The Arm Swing Illusion / Jim Waldron's Swing Philosophy

[Jim Waldron]

[quote name='PingG10guy' timestamp='1367196873' post='6934263']
Glad to see people talking about the grind. A light bulb on is the start but it means you have to dedicate yourself to fixing the issue or root cause that's holding you back. Armswing illusion is hardest for me because I'm having difficulty training myself to use more triceps in the right arm through the motion. that's what keeps the elbow more in front and allows the downswing action to be more automatic in my experience. Its on or off. If the wrong muscles are on then you'll make the same mistakes
[/quote]

Yep, the right arm action is the more important of the two on the backswing, for sure. Triceps extensor action is key, and I want my students to start their swing with the right elbow very slightly bent so that they have "room" to push/stretch it out straight at the very beginning of takeaway, with the clubhead hovering very slightly off the ground, touching the tips of the grass just barely. The butt end will then move down about a quarter to a half inch and then the butt end will move out on the 45 degree angle about 8-12 inches for most golfers by end of takeway. It is not a big motion. You can really see this in Rory's takeaway from down the line view, and I think Sergio also does this.

[Jim Waldron]

[quote name='The Pearl' timestamp='1367197035' post='6934295']
Jim, I am sorry if you covered this earlier, I probably missed it...could you give a quick explanation of the V motion?
[/quote]

The arms make a V shaped motion ( a bit more toward a slight U motion on downswing part) in front of your rotating chest. You push your arms away from your chest, and never in toward your chest or around your chest, and you do that pushaway while you rotate your chest. The arms never ever get behind your chest - well, maybe a little at the Finish, but only there, after you release your Arm Pressures so that your Triangle structure becomes looser.

If average height and flexibility, the hands are only in line with top of sternum in height, but opposite the right shoulder area, in the drill where you do not rotate, just do the arm pushaway. In a real golf swing with a Pivot, the Pivot raises the hands dependently to around head height, but your arms do not "lift" themsleves to achieve that, they only independently move to sternum height. The Pivot is responsible for these folks for about 50% of the height of the hands/arms, and the arm pushaway and right elbow folding the other 50%.

When you really "get this" - you will not believe how tiny the proper arm motion really is...much, much less than someone thinks who is still under the spell of the Illusion.

[The Pearl]

[quote name='Jim Waldron' timestamp='1367197810' post='6934373']
[quote name='The Pearl' timestamp='1367197035' post='6934295']
Jim, I am sorry if you covered this earlier, I probably missed it...could you give a quick explanation of the V motion?
[/quote]

The arms make a V shaped motion ( a bit more toward a slight U motion on downswing part) in front of your rotating chest. You push your arms away from your chest, and never in toward your chest or around your chest, and you do that pushaway while you rotate your chest. The arms never ever get behind your chest - well, maybe a little at the Finish, but only there, after you release your Arm Pressures so that your Triangle structure becomes looser.

If average height and flexibility, the hands are only in line with top of sternum in height, but opposite the right shoulder area, in the drill where you do not rotate, just do the arm pushaway. In a real golf swing with a Pivot, the Pivot raises the hands dependently to around head height, but your arms do not "lift" themsleves to achieve that, they only independently move to sternum height. The Pivot is responsible for these folks for about 50% of the height of the hands/arms, and the arm pushaway and right elbow folding the other 50%.

When you really "get this" - you will not believe how tiny the proper arm motion really is...much, much less than someone thinks who is still under the spell of the Illusion.
[/quote]

Got it. One follow up, how much degree of right elbow fold would you say takes place?

[Jim Waldron]

[quote name='The Pearl' timestamp='1367198498' post='6934429']
[quote name='Jim Waldron' timestamp='1367197810' post='6934373']
[quote name='The Pearl' timestamp='1367197035' post='6934295']
Jim, I am sorry if you covered this earlier, I probably missed it...could you give a quick explanation of the V motion?
[/quote]

The arms make a V shaped motion ( a bit more toward a slight U motion on downswing part) in front of your rotating chest. You push your arms away from your chest, and never in toward your chest or around your chest, and you do that pushaway while you rotate your chest. The arms never ever get behind your chest - well, maybe a little at the Finish, but only there, after you release your Arm Pressures so that your Triangle structure becomes looser.

