Get your arm swing and pivot in sync

[peacedog]

Was working on this and ball flight was low. Too low. Wondering what I am doing wrong.

[iteachgolf]

Ball flight will be low during the drill. When you get to a full swing, ball flight will get a lot higher. This is meant to increase awareness and get things in sync. Not meant to play golf like that.

[aimleft]

After working on this feel at home, i went and hit a few balls at lunch. I could really feel the deference and was hitting the ball really well. I felt like I was playing everything about 1 club short, but didn't sweat it as know that i need to get synced up in order to take full advantage of the speed that i can create. However, when i got to my driver, things went south quickly. every shot was a weak,high launching pull cut. I could not for the life of me get the FEEL that I had with wedges and mid irons.


Is this something that will take much more work to get worked out with the driver? I might be hitting long irons off the tee tomorrow

[CSagan]

[quote name='aimleft' timestamp='1365798414' post='6822569']
After working on this feel at home, i went and hit a few balls at lunch. I could really feel the deference and was hitting the ball really well. I felt like I was playing everything about 1 club short, but didn't sweat it as know that i need to get synced up in order to take full advantage of the speed that i can create. However, when i got to my driver, things went south quickly. every shot was a weak,high launching pull cut. I could not for the life of me get the FEEL that I had with wedges and mid irons.


Is this something that will take much more work to get worked out with the driver? I might be hitting long irons off the tee tomorrow
[/quote]

I get that same miss when my arms are too slow. Could be same with you but there could also be a 1000 other things.

[aimleft]

[quote name='CSagan' timestamp='1365740682' post='6816855']
[quote name='aimleft' timestamp='1365737751' post='6816625']
I beed working on the drill/feeling and I am suprised to find how mush you have to fight to get to the hip high position (with wrist set) in the follow through. It gets really hard to keep things really synched up with long irons and woods. Looking foward to a DC vid to see if I have the correct interpretation.
[/quote]

You're not supposed to hold the wrist set to hip high on the follow through. Just swing your arms back and through while keeping them straight and set the wrist on the backswing.
[/quote]

By wrist set at hip high in the follow through, I was referring to the fact that if the lead arm bends to early, you want get to the position shown in the OP in the follow through. I initially thought that this drill/feel was only useful for the backswing, but I now realize that it is also important to stay synced up through impact and into the follow through.

[iteachgolf]

Again to hit longer clubs swing will have to get longer. The other thing is arms have to stay in front of you through and post impact. You (left-handed) don't want your arms to be on the right side of your body in the followthrough when doing drill. This will likely feel very in to out if you have the correct amount of tilt, but you will turn and path will stay neutral.

[JamesBurg]

A drill that forces the body to respond to an arm swing by keeping the arms straight in a short swing: How do you get that to a consistent full swing with all clubs? How do you get that to consistent ball striking on the golf course? I don't think there are good answers to those questions. Even if there is, I think it would be a very high maintenance way to swing a golf club.

I will stick with my body powered swing. It is very consistent and very low maintenance.

Whatever swing any of you choose to pursue, I hope you do well.

[butch33611]

I've been working on this and WOW!!! After I got to hitting the ball with a good snap I started working on it with a longer swing. Tell me if this makes sence please. Im a mechanical player, I need to have triggers so I know Im in the right spot so I can reproduce my swing. So here's what I tried.

As I take the club back with the right wrist bending back slowly the body follows that same speed keeping me connected. When the club stops moving the body stops and when I feel my left thumb is pointing straight up or slightly back thats my trigger to start the downswing. The ball is snapping off the club almost every time and im hitting the club face pretty much center every time. It really feels good and fairly simple to reproduce.

Is this the general idea???

Thanks, Butch

[iteachgolf]

[quote name='JamesBurg' timestamp='1365802902' post='6823191']
A drill that forces the body to respond to an arm swing by keeping the arms straight in a short swing: How do you get that to a consistent full swing with all clubs? How do you get that to consistent ball striking on the golf course? I don't think there are good answers to those questions. Even if there is, I think it would be a very high maintenance way to swing a golf club.

I will stick with my body powered swing. It is very consistent and very low maintenance.

