Does the ball matter. (test)

[fireguyfrank58]

Well if thats the case then most range balls should be as good as most, or at least the practice balls. No way I believe its about how you hit the shot not the ball. Yes you need to be able to make decent contact, but I see a 100% difference when I play a Pro V or a TM Penta VS a E6 or a Noodle +. I switch back and forth Premium ball Shots stop on a dime and even back up a little. I play the Q star sometimes because with the exact same shot it will roll out 3-4 yards.

[Guia]

Range balls are not quality balls and have been beat to death. Practice balls are as good and you could play a quality practice ball and not see a difference.

You have drank the cool aide and became a believer.

[golfdad907]

If you can't differentiate a tour ball from a Wally World 15 pack for 12.99 rock, I'd say take up tennis. Wait, there are different tennis balls too.

Seriously, I have friends who are 15 hdcp who appreciate a tour ball, once I convinced them to try them, much longer (provided have reasonable swing speed) and around the greens no comparison. Granted, @ 15 still loses a few, but my buddy just buys at lost golf balls and pays like 75 cents for a very high quality used ball, then when loses one, doesn't b**ch and moan, just tosses down another and keeps playing.

[fireguyfrank58]

If all balls also perform the same then why do they all get different spin numbers even when a robot hits them? You can see the difference every year in Golf Digest ball test. I don't think they just make up numbers and place them falsely.

[Guia]

No they don't make up the numbers but we humans don't hit balls as consistently as a machine. I didn't say there was no difference, but there is little difference. A cheaper 2 piece ball will go further than the top quality ball, but the cheaper balls will not perform around the green as well, this is an established fact.

The difference in playability between a ball that has a spin rate of 2800 rpm and one that is 3200 cannot be felt. I did not advocate buying nitro balls (they suck), I am stating that the difference between a Bridgestone e6, Titleist Pro VI, and a Callaway Hex is very little.

[Toph84]

You can tell a huge difference between balls if you pay attention. If you want to feel a huge difference between a tour level ball take a Callaway i(z) and a Z Star, grab a 6 iron and hit 3 each after you are warmed up. Listen to the sound each ball makes off the face of an iron so you are not distracted by whatever sound your driver and woods would make because that will over shadow the ball "click" sound. Use a 6 iron because it is a long enough iron to take a good crack at it, get some distance, and still be able to "feel" and hear the ball. The i(z) will have a much more "clickier" sound and harder, "heavier" feel. The Z star will have a very clean muted clip sound off the face and feel a tad softer and likely rise a bit higher in flight. Take those same balls around the green and play your usual sit and stop shot. Both will still manage to check up nicely, with the Z star checking up a little easier and quicker. Each ball does have different characteristics to an extent, even at the tour ball level. When you get to the level that you can feel those differences you are at a level where the smallest changes can make the biggest difference. Does it matter to your weekend golfer who finds balls and plays all of them, not so much he will like whatever he shot well with that day until it "fails him" and then he finds the next best thing. So no, only in his mind and for a short time will a ball make a difference, but to someone who has such a refined sense of feel, yes, switching a ball can make a huge difference, especially the closer you get to the green.

[Redhill]

[quote name='Guia' timestamp='1344661487' post='5448678']
No they don't make up the numbers but we humans don't hit balls as consistently as a machine. I didn't say there was no difference, but there is little difference. A cheaper 2 piece ball will go further than the top quality ball, but the cheaper balls will not perform around the green as well, this is an established fact.

The difference in playability between a ball that has a spin rate of 2800 rpm and one that is 3200 cannot be felt. I did not advocate buying nitro balls (they suck), I am stating that the difference between a Bridgestone e6, Titleist Pro VI, and a Callaway Hex is very little.
[/quote]

Absolutely correcto........for me and it sounds like for you too. Not for the PGA lads, but then again, not many on this board are PGA.

[fireguyfrank58]

[quote name='Guia' timestamp='1344661487' post='5448678']
No they don't make up the numbers but we humans don't hit balls as consistently as a machine. I didn't say there was no difference, but there is little difference. A cheaper 2 piece ball will go further than the top quality ball, but the cheaper balls will not perform around the green as well, this is an established fact.

