Pinned? Best modern balls for vintage clubs

[ScooterMcTavish]

50 Elite added...really not that impressed. I had gamed this ball years ago and enjoyed it - the new iteration seems to have a harder cover, and barely spun around the greens.

[Froth]

[quote name='birly-shirly' timestamp='1378382424' post='7800927']
Cheers Froth. Would you be able to post a link to the patents discussing either the braking action of the core, or the use of a frozen core? I'd be interested to read those. Cochrane and Stubbs book "Search for the Perfect Swing" is the best book of its type I've ever seen. It discusses golf ball construction and design in some detail (and of course was smack in the middle of the 3 piece wound ball era), but it only talks about the core in terms of bringing the ball up to 1.62oz in weight. Lighter balls fly considerably shorter.
[/quote]
There's a bunch of them.
- http://www.google.co.ls/patents/US4805914
- http://www.google.vu/patents/US5007594
- http://www.google.es/patents/US5194191

There's more than those too, I think the earliest one is from 1908. The one that describes the braking action escapes me at the moment, but one of those describes the use of a "gassed" liquid core, and goes on to explain the use of liquid because of its incompressible qualities. I did not know that many liquid filled balls were microwaved after being wound, but before the cover was applied.

[birly-shirly]

Cheers Froth. Some interesting reading there. One thing stood out though. The 3rd patent describes the freezing/thawing process - but as far as I can make out, the core was only frozen in order to keep the core's spherical shape whilst winding it. The microwave thawing process was simply a way of avoiding condensation and speeding up the production process. However, the way I read the patent, they're still describing a core made up of a container filled with liquid - not simply frozen liquid with no container and the windings applied direct to the frozen liquid.

"The cores used include liquid centers wherein a hollow spherical centerback of rubber or the like is filled in its hollow interior with water or liquid..."

I confess, I am not familiar with the terms "centerback" - but it sounds very much like some sort of hollow container, around which the windings are then applied.

The second patent also describes liquid centres contained within a spherical envelope.

[ScooterMcTavish]

Thread jackers.

5, yes 5 more reviews added, including:
Bridgestone e7
Slazenger Raw Distance Feel
Srixon Z-Star
Srixon Z-Star XV
Titleist ProV1

Each of the balls had their own merits. The only one I'd never game again is the XV. After hearing others speak highly of them, I was extremely disappointed.

[Froth]

You've gotta hit the XV hard as crap for it to work. I loved it, but I ultimately could not deal with how clicky it was off the Putter.

Balls I've hit thus far(all with FG-17's) Perhpas one day when I'm bored I'll do my own little write up in here on them with your format.

Titleist ProV1 2007, 2009, 2012-2013
Titleist ProV1x 2007, 2009, 2012-2013
Titleist Velocity (Not a Fan)
Titleist NXT Tour
Titleist NXT Tour S (Actually quite nice, soft sound/feel off the putter)
Srixon Z-Star X (Hardest ball EVER)
Srixon Z-Star
Srixon Z-Star XV
Srixon Z-Star SL
Srixon Soft Feel
Srixon Tri-Speed-Tour
Callaway Hex Black
Bridgestone B330
Bridgestone B330-RXS
Bridgestone E6
Precept Lady IQ+

Plus a bunch more balls they don't make anymore that I won't bother listing. I really liked the Z-Star SL, too bad they don't make them anymore.

I don't get the hype behind the ProV1's honest. Why the hell are they so hard/clicky? I want SOFTNESS!!!

[NRJyzr]

[quote name='Froth' timestamp='1379649505' post='7881483']
I don't get the hype behind the ProV1's honest.
[/quote]

Welcome to Titleist Koolaid. LOL

[oldschoolrocker]

Golfballs are like ammo, they each should be matched to the weapon and game. Herein lies the problem to be solved grasshopper. And then the OEMs have a new is always improved mindset. If they kept the same model rolling out they couldn't brainwash Joe Consumer that the price increases were necessary due to R n D.

[ScooterMcTavish]

Anytime you want to add some reviews Froth, step right up!

Personally, I didn't find the ProV to be an offensive ball off of vintage. It performed fine. It's a little firmer than the FG Tour, but no more so than many other urethane covered balls. In fact, I'd probably be even a little better playing it vs. the FG Tour, as it does spin less off the driver. But if I have a choice between it and a ball costing 1/3 to 1/2 as much, I'm buying the other ball.

To Titleist's credit, they have delivered a consistent product with universal availability. Remember Froth's experience in tracking down FG Tours? Never have that problem with a ProV; from Wal-Mart to Pro Shop, everyone has it. You always want to be the benchmark product (i.e. "The Cadillac of ________"), and Titleist has done this.

[oldschoolrocker]

Has anyone tried the Maxfli low compression Revolution?

[ScooterMcTavish]

OSR, I did review the Maxfli Revolution Spin on the first post. Wasn't bad - though I'd guess the Spin has a slightly softer cover than the LoCo. Worth a try at $10/doz.

