Our first putter design realized

[Lazlo]

Hello, All.

My partner and I have just prototyped our first design, and would appreciate feedback from anyone gracious enough to take the time to provide. He and I are consistently amazed by the wealth of knowledge in this forum, and consider ourselves lucky to have found it.

 

[Llortamaisey]

Let me be the first to say I like it. It's different but not too radical. Do you have anymore information such as inspiration or design features?

[mozgolf]

At first take I thought you were naming it Seldum WInmore!!

[tommyrobson]

I assume those holes on the back are aesthetic?

or do they help with the putting?


I like the look

[Lazlo]

[quote name='Llortamaisey' timestamp='1342442918' post='5284246']
Let me be the first to say I like it. It's different but not too radical. Do you have anymore information such as inspiration or design features?
[/quote]First off, thanks for responding.
Regarding inspiration and design features, we were trying to accomplish a few things. We wanted to position as much weight as possible to the toe and heal without having to use weight inserts. Second, and we mean no disrespect the genius of the Anser designs, we wanted to work within similar dimensions but with unique aesthetics. Beyond that, it was just hours of Solidworks play, and milling until we had something that we were both satisfied with. We made 3 different headweights by instituting small changes to the geometry of the original design, and a shaft insert that allows us to change from one head to another.
Tim

[Lazlo]

[quote name='tommyrobson' timestamp='1342443362' post='5284286']
I assume those holes on the back are aesthetic?

or do they help with the putting?


I like the look
[/quote]Hi, Tommy.
You are correct. In the first design they we going to be weight pockets. My partner Zac, a very talented machinist, explained what happens when you try to go .75" into 1018 steel with an eight inch endmill. But we both agreed that they looked kind of cool so we just pocketed out really shallow and paint filled them.

[avgjoe]

reminds me of a rossie that's had the back chopped off... will it be face-balanced w a double-bend shaft, or did you have something else in mind?

[glenbrookchamp10]

what i really like is the back flow on the added weight behind the putter contrasting with the straight lines on the face of the putter. this is a putter that visually fits my eye..are there plans for inserts?? milled face??? shaft options??lie bend etc etc...when do you think this will be manufactured?

[MadGolfer76]

How heavy is that head?

[Lazlo]

[quote name='avgjoe' timestamp='1342452952' post='5285240']
reminds me of a rossie that's had the back chopped off... will it be face-balanced w a double-bend shaft, or did you have something else in mind?
[/quote]How's it going.
Yes on the double bend, but it's not faced balanced. Toe hang sits at about 4:00.
Tim

[Lazlo]

[quote name='MadGolfer76' timestamp='1342455908' post='5285626']
How heavy is that head?
[/quote]
We made a few different weights, but the one you're looking at is 344g.

[hebron1427]

it strikes me as a Zing meets Anser sort of style. you've definitely got some high toe in there--don't get too crazy with that. i think cameron has had to pair it back on that design element in the most recent series. 344 is a nice weight, but how (or, from where) will you remove weight for custom grinding and accommodating various hosel styles (i.e., PN, my favorite)? a PN adds about 20g, and 365 is a good bit on the high side for most.

i would ditch the weight pockets with paint fill. it's unique, but doesn't seem to fit with the flowing lines of the rest of hte design. i'm curious about the box toe--at setup, i would htink it would appear to hang way out past the toe weight pad, the way you've got it right now. is that a conscious design element? i would think it would encourage a gate stroke. also, have you run the MOI numbers on this, since you said you were playing around in CAD?

also--personal favor--make some without sight lines

[Lazlo]

[quote name='hebron1427' timestamp='1342623112' post='5299402']
it strikes me as a Zing meets Anser sort of style. you've definitely got some high toe in there--don't get too crazy with that. i think cameron has had to pair it back on that design element in the most recent series. 344 is a nice weight, but how (or, from where) will you remove weight for custom grinding and accommodating various hosel styles (i.e., PN, my favorite)? a PN adds about 20g, and 365 is a good bit on the high side for most.

