Chippers - legality

I understand that chippers are irons and must conform to the rules as pertaining to irons. On the USGA site a few years back they showed various designs that were illegal. That is any chipper that had and adornment at the rear of the club to assist in alignment.

I now see on line and in golf shops several designs that would be illegal under those rules. Have these rules changed or are more golfers using illegal clubs.

Here is an example of what would have been illegal. Is this legal. These designs are alright for a putter but not an iron. Have I missed a rule change or rule interpretation?

http://www.pacificgolfclubs.com/custom-golf-chippers/rezults-chipper

http://www.usga.org/rules/equipment-rules.html#!rule-14621

Since they even have one with two faces, illegal for sanctioned play, I would likely question any of the others displayed too. I'm not totally certain what is meant by "plain in shape", but most of those look more like putters than irons, and since the rules for irons are far more restrictive than those for putters, I wouldn't be caught dead with one in my bag. Whenever I've been asked about this, I always just suggest that the player learns to chip with a regular club.

Several years ago I had a friend ask me, then ignore my suggestion and buy a chipper anyway. It was a legal design, but when he showed up to play our regular weekend game with 15 clubs, I asked him which one he was planning to leave behind. After thinking it over, he took the new chipper out and left it in the car. I gave him a couple of ideas on chipping with his 7 iron (I'm no instructor, but I was halfway decent at chipping at the time), and he took the new toy back for a refund the next day.

I did a bit of research about this recently and although I'm too lazy to reread the rules, my understanding at the time is that the club must play the same shaft length as where it would fit in your bag according to loft. So if you want a chipper that's 21 degrees it has to be longer than your 4i and shorter than a 5 wood. I would imagine that's within reason, as you could play a 19 degree hybrid and FW at different shaft lengths, like it can't be 3 inches short.

Obviously it can't be two-sided.

[quote name='Matt J' timestamp='1440890538' post='12231622']
I did a bit of research about this recently and although I'm too lazy to reread the rules, my understanding at the time is that the club must play the same shaft length as where it would fit in your bag according to loft. So if you want a chipper that's 21 degrees it has to be longer than your 4i and shorter than a 5 wood. I would imagine that's within reason, as you could play a 19 degree hybrid and FW at different shaft lengths, like it can't be 3 inches short.

[/quote]

I don't recall anything in the rules remotely close to this.

[url="http://www.usga.org/RulesFAQ/rules_answer.asp?FAQidx=9&Rule=4"]http://www.usga.org/...FAQidx=9&Rule=4[/url]

I guess what comes into question is what "approximately" means. Rereading this for the first time in a few months it seems aimed specifically at some "long chipper." I admit I'm no chipper expert and have never heard of the long chipper. I was more tuning into the "approximately the same length as a club of similar loft in a player's bag."

I hope this is "remotely" close enough for ya.

Thanks guys. I have always considered most clippers as illegal but in recent times I have seen more for sale in golf shops and wondered if there had been a rule change. About 5 years ago the USGA rules site showed illegal clippers and pointed out why they were illegal. Unfortunately no more.

[quote name='rexroh' timestamp='1440895051' post='12232038']
Thanks guys. I have always considered most clippers as illegal but in recent times I have seen more for sale in golf shops and wondered if there had been a rule change. About 5 years ago the USGA rules site showed illegal clippers and pointed out why they were illegal. Unfortunately no more.
[/quote]

No worries. They just have to conform to the rules for "irons." Evidently some had putter grips and were two-sided, etc.

Truly don't know exactly what the official ruling would be about what length you could run it, as what I've posted is all I've seen. Good luck!

[quote name='Matt J' timestamp='1440890538' post='12231622']
I did a bit of research about this recently and although I'm too lazy to reread the rules, my understanding at the time is that the club must play the same shaft length as where it would fit in your bag according to loft. So if you want a chipper that's 21 degrees it has to be longer than your 4i and shorter than a 5 wood. I would imagine that's within reason, as you could play a 19 degree hybrid and FW at different shaft lengths, like it can't be 3 inches short.

