Home Simulator Builders, buyer beware tip

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  • clevitedclevited Don't think you are, know you are. Members Posts: 1,000 ✭✭



    Is there any reason GolfWRX doesn't have a simulator forum? I was looking into building one earlier this year and was shocked that I couldn't find information on this site




    I was also a little surprised. I've become more and more interested in the world of simulators recently and over the Thanksgiving break I spent some time doing some research. Found some discussions here on Golfwrx but no dedicated section for simulators. Considering there are sections devoted to clubmaking and hickory clubs and almost everything else golf-related, it seems that a simulator section would make sense. Especially considering how many people here seem to have them or are interested in having one.



    Can we petition a moderator to maybe set one up?





    *Funny thing is that during my research, I came across the GSF site and thought I had struck gold. I didn't read up on any software, I only spent a few minutes reading about nets and screens. So I didn't pick up on the software bias. But thanks to the OP for alerting me of that*




    Does anyone know how to contact a mod for questions about adding a simulator specific section to GolfWRX?
  • dg_1983dg_1983 Members Posts: 1,283 ✭✭
    I don't have any issue with GSF but I am in the TGC and Skytrak camp so that is maybe why! I think TGC2019 will make TGC the forerunner for the sim software.
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  • PoserPoser Members Posts: 1,743 ✭✭
    I was banned on the same forum because I had sent a pm to someone about PP and he was reading peoples Private messages.
  • SDLSDL Members Posts: 350 ✭✭
    dg_1983 wrote:


    I don't have any issue with GSF but I am in the TGC and Skytrak camp so that is maybe why! I think TGC2019 will make TGC the forerunner for the sim software.




    I am a user of SkyTrak and JNPG, and my ability to post on GSF was disabled after I posted positive comments about JNPG. I contacted the mods several times to request an explanation, but I never received a response. If you support TGC software on the GSF site, you should have no problems, but it is very clear that GSF is biased and serves as a marketing effort in support of TGC.



    I have read a few things about TGC2019, and I hope that it will be an improvement over TGC. For new SkyTrak users, JNPG is no longer an option since JNPG was purchased by Trackman for use on its own launch monitors. This means that SkyTrak users have to look for other sim software options like TGC. Those of us who were already using SkyTrak and JNPG at the time of the Trackman buy-out are able to continue our subscriptions through SkyTrak, but new SkyTrak users no longer have that option.
  • clevitedclevited Don't think you are, know you are. Members Posts: 1,000 ✭✭
    SDL wrote:

    dg_1983 wrote:


    I don't have any issue with GSF but I am in the TGC and Skytrak camp so that is maybe why! I think TGC2019 will make TGC the forerunner for the sim software.




    I am a user of SkyTrak and JNPG, and my ability to post on GSF was disabled after I posted positive comments about JNPG. I contacted the mods several times to request an explanation, but I never received a response. If you support TGC software on the GSF site, you should have no problems, but it is very clear that GSF is biased and serves as a marketing effort in support of TGC.



    I have read a few things about TGC2019, and I hope that it will be an improvement over TGC. For new SkyTrak users, JNPG is no longer an option since JNPG was purchased by Trackman for use on its own launch monitors. This means that SkyTrak users have to look for other sim software options like TGC. Those of us who were already using SkyTrak and JNPG at the time of the Trackman buy-out are able to continue our subscriptions through SkyTrak, but new SkyTrak users no longer have that option.




    Yes, only way for Skytrak users to get JNPG is to find a used one with existing subscription to JNPG. For the record, JNPG offers much more than TGC "currently", and TGC can learn a lot from JNPG. I think competition is great to have both for features of sim software, quality graphically, realism of physics and cost (many more reasons as well). GSF moderators seem to want to quell the competition because they know TGC currently isn't quite "there". It is hopefully on its way, and hopefully JNPG continues to improve also. Either way competition is good, and it is upsetting that GSF is biased and doesn't see it that way and being pretty much the only dedicated simulator site out there, it is an abuse of power imo.
  • clevitedclevited Don't think you are, know you are. Members Posts: 1,000 ✭✭
    edited Nov 29, 2018 #37
    I would ask anyone that is reading this, that agrees this behavior is not ok to get on GSF and send the moderators messages asking them to remove bias from the website. Convey your disgust with this behavior. By my estimate, close to a hundred, possibly more, people have been banned that offered up a lot of great help to new builders on there. People want to save others from making the same mistakes they did, and or just inform them of the facts. All of these people should get their accounts back, and Protee should shut it's mouth and let consumers be consumers. I know that the mod there thinks there is some recruitment conspiracy regarding his JNPG competition, that I can assure you is not true. I am just a pissed off consumer that was contemplating TGC until they messed with my friends. That made my decision easier and I chose to go the tougher rout of selling my old Skytrak and buying a different used one with JNPG on it.



