My Only Real Equipment Complaint-Stronger Lofts

I wonder if the manufacturers knew they would dig a hole with the stronger lofts thing, as now there are less than 8 irons sold in many new sets (my new set was the first I've ever bought with 7 clubs...don't really miss the 3 iron, as I carry a 21 degree wood). More money for the more wedge companies! It's only a number, but with a 46 degree P it is actually is a bit of a problem for me in that I am very, very used to a 56 and a 60. So, I have to fill in that ten degrees between 56 and 46 with just one club. Last year it was a 52, but it wasn't the best solution. I had been working on gripping down on the P, but apparently I'm not really good at that.

Should I bend the 52 to a 51, replace the 52 with a 50, or just learned to get a little better gripping down on the P 1/2 inch? My gut tells me to go to the 50 and live with the gap between 50 and 56 as the distance between those higher lofts seems slightly less in actual play than the gap between the 46 and the 52 (or I can just control it better...dunno really).

This is the only equipment issue I have not figured out. I have gone a decade without buying new clubs and last year was the first year I've added new irons and wedges since like 2008 or 9 (drivers seem to creep in the bag every other year or so). With the new irons I again lost another degree of loft from a 47 to a 46. You would think it wouldn't matter too much, but all season my most inconsistent distance inside 160 was between the P and the gap wedge. It's not just that the new club has a 1 degree stronger pitch, I think they are just longer overall, so it seems like it's now a 2 degree difference.

I'm hitting the 52 a solid 115 when I push it, but most of the time it's more 110-112. I'm hitting the 46 130-135. This 20-23 yards is my problem.

Suggestions?

You are likely gonna have a small gap somewhere. What do you do when you have a less than full SW? If you are proficient at that shot, then you should be able to find an appropriately lofted gw, that fills the yardage gap to the PW, that you can also reproduce the less than full SW shot and also cover the distance gap to the SW.

If less then full shots is not in you bag, then have the lofts adjusted to fill the gaps, which may include adjusting the pw weak, which is a much overlooked option.

You are likely gonna have a small gap somewhere. What do you do when you have a less than full SW? If you are proficient at that shot, then you should be able to find an appropriately lofted gw, that fills the yardage gap to the PW, that you can also reproduce the less than full SW shot and also cover the distance gap to the SW.

 

If less then full shots is not in you bag, then have the lofts adjusted to fill the gaps, which may include adjusting the pw weak, which is a much overlooked option.

I basically hit everything stronger than the 56 at full swing. I'm kinda not good at swinging the longer clubs less than full, which does not mean 100% power, but rather my normal tempo. If I try to take a little bit off my standard set, it usually does not work out very good. Inside 105, I seem to have strong talent to hit almost any distance with either the 56 or the 60. I use something of a modified Pelz type approach and have been doing it with success since the 90's. Again, these 1/4, 1/2, 3/4 swings seem to only work for me repeatable inside that 105 max range for the 56. I don't really understand why this is, but I do have a slightly different wedge swing than I do with the full irons.

Adjusting the lofts is interesting to me, but it's something I've never done before. I'm a little concerned about changing the bounces, but this is something I need to learn more about.

Thanks

I go 46, 50,56,60. I've tried every combination. Wedge to gap wedge has always been the area that I find most difficult with a larger gap between lofts. This works for me for some reason. I now have a 13 yard gap between pw and gw and 18 between gw and sw.

2 degrees less loft should give you 5-6 yards extra distance. As ode1 said there is likely to be a gap somewhere, it's just making it work for you.

If possible, find somewhere with a SIM and a bending machine. Tweak the 56 52 and the P till you clean up the gaps.

Another option woiuld be to go 58 54 50. The the P falls as it should. I really don't think you will have too much trouble figuring out your new distances as long as the wedges are similar to what you play now. Plus you won't be worrying about bounce changes. And fresh wedges always shave some strokes.

I go 46, 50,56,60. I've tried every combination. Wedge to gap wedge has always been the area that I find most difficult with a larger gap between lofts. This works for me for some reason. I now have a 13 yard gap between pw and gw and 18 between gw and sw.

 

2 degrees less loft should give you 5-6 yards extra distance. As ode1 said there is likely to be a gap somewhere, it's just making it work for you.

13 yards, I would find that very acceptable between gap and pitch. 18 yards between S and G would be difficult, but I think I could manage it a little better. You've got me leaning towards going with the 50. Plus, and while I'm probably in a minority, I don't love the F grind on my 52 like I love my M and my K grinds. A chance to mix that up a bit to something more friendly to softer Michigan conditions.