If average height and flexibility, the hands are only in line with top of sternum in height, but opposite the right shoulder area, in the drill where you do not rotate, just do the arm pushaway. In a real golf swing with a Pivot, the Pivot raises the hands dependently to around head height, but your arms do not "lift" themsleves to achieve that, they only independently move to sternum height. The Pivot is responsible for these folks for about 50% of the height of the hands/arms, and the arm pushaway and right elbow folding the other 50%.

When you really "get this" - you will not believe how tiny the proper arm motion really is...much, much less than someone thinks who is still under the spell of the Illusion.
[/quote]

Got it. One follow up, how much degree of right elbow fold would you say takes place?
[/quote]

I teach 75-90 degrees of right elbow bend at the Top. If you go past 90, you have lost your stretch or your sideways pressure or both. You never try to bend the right elbow, you "try" to push it out straight, the left arm makes the right bend since it is moving to the right of mid-line of body on the 45 degree angle, Law of Triangle in geometry, left side gets longer so right side has to get shorter.

[firstbatch]

The illusion is mesmerizing......It would be cool to see a swing video with all but the arms ghosted out and just watch(isolate) the arm action......kinda like the invisible man but just wrap his arms in cloth like a mummy and then watch the swing.

[J13]

Jim I too was back and forth looking at the swings today on TV. I kept going back and forth. Some players I could see the V others were a little tricky. Funny how you get a different perspective on something you've been seeing for years all of a sudden changes.

It's like finally admitting you need glasses then once you get them you realize that when you get home you actually have a small dog as a pet rather then the cat you thought you had for the last 10 years. 20/20 now my man.

[The Pearl]

[quote name='firstbatch' timestamp='1367199760' post='6934581']
The illusion is mesmerizing......It would be cool to see a swing video with all but the arms ghosted out and just watch(isolate) the arm action......kinda like the invisible man but just wrap his arms in cloth like a mummy and then watch the swing.
[/quote]

That would be awesome!

[sblack5]

I've read every post in this thread. cant wait to try it and begin to work on understanding it. the explanation seems very straightforward. I like the "get wider toward the east" bit referring to the downswing. seems counterintuitive but then again, so is every thing else that ends up correct in this silly game.

[CSagan]

So Jim earlier you said ectos would have about 10-12 inches of lift blended in and endos around 6-8? I can't recall the exact numbers but they were around that.

Anyways, so I'm 6'1" 185 ecto. While doing the rehearsal drill with no pivot should I just move my arms out around 12 inches in a 45 degree angle to really get that feel of that? Then just blend that 12 inch move into my triangle turning back? I feel like I've been overdoing the lift part and was doing it in front of a mirror with just feeling like I move a foot and its much more comfortable then trying to feel like they lift 5 feet.

[lv_2_hack]

Hey Jim, I apologize if this has already been answered, haven't read through every post.

If you have a guy like I used to be that has a very 'hardyish' backswing. Left arm works way too in with overdominant pivot/shoulders. This player obviously needs to FEEL like their arms are working up earlier without the pivot doing much of anything. I ask this because you commented about an earlier video being disconnected. I think I understand that the arms need to lift at the same rate the pivot turns, but wouldn't you rather have good players have their arms drive the pivot a bit more on the backswing instead of the hardish takeaway? Seems like it would be much easier to get their arms/pivot reconnected on the downswing with the arms up move with a pivot/shoulder turn that catches up late vs most good players i've noticed that have slow arms and they never catch up to the pivot.

For example, it seems like it would be easier to teach a David Tom's type backswing to the majority vs a Kuchar type backswing. Toms works UP to IN vs Kuchar that tends to work IN to UP. Really interested to see what your take is on this.

