The NBA basketball thread 2013-2014

[mnplayer]

[quote name='scratchswinger' timestamp='1400460873' post='9320703']
It's crazy that KL has never made the playoffs and is widely thought of as an elite player. Have his teams really been that bad?
[/quote]

Yup, except the past couple of seasons since we've had Rubio. Ever since Rubio came over from Spain we've been pretty decent. A mix of injuries and underperforming, but besides the past 3 years we've been terrible. You've got to look at the draft picks though, Johnny Flynn, Wes Johnson, Randy Foy, Derrick Williams, to name a few. All while passing on Brandon Roy, Steph Curry, Lawson(actually trading him away), drafted and traded away Parsons. Derrick Williams was probably the best player we drafted besides Rubio since Love has been here, no real talent coming in and we started Darko for a couple of years so that''s saying something.

[baseballfrk8998]

[quote name='scratchswinger' timestamp='1400460873' post='9320703']
It's crazy that KL has never made the playoffs and is widely thought of as an elite player. Have his teams really been that bad?
[/quote]

Yes.

Unless you don't consider 26-12-5 elite while shooting a good percentage from the floor (and 3).

He's not LeBron elite, obviously, but he's some kind of player and he's only 25.

[tocino]

[quote name='baseballfrk8998' timestamp='1400511062' post='9323631']
[quote name='scratchswinger' timestamp='1400460873' post='9320703']
It's crazy that KL has never made the playoffs and is widely thought of as an elite player. Have his teams really been that bad?
[/quote]

Yes.

Unless you don't consider 26-12-5 elite while shooting a good percentage from the floor (and 3).

He's not LeBron elite, obviously, but he's some kind of player and he's only 25.
[/quote]

If there were several tiers of elite, then you would have Lebron and Durrant as tier 1, players like CP3, Blake Griffin, Paul George, etc... as Tier 2, then I would fit Kevin Love firmly in the Tier 2 of elite guys.

I feel really bad for the Twolves, they have no chance of re-signing him and there's also no chance of getting anything remotely close to Love's value in return on a trade (they are not going to be able to get a Tier 2 guy unless they somehow convice another franchise to send them a top 3 pick in this year's draft)

[MtlJeff]

[quote name='mnplayer' timestamp='1400462139' post='9320827']
[quote name='scratchswinger' timestamp='1400460873' post='9320703']
It's crazy that KL has never made the playoffs and is widely thought of as an elite player. Have his teams really been that bad?
[/quote]

Yup, except the past couple of seasons since we've had Rubio. Ever since Rubio came over from Spain we've been pretty decent. A mix of injuries and underperforming, but besides the past 3 years we've been terrible. You've got to look at the draft picks though, Johnny Flynn, Wes Johnson, Randy Foy, Derrick Williams, to name a few. All while passing on Brandon Roy, Steph Curry, Lawson(actually trading him away), drafted and traded away Parsons. Derrick Williams was probably the best player we drafted besides Rubio since Love has been here, no real talent coming in and we started Darko for a couple of years so that''s saying something.
[/quote]

The Wolves have drafted terribly all right. I agree that you can't hold it against Love. He is a great player but he's not Lebron James or Kevin Durant. He can absolutely be the cornerstone of a legit contender but he needs help, much in the way a guy like Chris Paul does.

It would be interesting if he leaked that he was interested in Phoenix. So far just Golden State and Chicago have been mentioned. Phoenix can trump anyone with their amount of draft picks and Alex Len.

They could give up two #1's , Alex Len and maybe a second rounder next year or something. Given how deep this year's draft is that may be enticing

[mnplayer]

I've read a couple of articles about Phoenix but all of them have had Phoenix giving up Dragic or Bledsoe, which I don't see happening. Len won't help though, Pek is signed to a huge deal and Dieng looked really good at the end of last year. I'm hoping that the Lakers get into the top 3 and swap Love for the pick + maybe a player. I'd love Dragic + a pick which I've seen in a couple of articles but I don't see that happening in a million years. I won't be happy with anything less than a player + pick or a top 3 pick, can't come out of this without getting a good player that can play right away.

[MtlJeff]

Yes Dragic or Bledsoe i would imagine are untouchable, even for Love. I wouldn't want him unless you are pairing him with those guys anyway.