Thanks

If possible, find somewhere with a SIM and a bending machine. Tweak the 56 52 and the P till you clean up the gaps.

Another option woiuld be to go 58 54 50. The the P falls as it should. I really don't think you will have too much trouble figuring out your new distances as long as the wedges are similar to what you play now. Plus you won't be worrying about bounce changes. And fresh wedges always shave some strokes.

I love the idea of getting someone to fine tune my lofts, but it's something I've never done. And, I would consider it on the gap, but I won't mess with my bounce or my loft on my 56 or my 60. True, I could probably adjust, but my thinking is, "don't mess with something that works", and my 56, 60, and my putter are the only three clubs that work really well in my bag. Any other club I would consider modifying or trading out, but those three would be the last I messed with. I might go with the 50 for a while and then if look into some minor bends for the G or even the P. I'd want to get in a good 4-6 weeks of play before I made another change.

Thanks

I go 46, 50,56,60. I've tried every combination. Wedge to gap wedge has always been the area that I find most difficult with a larger gap between lofts. This works for me for some reason. I now have a 13 yard gap between pw and gw and 18 between gw and sw.

 

2 degrees less loft should give you 5-6 yards extra distance. As ode1 said there is likely to be a gap somewhere, it's just making it work for you.

 

13 yards, I would find that very acceptable between gap and pitch. 18 yards between S and G would be difficult, but I think I could manage it a little better. You've got me leaning towards going with the 50. Plus, and while I'm probably in a minority, I don't love the F grind on my 52 like I love my M and my K grinds. A chance to mix that up a bit to something more friendly to softer Michigan conditions.

 

Thanks

What bounce do you have on the F?

I did worry about having 6 degrees between G & S but I have found that one covers the distance in to the wind and the other does down wind. I can understand you not wanting to change the lofts of the 56 & 60 if you are comfortable with them.

If possible, find somewhere with a SIM and a bending machine. Tweak the 56 52 and the P till you clean up the gaps.

Another option woiuld be to go 58 54 50. The the P falls as it should. I really don't think you will have too much trouble figuring out your new distances as long as the wedges are similar to what you play now. Plus you won't be worrying about bounce changes. And fresh wedges always shave some strokes.

 

I love the idea of getting someone to fine tune my lofts, but it's something I've never done. And, I would consider it on the gap, but I won't mess with my bounce or my loft on my 56 or my 60. True, I could probably adjust, but my thinking is, "don't mess with something that works", and my 56, 60, and my putter are the only three clubs that work really well in my bag. Any other club I would consider modifying or trading out, but those three would be the last I messed with. I might go with the 50 for a while and then if look into some minor bends for the G or even the P. I'd want to get in a good 4-6 weeks of play before I made another change.

 

Thanks

You could try and make your lob wedge a 58 instead of a 60. Half and three-quarter swings are much easier with a 58 than a 60 IMO. And the 2* difference when you get around the greens isn't that much of a penalty. Then you could go 50-54-58

I go 46, 50,56,60. I've tried every combination. Wedge to gap wedge has always been the area that I find most difficult with a larger gap between lofts. This works for me for some reason. I now have a 13 yard gap between pw and gw and 18 between gw and sw.

 

2 degrees less loft should give you 5-6 yards extra distance. As ode1 said there is likely to be a gap somewhere, it's just making it work for you.

 

13 yards, I would find that very acceptable between gap and pitch. 18 yards between S and G would be difficult, but I think I could manage it a little better. You've got me leaning towards going with the 50. Plus, and while I'm probably in a minority, I don't love the F grind on my 52 like I love my M and my K grinds. A chance to mix that up a bit to something more friendly to softer Michigan conditions.

 

Thanks

 

What bounce do you have on the F?

 

I did worry about having 6 degrees between G & S but I have found that one covers the distance in to the wind and the other does down wind. I can understand you not wanting to change the lofts of the 56 & 60 if you are comfortable with them.

My F bounce is 12, which is good. But, my bad. I didn't really mean bounce, but rather the grind/sole shape. The F grind is a fine club and there is nothing wrong with it at all. But, it seems to have one great working position, which is square. And I don't have the same flexibility with it like I do with the K and the M.

I like that you think about the larger gap as variable for wind conditions. One thing having this 20 plus large gap did for me last season was to force me to think more about the shot and club choice. I might have learned a couple of things choosing between the trade-offs, but in the end, a smaller gap is going to save more strokes.

Thx!