[scotee]

[size=4][color=#000000]Kiwi2 and Jim, I will add my thanks for this good discussion. I had a lesson in the early 90's from a playing pro nearTacoma Wa. I don't remember his name. In a few minutes he had me doing a swing so different than anything I had ever done which sounds much like what you describe. He put a club on the ground at a 45deg angle and had me make my club shaft trace over that in slow motion. He strapped me in a swing link and had me hitting great short irons with a swing that was bassakwards of what I thought it should be. It felt very out to in. Sadly he did not explain the whys of it and as it was a single out of town lesson I lost the feel and reverted to my inside move. I have tried to find that swing over the years on my own with little success. This thread gives me some new hope to find that again.[/color][/size]

[color=#000000][size=1][size=4]Do you teach at all when home in Enterprise? I live less than two hrs. away a few miles from Clarkston Wa. and would make the trip down. You live in two of my favorite places. With my wife and four daughters I have hiked to most of the lakes in the Wallowa Mountains. It is close to Paradise![/size][/size][/color]

[color=#000000][size=1][size=4]Hope your tooth settles down soon. Antibiotics and pain med. usually get them well in a few days:)[/size][/size][/color]

[Jim Waldron]

[quote name='scotee' timestamp='1367206025' post='6935203']
[size=4][color=#000000]Kiwi2 and Jim, I will add my thanks for this good discussion. I had a lesson in the early 90's from a playing pro nearTacoma Wa. I don't remember his name. In a few minutes he had me doing a swing so different than anything I had ever done which sounds much like what you describe. He put a club on the ground at a 45deg angle and had me make my club shaft trace over that in slow motion. He strapped me in a swing link and had me hitting great short irons with a swing that was bassakwards of what I thought it should be. It felt very out to in. Sadly he did not explain the whys of it and as it was a single out of town lesson I lost the feel and reverted to my inside move. I have tried to find that swing over the years on my own with little success. This thread gives me some new hope to find that again.[/color][/size]

[color=#000000][size=1][size=4]Do you teach at all when home in Enterprise? I live less than two hrs. away a few miles from Clarkston Wa. and would make the trip down. You live in two of my favorite places. With my wife and four daughters I have hiked to most of the lakes in the Wallowa Mountains. It is close to Paradise![/size][/size][/color]

[color=#000000][size=1][size=4]Hope your tooth settles down soon. Antibiotics and pain med. usually get them well in a few days:)[/size][/size][/color]
[/quote]

Yes - we have a little nine hole muni here with a small range that I do teach out of sometimes in the summer months. Not a lot of local business as you can imagine, it is one of the most isoalted communities in the lower 48! But sometimes students drive over from Portland, Spokane and Boise, or fly in even. You would be the first from Clarkston/Lewiston area.

[Jim Waldron]

[quote name='lv_2_hack' timestamp='1367205111' post='6935157']
Hey Jim, I apologize if this has already been answered, haven't read through every post.

If you have a guy like I used to be that has a very 'hardyish' backswing. Left arm works way too in with overdominant pivot/shoulders. This player obviously needs to FEEL like their arms are working up earlier without the pivot doing much of anything. I ask this because you commented about an earlier video being disconnected. I think I understand that the arms need to lift at the same rate the pivot turns, but wouldn't you rather have good players have their arms drive the pivot a bit more on the backswing instead of the hardish takeaway? Seems like it would be much easier to get their arms/pivot reconnected on the downswing with the arms up move with a pivot/shoulder turn that catches up late vs most good players i've noticed that have slow arms and they never catch up to the pivot.

For example, it seems like it would be easier to teach a David Tom's type backswing to the majority vs a Kuchar type backswing. Toms works UP to IN vs Kuchar that tends to work IN to UP. Really interested to see what your take is on this.
[/quote]

Yes - I agree with your point. But to be clear the arms do not "drive" the pivot - these are two totally independent motions that happen together, three when you add the wrist set, and doing one correctly has absolutely no effect on the others, at least in the case of the arms and pivot. Arms and wrists do tend to affect each other a bit actually, ie similar motions to some extent.

This is why it is tough to learn how to do well for most golfers in the early stages - it is like rubbing your tummy and patting your head and keeping a drum beat going with your left foot, all at the same time. But it is the only way to swing as simply as possible with an on-plane clubshaft while keeping space for a good Release to happen.

[Jim Waldron]

[quote name='CSagan' timestamp='1367202838' post='6934941']
So Jim earlier you said ectos would have about 10-12 inches of lift blended in and endos around 6-8? I can't recall the exact numbers but they were around that.