i would ditch the weight pockets with paint fill. it's unique, but doesn't seem to fit with the flowing lines of the rest of hte design. i'm curious about the box toe--at setup, i would htink it would appear to hang way out past the toe weight pad, the way you've got it right now. is that a conscious design element? i would think it would encourage a gate stroke. also, have you run the MOI numbers on this, since you said you were playing around in CAD?

also--personal favor--make some without sight lines
[/quote]How's it going, Hebron.
Losing weight won't be an issue. We could pocket underneath both bumpers, shave a few thou off the topline, etc. The toe is something that I think we may redesign, angling it down rather than having the steep drop-off. The topline is actually flat, so any rise in toe is an illusion.
Thanks for taking the time to provide input. It really does help with the process.
Tim

[hebron1427]

[quote name='Lazlo' timestamp='1342626489' post='5299732']
[quote name='hebron1427' timestamp='1342623112' post='5299402']
it strikes me as a Zing meets Anser sort of style. you've definitely got some high toe in there--don't get too crazy with that. i think cameron has had to pair it back on that design element in the most recent series. 344 is a nice weight, but how (or, from where) will you remove weight for custom grinding and accommodating various hosel styles (i.e., PN, my favorite)? a PN adds about 20g, and 365 is a good bit on the high side for most.

i would ditch the weight pockets with paint fill. it's unique, but doesn't seem to fit with the flowing lines of the rest of hte design. i'm curious about the box toe--at setup, i would htink it would appear to hang way out past the toe weight pad, the way you've got it right now. is that a conscious design element? i would think it would encourage a gate stroke. also, have you run the MOI numbers on this, since you said you were playing around in CAD?

also--personal favor--make some without sight lines
[/quote]How's it going, Hebron.
Losing weight won't be an issue. We could pocket underneath both bumpers, shave a few thou off the topline, etc. The toe is something that I think we may redesign, angling it down rather than having the steep drop-off. The topline is actually flat, so any rise in toe is an illusion.
Thanks for taking the time to provide input. It really does help with the process.
Tim
[/quote]

not a problem, and happy to discuss as much as you have time for.

different neck setups will change hte balance, so you need to have a way to account for this. i like the idea of redesigning the toe. other snub toe designs have worked (TP mills, cameron circa #3 just to name the first two that come to mind), but i tend to like a more visually aligned look, which the angled toe will get you.

my 2 cents here, you want to make your putter look the part of a scotty cameron or whatever else. looking the part means making it not look cheap. i'm not saying it currently does, but i think the weight pockets might give it that questionable look. then again, someone could love them. from a business perspective, i'd advise you to go ahead and develop other offerings. while this is a neat style, you're not going to stay in business if you dont sell what most people like as well. although cameron is donig well with teh golo, i'll bet you dollars to donuts he sells more newports and newport 2s than all of the others combined.

as another business pointer, you might want to consider some intellectual property protection. PM me if you'd like to about that further.

[Lazlo]

[quote name='hebron1427' timestamp='1342644935' post='5301858']
[quote name='Lazlo' timestamp='1342626489' post='5299732']
[quote name='hebron1427' timestamp='1342623112' post='5299402']
it strikes me as a Zing meets Anser sort of style. you've definitely got some high toe in there--don't get too crazy with that. i think cameron has had to pair it back on that design element in the most recent series. 344 is a nice weight, but how (or, from where) will you remove weight for custom grinding and accommodating various hosel styles (i.e., PN, my favorite)? a PN adds about 20g, and 365 is a good bit on the high side for most.

i would ditch the weight pockets with paint fill. it's unique, but doesn't seem to fit with the flowing lines of the rest of hte design. i'm curious about the box toe--at setup, i would htink it would appear to hang way out past the toe weight pad, the way you've got it right now. is that a conscious design element? i would think it would encourage a gate stroke. also, have you run the MOI numbers on this, since you said you were playing around in CAD?