You could try and make your lob wedge a 58 instead of a 60. Half and three-quarter swings are much easier with a 58 than a 60 IMO. And the 2* difference when you get around the greens isn't that much of a penalty. Then you could go 50-54-58

It is a good idea. I'm sure I could learn to live with those lofts, as both the grinds I love are available in K and M. I'll think about it and maybe demo outdoors some 54/58 combinations at Carls Golfland this spring.

Thx

If possible, find somewhere with a SIM and a bending machine. Tweak the 56 52 and the P till you clean up the gaps.

Another option woiuld be to go 58 54 50. The the P falls as it should. I really don't think you will have too much trouble figuring out your new distances as long as the wedges are similar to what you play now. Plus you won't be worrying about bounce changes. And fresh wedges always shave some strokes.

 

I love the idea of getting someone to fine tune my lofts, but it's something I've never done. And, I would consider it on the gap, but I won't mess with my bounce or my loft on my 56 or my 60. True, I could probably adjust, but my thinking is, "don't mess with something that works", and my 56, 60, and my putter are the only three clubs that work really well in my bag. Any other club I would consider modifying or trading out, but those three would be the last I messed with. I might go with the 50 for a while and then if look into some minor bends for the G or even the P. I'd want to get in a good 4-6 weeks of play before I made another change.

 

Thanks

In winter I do a ton of simulator time and every once in a while I'll see an out of the ordinary distance gap. I'll measure the offending club and the ones on either side of it. Then I will adjust lofts a bit. Sometimes I find myself just flushing one club in particular like the 6 or 7. I tend to weaken the lofts of those a bit to get them in line with the rest. I have an ancient bending machine but it gets the job done.

You are more daring than I am. As I've said, I've never bent a single club for loft (lie yes, but never loft). As for flushing one club over another, my gap is a Vokey and my pitch is a Mizuno, and the Mizunos have more flexible shafts. So, there is another variable than just the loft difference. That said, both clubs are pretty consistent...just too far apart on average.

Thx

I had a wedge bent 2º by the manufacturer. Didn't affect the bounce all that much.

The lofts haven't gotten stronger, they just changes the number on the bottom. I still carry a 50 degree wedge. It was called a pitching wedge. Now it's a gap wedge. Whatever you call i its the same club.

What has changed and I think for the worse is the clubs have gotten longer, particularly Drivers and fairway clubs. That adversely effects their playability.

Steve

The lofts haven't gotten stronger, they just changes the number on the bottom. I still carry a 50 degree wedge. It was called a pitching wedge. Now it's a gap wedge. Whatever you call i its the same club.

 

What has changed and I think for the worse is the clubs have gotten longer, particularly Drivers and fairway clubs. That adversely effects their playability.

 

Steve

He's different, in that he never had or needed a 50* club. Sounds like he always had a 47/48* club. The issue is figuring out his wedge gaps, now that his new set 'dictates' that he carry something around 50*.

It's a simple transition for someone who always carried a 49/50*,... but some never have. Getting used to short irons/wedges that are about a "half club" or so different, can certainly take some getting used to

The lofts haven't gotten stronger, they just changes the number on the bottom. I still carry a 50 degree wedge. It was called a pitching wedge. Now it's a gap wedge. Whatever you call i its the same club.

 

What has changed and I think for the worse is the clubs have gotten longer, particularly Drivers and fairway clubs. That adversely effects their playability.

 

Steve

Agree. It's just a naming game for the most part, but it creates some problems.

Interesting comment about clubs getting too long. I'm 52 now, and not as flexible. I no longer carry a 3 wood. I just find it too difficult to hit well consistently, and yet, the 5 wood I'm using now (and Epic) is longer than my 3 wood was from ten years ago. This is not a situation like the wedges and numbering games. The loft is the same, but now my 18 degree club goes every bit as far as my old 15 degree club.

The lofts haven't gotten stronger, they just changes the number on the bottom. I still carry a 50 degree wedge. It was called a pitching wedge. Now it's a gap wedge. Whatever you call i its the same club.

 

What has changed and I think for the worse is the clubs have gotten longer, particularly Drivers and fairway clubs. That adversely effects their playability.

 

Steve

 

He's different, in that he never had or needed a 50* club. Sounds like he always had a 47/48* club. The issue is figuring out his wedge gaps, now that his new set 'dictates' that he carry something around 50*.

 

It's a simple transition for someone who always carried a 49/50*,... but some never have. Getting used to short irons/wedges that are about a "half club" or so different, can certainly take some getting used to

Exactly. I got curious and looked up old lofts from my old sets. Apparently my first new set of clubs (Ping Eye 2) had a P that was 50 degrees. So in 30 years my P has gone from 50 to the 46 in my current set. It's all ridiculous to my thinking, unless there is some advantage to this club strengthening I'm not aware of.