The difference in playability between a ball that has a spin rate of 2800 rpm and one that is 3200 cannot be felt. I did not advocate buying nitro balls (they suck), I am stating that the difference between a Bridgestone e6, Titleist Pro VI, and a Callaway Hex is very little.
[/quote]
Of course humans are not machines, that was for a equal test. I also agree with your second sentence 100%. While I wouldn't put the E6 with the Pro V, I also agree that the top tier balls are very close, but it has been stated on this thread all balls are pretty much the same. That its just how you hit it.

[V1XBallBuster4]

I wish people would quit posting such gay words like my handy is 3.8 and for all you 15 cappers out there, i just can't stand it when people use such gay words, especially the word wifey.

[Guia]

I wish that we would stop getting post from people that are so concerned about gays. Find another place to post your immature remarks.........Perhaps on the bathroom wall of your local gas station.

[V1XBallBuster4]

[quote name='Guia' timestamp='1344700188' post='5450000']
I wish that we would stop getting post from people that are so concerned about gays. Find another place to post your immature remarks.........Perhaps on the bathroom wall of your local gas station.
[/quote]

Listen, not one bit of my comments were directed at gays, just because you use the word gay in the correct sentence does not have anything to do with gays, it's people like you that take it the wrong way. In this use, the word does not mean "homosexual", so it can be used, for example, to refer to an inanimate object or abstract concept of which one disapproves. This usage can also refer to weakness or unmanliness. When used in this way, the extent to which it still retains connotations of homosexuality has been debated and harshly criticized. So all in all it's just how the other person comprehends it.

[Guia]

Give me a break! That is right up there with "the dog ate my homework."

[BrianL99]

[quote name='PINGWRXforeme' timestamp='1342409184' post='5283058']
I have tried to do my best to figure out what is the best ball for my game. I thought that ball (a) was the one till a round where I was lost till I swapped to ball (b). I think I'm going to put all my different sleeves in a big bucket and just grab and go. Enjoy the game and take a few notes on good and bad rounds and see if the ball matters.
[/quote]

It's interesting, that after reading all the reply posts, not a single person address the issue of "what's the best ball for me". It's all about "spin" ... "feel" ... "distance", none of which is really quantifiable, is it?

Isn't the BEST ball for everyone, the one that allows them or causes them to shoot the lowest score, consistently?

I'm convinced that no "ball testing day" or computer analysis can give you that information ... even more controversial, I don't think it matters a whit, to anyone who's handicap is above mid-single digits.

Is there a difference in performance between Premium Tour Balls & 2 piece balls? Sure, they behave differently. Will a typical player in the 5-10 handicap range shoot a better score with a Pro V1 vs a B330-RX or a Srixon Q Star? Unlikely. Will a 15 handicapper consistently shoot better scores with a Pro V1 than he will with a Wal-Mart 2 piece ball? Only in his mind.

Just my opinion, your mileage may vary.

[Redhill]

[quote name='BrianL99' timestamp='1344706189' post='5450364']
[quote name='PINGWRXforeme' timestamp='1342409184' post='5283058']
I have tried to do my best to figure out what is the best ball for my game. I thought that ball (a) was the one till a round where I was lost till I swapped to ball (b). I think I'm going to put all my different sleeves in a big bucket and just grab and go. Enjoy the game and take a few notes on good and bad rounds and see if the ball matters.
[/quote]

It's interesting, that after reading all the reply posts, not a single person address the issue of "what's the best ball for me". It's all about "spin" ... "feel" ... "distance", none of which is really quantifiable, is it?

Isn't the BEST ball for everyone, the one that allows them or causes them to shoot the lowest score, consistently?

I'm convinced that no "ball testing day" or computer analysis can give you that information ... even more controversial, I don't think it matters a whit, to anyone who's handicap is above mid-single digits.

Is there a difference in performance between Premium Tour Balls & 2 piece balls? Sure, they behave differently. Will a typical player in the 5-10 handicap range shoot a better score with a Pro V1 vs a B330-RX or a Srixon Q Star? Unlikely. Will a 15 handicapper consistently shoot better scores with a Pro V1 than he will with a Wal-Mart 2 piece ball? Only in his mind.