Anyways, so I'm 6'1" 185 ecto. While doing the rehearsal drill with no pivot should I just move my arms out around 12 inches in a 45 degree angle to really get that feel of that? Then just blend that 12 inch move into my triangle turning back? I feel like I've been overdoing the lift part and was doing it in front of a mirror with just feeling like I move a foot and its much more comfortable then trying to feel like they lift 5 feet.
[/quote]

Yes - you are on the right track. The "out" will naturally turn into the "up", like a scooping motion. The out is way more important. 12 inches probably about right for you. Although you can get too wide with the arms, John Cook told me a few years ago at the Sony that he was working on getting less wide. And he is a great model for this move as was the late Payne Stewart, talk about arm stretch and width!

[Jim Waldron]

Back in 2006 I had four students come to Portland from Singapore and take the Great Shot! golf school as a private group. All mid to high handicaps. One guy was about a 26 I think. They arranged for me to teach for a month at their private club in Singapore about 18 months later and that one student, the 26, had dropped down to about an 11. And the really strange thing is, he was actually doing the McSpaden drill as his normal golf swing, ie really using it on the course! He totally mis-interpreted a lot of the concepts and drills, and did not get that you are supposed to pivot while you do the arm pushaway, he was doing the arm part first and then pivoting, and playing the best golf of his life. He told all his golf buddies in Singapore that this was a radical new golf swing that this Waldron guy had invented! When I saw him in Singapore, it was kind of hard for me to tell him that he had got it all wrong! He was fine with it though and made the adjustment very quickly.

I also gave a lesson to a prominent golf OEM executive years ago who made the exact same mistake and got worse because of it. He saw me a week later and said, "you told me to move my arms out toward the target line without pivoting!". And I said "John - that was a drill, actually the first of two steps of a drill. You did not do the second step, which is the blending with the Pivot part!I never said that was my golf swing model. I teach an on-plane backswing, not a Trevino/Couples outside the plane backswing, and not McSpaden backswing either."

Folks see and hear what their filters demand.....

[Jim Waldron]

[quote name='CSagan' timestamp='1367202838' post='6934941']
So Jim earlier you said ectos would have about 10-12 inches of lift blended in and endos around 6-8? I can't recall the exact numbers but they were around that.

Anyways, so I'm 6'1" 185 ecto. While doing the rehearsal drill with no pivot should I just move my arms out around 12 inches in a 45 degree angle to really get that feel of that? Then just blend that 12 inch move into my triangle turning back? I feel like I've been overdoing the lift part and was doing it in front of a mirror with just feeling like I move a foot and its much more comfortable then trying to feel like they lift 5 feet.
[/quote]

I just re-read your post and noticed something. The inches I referenced were for takeaway width, not height. You pushaway almost parallel to the ground around 12 inches out from your body, measuring from the butt end of the club. Lift part will indeed be higher for an ecto and shorter for an endo but I wonder if maybe you got the two different dimensions/distances conflated?

[Kiwi2]

[quote name='Jim Waldron' timestamp='1367213750' post='6935583']
Back in 2006 I had four students come to Portland from Singapore and take the Great Shot! golf school as a private group. All mid to high handicaps. One guy was about a 26 I think. They arranged for me to teach for a month at their private club in Singapore about 18 months later and that one student, the 26, had dropped down to about an 11. And the really strange thing is, he was actually doing the McSpaden drill as his normal golf swing, ie really using it on the course! He totally mis-interpreted a lot of the concepts and drills, and did not get that you are supposed to pivot while you do the arm pushaway, he was doing the arm part first and then pivoting, and playing the best golf of his life. He told all his golf buddies in Singapore that this was a radical new golf swing that this Waldron guy had invented! When I saw him in Singapore, it was kind of hard for me to tell him that he had got it all wrong! He was fine with it though and made the adjustment very quickly.

I also gave a lesson to a prominent golf OEM executive years ago who made the exact same mistake and got worse because of it. He saw me a week later and said, "you told me to move my arms out toward the target line without pivoting!". And I said "John - that was a drill, actually the first of two steps of a drill. You did not do the second step, which is the blending with the Pivot part!I never said that was my golf swing model. I teach an on-plane backswing, not a Trevino/Couples outside the plane backswing, and not McSpaden backswing either."