also--personal favor--make some without sight lines
[/quote]How's it going, Hebron.
Losing weight won't be an issue. We could pocket underneath both bumpers, shave a few thou off the topline, etc. The toe is something that I think we may redesign, angling it down rather than having the steep drop-off. The topline is actually flat, so any rise in toe is an illusion.
Thanks for taking the time to provide input. It really does help with the process.
Tim
[/quote]

not a problem, and happy to discuss as much as you have time for.

different neck setups will change hte balance, so you need to have a way to account for this. i like the idea of redesigning the toe. other snub toe designs have worked (TP mills, cameron circa #3 just to name the first two that come to mind), but i tend to like a more visually aligned look, which the angled toe will get you.

my 2 cents here, you want to make your putter look the part of a scotty cameron or whatever else. looking the part means making it not look cheap. i'm not saying it currently does, but i think the weight pockets might give it that questionable look. then again, someone could love them. from a business perspective, i'd advise you to go ahead and develop other offerings. while this is a neat style, you're not going to stay in business if you dont sell what most people like as well. although cameron is donig well with teh golo, i'll bet you dollars to donuts he sells more newports and newport 2s than all of the others combined.

as another business pointer, you might want to consider some intellectual property protection. PM me if you'd like to about that further.
[/quote]Again, thank you for the dialogue.
We are considering all feedback, including your perspective on the aesthetic pockets. So far it has been two days since we've posted, and we've compiled all of the different suggestions and their relative frequency. Regarding the balance we do all of our design work through Solidworks, so provided we don't disregard the info provided in the program we can continue to offer the same balance profile putter-to-putter regardless of the hosel type.
Regarding conforming to a particular design or aesthetic archetype, we respectfully disagree. From a branding perspective it is impossible to differentiate by following. I understand, and respect that Scotty Cameron's version of the Anser has been very successful, as have other massive companies whose design successes have succeeded by not being original, but by massive marketing budgets. However, we are not that fortunate, and are choosing to have a unique design, with a particular design continuity between models.
To address the point of other offerings, we currently have two other blade/mid-mallet families in development, as well as three mallet designs that we're proving out. What we've posted is the first example of what will hopefully be a robust product line launched in Spring.
I hope I addressed each point, but if I glossed over anything please let me know.
Again, thank you very much for your feedback. It will definitely drive design at some level.
Tim

[Texan4Tide]

I think your head shape could really shine as a center shaft. Put the CG dead center and center shaft that baby and I think it would be really slick. Somewhere between the SC Studio 5 and a Zing. To me that would be something really unique.

[Lazlo]

[quote name='Texan4Tide' timestamp='1342691817' post='5306724']
I think your head shape could really shine as a center shaft. Put the CG dead center and center shaft that baby and I think it would be really slick. Somewhere between the SC Studio 5 and a Zing. To me that would be something really unique.
[/quote]Center shaft is definitely in the works.

[jokerusn]

For your first realized design, I think you've hit it out of the park! Great job! It's been a LONG time since I've immediately liked a putter design from first sight. Like others have said, you seem to have merged Zing, Anser and Rossie style heads (my 3 favorite, btw) into one and it works aesthetically. The only things I would change would be to make the toe more of an angle instead of vertical and to find some way to eliminate the holes in the back or maybe move the holes to the sole.

[Lazlo]

[quote name='jokerusn' timestamp='1342707385' post='5308068']
For your first realized design, I think you've hit it out of the park! Great job! It's been a LONG time since I've immediately liked a putter design from first sight. Like others have said, you seem to have merged Zing, Anser and Rossie style heads (my 3 favorite, btw) into one and it works aesthetically. The only things I would change would be to make the toe more of an angle instead of vertical and to find some way to eliminate the holes in the back or maybe move the holes to the sole.
[/quote]Hey there,
We're about 99% sure that we're going to change the toe to angle down rather than drop at 90 degrees. The holes are actually just shallow recesses that are purely aesthetic. There is an engraving plate which is intended for the cavity that is presently being engraved with our logo. Once it's in we'll decide on either leaving them in or removing them. We're really glad you like the overall look, and appreciate the support.
Tim

[Huntster]

