Rounds with a Vintage Bag

[TimV]

Glad to hear you're "Making the turn" Steve. Many more great rounds for you ahead!

[gsea33]

I think button backs refers to a black Wilson circle with a gold crown logo in the center of the head, and is from very late 60's/early 70's. Your clubs would be Dynapowers.

 

Wilson really knew how to make clubs back then. I love my 56 Dynapowereds the most, and I've got 62-ish Turfriders I also like, but I prefer the heavier 56 heads. And the leather grips.

 

Been thinking about getting bullet backs since they looks like they've got a nice vibration.

 

Yes they are Dyna Powers. My bad. I agree the heavy heads imo are what makes early Wilsons so playable. I feel the a lot of the head weight is in the heel also. A 65 game improvement club LOL. Just to continue my saga, played the 77 apexes 2day. A heavy head but after playing the Wilsons Not as heavy. I think the rest of the season the Wilsons will be the irons for play until they betray me.

[scomac2002]

I had mentioned previously that I was entered in a scramble on the weekend. It would seem that was not meant to be as I decided to spill rendered pork fat down my leg and over my foot on Friday night while in the process of barbequing ribs. It sounds worse than it is and actually consider myself quite lucky that the damage wasn't more severe. That said, golf was out of the question. I did decide to give it a go for nine holes today as my limb was feeling quite a bit better thanks to the magical healing powers of aloe.

 

I was playing vintage once again. I got off to a bit of a rough start as I was finding it difficult to get loosened up. By the fourth hole I was striking the ball better and proceeded to hit several very nice iron shots off the tee which lead to a string of 3 consecutive pars. I was watching some chipping lessons on youtube over the weekend including some instruction videos from Me and My Golf. I tried to put this into play today and was quite pleased with my efforts with three particularly good chips (<3' of hole) from varying distances using a variety of clubs. No doubt that helped with the scoring today!

 

I'm becoming increasingly fond of my old Heavenwood. It is a very reliable utility wood that is equally at home from the tee, fairway or rough. It has been my best club over the past three weeks or so with today's highlights being a couple of wonderful recovery shots from the junk following wayward drives. Therein lies the root of all evil in my game at the moment as I seem to be in driver pergatory. It doesn't matter what I put in my hands, the results are brutal. Perhaps I should just stick to hitting the Heavenwood or 4 iron off the tee, but I've never really had an issue hitting driver before so this is something that needs to be addressed.

 

I was glad we were done after nine holes as my foot was starting to ache. Everything other than the long game seems to be headed in the right direction so I'm happy about that. I've got an eye appointment next week. That's not something that you normally think about, but I did notice today that I was having a bit of an issue with depth perception with my sports glasses that may have been leading to me topping a few shots. My sports glasses are distance only vision, but that doesn't quite equate to golf distance vision, unfortunately they are the only tinted glasses I have at the moment as my clip-ons for my everyday glasses broke back in the winter.

[TimV]

So how fast did you get out of those pants!?!

Glad you are on the mend and the injury wasn't more serious. Can't have things interfering with our play. ;)

[scomac2002]

There were no pants involved. I was wearing shorts and flip flops, so my ankle and foot kinda got deep fried!

 

It's not bad to the touch today. It's just the rubbing of wearing a shoe irritates things if you walk a distance. If nine holes wasn't enough yesterday, my son's border collie took me for a walk last night at close to jogging pace. I had quite enough by the time we got back to the house!

[TimV]

Played the 69 Hogans today. Didn't score well due to a combination of mediocre putting and some bad luck honestly. Had the ball take some really bad hops. Example: Hole 16 - 115 yards from tee box placement - Shot had good trajectory and was pin high but hit 3 feet left of the green just at the slope and hopped dead left 20 feet! However, my ball striking was very solid and I was consistently finding the sweet spot with my irons. One of those days where I felt I played much better than my score indicated. I also am really liking the Hogan speed slot 4 wood I'm playing with these.

[stevemcgee99]

I hate bad bounces... I could swear Wilson Duo cores are attracted to sprinklers.

[TimV]

How did you know what ball I was playing Steve!?! :swoon:

[ScooterMcTavish]

Well, been a busy year with moving and home renos, so I only got my first 9 in last Thursday. Considering I hadn even swung a club yet this year, I had fairly low expectations.

 

Seeing the condition of the local muni, my expectations went a little lower. Our course had been under very poor management the last few years, and was at the verge of insolvency. This has resulted in using lots of volunteerism to maintain the course, and a much reduced maintenance schedule, meaning US Open style rough on many holes, and greens so heavy that reading break is very difficult.