Folks see and hear what their filters demand.....
[/quote]

I need to point out to people reading this post that there is no ambiguity when Jim explains this at his schools. Students are clearly told that this is a drill. They are shown it and practice it in slow motion in front of mirrors. When Jim thinks they have got it right they move on to the next stage. They do practice the merged motions with close supervision .Any confusion has nothing to do with Jim. It has everything to do with them not listening. but that is easy to understand because there is a lot of information given out. Jim doesn't expect his students to retain it all because he undertakes what he calls total immersion instruction which programs the subconscience.

Each of the participants at the Great Shot schools leave with a 170 page training manual (when I attended it was 151 pages), which spells it all out.The students Jim refers to obviously didn't read their manual.

Anyone wishing to buy the manual can get it from Jim's website for $85 plus $15 shipping and handling.

[CSagan]

[quote name='Jim Waldron' timestamp='1367215899' post='6935663']
[quote name='CSagan' timestamp='1367202838' post='6934941']
So Jim earlier you said ectos would have about 10-12 inches of lift blended in and endos around 6-8? I can't recall the exact numbers but they were around that.

Anyways, so I'm 6'1" 185 ecto. While doing the rehearsal drill with no pivot should I just move my arms out around 12 inches in a 45 degree angle to really get that feel of that? Then just blend that 12 inch move into my triangle turning back? I feel like I've been overdoing the lift part and was doing it in front of a mirror with just feeling like I move a foot and its much more comfortable then trying to feel like they lift 5 feet.
[/quote]

I just re-read your post and noticed something. The inches I referenced were for takeaway width, not height. You pushaway almost parallel to the ground around 12 inches out from your body, measuring from the butt end of the club. Lift part will indeed be higher for an ecto and shorter for an endo but I wonder if maybe you got the two different dimensions/distances conflated?
[/quote]

Hmm. I was saying that the amount the hands move at that 45 degree angle away from my chest along with my pivot is ~12" for me. When I did that is felt very comfortable and looked spot on in a mirror....but I can always make it look good in a mirror it seems haha. Im also doing this with good extensor action...basically everything dan worked on with me except only doing a 12 inch feeling.



Internet translations are hard.

[TeeAce]

[quote name='Jim Waldron' timestamp='1367213750' post='6935583']


Folks see and hear what their filters demand.....
[/quote]

+1000!!

[Jim Waldron]

[quote name='Kiwi2' timestamp='1367216319' post='6935673']
[quote name='Jim Waldron' timestamp='1367213750' post='6935583']
Back in 2006 I had four students come to Portland from Singapore and take the Great Shot! golf school as a private group. All mid to high handicaps. One guy was about a 26 I think. They arranged for me to teach for a month at their private club in Singapore about 18 months later and that one student, the 26, had dropped down to about an 11. And the really strange thing is, he was actually doing the McSpaden drill as his normal golf swing, ie really using it on the course! He totally mis-interpreted a lot of the concepts and drills, and did not get that you are supposed to pivot while you do the arm pushaway, he was doing the arm part first and then pivoting, and playing the best golf of his life. He told all his golf buddies in Singapore that this was a radical new golf swing that this Waldron guy had invented! When I saw him in Singapore, it was kind of hard for me to tell him that he had got it all wrong! He was fine with it though and made the adjustment very quickly.

I also gave a lesson to a prominent golf OEM executive years ago who made the exact same mistake and got worse because of it. He saw me a week later and said, "you told me to move my arms out toward the target line without pivoting!". And I said "John - that was a drill, actually the first of two steps of a drill. You did not do the second step, which is the blending with the Pivot part!I never said that was my golf swing model. I teach an on-plane backswing, not a Trevino/Couples outside the plane backswing, and not McSpaden backswing either."

Folks see and hear what their filters demand.....
[/quote]

I need to point out to people reading this post that there is no ambiguity when Jim explains this at his schools. Students are clearly told that this is a drill. They are shown it and practice it in slow motion in front of mirrors. When Jim thinks they have got it right they move on to the next stage. They do practice the merged motions with close supervision .Any confusion has nothing to do with Jim. It has everything to do with them not listening. but that is easy to understand because there is a lot of information given out. Jim doesn't expect his students to retain it all because he undertakes what he calls total immersion instruction which programs the subconscience.

Each of the participants at the Great Shot schools leave with a 170 page training manual (when I attended it was 151 pages), which spells it all out.The students Jim refers to obviously didn't read their manual.