The lofts haven't gotten stronger, they just changes the number on the bottom. I still carry a 50 degree wedge. It was called a pitching wedge. Now it's a gap wedge. Whatever you call i its the same club.

 

What has changed and I think for the worse is the clubs have gotten longer, particularly Drivers and fairway clubs. That adversely effects their playability.

 

Steve

 

He's different, in that he never had or needed a 50* club. Sounds like he always had a 47/48* club. The issue is figuring out his wedge gaps, now that his new set 'dictates' that he carry something around 50*.

 

It's a simple transition for someone who always carried a 49/50*,... but some never have. Getting used to short irons/wedges that are about a "half club" or so different, can certainly take some getting used to

 

Exactly. I got curious and looked up old lofts from my old sets. Apparently my first new set of clubs (Ping Eye 2) had a P that was 50 degrees. So in 30 years my P has gone from 50 to the 46 in my current set. It's all ridiculous to my thinking, unless there is some advantage to this club strengthening I'm not aware of.

I think lofts have moved stronger for two reasons, one legitimate one marketing.

1. In an effort to help poor golfers get the ball in the air manufactures have designed club heads with higher launch characteristics, In order to keep players from hitting the ball too high some reduction in loft was in order. Not a bad thing.

2. By building a seven iron with 29 degrees of loft they fool the gullible into thinking it is longer hitting and therefore better than the seven iron with 35 degrees of loft. This is a bad thing because it makes the long irons unplayable for most golfers. I for one miss the one two and three irons.

Steve

I wonder if the manufacturers knew they would dig a hole with the stronger lofts thing, as now there are less than 8 irons sold in many new sets (my new set was the first I've ever bought with 7 clubs...don't really miss the 3 iron, as I carry a 21 degree wood). More money for the more wedge companies! It's only a number, but with a 46 degree P it is actually is a bit of a problem for me in that I am very, very used to a 56 and a 60. So, I have to fill in that ten degrees between 56 and 46 with just one club. Last year it was a 52, but it wasn't the best solution. I had been working on gripping down on the P, but apparently I'm not really good at that.

 

Should I bend the 52 to a 51, replace the 52 with a 50, or just learned to get a little better gripping down on the P 1/2 inch? My gut tells me to go to the 50 and live with the gap between 50 and 56 as the distance between those higher lofts seems slightly less in actual play than the gap between the 46 and the 52 (or I can just control it better...dunno really).

 

This is the only equipment issue I have not figured out. I have gone a decade without buying new clubs and last year was the first year I've added new irons and wedges since like 2008 or 9 (drivers seem to creep in the bag every other year or so). With the new irons I again lost another degree of loft from a 47 to a 46. You would think it wouldn't matter too much, but all season my most inconsistent distance inside 160 was between the P and the gap wedge. It's not just that the new club has a 1 degree stronger pitch, I think they are just longer overall, so it seems like it's now a 2 degree difference.

 

I'm hitting the 52 a solid 115 when I push it, but most of the time it's more 110-112. I'm hitting the 46 130-135. This 20-23 yards is my problem.

 

Suggestions?

This is where it can be frustrating for a golfer who, a) is not good buddies with a club repair person who has a good LL machine and the skill to use it, or b) does not have a LL machine with the skill to use it. Even if you have plenty of discretionary cash to spend on the game, if there is no one in your area with a LL machine and the skill, you're kind of in a pickle. You either do the mail it back and forth thing or break down and buy a LL machine and spend the hours learning how to use it. Not a great solution in other words.

For serious players with a reasonable level of ball striking proficiency, gapping the irons is a very important part of equipment for sure. 1) Most irons in a set will not be dead on spec for loft. There is a normal +/-1* tolerance on EVERY set ever made. 2) golfers vary in clubhead speed. The higher the speed, the greater the actual yardage gap for any given increment of loft. And vice versa on this. So some golfers can be fine for gaps with a 3* change between some irons, some are ok with 4* and some need to have 5* between irons to get proper gaps. 3) golfers vary in angle of attack as well. Angle of attack controls the loft of the iron at impact. Typically golfers get more steep as irons get shorter because their ball position is moving back in the stance as the iron's length is shorter. But there are lots of variations in this due to differences in swing characteristics among golfers. So this too affects distance gapping.

The TrackMan folks told me once that one of the key things the pros do who buy a unit is to use it for absolute fine tuning of lofts to achieve more exact and predictable distance gaps between the irons and wedges. And in many cases they said, the actual loft changes from iron to iron won't all be the same increment because of the little differences in how the player hits each iron - clubhead speed, angle of attack, dynamic loft at impact, etc.