 

Regardless, played with my main gamer bag from last year (M75, Hogsn FWs, Hogan One Plus irons, Wilson DW and Billy Casper putter). M75 was a little dodgy, with all drives being low screamers on the day, though the results were useable, with only one being obnoxiously short.

 

Iron play (as expected) was a bit dodgier at first, and improved markably through the round. Putting was a bit dodgy, but that was a reflection more of the greens. Excepting a couple of bad lies, and an unpleasant experience in a hard packed bunker, I could have had an OK round. Still wasn't bad, at a +9 44, parring out the last three holes.

 

Most odd part of the round was after its completion, I was like "That's fine, I'm now good for a while". Maybe it's just I have enough in life going on right now that golfing just isn't top of the "things I'll do when I have time" list.

 

On one last note, boy is the Duo a good golf ball.

[Fellaheen51]

Nice to see a post from you again Scooter. I'd say a 44 first time out, with a set of vintage, is a very respectable score. Shaggy course and all.

 

Playing at golf can become something of a compulsion rather than recreation quite easily. Always sound reasoning to keep it all in balance relative to life's greater obligations. Priorities are constantly changing. Makes those opportunities when does decide to get out for a nine, all the more enjoyable.

 

Absolutely concur on the Duo. All that I need in a ball, play them with regularity. Side benefit, don't even have to mark them for ID purposes. No one plays Wilson golf balls in my play groups.

[scomac2002]

 

Absolutely concur on the Duo. All that I need in a ball, play them with regularity. Side benefit, don't even have to mark them for ID purposes. No one plays Wilson golf balls in my play groups.

 

Indeed. It seems that everyone I play with uses either Titleist or Callaway so the Wilson ball is an easy spot particularly with the big bold 50 on the Elite 50's!

[ScooterMcTavish]

Well, and got in another 9 last night. My next few weeks look pretty hectic, so I wanted to try one more round to see if I felt any more excitement about golfing.

 

Sure enough, I looked forward to the round with some anticipation, and went out and shot a nice +5 40 on a very windy evening. Only change from the other day was I dropped an FT-3 in the bag instead of the M75W. Compared to the 4 driving holes I had with the Mac, I was better on all four, with excellent placement on two, and OK placement on two. With the Mac, I had poor distance on one, and bad placement on 3 of 4. Well, vintage driver is always the last club to come around, isn't it?

 

What I did enjoy was how quiet the course was. Saw one person on the 8th green when I was on the 2nd fairway, and one person on the 3rd fairway when I was on the 8th fairway. Oh, and some teenage girls who were riding around on a cart and hootin' and hollerin' Not sure what that was all about.

 

So I was able to keep a calm, measured, somewhat leisurely pace for the round, and finished my nine in about 1:25, which included lots of time looking over putts on the thick shaggy greens. I had a very rare (for me) sand save, and put up five pars, three bogies, and a double when I hit into a hazard (175 yd carry over water into the teeth of a 27 MPH wind). Considering I only hit 2 GIR, not a bad result (up and down in two three times), though I don't think I missed a green by more than 3 yards, and I missed three putts by less than three inches.

 

Pretty good for second round of the year, though I have a sneaking suspicion I won't be back out for a few weeks at least. Was still very nice to have such a pleasant evening on the course.

[johnnydman]

Heard about a local old course closing in a month, tried to get out but heavy rain prevented play.

 

Not the greatest course but a good one for the Classic kit, check it out:

http://www.minervalakegolf.com/index.php

 

Some old pictures (small size though) and a bit about the history of the course.

 

Was always a course many beginners played, of note, there is no sand on the course, just grass filled minor bunker areas. Greens always were tricky.

 

Hope to get one last round in before they close, July 4th.

[johnnydman]

Small tournament at an old school course using the Classic kit.

Champions of Columbus golf course, Robert Trent Jones Sr., par 70 at 6193yds.

Playing with MacGregor M85 Driver, Mac Series 60 3wd and 5 wd, Hogan Apex PC irons (3-gap wedge).

 

A little nervous playing the old stuff but this course is well suited for it. Modern driver is only useful on about 2 holes, this course is all about fairways and greens. I just haven't played much this year, let alone play with the older stuff.