Just my opinion, your mileage may vary.
[/quote]

I agree and from my own playing experience using those two balls I mentioned above, the ZStar XV and the Slazenger I did not notice a difference in the SCORE. I did detect some differences in the FEEL of the two balls.......... but actually to date have shot a lower score with the Slazenger, a 68.

Everyone is different and the best test is to play a couple of rounds with different balls from different price levels and see which one you shoot the lowest scores with. If shooting the lowest score is your objective this will be a good test. Some lads are not so much concerned with the score and seek other enjoyment factors while playing and thus this kind of test may not suit their fancy. Perhaps the way a lad swings and plays his round will influence the characteristics that he is searching for in the ball he selects.

It's very possible to buy the ad hype and feel that if you are not playing brand X, you're missing out on something. In the dirt, as Hogan said, is a good place to prove out which works the best for you, in particular if you are searching for the lowest score.

[Stevehorsman]

I was given several ProV1's and ProV1x's by ny brother a while back and tried to play them..... I have a pretty slow swing speed... Driver around 80mph..... Loved the way they felt and played around the green, but struggled with them off the driver.....so I did some research and found several balls to fit my game...... Slow swing speed but fairly accurate.....I have been playing the Gamer V2 and the Srixon soft feel.....like them both a lot... I was also told to try the DT Solo.... Haven't got to that one yet....those other balls give up a bit around the green to the Pro V balls, but I have learned how to adjust my short game......and they are more than half the price.

I do think the ball makes a difference so long as you make consistent contact.....

[DevilDog]

Titleist tour rep told me that ALL their balls are within a few yards distance off the tee. The harder covered ones are designed to roll out more on firmer ground. He said the best way to determine the ball for your game is to decide what you want on and around the greens; spin, feel, etc; and go with the ball that does what you want. There is no magically longer ball being made unless it is illegal.

[Myherobobhope]

[quote name='Guia' timestamp='1344661487' post='5448678']
No they don't make up the numbers but we humans don't hit balls as consistently as a machine. I didn't say there was no difference, but there is little difference. A cheaper 2 piece ball will go further than the top quality ball, but the cheaper balls will not perform around the green as well, this is an established fact.

The difference in playability between a ball that has a spin rate of 2800 rpm and one that is 3200 cannot be felt. I did not advocate buying nitro balls (they suck), I am stating that the difference between a Bridgestone e6, Titleist Pro VI, and a Callaway Hex is very little.
[/quote]

I won't spend more than $30 on a dozen golf balls ever again... I just don't see the point.

I currently have some 2011 330S's that I bought for 28 and I spin them a little bit more, but I don't have the control to make the extra spin have value.

The only time I "NEED" more spin is on a flop shot over a bunker into a tight pin placement, and really, I shouldn't be attacking the pin on that shot anyways... I should be avoiding the BIG mistake and just put it on the green.

Unless you are getting your golf ball for free, I see no reason to pay more then $30 a dozen... if you are good enough for the extra spin/control/feel/sound to matter, you should be good enough to get them from a rep on tour.

[morebeerbettergolf]

I always laugh when the old guys in my league say none of us are good enough to tell a difference between balls. Yeah maybe if you're 60 or 70 and swing at 75 MPH. But for those of us that swing at 110+ those little difference can become big differences in a hurry. Especially off the tee.

My course has soft greens so I can make an E6 stick just fine--but I would give up a couple strokes per 9 playing a high driver spin ball the whole round versus a lower spin one, whether it be an Srixon XV or an E6. I cannot swing consistently enough with a driver to always keep a ProV1 in play off the tee, but I can with an E6, XV, Velocity, etc. So for ME, knowing the difference in how certain balls will react off the tee saves me more strokes than how one will spin on approach shots, pitches, or chips.

So to answer the question, YES the ball does matter...but it matters relatively less as swing speed diminishes IMO.

[Guia]

Morebeerbettergolf: You are making my point. When I posted Bridgestone E6, Titleist Pro, and Srixon I meant that the E6 was a middle of the pack ball because of the cost ($28.00 Dz) and performed compared favorably with the Titleist or Srixon for playability.