The Wolves could decide to blow things up, take Len and the picks from Phoenix, trade Pekovic for young players or maybe a first rounder like Washington gave up for Gortat, and end up with 3-4 first rounders and just hope they draft well. I don't see them getting anything close to equal value unless Love names 4-5 teams as potential suitors where he would resign, to create competitive offers. If the teams are just Chicago / GSW, it dissuades them from making big offers, especially if they think they can sign him anyway. Love is not an idiot, i'm sure he's aware playing with Curry would be absolutely lethal, and if he becomes a FA he could just sign there anyway without them having to give up Thompson (they would likely need to pay the luxury tax for 1 season until Lee expires, which i'm sure Joe Lacob would do)

The Carmelo situation was similar because he only named Brooklyn and NY as teams of interest, and in retrospect the Knicks looked dumb for giving up Gallo/Chandler/Mozgov/Felton (especially Gallo, who before injuries was a deadly stretch 4) for a guy who likely would have signed there anyway. And the Nuggets have been better then the Knicks since the trade. Essentially the trade was a failure for NY because they gave up everyone they should have surrounded Carmelo with. I don't see GSW or Chicago making that same mistake

[tocino]

[quote name='MtlJeff' timestamp='1400552458' post='9328413']
Yes Dragic or Bledsoe i would imagine are untouchable, even for Love. I wouldn't want him unless you are pairing him with those guys anyway.

The Wolves could decide to blow things up, take Len and the picks from Phoenix, trade Pekovic for young players or maybe a first rounder like Washington gave up for Gortat, and end up with 3-4 first rounders and just hope they draft well. I don't see them getting anything close to equal value unless Love names 4-5 teams as potential suitors where he would resign, to create competitive offers. If the teams are just Chicago / GSW, it dissuades them from making big offers, especially if they think they can sign him anyway. Love is not an idiot, i'm sure he's aware playing with Curry would be absolutely lethal, and if he becomes a FA he could just sign there anyway without them having to give up Thompson (they would likely need to pay the luxury tax for 1 season until Lee expires, which i'm sure Joe Lacob would do)

The Carmelo situation was similar because he only named Brooklyn and NY as teams of interest, and in retrospect the Knicks looked dumb for giving up Gallo/Chandler/Mozgov/Felton (especially Gallo, who before injuries was a deadly stretch 4) for a guy who likely would have signed there anyway. And the Nuggets have been better then the Knicks since the trade. Essentially the trade was a failure for NY because they gave up everyone they should have surrounded Carmelo with. I don't see GSW or Chicago making that same mistake
[/quote]

A curry/love pick and roll would be absolutely devastating! If you show early, love will be open for a three, you can't double steph after the screen or love will be open again, if the defender slips the screen (I won't even bring up what would happen if a defender goes behind the screen), curry is a good enough ball handler to drive to the hole, any help by anyone else will spring a guard/forward for an open 3 or a lob to a big. My mouth is salivating with all of the offensive options that would be available if he went to the warriors... Crazy...

[RJRJRJ]

[quote name='MtlJeff' timestamp='1400546798' post='9327515']
[quote name='mnplayer' timestamp='1400462139' post='9320827']
[quote name='scratchswinger' timestamp='1400460873' post='9320703']
It's crazy that KL has never made the playoffs and is widely thought of as an elite player. Have his teams really been that bad?
[/quote]

Yup, except the past couple of seasons since we've had Rubio. Ever since Rubio came over from Spain we've been pretty decent. A mix of injuries and underperforming, but besides the past 3 years we've been terrible. You've got to look at the draft picks though, Johnny Flynn, Wes Johnson, Randy Foy, Derrick Williams, to name a few. All while passing on Brandon Roy, Steph Curry, Lawson(actually trading him away), drafted and traded away Parsons. Derrick Williams was probably the best player we drafted besides Rubio since Love has been here, no real talent coming in and we started Darko for a couple of years so that''s saying something.
[/quote]

The Wolves have drafted terribly all right. I agree that you can't hold it against Love. He is a great player but he's not Lebron James or Kevin Durant. He can absolutely be the cornerstone of a legit contender but he needs help, much in the way a guy like Chris Paul does.

It would be interesting if he leaked that he was interested in Phoenix. So far just Golden State and Chicago have been mentioned. Phoenix can trump anyone with their amount of draft picks and Alex Len.

They could give up two #1's , Alex Len and maybe a second rounder next year or something. Given how deep this year's draft is that may be enticing
[/quote]

Do you think he can actually be a cornerstone though? I know his numbers are outrageous, but theres so much more to it than that. I can see him as a complementary player on a championship team. They were talking about it on the radio today here with the new rumors, and the Lakers pick could actually be enough to get him. Hopefully we can get a top 3 in the lottery tomorrow and see what we can do. Personally, its a stretch, but the best case scenario would be a top 3 lakers pick and then grab Love in FA after next season (which he WILL reach, no matter which team he signs with because he'll get more money). Just a dream, but not completely out of the realm of possibility.