 

I played well enough it seemed but score wasn't favorable. 45/48 for a 93. I saw 8 bunkers, 2 fairway bunkers and 6 green side (ugggh!). I only had 2 tee shorts that were ugly (duck hook) but they were still nearly 200yds and only one required a recovery shot. I had a few VERY nice drives with the M85...some were too nice as I rolled through the fairway and behind trees on a couple of occasions.

Best hole of the day was #9, 400yd very slight dogleg rt to a slightly uphill green. Nice drive (about 235yds) over right side fwy bunker but not enough to reach the fairway. 170 to the middle, always plays one club longer, 5i to dead center green rolled to back fringe, pin in the back. Most delicate of pitches to 18inches, easy putt for par.

 

Beautiful day to play. Unlucky with some breaks but that's life!

[oldschoolrocker]

dman,

Sounds like all in all it was a splendid day of golf. Thanks for sharing the experience with us.

[TimV]

I picked up a set of 60/61 Wilson Staff Models 2-PW yesterday morning and spent several hours cleaning them up and working on them. Nice original leather grips on them. Added an Arnold Palmer SW with aluminum shaft, my Bullseye flange putter, Custom persimmon driver, Arnold Palmer laminate 3w, Ram laminate 5w and played them today...

YA BABY!!!

Very solid round until my back gave out. It would have been an exceptional round but I couldn't get my putter going and my driver play was very uneven. Iron play was very good. I really like the feel of these heads and love the Staff Pro shafts! I was hitting a baby fade with these for some reason whereas I normally hit a baby draw with most of my other irons.

[ScooterMcTavish]

It would have been an exceptional round but I couldn't get my putter going and my driver play was very uneven.

 

Almost spit out my coffee when I read that Tim. I always say something similar to my partners or myself along the lines of "Man, I was having an awesome round today except for __________"

 

Just like last night. I subbed in for someone at league, and shot a very good round considering how much I've played this year, except for the two OOB shots I made. Those accounted for 4 of my 8 over.

[golfnut1964]

TimV

 

I absolutely luuuv my ss 4w. I put a satin finish on it just love looking down on this puppy.

Apex 4 shaft very reliable club.

 

 

[jonnygrouville]

I felt the claws of vintage golf this evening. First time I had played since moving house, so have been busy and lifting stuff has not been kind to the tendons in my wrist. Rushed out and hit it fine for the first few.

 

The rough is up at the mo, and lost a ball off a not bad drive, then lost one toe-hook off the next, carbon-copy off the next tee and had now lost three balls in three when I can play the same ball for a month with the hickories.

 

Whilst I would give myself a pretty good number out of ten for striking, my confidence and mental game would be "n/a". Really got me not being able to find the middle of the clubface. Chipped it down the next and found the grooves, pully off the next and then another toe.

 

By this stage I was swearing in latin, running out of ways to express my rage. Managed a couple more decent ones then had 180 into a par five having finally ripped a drive. Then honestly hit the worst shot I have hit for years, a 20 yard fat-smother into thick rough. Dropped another ball which I hit to five feet, huge towering flight, rolled in for lost ball par.

 

Had some strong words with myself and shaped up okay for the last few, staying behind the ball at last, but just felt like vintage golf had me by the perculiars. Modern clubs, I might not have lost those shots out of the toe. Just got under my skin.

 

There is a price to pay for the satisfaction you get from the persimmon flush as the other side of the coin is pretty ugly. Vintage golf is a harsh mistress...

 

[TimV]

JG, I am beginning to believe that vintage is a harsher mistress to those with higher swing speeds than to those of us with lower ones. Stay the course.

[jonnygrouville]

Yes. As the stock response to a bad shot is "Hmmm. I am obviously not trying to hit this hard enough."

 

Death spiral ensues.

 

Vintage clubs just more difficult to get out of...

 

[ScooterMcTavish]

Different experience Johnny, as I played 18 last Friday with my Eye2s and both playing partners commented on how smooth my swing was. Playing vintage can apparently provide immunization against hasty swings!

 

I'd only had two 9 hole rounds to report on until last week, and I played a cornucopia of 27 holes in the last 5 days!

 

First was a league round as a substitute for a friend. Finished with a +5, all 5 of which were earned on two holes. Clubs played were Zings, a G10 draw driver, Hogan persimmon FWs, vintage wilson wedges, and the Billy Casper. Round was 1 bird, 4 pars, 1 bogey, 1 double, 1 triple.