    Please as a consumer yourselves help do something about this. Please make the effort to stop censoring, banning and misinformation on the GSF site that leads to ripped off people and lack of good help to new sim builders.
  • SDLSDL Members Posts: 350 ✭✭
    clevited wrote:

    SDL wrote:

    dg_1983 wrote:


    I don't have any issue with GSF but I am in the TGC and Skytrak camp so that is maybe why! I think TGC2019 will make TGC the forerunner for the sim software.




    I am a user of SkyTrak and JNPG, and my ability to post on GSF was disabled after I posted positive comments about JNPG. I contacted the mods several times to request an explanation, but I never received a response. If you support TGC software on the GSF site, you should have no problems, but it is very clear that GSF is biased and serves as a marketing effort in support of TGC.



    I have read a few things about TGC2019, and I hope that it will be an improvement over TGC. For new SkyTrak users, JNPG is no longer an option since JNPG was purchased by Trackman for use on its own launch monitors. This means that SkyTrak users have to look for other sim software options like TGC. Those of us who were already using SkyTrak and JNPG at the time of the Trackman buy-out are able to continue our subscriptions through SkyTrak, but new SkyTrak users no longer have that option.




    Yes, only way for Skytrak users to get JNPG is to find a used one with existing subscription to JNPG. For the record, JNPG offers much more than TGC "currently", and TGC can learn a lot from JNPG. I think competition is great to have both for features of sim software, quality graphically, realism of physics and cost (many more reasons as well). GSF moderators seem to want to quell the competition because they know TGC currently isn't quite "there". It is hopefully on its way, and hopefully JNPG continues to improve also. Either way competition is good, and it is upsetting that GSF is biased and doesn't see it that way and being pretty much the only dedicated simulator site out there, it is an abuse of power imo.




    I agree = JNPG is currently better sim software than TGC in my opinion, but competition is a good thing and I hope TGC gets better. Improvements in naturalness of graphics, game play, multiple tee options, and ball physics would be very welcome. Right now, TGC also has a massive number of really poor courses and only a much smaller number of strong courses. JNPG, on the other hand, has a solid group of really great courses (e.g., Pine Valley, Cypress Point, Pebble Beach, Pacific Dunes, St. Andrews-Old, and many others).
  • PorscheFanPorscheFan Members Posts: 1,155 ClubWRX
    edited Nov 29, 2018 #39
    I always knew that GSF was backed by ProTee and was biased in its general structure (e.g. from the main forum root the high-level categories are 'Golf Simulator Forum' and 'ProTee Golf Simulator', followed by 'Golf Simulator Brands and Types')



    I previously had no major issue with it because I assumed it was just a marketing slant without major content policing, but hearing about monitoring of private messages and banning people that post about rival products is beyond the pail.



    I just checked the list of off-limit topics, and right at the very bottom is 'Simulator Software Comparisons' but it says nothing about having a positive view of rival products...



    My favorite part of the forum rules is the kicker... it says something like '[background=transparent]our aim is to create a community that is a fun place to talk about golf simulators, without worrying about undue negativity[/background]' - That'd be a fail, then...
  • clevitedclevited Don't think you are, know you are. Members Posts: 1,000 ✭✭
    PorscheFan wrote:


    I always knew that GSF was backed by ProTee and was biased in its general structure (e.g. from the main forum root the high-level categories are 'Golf Simulator Forum' and 'ProTee Golf Simulator', followed by 'Golf Simulator Brands and Types')



    I previously had no major issue with it because I assumed it was just a marketing slant without major content policing, but hearing about monitoring of private messages and banning people that post about rival products is beyond the pail.



    I just checked the list of off-limit topics, and right at the very bottom is 'Simulator Software Comparisons' but it says nothing about having a positive view of rival products...



    My favorite part of the forum rules is the kicker... it says something like '[background=transparent]our aim is to create a community that is a fun place to talk about golf simulators, without worrying about undue negativity[/background]' - That'd be a fail, then...




    I always thought Protee was just one of the sponsors, not the main interest and runner of the website. I thought they were just running a sim league through the website and there to answer questions about their products. GSF could be great again if they stop this ****. I know that is a big ask, but if they won't well, we can possibly rebuild GSF as it should have been on here. Not sure if Protee will like the eventual and inevitable removal of traffic once a new UNBIASED simulator forum gets a foot hold.
  • dg_1983dg_1983 Members Posts: 1,283 ✭✭
    I enjoy TGc tour, some good gross players. I think JNPG has more play and tour options but not sure if the gross competition is as strong? There is an endless discussion about the pros and cons of both



    Tell you what though, that Facebook group you mentioned, while not censored , my god there is some real anti TGC zeal there!