Whatever swing any of you choose to pursue, I hope you do well.
[/quote]
Please explain how its low maintenance or one is better than the other

Ill put it this way... If arms stay in front of you and your goal is to keep them in front of you coming down, your pivot will turn as fast as it can without having the arms fall behind. If you try to use your pivot to control everything, what happens if arms get slow? They'll get way behind your turn and lead to issues. Or the other way same thing. Pivot can only turn as fast as arms swing. First step is getting it in sync with a small swing. Then you make a longer swing, keeping right elbow in front of you (it will bend and has no choice but to bend) on the backswing and downswing. In followthrough dont let your left arm get behind your shirt inseam. All you have to do is lengthen swing and right elbow will fold a lil bit and club will set. In followthrough left elbow will eventually fold and club will reset. Your hands and arms are your only connection to the club.

If you pivot good your arms don't HAVE to work even close to correctly. You could have a great pivot and your arms wouldn't have to work up at all in relation to your pivot and would basically flail around. What's causing them to work correctly automatically? ill answer for you, nada. Guess what your arms are connected to your shoulders. Move arms correctly and your shoulders have to respond. Momementum is fairly large and it will create a lot of dynamics when combined with natural joint limitations.

How bout this. You film me a swing where you swing your arms at any speed even remotely close to a normal swing while keeping your hands in front of your chest, and do so without turning and having a dynamic pivot. If you can do this ill Paypal you $100.

Doesn't get any simpler than that. I rather when I work on one thing other things have no choice than to happen instead of working on one thing that MAY cause something else to happen.

[iteachgolf]

[quote name='butch33611' timestamp='1365803668' post='6823293']
I've been working on this and WOW!!! After I got to hitting the ball with a good snap I started working on it with a longer swing. Tell me if this makes sence please. Im a mechanical player, I need to have triggers so I know Im in the right spot so I can reproduce my swing. So here's what I tried.

As I take the club back with the right wrist bending back slowly the body follows that same speed keeping me connected. When the club stops moving the body stops and when I feel my left thumb is pointing straight up or slightly back thats my trigger to start the downswing. The ball is snapping off the club almost every time and im hitting the club face pretty much center every time. It really feels good and fairly simple to reproduce.

Is this the general idea???

Thanks, Butch
[/quote]

Yep. Will feel like club, arms, and body are all swinging at the same rpms.

[JamesBurg]

[quote name='iteachgolf' timestamp='1365804331' post='6823383']
[quote name='JamesBurg' timestamp='1365802902' post='6823191']
A drill that forces the body to respond to an arm swing by keeping the arms straight in a short swing: How do you get that to a consistent full swing with all clubs? How do you get that to consistent ball striking on the golf course? I don't think there are good answers to those questions. Even if there is, I think it would be a very high maintenance way to swing a golf club.

I will stick with my body powered swing. It is very consistent and very low maintenance.

Whatever swing any of you choose to pursue, I hope you do well.
[/quote]
Please explain how its low maintenance or one is better than the other

Ill put it this way... If arms stay in front of you and your goal is to keep them in front of you coming down, your pivot will turn as fast as it can without having the arms fall behind. If you try to use your pivot to control everything, what happens if arms get slow? They'll get way behind your turn and lead to issues. Or the other way same thing. Pivot can only turn as fast as arms swing. First step is getting it in sync with a small swing. Then you make a longer swing, keeping right elbow in front of you (it will bend and has no choice but to bend) on the backswing and downswing. In followthrough dont let your left arm get behind your shirt inseam. All you have to do is lengthen swing and right elbow will fold a lil bit and club will set. In followthrough left elbow will eventually fold and club will reset. Your hands and arms are your only connection to the club.

If you pivot good your arms don't HAVE to work even close to correctly. You could have a great pivot and your arms wouldn't have to work up at all in relation to your pivot and would basically flail around. What's causing them to work correctly automatically? ill answer for you, nada. Guess what your arms are connected to your shoulders. Move arms correctly and your shoulders have to respond. Momementum is fairly large and it will create a lot of dynamics when combined with natural joint limitations.

How bout this. You film me a swing where you swing your arms at any speed even remotely close to a normal swing while keeping your hands in front of your chest, and do so without turning and having a dynamic pivot. If you can do this ill Paypal you $100.