 

Next round was at the lake house, and finished the front 9 at a +5 40, with the exact same breakdown as the league round (1 b, 5p, 1db, 1tb). Back 9 was a bit tougher (very long), and I finished with a +9 46, for a total of 86 for 18. Was really a tale of two games, with the front being composed of solid striking, excellent putting, and good drives (with the exception of two holes). Back nine was just generally inconsistent, with few holes having solid all-around play. Used the same ball the entire round, a Z-Star SL. Boy those were good balls. Round was shot using my G10 draw, the Eye2s (3i-LW), a couple of old TM Raylor FWs, and my rusty Maxfli TM-8 putter. Favorite club of the round was the TM-8.

[Nomad Golfer]

Hi Scooter. Has anyone done a weight comparison between vintage and modern irons? (comparing apples with apples)

I've read that some of the old pros reckon modern clubs are not heavier enough - anything in this?

I use a heavy'ish Sonartec MD 19* hybrid, I can swing it better than the others and it goes far & straight so there may be something in that theory.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

edit: fixed error

[birly-shirly]

It's somewhat true, but difficult to make comparisons. I have some Hogan iron heads from the late '50s sitting on my bench just now, and they each weigh between 10 and 20g more than the equivalent iron when comparing them to some Mizuno TP9s from the late 80s (which is fairly modern in my workshop). But then you need to factor in that club lengths in the 50s were at least a half inch to an inch shorter than modern standards - and swingweights might be similar. I've got 2 built up 5 irons in front of me just now, a 1950s Slazenger Hogan Precision and a Mizuno TP19. Difference in deadweight is only a gram and they're within 1 SW point of each other at D3/D4. Some modern clubs will swingweight much lighter than that, and some old clubs will be much heavier. Some of this is cyclical though. There have been lightweight and heavyweight fads, and I believe that hickory clubs typically swingweight quite a bit lighter than most modern clubs and benefit from lead taping.

[Nomad Golfer]

It's somewhat true, but difficult to make comparisons. I have some Hogan iron heads from the late '50s sitting on my bench just now, and they each weigh between 10 and 20g more than the equivalent iron when comparing them to some Mizuno TP9s from the late 80s (which is fairly modern in my workshop). But then you need to factor in that club lengths in the 50s were at least a half inch to an inch shorter than modern standards - and swingweights might be similar. I've got 2 built up 5 irons in front of me just now, a 1950s Slazenger Hogan Precision and a Mizuno TP19. Difference in deadweight is only a gram and they're within 1 SW point of each other at D3/D4. Some modern clubs will swingweight much lighter than that, and some old clubs will be much heavier. Some of this is cyclical though. There have been lightweight and heavyweight fads, and I believe that hickory clubs typically swingweight quite a bit lighter than most modern clubs and benefit from lead taping.

Thanks. My Spalding irons in 1974 were standard lie D2 swingweight. I've noticed that my persimmon woods are fairly lightweight though and I might try what you suggest about adding some lead tape to see what happens. In my personal experience I swing better with a heavier club - others probably experience the opposite, a bit like comparing diesel with petrol.

[ScooterMcTavish]

N-G weight is a funny topic, as I think much of the issue is where the weight comes from. B-S is right too, in that it is difficult to generalize that a whole era of irons is heavier.

 

I had a set of Nickent ARC blades with DG S300 shafts in them (circa 2010). They were D3, and I found their heaviness combined with the heavy stiff shaft made them too much club for me. To swing them as hard as I needed to to get the shafts to load was putting excessive strain on my joints - especially my back and shoulder.

 

In contrast, I have Eye2s with the ZZ Lite shafts in them - I believe these are something like a C9. Despite a stiffer shaft, I have no issues with the loading the clubhead, and I don't tear up my back and shoulder. My old Apex IIs were also lighter than D3 - likely in a D1 range.

 

So no, my experience has been most "better" irons these days are in the D3 range for men, with some exceptions, mainly based on shaft. Where I see the main difference is in woods (obviously) which played incredibly heavy "back then" compared to modern drivers and FWs. My Hogan FWs I play are very heavy (with the Apex Pro 5 steel shafts), and I do hit them well like you with your Sonartech. Having the heavy club certainly shows down my backswing and tempo. Wouldn't want to have to swing it fore than a handful of times a round though.....

[birly-shirly]

I felt the claws of vintage golf this evening. First time I had played since moving house, so have been busy and lifting stuff has not been kind to the tendons in my wrist. Rushed out and hit it fine for the first few.

 

The rough is up at the mo, and lost a ball off a not bad drive, then lost one toe-hook off the next, carbon-copy off the next tee and had now lost three balls in three when I can play the same ball for a month with the hickories.