Anyone wishing to buy the manual can get it from Jim's website for $85 plus $15 shipping and handling.
[/quote]

And we just finished updating it for the first time in almost three years - it is now about 210 pages.

[Jim Waldron]

[quote name='CSagan' timestamp='1367216882' post='6935689']
[quote name='Jim Waldron' timestamp='1367215899' post='6935663']
[quote name='CSagan' timestamp='1367202838' post='6934941']
So Jim earlier you said ectos would have about 10-12 inches of lift blended in and endos around 6-8? I can't recall the exact numbers but they were around that.

Anyways, so I'm 6'1" 185 ecto. While doing the rehearsal drill with no pivot should I just move my arms out around 12 inches in a 45 degree angle to really get that feel of that? Then just blend that 12 inch move into my triangle turning back? I feel like I've been overdoing the lift part and was doing it in front of a mirror with just feeling like I move a foot and its much more comfortable then trying to feel like they lift 5 feet.
[/quote]

I just re-read your post and noticed something. The inches I referenced were for takeaway width, not height. You pushaway almost parallel to the ground around 12 inches out from your body, measuring from the butt end of the club. Lift part will indeed be higher for an ecto and shorter for an endo but I wonder if maybe you got the two different dimensions/distances conflated?
[/quote]

Hmm. I was saying that the amount the hands move at that 45 degree angle away from my chest along with my pivot is ~12" for me. When I did that is felt very comfortable and looked spot on in a mirror....but I can always make it look good in a mirror it seems haha. Im also doing this with good extensor action...basically everything dan worked on with me except only doing a 12 inch feeling.



Internet translations are hard.
[/quote]

Ok - good to know that you got it right. Words are very clumsy sometimes.

[Jim Waldron]

The Arm Swing Illusion concept is not only for folks who tend to get "stuck" - it is also a great remedy for golfers who take it back with the left arm too close to mid-line, ie too much in front and too high at the Top. The point is that the 45 degree left arm to chest angle that you establish on takeaway is the Golden Rule. You do not want to be too much on either side of it, although closer to mid-line or a smaller angle is always the preferred error. Too much inside is impossible to recover from.

And same for forward swing. You need to achieve a 30-45 degree left arm to chest angle by P6 and then keep that angle intact during Release, so that you can apply the clubhead to the ball with your Pivot via the Triangle structure with an on plane shaft. That arm to chest angle is a constant when training - then you can adapt to that and adjust to it with other important elements like axis tilt, how open your shoulder girdle is at impact, how open the hips are, tempo, and wrist c0ck release point and speed.

But when that arm to chest angle is sorely lacking in consistency, it is really tough to employ those other elements in a consistent fashion. If you throw the angle away completely on one swing, you will almost always release the wrist c0ck angle way too early and stand up out of your Spine Angle to compensate. And you will Pivot Stall when you throw the arm angle away, and when you stand up. If on the next swing, you attain a 20 degree angle, and the one after that a perfect 40 degree angle, and the next one a zero degree angle - talks about lack of consistent shotmaking!

The upper arms come to a complete STOP at P6 against the chest, what we call SuperConnection. It does NOT mean full contact from elbow to armpit as has been debated in another thread here. Connection has many meanings but one of the Big Ones is that your arms and shoulder girdle move as "one firm unit" as Hogan said, during Release. More Spine Angle means less actual tricep to pec contact at the lower end of the upper arm, and less Spine Angle equals more contact, but that is not the main issue. The real issue is sensing when that SuperConnection point occurs and using that as a Trigger for your Pivot Thrust. You will feel your left arm across your chest in a very "strong" position to apply a lot of force from your Pivot into the ball. A very martial arts kind of powerful blow feeling. Nothing gentle about it at all. It feels braced and connected and ready to make the blow.

[Jim Waldron]

Understanding the Line of Sight sub-set Illusion is key. In my Arm Swing Illusion intro demo, I always do the following exercise. I go to the Top, and ask the group sitting in chairs behind me, down the line view for them, "did I swing my arms behind me?" Everyone says yes, with a lot of "obviously" comments.

Then I turn my face to look at them and ask it again. A little less certainty this time. I rotate my head back to to looking at the ball and ask again - more certainty this time in their responses. Then I rotate my head back again and say "Think in 3d and notice where my hands are relative to my chest right now". My chest is facing them, having rotated 90 degrees to the target line."Use your depth perception!".