Doesn't get any simpler than that. I rather when I work on one thing other things have no choice than to happen instead of working on one thing that MAY cause something else to happen.
[/quote]

Sorry, but I do not do any arm swinging. My lead arm maintains the extension, and my forearm muscles control my hands in my release. I do the swinging with my lead shoulder, which makes my lower body movements subconscious. Since my arms do none of the swinging, no synchronization is required between my arms and body. That's why it's so low maintenance and consistent. I practice my full swing very little. Most of my practice time is spent on distance control in my short game.

If you have any interest in the details, the instruction is THE GOLF SWING AND ITS MASTER KEY EXPLAINED, by Noel Thomas.
I, and the 3 guys I play with have been playing to scratch with this for 8 years now.

[iteachgolf]

Trust me you're swinging your arms. That's a long non answer. What do you mean by your lead arm maintains the extension? Does your left arm move across your body in the backswing, and if so how much? Do your arms move up at all in your swing?

Do you know what a golfswing would look like if you didn't swing your arms? How much speed could you produce with only a pivot and no actual arm swinging (give you a hint very very little)?

Do you have any video of you hitting shots, especially 50 yard wedges, with no arm swing?

[J13]

i"m fascinated to learn how I can hit a golf ball without swinging my arms. Perhaps your trying to say your left shoulder is just a trigger.
In any case I'd love to see a vid

[butch33611]

[quote name='J13' timestamp='1365851210' post='6827985']
i"m fascinated to learn how I can hit a golf ball without swinging my arms. Perhaps your trying to say your left shoulder is just a trigger.
In any case I'd love to see a vid
[/quote] +1

[sonofagunn]

I think he just means he doesn't think about the arms. Every swing has hips, knees, shoulders, arms, and hands moving. But judging from years of reading people's accounts of their own swings makes in painfully clear that most people focus on just one of those parts and let the rest happen naturally.

[DannyG]

[quote name='iteachgolf' timestamp='1365798951' post='6822633']
Again to hit longer clubs swing will have to get longer.
[/quote]

Dan, would you clarify what you mean by "swing will have to get longer"?

[iteachgolf]

How can I get more clear? The drill is a hip to chest high swing. It's a drill. It's not meant to be used as a way to hit full drivers and play golf.

[FFDan]

holy crap...I hardly ever post here, but this drill is awesome and eye opening. I've been trying for years to keep my right arm/hand bent and all that has caused is a stall/flip action and more times than not my right arm would be straight at impact. Doing this drill..I feel for the first time my body turning through impact. Ball striking is much more crisp and for the first time in years I hit a bucket of balls and didn't hit any crazy hooks. Thanks Dan...

[CrisPy3]

Hey Dan,
2 quick questions hopefully. First really enjoy and appreciate the time you give to the site.
Second, I've been working on the straight right arm drill and it's really helped me get width and also keeps the arms in front. In the article you mention to bend AND c0ck the right wrist immediately and allow the pivot to bring everything thru on the DS. I'm wondering if this is the case with full swings as well? It sounds from your previous post this is suppose to happen more gradually when not doing the drill.
Last question, what's the best thought for getting the shaft on plane in the BS? I've always thought of turning the inside of my right forearm towards the sky (not straight up mind you) but that thought is getting a tad distorted with the 'straight arms drill' and I feel like I don't know what's happening when I'm taking longer swings. I figure one can still make swings with a straighter right arm and turn the club on plane, just would like your thoughts on that.
Thanks a million.

Chris

[iteachgolf]

Won't have to try to turn anything. When right arm folds, if its in front of you, this will rotate left arm. Right wrist bend isn't immediate. It's gradual and the swinging of the arms while keeping them in front of you gets pivot going. As swing gets longer right arm will automatically fold and arms will keep working up as the folding of right arm moves the left arm across your chest slightly. Reverse happens in followthrough.

[InaSilentWay]

Here is an article by Zach Johnson in Golf Digest, where he says he gets the body and arms in synch by having the arms lead the body. Otherwise, if the body leads, the arms lag behind out of synch and one ends up cutting across the ball. He also states that amateurs open their shoulders too fast
http://www.golfdigest.com/golf-instruction/2012-01/zach-johnson-downswing-drills

Iteach, is this consistent with what you are talking about? Trying to separate arm movement from shoulder movement is very difficult for me.

[iteachgolf]

It's very similar.

[CrisPy3]

Thanks Dan

[JamesBurg]

I did not say that my arms do not swing. I said that my arms do not do any of the swinging. I would hope that anyone reading and posting here would have good enough reading comprehension to understand the difference.