[scratchswinger]

Lottery is rigged, Lakers get the #1 pick. No need to trade it, the players will be coming to us in a year or two. Lakers will win another title before OKC or LAC win a title.

[RJRJRJ]

.

[baseballfrk8998]

[quote name='scratchswinger' timestamp='1400563459' post='9329505']
Lottery is rigged, Lakers get the #1 pick. No need to trade it, the players will be coming to us in a year or two. Lakers will win another title before OKC or LAC win a title.
[/quote]

I laughed. Well played sir, well played.

[mnplayer]

[quote name='RJRJRJ' timestamp='1400561701' post='9329423']
[quote name='MtlJeff' timestamp='1400546798' post='9327515']
[quote name='mnplayer' timestamp='1400462139' post='9320827']
[quote name='scratchswinger' timestamp='1400460873' post='9320703']
It's crazy that KL has never made the playoffs and is widely thought of as an elite player. Have his teams really been that bad?
[/quote]

Yup, except the past couple of seasons since we've had Rubio. Ever since Rubio came over from Spain we've been pretty decent. A mix of injuries and underperforming, but besides the past 3 years we've been terrible. You've got to look at the draft picks though, Johnny Flynn, Wes Johnson, Randy Foy, Derrick Williams, to name a few. All while passing on Brandon Roy, Steph Curry, Lawson(actually trading him away), drafted and traded away Parsons. Derrick Williams was probably the best player we drafted besides Rubio since Love has been here, no real talent coming in and we started Darko for a couple of years so that''s saying something.
[/quote]

The Wolves have drafted terribly all right. I agree that you can't hold it against Love. He is a great player but he's not Lebron James or Kevin Durant. He can absolutely be the cornerstone of a legit contender but he needs help, much in the way a guy like Chris Paul does.

It would be interesting if he leaked that he was interested in Phoenix. So far just Golden State and Chicago have been mentioned. Phoenix can trump anyone with their amount of draft picks and Alex Len.

They could give up two #1's , Alex Len and maybe a second rounder next year or something. Given how deep this year's draft is that may be enticing
[/quote]

Do you think he can actually be a cornerstone though? I know his numbers are outrageous, but theres so much more to it than that. I can see him as a complementary player on a championship team. They were talking about it on the radio today here with the new rumors, and the Lakers pick could actually be enough to get him. Hopefully we can get a top 3 in the lottery tomorrow and see what we can do. Personally, its a stretch, but the best case scenario would be a top 3 lakers pick and then grab Love in FA after next season (which he WILL reach, no matter which team he signs with because he'll get more money). Just a dream, but not completely out of the realm of possibility.
[/quote]

I think he'll make it to free agency if he isn't convinced that he can win where he is at the end of the year, whether that's in MN or somewhere else we'll see. You have to look at why the teams were bad though, the teams didn't suck because of him. I'm going to refrain from going into a long spiel, but bottom line is the teams have been horrible. The past three years the teams were good, but everyone got injured. Except for this year when we just got stuck in the best conference with a bunch of really good teams, and lost a bunch of close games. What's really sad is that we could've had the Love/Curry pick & roll, but Johnny Flynn looked the much better prospect.

[baseballfrk8998]

Another #1 pick for Cleveland. Wow.

[MtlJeff]

[quote name='scratchswinger' timestamp='1400563459' post='9329505']
Lottery is rigged, Lakers get the #1 pick. No need to trade it, the players will be coming to us in a year or two. Lakers will win another title before OKC or LAC win a title.
[/quote]

Only if they get a top 5 talent like Blake Griffin

[MtlJeff]

[quote name='RJRJRJ' timestamp='1400561701' post='9329423']
[quote name='MtlJeff' timestamp='1400546798' post='9327515']
[quote name='mnplayer' timestamp='1400462139' post='9320827']
[quote name='scratchswinger' timestamp='1400460873' post='9320703']
It's crazy that KL has never made the playoffs and is widely thought of as an elite player. Have his teams really been that bad?
[/quote]

Yup, except the past couple of seasons since we've had Rubio. Ever since Rubio came over from Spain we've been pretty decent. A mix of injuries and underperforming, but besides the past 3 years we've been terrible. You've got to look at the draft picks though, Johnny Flynn, Wes Johnson, Randy Foy, Derrick Williams, to name a few. All while passing on Brandon Roy, Steph Curry, Lawson(actually trading him away), drafted and traded away Parsons. Derrick Williams was probably the best player we drafted besides Rubio since Love has been here, no real talent coming in and we started Darko for a couple of years so that''s saying something.
[/quote]

The Wolves have drafted terribly all right. I agree that you can't hold it against Love. He is a great player but he's not Lebron James or Kevin Durant. He can absolutely be the cornerstone of a legit contender but he needs help, much in the way a guy like Chris Paul does.