[/quote]

Are you suggesting that if A (6'11" tall) and B (4'10" tall) have tailored clubs and A sells B his 3 wood which is 6" longer than B's driver, the driver now becomes non-conforming?

Haven't there been non-conforming clubs around since the early days?

I was under the impression that as long as you're not posting a score for hdcp or playing in a "tournament" that you could use pretty well whatever you wanted.

Wrong?

[quote name='dan360' timestamp='1440919126' post='12233234']
Haven't there been non-conforming clubs around since the early days?

I was under the impression that as long as you're not posting a score for hdcp or playing in a "tournament" that you could use pretty well whatever you wanted.

Wrong?
[/quote]

As long as you are not playing or purporting to play by the Rules of Golf - right. But otherwise - wrong.

[quote name='Matt J' timestamp='1440890538' post='12231622']
I did a bit of research about this recently and although I'm too lazy to reread the rules, my understanding at the time is that the club must play the same shaft length as where it would fit in your bag according to loft. So if you want a chipper that's 21 degrees it has to be longer than your 4i and shorter than a 5 wood. I would imagine that's within reason, as you could play a 19 degree hybrid and FW at different shaft lengths, like it can't be 3 inches short.

Obviously it can't be two-sided.
[/quote]

Had you not been too lazy, you would have found this in Appendix II 1c

[i][color=#474B55]The overall length of the club must be at least 18 inches (0.457 m) and, except for putters, must not exceed 48 inches (1.219 m).[/color][/i]

[quote name='Colin L' timestamp='1440932226' post='12233428']
[quote name='Matt J' timestamp='1440890538' post='12231622']
I did a bit of research about this recently and although I'm too lazy to reread the rules[b], my understanding at the time is that the club must play the same shaft length as where it would fit in your bag according to loft.[/b] So if you want a chipper that's 21 degrees it has to be longer than your 4i and shorter than a 5 wood. I would imagine that's within reason, as you could play a 19 degree hybrid and FW at different shaft lengths, like it can't be 3 inches short.

Obviously it can't be two-sided.
[/quote]

Had you not been too lazy, you would have found this in Appendix II 1c

[i][color=#474B55]The overall length of the club must be at least 18 inches (0.457 m) and, except for putters, must not exceed 48 inches (1.219 m).[/color][/i]
[/quote]

Wait, none of this is related to his statement [b]"club must play the same shaft length as where it would fit in your bag according to loft". [/b]

I'm no expert (who would've guessed?) But my understanding of the "legality" of chippers was if it had two faces and was able to be used right or left handed, it was/is illegal.

Two chipper stories...

A guy I played with years ago would hit his chipper from about 160 and in. The first time he pulled it out for a full shot, I thought he was kidding.

Just last week a guy in my league, missed a shot with his chipper, got mad, threw it up high in a tree, the tree bounced it back to him, so he picked it up, snapped it in half, and re threw the pieces. He was the last person I knew who had one.

Carry on.

[quote name='Matt J' timestamp='1440891451' post='12231706']
[url="http://www.usga.org/RulesFAQ/rules_answer.asp?FAQidx=9&Rule=4"]http://www.usga.org/...FAQidx=9&Rule=4[/url]

I guess what comes into question is what "approximately" means. Rereading this for the first time in a few months it seems aimed specifically at some "long chipper." I admit I'm no chipper expert and have never heard of the long chipper. I was more tuning into the "approximately the same length as a club of similar loft in a player's bag."

I hope this is "remotely" close enough for ya.
[/quote]

Thanks. I had never heard of this and don't know what it means. I thought any club except putter could be between 18 and 48 inches and there were no rules about shaft lengths vis-a-vis the loft of the club.

[quote name='Newby' timestamp='1440918562' post='12233224']
[quote name='Matt J' timestamp='1440890538' post='12231622']
I did a bit of research about this recently and although I'm too lazy to reread the rules, my understanding at the time is that the club must play the same shaft length as where it would fit in your bag according to loft. So if you want a chipper that's 21 degrees it has to be longer than your 4i and shorter than a 5 wood. I would imagine that's within reason, as you could play a 19 degree hybrid and FW at different shaft lengths, like it can't be 3 inches short.

