Random conversation thread

[okesa]

[size=5]Yep,'Phil the Greek' seems to have been a remote father figure,Charles apparently interacted more positively with his uncle Mountbatten who was tragically murdered by the IRA.[/size]
[size=5]I don't envy Charles at all,his mum is unlikely to hand him the crown but I don't suppose he's too bothered now,at least his domestic situation is more settled with Camilla rather than the loony that he was first married to.[/size]
[size=5]I could not and still cannot understand the wave of hysteria that broke across this country when she died,a tragic accident of course (or was it?) but the wailing,weeping,flower throwing mass hysteria all felt a bit odd to me,she wasn't exactly pure as the driven snow,it's rumoured that when asked if she had ever been unfaithful to Charles she said 'Only once......with the Brigade of Guards'.[/size]
[size=5]So I might be in the Tower next week![/size]
[size=5]I remain a Royalist at heart and glad that we have a constitutional monarchy that has been the heart of a United Kingdom and long may it continue.[/size]

[ScooterMcTavish]

As a commonwealth country, the Queen is titularly our head of state. However, much like Great Britain, it is more of a symbolic role.

Parliament and the House of Commons really runs the show.

And I never understood the Diana thing either. Rest her soul, and she did do lots of charity work, but the press was all ready to canonize her while vilifying the royal family. Like everything in life, the truth is somewhere in the middle.

I was at the Tower while in London, and it seems more posh than it likely was 300 years ago.

[birly-shirly]

[quote name='okesa' timestamp='1382441073' post='8039043']
[size=5][..][/size][size=5]at least his domestic situation is more settled with Camilla rather than the loony that he was first married to.[/size]
[size=5]I could not and still cannot understand the wave of hysteria that broke across this country when she died,a tragic accident of course (or was it?) but the wailing,weeping,flower throwing mass hysteria all felt a bit odd to me,she wasn't exactly pure as the driven snow,it's rumoured that when asked if she had ever been unfaithful to Charles she said 'Only once......with the Brigade of Guards'.[...][/size]
[/quote]

aye - the hazards of marrying outside of the family...

[birly-shirly]

[quote name='ScooterMcTavish' timestamp='1382441820' post='8039079']
As a commonwealth country, the Queen is titularly our head of state. However, much like Great Britain, it is more of a symbolic role.

Parliament and the House of Commons really runs the show.
[/quote]

[I've just looked it up on Wikipedia and] I've always found it curious that you would have a head of state who doesn't get a mention in your national anthem. I don't find it so strange that a republic should have a depersonalised anthem - but a constitutional monarchy? Are you guys serious?

Whilst I'm in the learning frame of mind - do you have an aristocracy too? Lords and ladies, dames and dukes and stuff?

And what do you do with unwanted wildlife? Do you just shoot them? Or do you dress up and chase them all over the countryside on horseback to a bugle accompaniment?

[ScooterMcTavish]

LOL BS. Trying to figure out which are real questions, and which are facetious.

Anthem - As a young lad, we used to sing both 'O Canada' and 'God Save Our Queen' in the mornings. As our country became less British in character (can't buy drippings or Club bars here in 30 years), somewhere this disappeared. At least we still sing it at Legion occasions,

Gentry - Nope. No traditional landowners here that need to protect their interests against the commoners. The only aristocracy is the artificial one, created by how much money you have.

Unwanted wildlife - No coursing the hounds. More than likely a hunter will hop on his ATV or snowmobile, drive into the bush, spray female deer synthetic estrus all over, then shoot the poor horny buck that shows up, Said buck now becomes food and decorative horns.

[birly-shirly]

Cheers Scooter. My questions weren't ENTIRELY serious - but my curiosity is, if that makes sense?

Interesting that you think that Canada has become less British over the years. Is that creeping Americanisation (people worry about that here too!), or a rising tide of gallic consciousness? The latter wouldn't be a bad thing, at least in a culinary sense.