I am 73 and my SS is 98, and I walk the course. For the most part I can feel the difference between balls. But, when using an E6, Top Flite, Titleist, or Srixon my scores are the same. Do the balls react differently (?), a little, but very little. Not enough to spend another $20 a dozen.

[morebeerbettergolf]

I wasn't attempting to argue any of your points, I was just throwing out my observations with different balls that happened to overlap some of the ones you posted. Again, I score better with the E6 than I do a ProV1 because I can account for the E6s lack of short game spin a lot better than I can account for the ProV1s higher driver spin.

But for someone who swings 75% of the speed I do, they may only see the slightest of differences.

[Myherobobhope]

At 110-115 swing speed, I didn't notice much of a difference between RAW distance and Bridgestone B330s this weekend... maybe it's just me.

[TomWishon]

[quote name='PINGWRXforeme' timestamp='1342409184' post='5283058']
I have tried to do my best to figure out what is the best ball for my game. I thought that ball (a) was the one till a round where I was lost till I swapped to ball (b). I think I'm going to put all my different sleeves in a big bucket and just grab and go. Enjoy the game and take a few notes on good and bad rounds and see if the ball matters.
[/quote]


It really depends on your clubhead speed and the resulting ball speed generated. The majority of the ball design differences do not begin to really show themselves in flight until the ball speed reaches 130mph and higher. That means a clubhead speed of at least 85-90mph with the driver.

The reason is because that is about the ball speed required to turn the ball's flight properties from ballistic flight to aerodynamic flight. Below 130mph, the ball simply flies more like a ball you would throw - it can only sustain flight based on how fast you throw it and what angle you launched it on. Aerodynamic flight means that the ball's speed gets to a level at which some of the properties designed into the ball now begin to step in to accentuate, change or enhance the ball's flight in the air - that the ball can generate some of its own ability to keep itself flying.

And the higher the ball speed, the more these aerodynamic flight properties can show up to allow a golfer to visually see and experience shot differences from different ball designs. Hence the flight properties of balls for a long drive guy who can launch the ball at over 200 mph are much more pronounced than they are for the weekend warrior decent ball striker who launches the ball at 150mph.

On a FORUM like this one, when you ask a question about whether the ball matters, of course you're going to get all sorts of comments back to the effect of "darn right it does." That's because there is a pretty high percentage of golfers here with higher than average ball speeds which can mean they see more visible flight differences in the balls. But these golfers make their mistake by assuming if THEY experience the differences from different ball designs, then ALL golfers will notice the same things. Few know this matter about ball speed vs ballistic and aerodynamic flight in golf balls.

However, even for golfers who launch the ball at 120mph or lower, there still is an element to ball selection based on the IMPACT FEEL. Some balls feel harder when you hit them, some softer. Some golfers definitely have a preference for one ball impact feel over the other, usually just acquired over time and playing a bunch of different balls. So if a golfer does not like a soft impact feeling ball, he should not play with one - and vice versa for a harder impact feel ball. Many times our psychological preference for differences in our equipment can be so strong that if we deviate from it, our swings get worse and we play worse. Using a ball that does not feel like you want it to feel, even if you only feel that when you putt the ball, is something you don;t want to do.

On the other hand, if you detect no impact feel differences between balls (and MANY golfers do not) and if you have a driver clubhead speed below 85mph, play any ball you want because it really is not going to matter. What IS going to matter for ALL golfers, and seriously what matters MORE as the golfer has a slower clubhead speed, is being properly FIT for the clubs - especially for the lengths, lofts, lies, face angles, shaft weight, total weight, swingweight and grip size.

TOM

[Vince.Cole]

[quote name='TomWishon' timestamp='1344885796' post='5463354']
[quote name='PINGWRXforeme' timestamp='1342409184' post='5283058']
I have tried to do my best to figure out what is the best ball for my game. I thought that ball (a) was the one till a round where I was lost till I swapped to ball (b). I think I'm going to put all my different sleeves in a big bucket and just grab and go. Enjoy the game and take a few notes on good and bad rounds and see if the ball matters.
[/quote]


It really depends on your clubhead speed and the resulting ball speed generated. The majority of the ball design differences do not begin to really show themselves in flight until the ball speed reaches 130mph and higher. That means a clubhead speed of at least 85-90mph with the driver.