[quote name='Lazlo' timestamp='1342654830' post='5303576']

Regarding conforming to a particular design or aesthetic archetype, we respectfully disagree. From a branding perspective it is impossible to differentiate by following. I understand, and respect that Scotty Cameron's version of the Anser has been very successful, as have other massive companies whose design successes have succeeded by not being original, but by massive marketing budgets. However, we are not that fortunate, and are choosing to have a unique design, with a particular design continuity between models.
To address the point of other offerings, we currently have two other blade/mid-mallet families in development, as well as three mallet designs that we're proving out. What we've posted is the first example of what will hopefully be a robust product line launched in Spring.
I hope I addressed each point, but if I glossed over anything please let me know.
Again, thank you very much for your feedback. It will definitely drive design at some level.
Tim
[/quote]

I think it is great that you guys want to make a name for yourselves with your own designs rather than following the crowd. I think it is a great blend of familiar enough not to turn people off but with enough twist to capture those people who want something a little different.

[nacho]

Cool

[jokerusn]

[quote name='Lazlo' timestamp='1342715082' post='5309038']
[quote name='jokerusn' timestamp='1342707385' post='5308068']
For your first realized design, I think you've hit it out of the park! Great job! It's been a LONG time since I've immediately liked a putter design from first sight. Like others have said, you seem to have merged Zing, Anser and Rossie style heads (my 3 favorite, btw) into one and it works aesthetically. The only things I would change would be to make the toe more of an angle instead of vertical and to find some way to eliminate the holes in the back or maybe move the holes to the sole.
[/quote]Hey there,
We're about 99% sure that we're going to change the toe to angle down rather than drop at 90 degrees. The holes are actually just shallow recesses that are purely aesthetic. There is an engraving plate which is intended for the cavity that is presently being engraved with our logo. Once it's in we'll decide on either leaving them in or removing them. We're really glad you like the overall look, and appreciate the support.
Tim
[/quote]

Ah, I see what you mean about them being only recesses. In that case, I think expanding them along the bumper might look cool. Regardless, I'm looking forward to seeing how it turns out.

[hebron1427]

Again, thank you for the dialogue.

We are considering all feedback, including your perspective on the aesthetic pockets. So far it has been two days since we've posted, and we've compiled all of the different suggestions and their relative frequency. Regarding the balance we do all of our design work through Solidworks, so provided we don't disregard the info provided in the program we can continue to offer the same balance profile putter-to-putter regardless of the hosel type.

Regarding conforming to a particular design or aesthetic archetype, we respectfully disagree. From a branding perspective it is impossible to differentiate by following. I understand, and respect that Scotty Cameron's version of the Anser has been very successful, as have other massive companies whose design successes have succeeded by not being original, but by massive marketing budgets. However, we are not that fortunate, and are choosing to have a unique design, with a particular design continuity between models.

To address the point of other offerings, we currently have two other blade/mid-mallet families in development, as well as three mallet designs that we're proving out. What we've posted is the first example of what will hopefully be a robust product line launched in Spring.

I hope I addressed each point, but if I glossed over anything please let me know.

Again, thank you very much for your feedback. It will definitely drive design at some level.

Tim

 

certainly you can do whatever you like with your own business. but i do know a few people in this business that have tried the same path you're planning to take. none of them succeeded without a line that could be sold en masse. it's great to think that you're going to change the world with your cool design, but there are people that just don't want to even try something different, much less buy it, no matter how great it is. if what they've done up to now works, they stick with it. especially in the game of golf, where comfort is such an important aspect of whether you succeed.

 

if i were in your shoes (which clearly i'm not), i would at least have an offering that appeals to the traditionalist. the purpose of owning a business is to make money. if you make enough, you'll have that marketing budget that you're talking about. you don't want to differentiate yourself out of the business of selling golf clubs i presume.

 

also, understand--everything has been done at some point, so when you are trying to "differentiate," remember that there are only so many ways to make golf clubs. you're probably not the first to think up this one. eg...............

 

 

all just friendly advice. take from it what you will.