I'm 41 years old and I've seen, but never bought, dripping. Some would say that's just me being a contrarian scot. Club biscuits however remain one of life's pleasures.

Canadian style hunting sounds no less ritualised, or erotically-charged, than the British equivalent. One wonders how Jilly Cooper goes down round your parts...[since no conversation about "Britishness" would be complete without a little bit of Benny Hill style innuendo]

[oldschoolrocker]

Now BS,
You know there is no such thing as "creeping" Americanization. The cowboy in us Colonials demand we stomp. Long live The Duke. John Wayne that is.

[ScooterMcTavish]

LOL BS. I knew your questions weren't entirely serious, but I had to at least try and educate.

Growing up, Canada was still a very British country, as in many cases:
- Many of our immigrant ancestors were still alive, or were only 1 generation Canadian
- Many family foods and traditions came from these British traditions
- There was the generation who remembered World War II, and how we served for King, country, and Commonwealth when called upon
- Many of the dominant churches (other than Catholic) were British Protestant ones (Anglican, United)
- When the wave of Eastern Europeans came to Canada in the early 1900s, many of them assimilated into the dominant British culture

And there was still lots of British stuff around when I was a lad. Marks & Spencer had stores across Canada, Club bars could be bought at the local market, and Rountree chocolate was a favourite.

The biggest change to me is the mix in immigrants over the last 40 years. The real ground breakers were the Filipinos, followed by East Indians, people from the Carribean, then Chinese/Hong Kong immigrants. This immigration trend continues with people coming to Canada from the Middle East, and Africa.

In the 1940's, Canada was approximately 50% British, 30% French, 2% Visible Minority, and 18% Other (mostly mixed European; German, Polish, Belgian, Dutch, Italian, and Ukranian). Easy to see why the British culture was the dominant one, especially as it assimilated (at least societally if not traditionally) the other European immigrants. However, the mix of low birthrates in the Europeans who settled here, and the increase in immigration continues to change Canada's demographic.

Within the next decade or so, the Visible Minority in Canada is expected to be 1/3rd of the population, and the majority in both Vancouver and Toronto. Unlike the U.S. where people become assimilated (they are no longer _______, they are now "American", assuming the culture, mores and tropes), Canada has pursued a "mosaic" or multicultural approach. I think you would find this very similar to how the U.K. handles their immigrants. And as much as this approach allows people to retain their cultural traditions, I have found personally that the second and third generation immigrants adapt to the cultural "norms" of society, though these norms are a constantly shifting target. Sure we have some British traditions, but many of the these are disappearing. And the "norms" do seem to be becoming more Americanized, as the ever-present US cultural exports are what is adopted by many of the immigrants, not quiet Canadian British traditions.

Although there has been some creeping Americanization, we do still hold to "commonwealth" principles in Canada, where I've observed the U.S. is the land of the "individual". The issues over guns and health care provide a great contrast in "individual" vs. "commonwealth" rights.

The right of the individual in the US to bear arms is considered more valuable than the overall security of society. In Canada, people are willing to give up this individual right (my right to carry a handgun) for the common good (less guns = less people getting shot).

Healthcare is similar - as an individual in the US, I will have worked hard for my money. Why should I give it to a bunch of freeloaders who could be working, just so they can have free health care? In Canada, we instead believe that the loss of some individual wealth (taxes) for the common good (universal healthcare) is a fair exchange. Heck, we never know when we might need it ourselves.

The funny part is as that protecting individual rights sometimes costs society more on the whole. For example, the US spends more per capita on health care than any other nation on Earth, including Canada (about 60% higher per person if memory serves correct). I'm not saying this is right or wrong, more just highlighting how strongly the US believes in and protects individual rights.