    I agree that as TGC2019 comes it all might settle down as TGC comes at least on par with JNPG. I think losing new skytrak users is a real blow to JNPG. Yes there are ways to get it, but I'm not sure if forfiet a new skytrak unit for a used one for the sake of JnPG for an unknown shelf life.



    What we can get at home now is fantastic regardless of the software we choose, golf is the winner for sure.



    I posted this on the Facebook page and someone told me they'd rather give up golf than play TGC 😂😂😂😂



    **** hath no fury like a woman scorned indeed



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    2019 Target +15
    Current 0.2
  • coreyhrcoreyhr Lafferty, Daniel Members Posts: 414 ✭✭
    The site has certainly changed (for the worse) since it was bought by Protee. I was a early member and co-operated the Optishot league years ago. You could see the writing on the wall when they took it over. I never get on there anymore, but sounds like they've finally purged the place of anything other than TGC.
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  • clevitedclevited Don't think you are, know you are. Members Posts: 1,000 ✭✭
    edited Nov 29, 2018 #43
    dg_1983 wrote:


    I enjoy TGc tour, some good gross players. I think JNPG has more play and tour options but not sure if the gross competition is as strong? There is an endless discussion about the pros and cons of both



    Tell you what though, that Facebook group you mentioned, while not censored , my god there is some real anti TGC zeal there!



    I agree that as TGC2019 comes it all might settle down as TGC comes at least on par with JNPG. I think losing new skytrak users is a real blow to JNPG. Yes there are ways to get it, but I'm not sure if forfiet a new skytrak unit for a used one for the sake of JnPG for an unknown shelf life.



    What we can get at home now is fantastic regardless of the software we choose, golf is the winner for sure.



    I posted this on the Facebook page and someone told me they'd rather give up golf than play TGC ��������



    **** hath no fury like a woman scorned indeed




    I think you will find the people that are really upset about TGC are people who bought it and it fell short of expectations. The number one complaint I see is the ability to cheat, so they don't like playing an online tour when so much cheating is possible and happening. TGC2019 as far as I have heard is still up in the air with being on par with JNPG features but they are definitely making improvements. One of the other things that **** people off is the vagueness regarding lifetime license getting them access to TGC2019? I don't know all of the details, I honestly stopped caring about TGC when my friends got banned for just mentioning the opposition, and even more so when I got banned for trying to make a comprehensive thread showing pro's and con's for everything I can simulator wise. If you have time, can you PM me pro's and con's for TGC? Pro's and Con's for TGC 2019 would be good too so I can add it to my comparison thread I linked in an earlier post. I would like to complete the most popular stuff asap in order to help people looking for details that seem to get deleted or are scattered throughout GSF.



    PS. I didn't mentioned a facebook group, but the OGT website that allowed me to put up my comparison thread. Is that what you were referring to?
  • clevitedclevited Don't think you are, know you are. Members Posts: 1,000 ✭✭
    I have asked golfwrx mods if we can have a dedicated simulator section but no luck thus far. For at least the time being, those that are sick of gsf policy and censoring and banning, please contribute here https://www.onlinegolftour.net/forum/viewforum.php?f=545



    It is my attempt to start a safe and fair place to talk about simulator stuff. Thanks.
  • fairways4lifefairways4life Members Posts: 1,553 ✭✭
    clevited wrote:


    I have asked golfwrx mods if we can have a dedicated simulator section but no luck thus far. For at least the time being, those that are sick of gsf policy and censoring and banning, please contribute here https://www.onlinegolftour.net/forum/viewforum.php?f=545



    It is my attempt to start a safe and fair place to talk about simulator stuff. Thanks.




    By no luck do you mean you just haven't heard back or they told you to kick rocks?
  • Ryan5508Ryan5508 Members Posts: 447 ✭✭
    I stopped visiting the site as well after losing interest in TGC and the wait for #2.



    Its easy to see they push protee and I have nothing against the system. I really enjoyed my time with it after the nightmare of a time with skytrak. I just found the system not user friendly out side of being the person who set it up. Also my license would go invalid randomly and I couldn't play. but it was built like a tank and decently accurate for anything outside of wedge play. And where else can you get club data at that price. With that said I sold mine.



    I love my gc2 and am 50/50 on FSX. I hate the multiple program setup of using it with TGC. The problem is the gc2/Fsx part of their forums is almost worthless if you have any problems.
  • clevitedclevited Don't think you are, know you are. Members Posts: 1,000 ✭✭

    clevited wrote:


    I have asked golfwrx mods if we can have a dedicated simulator section but no luck thus far. For at least the time being, those that are sick of gsf policy and censoring and banning, please contribute here https://www.onlinegolftour.net/forum/viewforum.php?f=545



    It is my attempt to start a safe and fair place to talk about simulator stuff. Thanks.