The reason is because that is about the ball speed required to turn the ball's flight properties from ballistic flight to aerodynamic flight. Below 130mph, the ball simply flies more like a ball you would throw - it can only sustain flight based on how fast you throw it and what angle you launched it on. Aerodynamic flight means that the ball's speed gets to a level at which some of the properties designed into the ball now begin to step in to accentuate, change or enhance the ball's flight in the air - that the ball can generate some of its own ability to keep itself flying.

And the higher the ball speed, the more these aerodynamic flight properties can show up to allow a golfer to visually see and experience shot differences from different ball designs. Hence the flight properties of balls for a long drive guy who can launch the ball at over 200 mph are much more pronounced than they are for the weekend warrior decent ball striker who launches the ball at 150mph.

On a FORUM like this one, when you ask a question about whether the ball matters, of course you're going to get all sorts of comments back to the effect of "darn right it does." That's because there is a pretty high percentage of golfers here with higher than average ball speeds which can mean they see more visible flight differences in the balls. But these golfers make their mistake by assuming if THEY experience the differences from different ball designs, then ALL golfers will notice the same things. Few know this matter about ball speed vs ballistic and aerodynamic flight in golf balls.

However, even for golfers who launch the ball at 120mph or lower, there still is an element to ball selection based on the IMPACT FEEL. Some balls feel harder when you hit them, some softer. Some golfers definitely have a preference for one ball impact feel over the other, usually just acquired over time and playing a bunch of different balls. So if a golfer does not like a soft impact feeling ball, he should not play with one - and vice versa for a harder impact feel ball. Many times our psychological preference for differences in our equipment can be so strong that if we deviate from it, our swings get worse and we play worse. Using a ball that does not feel like you want it to feel, even if you only feel that when you putt the ball, is something you don;t want to do.

On the other hand, if you detect no impact feel differences between balls (and MANY golfers do not) and if you have a driver clubhead speed below 85mph, play any ball you want because it really is not going to matter. What IS going to matter for ALL golfers, and seriously what matters MORE as the golfer has a slower clubhead speed, is being properly FIT for the clubs - especially for the lengths, lofts, lies, face angles, shaft weight, total weight, swingweight and grip size.

TOM
[/quote]

I can read your posts all day. Great info and thanks for the contribution of your knowledge Tom.

[Titleist212]

As you're all aware, golf is a mental game - you have to be confident when you address the ball. Performance wise, there probably isn't much of a difference, but I feel a whole lot more comfortable standing over a ProV1 than I do a Top Flight.

[Milesy]

[quote name='TomWishon' timestamp='1344885796' post='5463354']
[quote name='PINGWRXforeme' timestamp='1342409184' post='5283058']
I have tried to do my best to figure out what is the best ball for my game. I thought that ball (a) was the one till a round where I was lost till I swapped to ball (b). I think I'm going to put all my different sleeves in a big bucket and just grab and go. Enjoy the game and take a few notes on good and bad rounds and see if the ball matters.
[/quote]


It really depends on your clubhead speed and the resulting ball speed generated. The majority of the ball design differences do not begin to really show themselves in flight until the ball speed reaches 130mph and higher. That means a clubhead speed of at least 85-90mph with the driver.

The reason is because that is about the ball speed required to turn the ball's flight properties from ballistic flight to aerodynamic flight. Below 130mph, the ball simply flies more like a ball you would throw - it can only sustain flight based on how fast you throw it and what angle you launched it on. Aerodynamic flight means that the ball's speed gets to a level at which some of the properties designed into the ball now begin to step in to accentuate, change or enhance the ball's flight in the air - that the ball can generate some of its own ability to keep itself flying.

And the higher the ball speed, the more these aerodynamic flight properties can show up to allow a golfer to visually see and experience shot differences from different ball designs. Hence the flight properties of balls for a long drive guy who can launch the ball at over 200 mph are much more pronounced than they are for the weekend warrior decent ball striker who launches the ball at 150mph.