No Gallic uprising happening - in fact, the Quebec government continues to pass laws to help protect French-Canadian culture and the French language, to the point of actually stepping on the language rights of English speaking people in the province. They are in worse shape in retaining their culture, as after rebelling against Catholicism in the 60's, the birth rate dropped incredibly low (you get paid to have babies in Quebec), and immigrants are coming from places like Haiti and French speaking African nations. I would debate the cuisine part as well, as in my numerous travels to Quebec, despite the beauty and care in the meal laid out in front of me, I always finished each meal wanting some medium rare beef off the rib, a wad of mash with gravy, and a Yorkshire pudding (why I need drippings).

And one needs to buy drippings if they desire to make proper Yorkshire Pudding, yet the cut of beef in the oven is a bit lean. The only way I make Yorkshire Pudding now is if I am making a standing rib roast which has a nice cap of fat on it, and I can take drippings from the roast.

I expect a Scot to be contrarian. My wife is 1/4 Scot, and 1/4 of my ancestry is Scot via Ireland, and we're both stubborn and contrarian.

[okesa]

[size=5]Beef dripping on toast........[/size]

[birly-shirly]

[quote name='ScooterMcTavish' timestamp='1382455343' post='8040017']
[...]
I expect a Scot to be contrarian. My wife is 1/4 Scot, and 1/4 of my ancestry is Scot via Ireland, and we're both stubborn and contrarian.
[/quote]

Steven Pinker, the Harvard psychologist, wrote a book about how the Scots and Irish exported stubbornness, feuding and premature retaliation to the USA.

If that's true, I think the pacifists must have stayed home...

[okesa]

[size=5]Don't be so modest,it wasn't just to the USA but the entire World![/size]
[size=5]Not only are the Scots the most widely (and wildly) travelled nation but also the best educated I have ever met.[/size]

[birly-shirly]

Far too kind, Okesa!

I will admit - we're conspicuous travellers. It's a rare Scot abroad who isn't sporting tartan and spouting Burns and Billy Connolly.

We're also a small population in a big country - which makes it easier to hide our idiots.

[okesa]

[size=5]Made me smile,I sent some clubs to a guy who lived near Inverness via Express24 delivery and asked the girl in the Bridlington Post Office if she was sure that they would arrive due to the distance,"No problem,Inverness is just above Edinburgh isn't it?".[/size]

[ScooterMcTavish]

[quote name='birly-shirly' timestamp='1382534920' post='8045051']
We're also a small population in a big country - which makes it easier to hide our idiots.
[/quote]

We're a smaller population in an even bigger country, which makes it even easier to hide our idiots.

Mind you, since something like 90% of the Canadian population lives within 100km of the US, we're not using the space to hide our idiots as effectively as we could (such as myself, who has been allowed to breed, and also won a computer!).

Actually B-S, most Scots I've met in Canada aren't sporting the tartan, and aren't quoting Robbie Burns or Braveheart, My ancestry is 1/4 Scottish via Ireland, while my wife is also 1/4 Scots. Seems that the main things we inherited were:
- Conservatism
- An affinity for sandwiches, including many variants of ham sandwich

I do also enjoy a wee dram (or five) every now and then, with Islay scotches and Talisker being a particular favourite. Even our Scottish grandmothers were known to be abstentious, but would still tipple a little fruit brandy to warm the innards occasionally.

So what makes Scotsman such good football managers? I'm sure David Moyes will come right eventually at Man U (though I like the lad, I loathe the club), and Sir Alex was one of (if not the best) of all time, though again, I loathed his club. And the first time around, Mr. Dalgleish was a wonderful manager (for a proper football club, I might add), especially considering his success, and the trauma Hillsboro inflicted upon the club.