It would be interesting if he leaked that he was interested in Phoenix. So far just Golden State and Chicago have been mentioned. Phoenix can trump anyone with their amount of draft picks and Alex Len.

They could give up two #1's , Alex Len and maybe a second rounder next year or something. Given how deep this year's draft is that may be enticing
[/quote]

Do you think he can actually be a cornerstone though? I know his numbers are outrageous, but theres so much more to it than that. I can see him as a complementary player on a championship team. They were talking about it on the radio today here with the new rumors, and the Lakers pick could actually be enough to get him. Hopefully we can get a top 3 in the lottery tomorrow and see what we can do. Personally, its a stretch, but the best case scenario would be a top 3 lakers pick and then grab Love in FA after next season (which he WILL reach, no matter which team he signs with because he'll get more money). Just a dream, but not completely out of the realm of possibility.
[/quote]

I doubt the Lakers would give up too much for him without a guaranteed extension, especially after the Dwight-mare. And with the team they have i doubt Love would assure them of that. There's so much talk that he and Westbrook are just going to go to LA together. They aren't free agents at the same time, and why Love would think playing with Kobe and maybe a draft pick like Dante Exum is some sure path to the title i'm not sure.

I don't think there's any loyalty to hometowns, current teams etc....if there was Lebron would be in Cleveland. Love will likely go somewhere he can be paired with a young superstar(s). Either by trade or by leaving as a free agent the way Dwight did, and the way Carmelo might

If i was the Wolves i would trade him for the best package i could get. GM's are scared to do that because they get crushed in the media (see Bill Simmons obsession with trashing OKC for the James Haren trade). But the truth is they'll get fired anyway if they get nothing in return

If Love says Chicago/GSW are the only options , they need to play them off each other, get the best package they can and call it a day.

And yeah i do think he can be the best player on a contender, as long as you surround him with capable defensive guys , especially a center who can block shots. I still think Thompson/Lee makes sense for both teams. Curry/Iguodala/Barnes/Love/Bogut is a contending team

[billyhandsomeface]

What are the odds of the Spurs drafting someone I have actually heard of? Or whose name I can pronounce?

[MtlJeff]

And i'm totally OK with Cleveland getting the top pick, i know it's 2 in a row. But at least they TRIED to win this year. Better then Philly getting it after the embarassment of a season they treated us to

Obviously they need to pick Embiid or Wiggins, you know, someone who might actually attempt to play defense, which might inspire other players on their team to play defense

Which means of course, they will pick Jabari Parker, and he, Irving and Waiters will one day all murder each other over who gets more shots. Probably while the other team has possession of the ball, leading an easy layup

[MtlJeff]

[quote name='billyhandsomeface' timestamp='1400635032' post='9335871']
What are the odds of the Spurs drafting someone I have actually heard of?
[/quote]

Are you familiar with people from Europe? If so, you will have heard of them. If not, then no. Unless Kawhi Leonard has a brother named like Kawho Leonard or something

[billyhandsomeface]

[quote name='MtlJeff' timestamp='1400635147' post='9335881']
[quote name='billyhandsomeface' timestamp='1400635032' post='9335871']
What are the odds of the Spurs drafting someone I have actually heard of?
[/quote]

Are you familiar with people from Europe? If so, you will have heard of them. If not, then no. Unless Kawhi Leonard has a brother named like Kawho Leonard or something
[/quote]

Nope. Only NCAA basketball.

[baseballfrk8998]

[quote name='MtlJeff' timestamp='1400634255' post='9335767']
[quote name='scratchswinger' timestamp='1400563459' post='9329505']
Lottery is rigged, Lakers get the #1 pick. No need to trade it, the players will be coming to us in a year or two. Lakers will win another title before OKC or LAC win a title.
[/quote]

Only if they get a top 5 talent like Blake Griffin
[/quote]

[mnplayer]

Anyone else think there's a chance Cleveland trades their pick for Love or am I delusional?