Then I rotate back to looking at the ball again for a moment, then back to looking at the group - "are you sure my arms went behind my body?" I hear audible gasps of surprise and shock from half of the group. They are starting to see through the Illusion. The other half still are not getting it.

The I turn my feet around to face the group, so now my lower body, chest, face/eyes are all facing them in the same plane. Now they can clearly see through the Illusion. More gasps, a few people laugh out loud. A lot of "...no wonder I suck at golf!" comments.

[InaSilentWay]

Is the manual geared towards students who already took your seminars or can it be used by non-students? Also, is it all prose or are there diagrams, photos graphs, etc.?

Another bizarre feeling I experienced during release and impact. It feels as though the shaft is vertical, the hands are high with the arms pointing outside the target line(hacker's hands), the clubshaft from dtl is pointing at my chin and head, and that I've fully uncocked my wrists so that not only is there no more #3 accumulator angle, but the angle is negative. Feels like a massive underneath flip. Not true at all. Hands and butt end of clubshaft working left, hands close to my body while still maintaining the 45 degree arm angle, hands at waist high, and arms and shaft forming more or less a straight line with the shaft from dtl pointing at my midsection. I just woke up. Was this all a dream or did I really experience this?

[Jim Waldron]

[quote name='InaSilentWay' timestamp='1367231394' post='6935881']
Is the manual geared towards students who already took your seminars or can it be used by non-students? Also, is it all prose or are there diagrams, photos graphs, etc.?

Another bizarre feeling I experienced during release and impact. It feels as though the shaft is vertical, the hands are high with the arms pointing outside the target line(hacker's hands), the clubshaft from dtl is pointing at my chin and head, and that I've fully uncocked my wrists so that not only is there no more #3 accumulator angle, but the angle is negative. Feels like a massive underneath flip. Not true at all. Hands and butt end of clubshaft working left, hands close to my body while still maintaining the 45 degree arm angle, hands at waist high, and arms and shaft forming more or less a straight line with the shaft from dtl pointing at my midsection. I just woke up. Was this all a dream or did I really experience this?
[/quote]

The manual was originally meant for golf school gradutes to supplement their learning at the school but it is quite comprehensive and useful for non-graduates as well. Mostly text but with some diagrams and photos as well. We have gotten a lot of very positve feedback from non-students who have read it and use it as a training resource. E-book version coming soon.

[TeeAce]

I hope Jim you don't mind me to put this video also here as it explains few more illusions we create.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pZ1ejfGmbFk

[MK7Golf21]

Jim, what do you think of the illusion of the hips moving sideways on the downswing. I've found if I feel it goes side ways from the top that I actually go forward a bit like this /, if I feel I go southwest with my hips \, its turns out to actually be a straight line

[Jim Waldron]

[quote name='Redjeep83' timestamp='1367247340' post='6936983']
Jim, what do you think of the illusion of the hips moving sideways on the downswing. I've found if I feel it goes side ways from the top that I actually go forward a bit like this /, if I feel I go southwest with my hips \, its turns out to actually be a straight line
[/quote]


Not sure I understand your meaning here. I know that if your hips are more or less at 45 degrees closed at the Top, and you shift for the first half inch or so laterally along that 45 degree line, before any rotation kicks in, it will feel like more like about 6 inches of lateral shift for some of my students and that the shift is parallel to the target line.

I don't want to let this discussion move into that area of individual "feels" though since - with a few exceptions - those are not classified as Illusions, since they cannot be shown to be universally applicable by their very nature. The golf swing is chock full of all kinds of different and strange personal perceptions and that feel is such an individual thing.

[Tdangv]

Jim-
How much will the e-book cost? Debating whether to buy now or wait later if it's cheaper.

[Jim Waldron]

[quote name='Tdangv' timestamp='1367248990' post='6937183']
Jim-
How much will the e-book cost? Debating whether to buy now or wait later if it's cheaper.
[/quote]


Not sure at present of the cost - we are only now starting to research the whole e-book self-publishing thing...I am guessing substantially less.

We have a Short Game and Putting manual, a mental game manual and the golf swing manual for sale right now, and all will be updated and turned into e-books sometime toward the end of this year.