[okesa]

[size=5]I think it's because a lot of them had hard upbringings and won't take crap from the spoiled babies that they manage,you have forgotten Bill Shankly and possibly the greatest manager of all time Sir Matt Busby.[/size]
[size=5]Best quote combining footie managers and golf was from my pal and golf pro John "The Mighty" Seymour who after I'd told him of yet another iron set purchased said;"You've had more clubs than Tommy Docherty".[/size]
[size=5]Seymour is a Coventry lad and ardent Sky Blues fan and was often on the receiving end of jokes like;[/size]
[size=5]'They caught some fans climbing the wall at City's ground.......made them go back and watch the end of the game'[/size]
[size=5]'Coventry manager arrested after breaking into a tobacconists......claimed he was desperate for some Players'[/size]
[size=5]'Braveheart'.....whatever he might be,Mel Gibson is no historian and his view of Wallace was shallow and patronising and only lightly touched on the political turmoil in Scotland which was hugely complicated,I found his death scene quite hilarious,he looked as though he was dropping off for 40 winks,hardly consistent with a man who is being hanged,drawn and quartered,which frankly is what Mel Gibson deserved for his film.[/size]
[size=5]I guess that's Hollywood and why I no longer go to the cinema 'The Flicks' as we used to call it;just as the Golden Age of golf has passed,so it is with film making and stars,who is there now to compare to Burt Lancaster,Kirk Douglas,James Stewart,Bogart and Bacall,the 'Duke',Gene Kelly,the list goes on and on of actors and actresses who were real stars and who learned their trade the hard way,much the same as Hogan,Nelson,Snead and Sarazen did (not forgetting Uncle Toney....read his autobiography Scooter,he was amazing!).[/size]
[size=5]I was brought up on b&w films and still watch them now,Henry Fonda in 'My Darling Clementine' and 'Fort Apache',I just love those John Ford films which convey more atmosphere than any modern film with colour and cgi and are also always full of the 'right' things like honesty,duty,honour,respect,self-sacrifice,the old virtues that seem to be slowly disappearing in life and golf.[/size]

[ScooterMcTavish]

Sorry Okesa,

Didn't mean to denigrate Mr. Shankly - in fact I almost had my wife convinced to make this our second daughter's middle name. I wasn't able to seal the deal, but I had her about 49% there.

Enjoy the CC reference - when Liverpool began their renaissance (sort of....just win the bloody league, OK?), much of this was driven by some great lads including Gary McAllister, one of the best ever to put on the Sky Blues' jersey.

Too bad to hear about Ian Holloway resigning at Palace - good working class team in a good working class neighborhood. Club was probably better served being in the Championship versus the Premiership.

I wondered what your reaction to the Braveheart mention would be, and I'm not surprised. Hollywood is still making good movies, but you need to look a little harder for them now. Films like "American History X" and "Three Kings" are an excellent modern version of cinema. For "hero" movies, both the "Dark Night" and the "Iron Man" trilogies were actually quite good. Much more moral gravitas to them other than just blowing up stuff. In fact, I found "Batman Begins" to have quite the impact to it - much more than its heavily lauded sequel. And both really do examine the value of self versus the common good, and the importance of motivations in deciding why one's actions are "good". Not for all tastes, but as a boy who grew up reading comics, I found both series to be quite good.

Unfortunately, I wonder how many of these cinematic "heroes" of yesterday would stand up to the challenge and scrutiny of today's 24/7 media. Much like professional athletes, the wall between "them" and "us" that used to give them some mystique has been completely torn down. There's really no such thing as "Stars" anymore, as soon is someone is built up, they're torn down. Of, if there's nothing to tear them down about, then we cynically give in to the impulse to believe that they're too "perfect". We live in the era of TMZ, and if there weren't consumers for this garbage, then it wouldn't be produced.

It's funny - I wonder how much our conversation would have sounded like the conversation of two people our age in the early 70's, talking about "hippy" actors like Henry Fonda and Dennis Hopper in that horrible film "Easy Rider", or the "pornographic exhibitionism" of "A Clockwork Orange", or the "blasphemy" of Monty Python's "The Life of Brian".

Unfortunately, times change, and we become nostalgic for the things that used to seem "normal" that now seem like the aberrations.