[/quote]

Are you suggesting that if A (6'11" tall) and B (4'10" tall) have tailored clubs and A sells B his 3 wood which is 6" longer than B's driver, the driver now becomes non-conforming?
[/quote]
[quote name='Colin L' timestamp='1440932226' post='12233428']

[quote name='Matt J' timestamp='1440890538' post='12231622']
I did a bit of research about this recently and although I'm too lazy to reread the rules, my understanding at the time is that the club must play the same shaft length as where it would fit in your bag according to loft. So if you want a chipper that's 21 degrees it has to be longer than your 4i and shorter than a 5 wood. I would imagine that's within reason, as you could play a 19 degree hybrid and FW at different shaft lengths, like it can't be 3 inches short.

Obviously it can't be two-sided.
[/quote]

Had you not been too lazy, you would have found this in Appendix II 1c

[i][color=#474B55]The overall length of the club must be at least 18 inches (0.457 m) and, except for putters, must not exceed 48 inches (1.219 m).[/color][/i]
[/quote]

To the first quote:

It's difficult to read the ruling any other way. The question is how to interpret "approximately." My best guess is that a rules official would probably give you a 1" margin as there is typically 1/2" of difference between clubs. It seems the distinction is that the shaft can't be lengthened or shortened specifically to chip. So my understanding is that if you took a hybrid head at 22* and built a 35 inch club that would be 3.25 inches shorter than a typical 4 iron and would not comply. That's exactly what the fellow I was discussing this with did, specifically for links golf.

To the second quote:

Still doesn't address the "approximately" the same length as the closest lofted clubs in your bag. The insinuation is that you can't go low loft and short shaft.

I looked into it previously, but stopped short of writing the USGA. I was only "lazy" to a point.

This one is perfectly legal and I would even go so far as to recommend it...

[attachment=2931918:mHK32Kdm2zWP3IOp_6RNPYA.jpg]

I always thought, one sided yes, two sided, no.....

[quote name='Matt J' timestamp='1440891451' post='12231706']
[url="http://www.usga.org/RulesFAQ/rules_answer.asp?FAQidx=9&Rule=4"]http://www.usga.org/...FAQidx=9&Rule=4[/url]

I guess what comes into question is what "approximately" means. Rereading this for the first time in a few months it seems aimed specifically at some "long chipper." I admit I'm no chipper expert and have never heard of the long chipper. I was more tuning into the "approximately the same length as a club of similar loft in a player's bag."

I hope this is "remotely" close enough for ya.
[/quote]

I find this FAQ answer odd as the rule 4-1 about clubs nor decision 4-1/3 about chippers do not mention the length (of chippers). But both FAQs (USGA & R&A) mention that "long chippers" are not legal. i wonder if they change the decision to make long chippers officially illegal. I do not wish to carry ROG, Decisions and then some FAQ book with me...

I don't understand this length discussion. If I took a hybrid or say 5 or 7 wood head and put a wedge shaft in it to use chipping out of the rough would that make it illegal and one poster claims or not? I always thought that would be an interesting experiment, especially for a high handicapper or older golfer with weaker hands and arms.

You can use a chipper as long as its not one of the 2-way ones.

I remember when I first started playing---I asked the guys I play with, "Should I get a chipper?". The answer---"Don't be *that* guy...."

[quote name='Badgergolfer2' timestamp='1441042828' post='12240030']
You can use a chipper as long as its not one of the 2-way ones.
[/quote]

You sure, bro?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AihcBrAS0S4

[quote name='Matt J' timestamp='1441170938' post='12249616']
[quote name='Badgergolfer2' timestamp='1441042828' post='12240030']
You can use a chipper as long as its not one of the 2-way ones.
[/quote]

You sure, bro?

[url="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AihcBrAS0S4"]https://www.youtube....h?v=AihcBrAS0S4[/url]
[/quote]

Yes. A long chipper no.

A club like a Cleveland Niblick is perfectly legal.