And the only way to get there is if you have easy access to a LL machine to get the little loft tweaks done quickly so you can hit shots, look at results, tweak loft, hit shots, look at results, etc.

Obviously the place to start is to do the analysis as you are doing. And then decrease loft on one (or both) of the two irons for which you have a greater gap of yardage and increase loft on one or both of the two irons for which you have a shorter gap of yardage. Either that or look at your ball position with the irons that are posing a distance gap problem and adjust that back or forward to change the loft at impact and see how that works. That's not always the right approach if such a change breeds more shot inconsistency.

I wonder if the manufacturers knew they would dig a hole with the stronger lofts thing, as now there are less than 8 irons sold in many new sets (my new set was the first I've ever bought with 7 clubs...don't really miss the 3 iron, as I carry a 21 degree wood). More money for the more wedge companies! It's only a number, but with a 46 degree P it is actually is a bit of a problem for me in that I am very, very used to a 56 and a 60. So, I have to fill in that ten degrees between 56 and 46 with just one club. Last year it was a 52, but it wasn't the best solution. I had been working on gripping down on the P, but apparently I'm not really good at that.

 

Should I bend the 52 to a 51, replace the 52 with a 50, or just learned to get a little better gripping down on the P 1/2 inch? My gut tells me to go to the 50 and live with the gap between 50 and 56 as the distance between those higher lofts seems slightly less in actual play than the gap between the 46 and the 52 (or I can just control it better...dunno really).

 

This is the only equipment issue I have not figured out. I have gone a decade without buying new clubs and last year was the first year I've added new irons and wedges since like 2008 or 9 (drivers seem to creep in the bag every other year or so). With the new irons I again lost another degree of loft from a 47 to a 46. You would think it wouldn't matter too much, but all season my most inconsistent distance inside 160 was between the P and the gap wedge. It's not just that the new club has a 1 degree stronger pitch, I think they are just longer overall, so it seems like it's now a 2 degree difference.

 

I'm hitting the 52 a solid 115 when I push it, but most of the time it's more 110-112. I'm hitting the 46 130-135. This 20-23 yards is my problem.

 

Suggestions?

In my sig, I play an older set with PW=48, and I've just gone with 52, 57 and 60 (like you 48 and 52 are full swing clubs)

I did buy a new set of clubs with a 46 degree PW, and I'd likely go 46, 51, 56, 60 (or 46, 50 or 50.5 then 56 and 60).

I think if one's starts with even loft gaps from 9-PW-GW at least that's pretty good.

My old set is 43-48-52, and new set is 42, 46, so GW likely should be 50.

I'd have to see about adjusting SW loft down from cleveland 57/vokey 56 (I like those clubs for chips around the greens from heavier rough) and 60.

maybe bend a 54-10S vokey to 55.5, then that would be 55.5/11.5...

excuse the ramble.

For you, it sounds like you could try having the 52 bent to 51, or 50.5'ish...

or even have the PW weakened a bit 46 to 47.

so maybe 47 then 51

Moo, had a similar problem with my set. Looks like your ow wedge distance is like mine.

My ie1 Pings came with a 45* ow and. 50* U wedge. After that I had a Callaway pm grind 56, 60 and 64 with the stock KBS shaft...at 125 grams. My pings have Nippon Modus 105 shafts.

There was a big gap between the ping U wedge at 125 yards and the 56 degree at 105 and 60 degree at 90. After talking with my fitter, he put the modus 105 wedge shafts in and I got the 8-10 yards back I was looking for. The KBS shafts were too heavy.

The lofts haven't gotten stronger, they just changes the number on the bottom. I still carry a 50 degree wedge. It was called a pitching wedge. Now it's a gap wedge. Whatever you call i its the same club.

 

What has changed and I think for the worse is the clubs have gotten longer, particularly Drivers and fairway clubs. That adversely effects their playability.

 

Steve

 

He's different, in that he never had or needed a 50* club. Sounds like he always had a 47/48* club. The issue is figuring out his wedge gaps, now that his new set 'dictates' that he carry something around 50*.

 

It's a simple transition for someone who always carried a 49/50*,... but some never have. Getting used to short irons/wedges that are about a "half club" or so different, can certainly take some getting used to

 

Exactly. I got curious and looked up old lofts from my old sets. Apparently my first new set of clubs (Ping Eye 2) had a P that was 50 degrees. So in 30 years my P has gone from 50 to the 46 in my current set. It's all ridiculous to my thinking, unless there is some advantage to this club strengthening I'm not aware of.