[oldschoolrocker]

All of this cinema chat and nothing about Hitchcock?

[birly-shirly]

[quote name='ScooterMcTavish' timestamp='1383144333' post='8078332'] [quote name='birly-shirly' timestamp='1382534920' post='8045051'] We're also a small population in a big country - which makes it easier to hide our idiots. [/quote] We're a smaller population in an even bigger country, which makes it even easier to hide our idiots. Mind you, since something like 90% of the Canadian population lives within 100km of the US, we're not using the space to hide our idiots as effectively as we could [/quote]

Are you trying to goad me into saying something politically incorrect Scooter? There's low hanging fruit, and then there's windfall...;-)

[quote name='ScooterMcTavish' timestamp='1383144333' post='8078332']Actually B-S, most Scots I've met in Canada aren't sporting the tartan, and aren't quoting Robbie Burns or Braveheart, My ancestry is 1/4 Scottish via Ireland, while my wife is also 1/4 Scots. Seems that the main things we inherited were: - Conservatism - An affinity for sandwiches, including many variants of ham sandwich I do also enjoy a wee dram (or five) every now and then, with Islay scotches and Talisker being a particular favourite. Even our Scottish grandmothers were known to be abstentious, but would still tipple a little fruit brandy to warm the innards occasionally. So what makes Scotsman such good football managers? I'm sure David Moyes will come right eventually at Man U (though I like the lad, I loathe the club), and Sir Alex was one of (if not the best) of all time, though again, I loathed his club. And the first time around, Mr. Dalgleish was a wonderful manager (for a proper football club, I might add), especially considering his success, and the trauma Hillsboro inflicted upon the club. [/quote]

Interesting stuff Scooter. Dunno' where the conservatism comes from. Socially conservative maybe - but there are more political parties in Scotland now than there are elected Conservative MPs. We'll not get into the whys and wherefores of that on a golf site though, eh?

The fitba' gaffers are an odd phenomenon - a bit like Kenyan runners, no? ;-)

It's just a shame that they seem to need to work abroad (which, in a footballing sense, includes England of course) to match resources to their ability. Still, it's a good job that we can still export managers, since we haven't sent a team abroad for a major championship in years.

What's your thing with Man U? Anything other than that you're a Liverpool fan? I know the fans are an easy target (just ask Roy Keane) - but the club itself?

King Kenny has always seemed to me like a stand-up guy. He also seems to have the dry wit that goes right over the heads of many sports writers and gains him no credit with the media. A prototype for Andy Murray, but perhaps not Colin Montgomery, IMHO.

[okesa]

[size=5]I think that was Peter Fonda....and Jack Nicholson of course who I thought over-rated except for 'Chinatown'.[/size]
[size=5]Watching some of those films again,'Straw Dogs','The Devils' and such,they are all pretty limp and lacking in substance other than a ball-busting effort to cause offence,which they did by means of gratuitous nudity and violence which as an hormonal teenager I found somewhat exciting but was also able to view objectively as being brought up and educated in Stratford-upon-Avon (named after some place in Ontario LOL!) I was able to see magnificent performances from real stars of theatre.First experience was Christopher Plummer as Richard III in 1963 when I was 11 and was fortunate enough to attend many performances at the RST in following years.[/size]
[size=5]The old Hollywood stars were stars because they had the ability to hold and enthrall an audience,their private lives were scrutinised at the time,Rock Hudson was famously 'gay',which would have upset my mum if she had been told!The rather dark novels of James Ellroy give great insights into the '50's and '60's of Hollywood,Hoover and the Kennedy clan.[/size]
[size=5]John Wayne was my childhood hero,he may have been slightly right-wing but even as I grew older I believed that he expressed positive virtues in his films,things that have become 'old-fashioned',if you had to pick between the 'Duke' or Tiger as an example to follow which would you choose?[/size]

[okesa]

[size=5]'Archie...Archie.....AAAAAAArchie!'.......1978 vs Holland!Remember?[/size]

[SurfinTurf]

[quote name='oldschoolrocker' timestamp='1383162621' post='8079798']
All of this cinema chat and nothing about Hitchcock?
[/quote]

I took my young wife to see "The Birds". Told her it was a remake of "Sleepless in Seattle".

