. Talk about separation!

[FLOGMR]

OK.....I did it...played as described above this morning.... 73 ..(17 pars...1 bogey)... no noticeable difference going from the 8 blade to the 7 PP9003....same trajectory, same flight and same distance I would expect from the other set club for club......of course in building the 2 sets I matched the lofts, lies and swing weights.....Aerotechs in the blades and NS pro in the PP 9003.
BUT.........I am going to treat them as 2 different sets ....no more mix and match.
Cheers