 

I think lofts have moved stronger for two reasons, one legitimate one marketing.

 

1. In an effort to help poor golfers get the ball in the air manufactures have designed club heads with higher launch characteristics, In order to keep players from hitting the ball too high some reduction in loft was in order. Not a bad thing.

 

2. By building a seven iron with 29 degrees of loft they fool the gullible into thinking it is longer hitting and therefore better than the seven iron with 35 degrees of loft. This is a bad thing because it makes the long irons unplayable for most golfers. I for one miss the one two and three irons.

 

Steve

Hello,

Not certain I really understand point 1. Agree completely with point 2. My new set only came with 7 clubs, so no, "3 iron". But, we know that my 4 iron is pretty close to a 3. As I've gotten older, I'm finding it much more difficult to play the 2 or the 3 iron.

I wonder if the manufacturers knew they would dig a hole with the stronger lofts thing, as now there are less than 8 irons sold in many new sets (my new set was the first I've ever bought with 7 clubs...don't really miss the 3 iron, as I carry a 21 degree wood). More money for the more wedge companies! It's only a number, but with a 46 degree P it is actually is a bit of a problem for me in that I am very, very used to a 56 and a 60. So, I have to fill in that ten degrees between 56 and 46 with just one club. Last year it was a 52, but it wasn't the best solution. I had been working on gripping down on the P, but apparently I'm not really good at that.

 

Should I bend the 52 to a 51, replace the 52 with a 50, or just learned to get a little better gripping down on the P 1/2 inch? My gut tells me to go to the 50 and live with the gap between 50 and 56 as the distance between those higher lofts seems slightly less in actual play than the gap between the 46 and the 52 (or I can just control it better...dunno really).

 

This is the only equipment issue I have not figured out. I have gone a decade without buying new clubs and last year was the first year I've added new irons and wedges since like 2008 or 9 (drivers seem to creep in the bag every other year or so). With the new irons I again lost another degree of loft from a 47 to a 46. You would think it wouldn't matter too much, but all season my most inconsistent distance inside 160 was between the P and the gap wedge. It's not just that the new club has a 1 degree stronger pitch, I think they are just longer overall, so it seems like it's now a 2 degree difference.

 

I'm hitting the 52 a solid 115 when I push it, but most of the time it's more 110-112. I'm hitting the 46 130-135. This 20-23 yards is my problem.

 

Suggestions?

 

This is where it can be frustrating for a golfer who, a) is not good buddies with a club repair person who has a good LL machine and the skill to use it, or b) does not have a LL machine with the skill to use it. Even if you have plenty of discretionary cash to spend on the game, if there is no one in your area with a LL machine and the skill, you're kind of in a pickle. You either do the mail it back and forth thing or break down and buy a LL machine and spend the hours learning how to use it. Not a great solution in other words.

 

For serious players with a reasonable level of ball striking proficiency, gapping the irons is a very important part of equipment for sure. 1) Most irons in a set will not be dead on spec for loft. There is a normal +/-1* tolerance on EVERY set ever made. 2) golfers vary in clubhead speed. The higher the speed, the greater the actual yardage gap for any given increment of loft. And vice versa on this. So some golfers can be fine for gaps with a 3* change between some irons, some are ok with 4* and some need to have 5* between irons to get proper gaps. 3) golfers vary in angle of attack as well. Angle of attack controls the loft of the iron at impact. Typically golfers get more steep as irons get shorter because their ball position is moving back in the stance as the iron's length is shorter. But there are lots of variations in this due to differences in swing characteristics among golfers. So this too affects distance gapping.

 

The TrackMan folks told me once that one of the key things the pros do who buy a unit is to use it for absolute fine tuning of lofts to achieve more exact and predictable distance gaps between the irons and wedges. And in many cases they said, the actual loft changes from iron to iron won't all be the same increment because of the little differences in how the player hits each iron - clubhead speed, angle of attack, dynamic loft at impact, etc.

 

And the only way to get there is if you have easy access to a LL machine to get the little loft tweaks done quickly so you can hit shots, look at results, tweak loft, hit shots, look at results, etc.

 

Obviously the place to start is to do the analysis as you are doing. And then decrease loft on one (or both) of the two irons for which you have a greater gap of yardage and increase loft on one or both of the two irons for which you have a shorter gap of yardage. Either that or look at your ball position with the irons that are posing a distance gap problem and adjust that back or forward to change the loft at impact and see how that works. That's not always the right approach if such a change breeds more shot inconsistency.