[oldschoolrocker]

And was she "sleepless" after watching the film Prime Rib & Lobster? Oops, I mean Surf n turf.

[Ironmaster Oddities]

[quote name='oldschoolrocker' timestamp='1383162621' post='8079798']
All of this cinema chat and nothing about Hitchcock?
[/quote]

And what of the truly great dramatic actors of the last century?
W.C. Fields in Hamlet."AhhhYesss. There is something decomposing in Scandinavia." and "To be or not to be? Reminds me of the time I was in Afghanistan. Lost our cork screw and ...."
Carol Burnett,"What, will these hands ne'er be clean? Mac! Where is my Lava Soap?"
George Burns and Gracie Allen.."Romeo, Romeo. wherefore art though, my Romeo...I am in the bushes. The trellis broke."

[teevons]

WC Fields, great memories,my older brother turned me on to him in the late 50's, exclaiming "Godfrey Daniel !!
Would love to see a biography done on WC, Maybe Robin Williams playing him??

[SurfinTurf]

[quote name='oldschoolrocker' timestamp='1383176137' post='8080770']
And was she "sleepless" after watching the film Prime Rib & Lobster? Oops, I mean Surf n turf.
[/quote]

It was a rather cruel joke on my part.

But we live in Pacific Grove and I understand that parts of the movie were filmed here.

We walked to the theatre and back. Seagulls stared us down then whole way.

I couldn't resist.

[okesa]

[size=5]You must have had a classical education Uncle Bob,of course most people today think of either Thomas Bjorn or Scooby-Doo when referring to the Prince of Danes,it was also one of my mum's favourite answers when replying to the question of what was for supper"Prince of Denmark" being an omelette.[/size]

[SurfinTurf]

[quote name='okesa' timestamp='1383203153' post='8082320']
[size=5]You must have had a classical education Uncle Bob,of course most people today think of either Thomas Bjorn or Scooby-Doo when referring to the Prince of Danes,it was also one of my mum's favourite answers when replying to the question of what was for supper"Prince of Denmark" being an omelette.[/size]
[/quote]

Is this an allusion beyond Shakespeare?

Sorry, I'm a bit dense.

But I do like omelette's.

[okesa]

[size=5]It appears that my recent attempts at humour have more in common with pancakes than anything else,so in explanation my earlier joke about Prince Charles wearing a fur hat on a hot day was in response to the Queen saying "Bridlington?Wear the fox hat" i.e "Where the f***s that" and my mum's joke was a play on words 'Omelette/Hamlet Prince of Denmark',sorry but it's hard to express a Warwickshire accent in print![/size]

[Ironmaster Oddities]

[quote name='okesa' timestamp='1383214104' post='8082478']
[size=5]It appears that my recent attempts at humour have more in common with pancakes than anything else,so in explanation my earlier joke about Prince Charles wearing a fur hat on a hot day was in response to the Queen saying "Bridlington?Wear the fox hat" i.e "Where the f***s that" and my mum's joke was a play on words 'Omelette/Hamlet Prince of Denmark',sorry but it's hard to express a Warwickshire accent in print![/size]
[/quote]

No problem, Okessa. The accent play wasn't lost on all of us. In the States we can use Ham'let as a contraction for a ham omelette. I am on my way to breakfast as we speak. I'll give it a try. I'm sure the Prince of Denmark part will soar way over the waitress's head. But Ham 'let may get caught.

[ScooterMcTavish]

Yes, I have eaten an egg hamlet on many an occasion.