[quote name='SplashShot' timestamp='1441179722' post='12249824']
[quote name='Matt J' timestamp='1441170938' post='12249616']
[quote name='Badgergolfer2' timestamp='1441042828' post='12240030']
You can use a chipper as long as its not one of the 2-way ones.
[/quote]

You sure, bro?

[url="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AihcBrAS0S4"]https://www.youtube....h?v=AihcBrAS0S4[/url]
[/quote]

Yes. A long chipper no.

A club like a Cleveland Niblick is perfectly legal.
[/quote]

I think they made that Neblick in four different lofts, 37*, 42*, 49*, and 56*. The standard shaft was 35" if what I'm reading is correct. That would probably make the 49* and 56* legal. Once again, I think we're stuck with trying to understand "approximately" in reference to it fitting into the set.

Just to set the record straight...

The 2011 Niblicks were made in just (3) lofts 42* (PW), 49* (DW), and 56* SW. (The 37* lofted Niblick was dropped when Cleveland made the cosmetic changes to the 2011 Niblick Wedge line).

The 2011 Niblicks have the new conforming "Tour-Zip" grooves, whereas the older Niblick models had Cleveland's original "Zip grooves". The older style "Zip Grooves" are now illegal for R&A, USGA and PGA sanctioned Tournament play, (i.e. those Events held for Tour Players and Professionals). Plenty of the older style "box" grooves can be found in recreational player's bags where they are NOT considered illegal.

None of the Niblick Hybrid Wedges were illegal when introduced by Cleveland Golf....certainly no more so than any other Cleveland Wedge which featured the same grooves.

As we have now seen, the whole groove controversy turned out to be a bit silly and has had very little impact on the game. Manufacturers were able to find other ways to produce additional spin to make up for the groove rule change...roughed-up face milling such as Clevleand's own rotex face milling is a good example. As we can see most weeks on TV, there is still plenty of spin available to Players on the PGA Tour. Most of those guys never missed a beat with the groove rule change.

The rule banning anchored putters that goes into effect next year is likely have a much greater effect, even though it only affects a relatively small minority of Tour players. Some will be able to adapt successfully, while others may suddenly themselves suffering the dreaded "yips" while trying to make the necessary changes

[quote name='Matt J' timestamp='1441209960' post='12251414']
[quote name='SplashShot' timestamp='1441179722' post='12249824']
[quote name='Matt J' timestamp='1441170938' post='12249616']
[quote name='Badgergolfer2' timestamp='1441042828' post='12240030']
You can use a chipper as long as its not one of the 2-way ones.
[/quote]

You sure, bro?

[url="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AihcBrAS0S4"]https://www.youtube....h?v=AihcBrAS0S4[/url]
[/quote]

Yes. A long chipper no.

A club like a Cleveland Niblick is perfectly legal.
[/quote]

I think they made that Neblick in four different lofts, 37*, 42*, 49*, and 56*. The standard shaft was 35" if what I'm reading is correct. That would probably make the 49* and 56* legal. Once again, I think we're stuck with trying to understand "approximately" in reference to it fitting into the set.
[/quote]
They were all legal and conforming, as stated above.. I'm sure Cleveland did their homework.

The shaft length would not be relevant, as long as it was within USGA rules. When I first started playing, chippers were very common and I knew guys who were deadly with them. I have read here that for really tight, firm turf conditions that they are a near must.

[quote name='farmer' timestamp='1441307684' post='12258386']
The shaft length would not be relevant, as long as it was within USGA rules. When I first started playing, chippers were very common and I knew guys who were deadly with them. I have read here that for really tight, firm turf conditions that they are a near must.
[/quote]

Especially if you can't chip

This is what I was talking about.

http://www.golfmagic.com/news/images/oddputtwedge02.jpg

I think this is illegal because of the alignment marks on flange which is legal on putters but not on irons.

However there is something similar on the top of the Ping i25 fairway wood.

I used my old First Flights the other day, I'm guessing that these chippers are equivalent to the 10 iron in that set. It is very useful for those shots from the fringe on the far side of the green.