[MtlJeff]

[quote name='mnplayer' timestamp='1400636107' post='9336011']
Anyone else think there's a chance Cleveland trades their pick for Love or am I delusional?
[/quote]

It's an interesting scenario because they could make a great offer. Say, the #1 pick plus Dion Waiters and Tristan Thompson (or Anthony Bennett, who i actually believe will be better then people think, better the Thompson)

But i don't think Love will guarantee a re-sign there. Their owner wants to win now and is a risk taker, but that's a huge gamble. Kyrie irving is injury prone, you make that trade and Irving goes down for 25 games. Maybe you miss the playoffs, lose Love and 3 lottery picks in the process

don't see it happening. But if i'm the Wolves i think that's a better deal, for sure

[mnplayer]

I would even take just the #1 pick, though I'm not sure if that trade can go down without a player because of the cap. I don't see any offer coming along that includes anything as good as Wiggins or Parker, which is basically what the pick would be.

[MtlJeff]

you know, Serge Ibaka, Jeremy Lamb and the 21st Pick in the draft (from Dallas) would work.....

Reunite Kevin Love with Russell Westbrook.

They wouldn't even have to pay the luxury tax. And that team would be ummm....good

I mean, not sure they can compete with the Lakers, but they'd be close

[MtlJeff]

[quote name='mnplayer' timestamp='1400637098' post='9336135']
I would even take just the #1 pick, though I'm not sure if that trade can go down without a player because of the cap. I don't see any offer coming along that includes anything as good as Wiggins or Parker, which is basically what the pick would be.
[/quote]

You'd have to ask for Waiters, i mean why not, he and irving are mortal enemies. You could for sure get him

[TheGameChanger]

I Agree with Bill Simmons

[mnplayer]

[quote name='MtlJeff' timestamp='1400637514' post='9336193']
you know, Serge Ibaka, Jeremy Lamb and the 21st Pick in the draft (from Dallas) would work.....

Reunite Kevin Love with Russell Westbrook.

They wouldn't even have to pay the luxury tax. And that team would be ummm....good

I mean, not sure they can compete with the Lakers, but they'd be close
[/quote]

That would be a really fun team, but I don't know about trading your best defensive piece for someone who is notoriously mediocre/poor on defense. Getting Wiggins/Parker and Waiters for a player that is 100% leaving next year would be an absolute coup.

[MtlJeff]

[quote name='mnplayer' timestamp='1400638121' post='9336309']
[quote name='MtlJeff' timestamp='1400637514' post='9336193']
you know, Serge Ibaka, Jeremy Lamb and the 21st Pick in the draft (from Dallas) would work.....

Reunite Kevin Love with Russell Westbrook.

They wouldn't even have to pay the luxury tax. And that team would be ummm....good

I mean, not sure they can compete with the Lakers, but they'd be close
[/quote]

That would be a really fun team, but I don't know about trading your best defensive piece for someone who is notoriously mediocre/poor on defense. Getting Wiggins/Parker and Waiters for a player that is 100% leaving next year would be an absolute coup.
[/quote]

I don't think OKC would ever do it. But they are going to get blown out in this series and they'll probably be some talk about whether they have enough firepower to truly win. Ibaka is a great defender as you say, but Adams and Durant are solid, maybe you can re-sign Sefalosha. You could probably still be a top 10 defense.

[StarFleetGolfer]

If a team goes 10 years without making the playoffs when half the teams make it ever year, the team should be contracted.

[TheGameChanger]

Cleveland won't trade the #1 Pick this year. Minny will get something like this from Boston,Chicago,GSW

Boston- Sullinger,Bass,Anthony,Bogans,Pick 6, 2016 Nets first Rounder for Love and Bundinger
+ Bass,Anthony,Bogans all off the books after 2014/15 Season


GSW - Lee,Klay Thompson,Speights for Love and Martin
+ Would Klay resign in Minny? I'm not Sure

Chicago - Gibson, Rights to Nikola Mirotic, Pick 16 and 19, Mike Dunleavy Jnr, Brewer,Amundson,Kings Future 1st(Top 10 Protected Next Season)
+ Brewer,Amundson are fillers
+ Dunleavy Jnr Expires After next season
+ Mirotic is the best player in Europe would be a top 5 pick in this years draft IMO. However I'm not sure if He will come over if he is traded to Minny.

Boston has the best offer and If Love would sign a extension with Boston. Its a win for everyone.