 

Whilst I would give myself a pretty good number out of ten for striking, my confidence and mental game would be "n/a". Really got me not being able to find the middle of the clubface. Chipped it down the next and found the grooves, pully off the next and then another toe.

 

By this stage I was swearing in latin, running out of ways to express my rage. Managed a couple more decent ones then had 180 into a par five having finally ripped a drive. Then honestly hit the worst shot I have hit for years, a 20 yard fat-smother into thick rough. Dropped another ball which I hit to five feet, huge towering flight, rolled in for lost ball par.

 

Had some strong words with myself and shaped up okay for the last few, staying behind the ball at last, but just felt like vintage golf had me by the perculiars. Modern clubs, I might not have lost those shots out of the toe. Just got under my skin.

 

There is a price to pay for the satisfaction you get from the persimmon flush as the other side of the coin is pretty ugly. Vintage golf is a harsh mistress...

 

I sympathise. Played Wednesday night and hit the ball as badly as I have in years for a 9 over outward 9. Truth is, if I hadn't been scrambling like a bar steward, I'm not sure I would have broken 50. Something clicked on the way down the 9th though and I played the second half in 1 over with tap in pars all the way. Stupid game for stupid people!

 

The good news is, after waxing lyrical on here about my new hybrids, I had the butter knives back in the back and got great value out of the 1, 2 and 3 irons once I stopped shanking.

[jonnygrouville]

Smacked a set of velocitized woods and 1960s Armour reissue irons around Loch Lomond last week. Spectacular course, always a joy.

 

Level going out, but lost a ball on eleven when I blocked a two iron four yards to a tight right pin and found a cart-path then doubled twelve out of rage. Managed to make the 250 yard carry to the fourteenth, a short par four you can play sensibly or try and fly it over the marsh. Weird putting day as I made three birdies, but all tap-ins.

 

Dinner of haggis, neeps and tatties, copious amounts of lager and red wine, not a lot could be better.

 

[scomac2002]

I dug the vintage bag out of storage and played them today. This was the first round with those clubs since early April. It wasn't pretty...

 

I was looking for a change of pace so I guess you could say they delivered on that point. Suffice to say that it was an "entertaining" round...

 

I did absolutely scald a drive on 8 right through the fairway and left me stymied by a tree. Still, it was nice to measure off a 260 yd. pop with the old Callaway BB War bird -- man that thing is a beast when you nut one! Longest drive of the season for me, but it didn't do anything for the score on the hole!

 

There was probably more good than bad about the outing when you factor in the big drive and a pin shot on 2 with a 4 iron, but both shots still only resulted in bogies.

 

More importantly, considering the amount of nicks and dings I have incurred this season it is a small triumph that I can get through a round without some sort of ache or pain. Today was one such occasion that has been very rare of late, in fact it was the first time in recent memory!

[scomac2002]

Played the vintage bag again yesterday walking 18. I haven't played many full rounds this year due to my various ailments, but I was feeling good so decided to take advantage and test the old body out.

 

I started out on a good note with a par on the first hole, a short par 4 dogleg left hitting my 3 iron off the tee -- a nice straight flight that left me with about 90 yards to the green. A smooth wedge and a two putt par and we were off to the races or so I thought!

 

The rest of the front saw me struggle with my tee ball (again). Fortunately my short game and putting was good enough to avoid the big numbers. 44 out...

 

Things went from bad to worse on the back until after three consecutive duck hooks off the tee made me cry uncle with my woods. When I have become accustomed to playing upright woods all season, the switch to the comparatively flat War birds just isn't working at all! Time for a different approach!

 

About a month ago I mentioned playing with the owner and superintendent at the course I work at. Jeff hit 3 irons off the tee pretty much exclusively unless it was a really wide open hole, so I figured why not try that approach for the remainder of the round.

 

I had five holes left so it was 3 iron off the tee for the two par fours and the par five. What a pleasant change to have the ball in the fairway. I was probably getting 180 plus roll out of it so I wasn't really that much different than my playing partner distance wise on balance. Maybe a club longer on the approach, but no more. That allowed me to finish the round no worse than bogie. Salvage 49 in; equals a respectable (for me) 93.

 

I wouldn't lay claim that I can hit a 3 iron off the deck very handily, but off the tee is a different story and miles better than another "wood" when the driver isn't behaving. It's got me thinking about a similar type of option for use in my modern bag. It's always something! ;)