[oldschoolrocker]

Thanks SMac. Yes, when I saw the price...

[Froth]

Probably going to Experiment with the Cally Hex Chrome and Chrome+, Regular Chrome has Lower Driver spin than FG tour, and higher half wedge spin and is advertised with a "lower compression core". I assume the Chrome+ is a Firmer "X" version of the Chrome.

I've been reading that the FG tour will be changed in 2014.

[ScooterMcTavish]

Nike 20X1-X added

Should note that since I ran out of FG Tours, I've played some Z-Stars I've had lying around.

If you don't mind the firmer feel (looking at you, Froth), it has played very well for me. I've had some approaches that have bit harder with this ball than with any other ball I've recently used (including the FG Tour). And for some reason, Srixon's urethane cover seems more durable than just about anyone else's.

Really good ball for vintage IMHO.

[ScooterMcTavish]

Nike Crush (Red) added. Pretty good two-piece ball.

Also updated the Strata Jet and ProV ratings - played both a little more and was a little harsh in first assessment. Except for its price, I could play the ProV all day, any day.

[Kirasdad]

Yes, I would agree the Pro V1 seems to feel pretty good for my vintage gear as well, although the Lady IQ definitely goes farther. I simply won't pay 45+ for a dozen balls. You can always find a urethane something or other for less than 30 on sale somewhere.

I played an all vintage nine holes yesterday and found a ball in the rough (what I was doing in there, I don't know) that I liked a lot. The Maxfli Noodle Soft (the soft is printed in green lettering). It went as far as the Lady IQ but with a nicer feel. The IQ really performs but it's pretty marshmallowy in feel. The Noodle chipped and putted well too for a cheap two piece. Now, I need to come to terms with playing a ball called the Noodle. The Hawk would write me out of his will.

What do you mean that's already been dispersed! But I'm still waiting for my check!

[ScooterMcTavish]

Wilson Staff Duo added. What a really, really nice ball. Literally, the best two piece ball I've ever played. Feels fantastic off vintage irons and wood, and even putts very softly for a surlyn covered ball.

[dbuck47]

I really need to try those, I have been meaning to all summer, but haven't got 'round to it.

[ScooterMcTavish]

Some retailers do carry the blems at times - if the blems are as good as the FG Tour blems, then yippee!

Read an article somewhere that said the Duo was the second best selling ball at PGA Superstore at one point this year.

[oldschoolrocker]

Don't worry dbuck. They are even better in the winter with their low compression rating. At the local muni they starting touting them to the old guys last winter. Got em hooked.

[Froth]

IMO, FG tour is the best ball for vintage AND normal play that I could possibly hope for. FG tour for life!

[morrisminor]

Used a Wilson dx2 soft recently,I would recommend them, but it really highlighted to me how important trust in the ball is. I knew I should like it - tap ups with a wedge and practice putts felt great - but somehow looking at the shallow dimples and unfamiliar name really messed with my mind, resulting in some comically bad shots to start with. Something about it made my brain say 'this ball isn't right' at the top of my backswing.
Something about the finish on Pro v1s is trustworthy, same with the Srixon Z Star. It got me wondering if the only difference between a good and a bad ball is the trust in what it can do, and knowing its and our own limitations. I'm sure they are all better in every respect than the gutties young Tom Morris used to such great effect...

Anyway I digress, how about the Wilson dx2?

[ScooterMcTavish]

If memory serves correct, the DX2 hasn't been available here for about 5 years now.

Wilson's North American lineup used to be Dx2 as the 2-piece distance ball, Px3 as the intermediate 3-piece-surlyn ball, and Tx4 as the urethane-covered tour ball.

These were replaced by the 50/50 (Later 50 Elite), Zip, and FG Tour (X added later).

Then they replaced the 50/50 with the D:25, the Zip with the C:25, and the FG Tour hung around.

Now, it is tough to find the D:25, the C:25 plays different than the Zip, the Zip is now a 2-piece Wal-Mart discount ball, the FG Tour is being discontinued and replaced with a "new" FG Tour, and the 50 Elite still lives on at mass market retail as a former shell of itself. There is also now the Duo, which doesn't appear to be a direct replacement for anything, but is like an original 50/50 on steroids.

Hope you followed that!

In other words, I can't even test a Dx2 as they haven't sold them here for years. I wonder if it is a UK rebranded version of the 50 Elite, as it still has the pan head dimples.

As to the confidence thing, if a ball performs consistently for you, then you build confidence in it. If a ball doesn't perform consistently for you, then you lose confidence in it. It's really that simple. The name and dimple pattern may be a bit off putting, but if the thing performs, you become more confident over it.

[birly-shirly]

[url="http://www.wilson.com/en-us/golf/balls/"]http://www.wilson.com/en-us/golf/balls/[/url]

[url="http://www.wilson.com/en-gb/golf/balls/"]http://www.wilson.com/en-gb/golf/balls/[/url]

Those are the 2 Wilson pages listing their balls depending on whether you're in North America (sorry, Scooter - and this after you being called a "colonial" too!) or the UK. 2 different lines of ball brands? In the age of the internet? I should have posted this in the "What happened to Wilson" thread.