[Lazlo]

Again, thank you for the dialogue.

We are considering all feedback, including your perspective on the aesthetic pockets. So far it has been two days since we've posted, and we've compiled all of the different suggestions and their relative frequency. Regarding the balance we do all of our design work through Solidworks, so provided we don't disregard the info provided in the program we can continue to offer the same balance profile putter-to-putter regardless of the hosel type.

Regarding conforming to a particular design or aesthetic archetype, we respectfully disagree. From a branding perspective it is impossible to differentiate by following. I understand, and respect that Scotty Cameron's version of the Anser has been very successful, as have other massive companies whose design successes have succeeded by not being original, but by massive marketing budgets. However, we are not that fortunate, and are choosing to have a unique design, with a particular design continuity between models.

To address the point of other offerings, we currently have two other blade/mid-mallet families in development, as well as three mallet designs that we're proving out. What we've posted is the first example of what will hopefully be a robust product line launched in Spring.

I hope I addressed each point, but if I glossed over anything please let me know.

Again, thank you very much for your feedback. It will definitely drive design at some level.

Tim

 

certainly you can do whatever you like with your own business. but i do know a few people in this business that have tried the same path you're planning to take. none of them succeeded without a line that could be sold en masse. it's great to think that you're going to change the world with your cool design, but there are people that just don't want to even try something different, much less buy it, no matter how great it is. if what they've done up to now works, they stick with it. especially in the game of golf, where comfort is such an important aspect of whether you succeed.

 

if i were in your shoes (which clearly i'm not), i would at least have an offering that appeals to the traditionalist. the purpose of owning a business is to make money. if you make enough, you'll have that marketing budget that you're talking about. you don't want to differentiate yourself out of the business of selling golf clubs i presume.

 

also, understand--everything has been done at some point, so when you are trying to "differentiate," remember that there are only so many ways to make golf clubs. you're probably not the first to think up this one. eg...............

 

 

all just friendly advice. take from it what you will.

Thank you, Hebron.

[Dscvrr St Louis]

I think it is very solid...love the shape and the look...for what it is worth, I putt with a 365 head weight and it has changed my game from 4-5 ft and in...just rock solid. keep up the good work....and if you want any performance tests on a trial basis..I am sure you will find more than enough on here to help you out!!

[Lazlo]

[quote name='Dscvrr St Louis' timestamp='1342804189' post='5316340']
I think it is very solid...love the shape and the look...for what it is worth, I putt with a 365 head weight and it has changed my game from 4-5 ft and in...just rock solid. keep up the good work....and if you want any performance tests on a trial basis..I am sure you will find more than enough on here to help you out!!
[/quote]Hey, there.
I'm glad you dig the look. We've had a ton of interest in terms of trialing, and we will certainly be utilizing this interest to the best of our abilities. We've been working with various people, challenging their preconceived notions as to what their optimum weight was, and in most cases we seen greater consistency in weights that differed from what they considered ideal. Just goes to show you that the putter should choose you, and not the other way around.
Again, thanks for your interest.

[Lazlo]

[attachment=1295960:engraving plate.jpg]Hello, All.
Thanks once again for all of your feedback. We've recently been toying around with a laser engraved nameplate for the cavity. Please let us know what you think.

[glenbrookchamp10]

Finishes it off nicely. Any chance of different color fills?

[Lazlo]

[quote name='glenbrookchamp10' timestamp='1344560776' post='5440948']
Finishes it off nicely. Any chance of different color fills?
[/quote]It will all depend on how we choose to mill or laser in the emblem. If we decide to mill it will be paint filled. If we laser it will look just like the image shown. The only variable will be the plate material (brass, black anodized aluminum, polished aluminum, etc.). We also may look at putting the emblem on the face, and the name on the cavity. The possibilities are virtually endless..
Tim

[Nick-A]

[size=5][sub]Looks a bit weird with the front plate being so straightly lined almist rectangular looking, while the back weight has more to a flow on it (prefer the latter by far)[/sub][/size]