[iteachgolf]

"I do not do any arm swinging."

Where I come from that means that I'm not swinging my arms. My reading comprehension may not be as good as yours. Keep in mind you came into a thread meant to help people and decided to piss on someone's ideas saying how it is very high maintenance. You then said how your way is better and lower maintenance with zero actual supporting evidence. When asked how its lower maintenance you provide zero evidence of why its actually lower maintenance. And then you are condescending to multiple people after you're the one who decided to post negatively in a post that is meant to help. If you don't think it'd help you and have zero interest in even having a discussion or trying it, then move on and simply don't post in the thread.

Didn't care to respond to how if you keep arms extended and in front of you the shoulders MUST turn. Once arms get above chest high your trailing arm MUST bend. As you start down momentum will cause club to lag behind in transition. The INTENTION of keeping both arms extended combined with momentum and the body's limitations will cause the pivot to react dynamically and rotate. The faster the arms swing the more momentum you will generate and the more dynamic the pivot will become. I'd rather teach and do things where when you do one thing other things MUST happen than work on things that MAY cause other things to happen.

Again if you can swing your arms at any speed while keeping them in front of you and extended and do so without pivoting dynamically I'll give you $100

[Mimir]

[quote name='JamesBurg' timestamp='1365889223' post='6833895']
I did not say that my arms do not swing. I said that my arms do not do any of the swinging. I would hope that anyone reading and posting here would have good enough reading comprehension to understand the difference.
[/quote]Although you still make very little sense in your latest post, at least you didn't mention your mentor and [color=#282828]his theory in it....I suppose that is progress. A lot of people (including me) rate DC and his advice, so if they make a post to ask him (or anyone else) a question. If you then, turn up and talk down on the information given in the thread directed at him (or others) [u]without[/u] being able to back it up, is in my opinion rather rude. There is a way of advising without advertising....maybe keep your [/color][color=#282828]infomercial in threads created by you. [/color][color=#282828]Just my opinon James.[/color]

[JamesBurg]

[quote name='iteachgolf' timestamp='1365891049' post='6834181']
"I do not do any arm swinging."

Where I come from that means that I'm not swinging my arms. My reading comprehension may not be as good as yours. Keep in mind you came into a thread meant to help people and decided to piss on someone's ideas saying how it is very high maintenance. You then said how your way is better and lower maintenance with zero actual supporting evidence. When asked how its lower maintenance you provide zero evidence of why its actually lower maintenance. And then you are condescending to multiple people after you're the one who decided to post negatively in a post that is meant to help. If you don't think it'd help you and have zero interest in even having a discussion or trying it, then move on and simply don't post in the thread.

Didn't care to respond to how if you keep arms extended and in front of you the shoulders MUST turn. Once arms get above chest high your trailing arm MUST bend. As you start down momentum will cause club to lag behind in transition. The INTENTION of keeping both arms extended combined with momentum and the body's limitations will cause the pivot to react dynamically and rotate. The faster the arms swing the more momentum you will generate and the more dynamic the pivot will become. I'd rather teach and do things where when you do one thing other things MUST happen than work on things that MAY cause other things to happen.

Again if you can swing your arms at any speed while keeping them in front of you and extended and do so without pivoting dynamically I'll give you $100
[/quote]

Please accept my apology. You are right. I should not have posted in this thread at all. You started the thread and you have a right to teach the swing any way you like.

[scratch72]

[i]Dan, will the wrist c0ck need to be faster with longer irons and woods to get fully set because they are much longer than short irons?[/i]

[iteachgolf]

Wrist load gradually in the full swing. Shouldn't be forced. Again this is a drill. Not meant to be a way to play golf. If you do the drill with a long iron or wood it will go very low due to there not being enough speed or spin to generate enough lift. You can do the drill with a 8 iron. Then gradually make swing longer and then go with longer clubs. The goal is to get a feel for arms and body moving at the same rpm. It's a motion drill, not a position. Don't over think it or try to do everything absolutely perfect. If you filmed yourself doing it I can almost promise your right arm will bend going back and swing will be longer than you feel it is. It's not a bad thing and its expected, keep actual goal in mind, arms and body moving together in sync.

[scratch72]

Dan is their a thread that I can learn more about your swing ideas?