I'm lucky in this regard, as there are lots of club tweaking possible in my area. I'm thinking about some bends for the wedges, but the rest of the set seems fairly consistent. Filling that gap correctly between 46 and 60, with just two clubs, means some compromise. Not sure what to do just yet, but I think 46/50/56/60 might be workable for me.

I wonder if the manufacturers knew they would dig a hole with the stronger lofts thing, as now there are less than 8 irons sold in many new sets (my new set was the first I've ever bought with 7 clubs...don't really miss the 3 iron, as I carry a 21 degree wood). More money for the more wedge companies! It's only a number, but with a 46 degree P it is actually is a bit of a problem for me in that I am very, very used to a 56 and a 60. So, I have to fill in that ten degrees between 56 and 46 with just one club. Last year it was a 52, but it wasn't the best solution. I had been working on gripping down on the P, but apparently I'm not really good at that.

 

Should I bend the 52 to a 51, replace the 52 with a 50, or just learned to get a little better gripping down on the P 1/2 inch? My gut tells me to go to the 50 and live with the gap between 50 and 56 as the distance between those higher lofts seems slightly less in actual play than the gap between the 46 and the 52 (or I can just control it better...dunno really).

 

This is the only equipment issue I have not figured out. I have gone a decade without buying new clubs and last year was the first year I've added new irons and wedges since like 2008 or 9 (drivers seem to creep in the bag every other year or so). With the new irons I again lost another degree of loft from a 47 to a 46. You would think it wouldn't matter too much, but all season my most inconsistent distance inside 160 was between the P and the gap wedge. It's not just that the new club has a 1 degree stronger pitch, I think they are just longer overall, so it seems like it's now a 2 degree difference.

 

I'm hitting the 52 a solid 115 when I push it, but most of the time it's more 110-112. I'm hitting the 46 130-135. This 20-23 yards is my problem.

 

Suggestions?

 

In my sig, I play an older set with PW=48, and I've just gone with 52, 57 and 60 (like you 48 and 52 are full swing clubs)

 

I did buy a new set of clubs with a 46 degree PW, and I'd likely go 46, 51, 56, 60 (or 46, 50 or 50.5 then 56 and 60).

 

I think if one's starts with even loft gaps from 9-PW-GW at least that's pretty good.

 

My old set is 43-48-52, and new set is 42, 46, so GW likely should be 50.

 

I'd have to see about adjusting SW loft down from cleveland 57/vokey 56 (I like those clubs for chips around the greens from heavier rough) and 60.

 

maybe bend a 54-10S vokey to 55.5, then that would be 55.5/11.5...

 

excuse the ramble.

I agree with this, but there is no Vokey 51. So, bend the 52 I have to a 51 and reduce the bounce, or buy a new Vokey 50 and bend it to 51 and increase the bounce?

Moo, had a similar problem with my set. Looks like your ow wedge distance is like mine.

 

My ie1 Pings came with a 45* ow and. 50* U wedge. After that I had a Callaway pm grind 56, 60 and 64 with the stock KBS shaft...at 125 grams. My pings have Nippon Modus 105 shafts.

 

There was a big gap between the ping U wedge at 125 yards and the 56 degree at 105 and 60 degree at 90. After talking with my fitter, he put the modus 105 wedge shafts in and I got the 8-10 yards back I was looking for. The KBS shafts were too heavy.

Funny you mention KBS. My new clubs from last summer are the first irons in probably 18 years that don't have Dynamic Gold S300 stiff. I went with KBS regular and I really like them. For me they get a little higher trajectory and don't require me to have my full power swing every single day. I did try the Modus when I was club shopping and I really loved those too. It was down to the KBS or the Modus and in the end, the KBS set was far cheaper, but had the price been exactly equal, I think I might have gone with the Modus. Really nice shafts.

I wonder if the manufacturers knew they would dig a hole with the stronger lofts thing, as now there are less than 8 irons sold in many new sets (my new set was the first I've ever bought with 7 clubs...don't really miss the 3 iron, as I carry a 21 degree wood). More money for the more wedge companies! It's only a number, but with a 46 degree P it is actually is a bit of a problem for me in that I am very, very used to a 56 and a 60. So, I have to fill in that ten degrees between 56 and 46 with just one club. Last year it was a 52, but it wasn't the best solution. I had been working on gripping down on the P, but apparently I'm not really good at that.