[rtv]

I've seen some dx3's this summer with more conventional dimples instead of the shallow ones. New model?

[ScooterMcTavish]

rtv, just noticed you're in Finland.

Home of one of my favourite bands (Sonata Arctica), one of my favourite footballers (Sami Hyypia), and one of my favourite hockey players (Teemu Selanne).

Apparently Wilson is a wholly-owned subsidiary of Amer Sports of Finland, but is headquartered in the US. With both a strong US and European presence, possibly they're tailoring their offerings to the individual markets.

Of note, the two newest balls Wilson sells under the staff label in North America (FG Tour and Duo), neither have the panhead dimples. Possibly the fact that people hate the look of them has been enough to get them to change?

[rtv]

Scooter, you would be right about Amer Sports. Personally I don't care much for Sonata Arctica and I'd take Litmanen over Hyypiä all day, but Selänne is certainly in a league of his own. I'm just old enough to remember his rookie season on NHL. We only got about 30 minutes of NHL a week back then, with terrible picture quality (I guess proper NTSC to PAL conversion was too expensive or something).

[ScooterMcTavish]

I remember when Litmanen played for Liverpool. All he ever did was score goals when he came on as a substitute. That being said, Sami was the solid heart of a very good Liverpool defence under Houllier then Benitez for quite a few years.

Don't mind Stratovarius myself either, but find I like the heavier sound SA manages to get on a lot of albums. There's also a good newer power metal band out of Austria right now which would be what I would imagine the child of Sonata Arctica and Stratovarius would sound like. Band's name is Serenity.

They seem to have really hit their stride on their latest album, The Legacy.

[media=]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TMrZDdKxvS0[/media]

Edit: Yet again, our threads seem to have deviated from the subject at hand. What an enjoyable forum.

[NRJyzr]

I probably need to check out some power metal at some point. Though I didn't care for the guitar-mastubatory-solo dominated hair metal period all that much.

Being of Finn ancestry, I always enjoyed seeing Hyypia on the pitch. I only wish he could have scored when he came on in his final match at Anfield (came close). The Kop might have exploded; it nearly did just for the near miss on that corner.

Which is somewhat similar to Carragher in his final PL match, launching from range and rattling the woodwork.

Good stuff.

[BIG STU]

One thing you guys have forgot to mention is compression of the ball to the clubface. In other words the older balata balls stayed on the clubface a scant bit longer and by trapping the ball with the short irons and hitting down and through produces spin. As far as balata balls degrading it depends on how they were stored . A friend of mine gave me a dozen HT-100s that had been in his house in the closet for years still in the sleeves. They had not yellowed a bit. He also gave me a dozen Slazenger Balatas that had been stored right next to the HTs and they were yellowed. We have a little par 3 course next to us that we used to play some. Some friends of mine were down visiting and we decided to play vintage par 3 that night. I have enough old stuff so everyone got a wedge and putter of their choosing. We kinda divvied up the balls with some HTs Slazengers and Club specials. We had a great time. We had the tourist golfers really looking because all of us were spinning the heck out of the ball and zipping it back. One of the tourists told his son that it was easy to spin the ball with illegial groove wedges. I had to show him I was hitting a 53 Spalding Top-Flite wedge and a 25 year old balata ball he could not believe it. One of my friends is a really great player and at the time was playing the old Tarheel Tour (now E golf) and was spinning the crap out of one of the old Slazengers with a 55 MacGregor Great Scott wedge. It was fun. I have not tried any of the vintage balls with mid irons or woods so I cant really comment on how they would hit there due to age. I do remember I carried a machined ball roundness guage to check balls with actually I had 2 of them one to check "American" balls with and one to check "British" balls with. I remember the old Dunlop 65 British size would go like heck but would be outa round after 3 holes or so. Oh wow! thanks for the trips down memory lane

[NRJyzr]

[quote name='BIG STU' timestamp='1384520267' post='8152476']
One thing you guys have forgot to mention is compression of the ball to the clubface. In other words the older balata balls stayed on the clubface a scant bit longer and by trapping the ball with the short irons and hitting down and through produces spin.
[/quote]

I hate to do this... that's not what's truly producing the spin, at least not for the most part. It's the combination of the radius of gyration of the core and the softness of the cover that are producing the spin. Wound balls, generally speaking, have a radius of gyration that is closer to the center of the ball. This makes them easier to spin. The softer covers also aids spin, with the shorter clubs. Cmpression enters the game as well, but it's not the primary player, as I've seen it explained.

The "hitting down/trapping the ball" line of thought hasn't played well in the high speed video days, which have shown it not to be the case. Thinking along those lines and attempting to do so may produce the conditions that provide the spin, but what's actually occurring isn't the same as the thought producing the swing.