On a FORUM like this one, when you ask a question about whether the ball matters, of course you're going to get all sorts of comments back to the effect of "darn right it does." That's because there is a pretty high percentage of golfers here with higher than average ball speeds which can mean they see more visible flight differences in the balls. But these golfers make their mistake by assuming if THEY experience the differences from different ball designs, then ALL golfers will notice the same things. Few know this matter about ball speed vs ballistic and aerodynamic flight in golf balls.

However, even for golfers who launch the ball at 120mph or lower, there still is an element to ball selection based on the IMPACT FEEL. Some balls feel harder when you hit them, some softer. Some golfers definitely have a preference for one ball impact feel over the other, usually just acquired over time and playing a bunch of different balls. So if a golfer does not like a soft impact feeling ball, he should not play with one - and vice versa for a harder impact feel ball. Many times our psychological preference for differences in our equipment can be so strong that if we deviate from it, our swings get worse and we play worse. Using a ball that does not feel like you want it to feel, even if you only feel that when you putt the ball, is something you don;t want to do.

On the other hand, if you detect no impact feel differences between balls (and MANY golfers do not) and if you have a driver clubhead speed below 85mph, play any ball you want because it really is not going to matter. What IS going to matter for ALL golfers, and seriously what matters MORE as the golfer has a slower clubhead speed, is being properly FIT for the clubs - especially for the lengths, lofts, lies, face angles, shaft weight, total weight, swingweight and grip size.

TOM
[/quote]

You are spot on Tom. Couldn't have said it better.

[Bingo1976]

Agree with Tom.

The biggest factor for me is behaviour around the green - I'd rather give up 5 yards (consistently of course) on a tee-shot/approach shot and have a ball that can check up on the fast greens I play on. That is far more noticeable than the distance aspects of a ball - I can be off a club based on how tired I feel, where as a 2 hop fizzer is still giong to fizz

[ptjn1201]

Softer balls feel better to me on pretty much all shots but I tend to prefer lower spin balls because I'll hit two or three wild ones off the tee most rounds and the low spin balls tend to stay on the course. I hit my irons pretty high, so I tend not to go bouncing off the back of the green that often. I'm long enough for most of the courses I play regularly so distance isn't a factor at 6,500 yards or so. The only drawback is short-siding myself over a trap, but I'm learning to adjust the lobs -- I can't fly them all the way to the hole with the lower spin balls -- they just don't check up fast enough. I'm more of a bump and run chipper, so they don't really matter there.

[ej002]

It really depends on how consistent you are. For some, they will not really notice any difference between a pinnicle and the most spinniest Tiger ball out there. For some of us, we are picky about how a ball reacts around the green and can notice differences in flight and distance.

But, while one ball may be "optimum" for a low capper, I don't think playing the less optimum ball is going to "hurt" someone. There is an adjustment period, but I think a decent player can shoot the same with any ball. It is probably just preference.

[stevejason]

I just started playing again last year. I've been using Warbirds and Slazengers because I didn't see much sense in playing an expensive ball at my skill level. Today I tried some NXT's, and was very surprised. My drives were 10-15 yards longer than usual (maybe the planets lined up or something). I didn't notice much difference with my irons or chipping. I may have to try a sleeve of Pro V1's. Sometimes you just stumble into the right equipment.

[spring70]

[quote name='morebeerbettergolf' timestamp='1344878057' post='5462274']
I always laugh when the old guys in my league say none of us are good enough to tell a difference between balls. Yeah maybe if you're 60 or 70 and swing at 75 MPH. But for those of us that swing at 110+ those little difference can become big differences in a hurry. Especially off the tee.

My course has soft greens so I can make an E6 stick just fine--but I would give up a couple strokes per 9 playing a high driver spin ball the whole round versus a lower spin one, whether it be an Srixon XV or an E6. I cannot swing consistently enough with a driver to always keep a ProV1 in play off the tee, but I can with an E6, XV, Velocity, etc. So for ME, knowing the difference in how certain balls will react off the tee saves me more strokes than how one will spin on approach shots, pitches, or chips.

So to answer the question, YES the ball does matter...but it matters relatively less as swing speed diminishes IMO.
[/quote]

Are there any other low driver spin balls you can list?