 

Should I bend the 52 to a 51, replace the 52 with a 50, or just learned to get a little better gripping down on the P 1/2 inch? My gut tells me to go to the 50 and live with the gap between 50 and 56 as the distance between those higher lofts seems slightly less in actual play than the gap between the 46 and the 52 (or I can just control it better...dunno really).

 

This is the only equipment issue I have not figured out. I have gone a decade without buying new clubs and last year was the first year I've added new irons and wedges since like 2008 or 9 (drivers seem to creep in the bag every other year or so). With the new irons I again lost another degree of loft from a 47 to a 46. You would think it wouldn't matter too much, but all season my most inconsistent distance inside 160 was between the P and the gap wedge. It's not just that the new club has a 1 degree stronger pitch, I think they are just longer overall, so it seems like it's now a 2 degree difference.

 

I'm hitting the 52 a solid 115 when I push it, but most of the time it's more 110-112. I'm hitting the 46 130-135. This 20-23 yards is my problem.

 

Suggestions?

Thing I learned a long time ago was to hit a 30 yard 3 iron. Actually, because I spent so much of my time on the range and balls were rather cheap at the time, I learned to hit a lot of 30 and other odd lot distances with all my irons. It's a thing we all should know but sometimes forget. A swing consists of swing speed as well as loft so as long as you know how to adjust both, you can pretty much own all the distances and height of flight in those distances. We are not machines.

Shambles

I wonder if the manufacturers knew they would dig a hole with the stronger lofts thing, as now there are less than 8 irons sold in many new sets (my new set was the first I've ever bought with 7 clubs...don't really miss the 3 iron, as I carry a 21 degree wood). More money for the more wedge companies! It's only a number, but with a 46 degree P it is actually is a bit of a problem for me in that I am very, very used to a 56 and a 60. So, I have to fill in that ten degrees between 56 and 46 with just one club. Last year it was a 52, but it wasn't the best solution. I had been working on gripping down on the P, but apparently I'm not really good at that.

 

Should I bend the 52 to a 51, replace the 52 with a 50, or just learned to get a little better gripping down on the P 1/2 inch? My gut tells me to go to the 50 and live with the gap between 50 and 56 as the distance between those higher lofts seems slightly less in actual play than the gap between the 46 and the 52 (or I can just control it better...dunno really).

 

This is the only equipment issue I have not figured out. I have gone a decade without buying new clubs and last year was the first year I've added new irons and wedges since like 2008 or 9 (drivers seem to creep in the bag every other year or so). With the new irons I again lost another degree of loft from a 47 to a 46. You would think it wouldn't matter too much, but all season my most inconsistent distance inside 160 was between the P and the gap wedge. It's not just that the new club has a 1 degree stronger pitch, I think they are just longer overall, so it seems like it's now a 2 degree difference.

 

I'm hitting the 52 a solid 115 when I push it, but most of the time it's more 110-112. I'm hitting the 46 130-135. This 20-23 yards is my problem.

 

Suggestions?

 

In my sig, I play an older set with PW=48, and I've just gone with 52, 57 and 60 (like you 48 and 52 are full swing clubs)

 

I did buy a new set of clubs with a 46 degree PW, and I'd likely go 46, 51, 56, 60 (or 46, 50 or 50.5 then 56 and 60).

 

I think if one's starts with even loft gaps from 9-PW-GW at least that's pretty good.

 

My old set is 43-48-52, and new set is 42, 46, so GW likely should be 50.

 

I'd have to see about adjusting SW loft down from cleveland 57/vokey 56 (I like those clubs for chips around the greens from heavier rough) and 60.

 

maybe bend a 54-10S vokey to 55.5, then that would be 55.5/11.5...

 

excuse the ramble.

 

I agree with this, but there is no Vokey 51. So, bend the 52 I have to a 51 and reduce the bounce, or buy a new Vokey 50 and bend it to 51 and increase the bounce?

depends on the bounce you want

I play the 52-08 F grind and like it, and I'd probably be fine bending it to 51 and getting down to 7 bounce (hard to notice diff with +/- 1 degree)

I purchased a 50 SM5 F grind used from golf galaxy and I'm pretty sure it's an 8 bounce as well, going to 51 would be fine at 9 bounce.

I play in chicago area on mainly softer courses (over-watering)...

Some people like 12 degree bounce in their gap wedges.

Thanks again for all the suggestions. The choice to fix this problem got pretty easy. I was at Golf Galaxy and they had a demo SM6 50-8 that looked like brand new. $49.99 at they put a purple tag on it (50% lowest marked price). Sometimes you get lucky!

So the choice was not difficult. I'll post back after a couple of months into the season and report how it worked out shifting my gap from 46-52-56 to 46-50-56.