    By no luck do you mean you just haven't heard back or they told you to kick rocks?




    Said it would require a sponsor and see no reason to make one. Can post simulator stuff all we want but I think wrx needs a section dedicated to only sim stuff so its easier to find what you are looking for.
  • clevitedclevited Don't think you are, know you are. Members Posts: 1,000 ✭✭
    edited Dec 6, 2018 #48
    I don't like bumping my own threads but I really feel I need to expose this issue about GSF to everyone I can that doesn't already know. I personally feel quite violated by how I was treated and how many others were treated. The only way that website changes is the following...



    1) Many many many users speak up and tell the admin what they think and what they as consumers will not buy with their money because of this behavior

    2) People move their discussions to this site, and with enough participation in simulator discussion, and enough asking, we may get a dedicated section that is easy for everyone out there to find. (if you want a dedicated simulator section on wrx, voice your opinion here http://www.golfwrx.c...ulator-section/)

    3) People move their discussions to the site I started a formal simulator section in which can be found here https://www.onlinego...ffc0a5274c6f4b0



    I don't care how its done, but we really need to convince Protee, that it is in their best interest to open back up GSF to what it used to be before they took it over and leveraged it as a method for unethical consumer manipulation and mistreatment, or make new what GSF once was. The only way this happens is if consumers speak up and make their voices heard. Keep posting in here and more people that need to see it will, and perhaps it will help get things going on WRX and or the OGT site. Whatever works is good with me.
  • clevitedclevited Don't think you are, know you are. Members Posts: 1,000 ✭✭
    edited Dec 6, 2018 #49
    GolfWRX admins, a little clarity please on why you took down more than a couple posts in this thread. Please PM me.



    Edit: I appreciate the move of the thread, that would be the more appropriate place for it, still would like clarification on the missing posts so I understand.



    Edit2: Got clarification, my bad for posting other websites, I thought it was only competing websites that could not be posted.
    Post edited by Unknown User on
  • alexdubalexdub Face sends it, path bends it UtahMembers Posts: 1,062 ✭✭
    Regarding the discussion in this thread about non-biased discussion and the potential for GolfWRX to serve in that capacity, see below:



    This isn't a knock on GolfWRX — just a reminder that nothing is this world is free. Even if we, as end users, are not paying to use this website, someone else is. Websites as large as WRX take a significant amount of capital to build, maintain, and improve. But WRX's (and other sites) use of site and forum sponsors is standard business practice and should not be perceived as nefarious activity.



    It should be standard business practice for us, as consumers, to not expect objectivity. We research varying perspectives and come to our own conclusions. If we chose to express those conclusions on someone else's website—conclusions that may be in contradiction of the site's rules or sponsorship agreements—then they absolutely have the right to remove posts or ban.





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  • clevitedclevited Don't think you are, know you are. Members Posts: 1,000 ✭✭
    alexdub wrote:


    Regarding the discussion in this thread about non-biased discussion and the potential for GolfWRX to serve in that capacity, see below:



    This isn't a knock on GolfWRX — just a reminder that nothing is this world is free. Even if we, as end users, are not paying to use this website, someone else is. Websites as large as WRX take a significant amount of capital to build, maintain, and improve. But WRX's (and other sites) use of site and forum sponsors is standard business practice and should not be perceived as nefarious activity.



    It should be standard business practice for us, as consumers, to not expect objectivity. We research varying perspectives and come to our own conclusions. If we chose to express those conclusions on someone else's website—conclusions that may be in contradiction of the site's rules or sponsorship agreements—then they absolutely have the right to remove posts or ban.









    Good post and I understand this.



    It is a shame however that there can't be sponsorship with the understanding that consumers have a right to voice their opinions and if they want to have their products highly sought after, they need to make a good product and provide it at a good price and also support the product so that it stands on its own merits. There should be no censoring, ever, when it comes to opinions, especially factually based opinions about a product. WRX is certainly better SO FAR in this area than GSF currently is. GSF is blatantly blocking talk about JNPG and banning people that play it. I know for a fact that the admin there went to the online site that runs the tour for JNPG and banned many if not most usernames that were the same on there as on GSF just because of paranoia. GSF admin thinks there is some conspiracy to take everyone away from TGC and get them to play JNPG. In reality, there is a conspiracy to share the truth, the truth is, currently there is more to offer on one vs the other and any taking of TGC players was due to that and the friends follow friends issue.



    Censorship due to sponsors of sites I feel suffocates competition, and hurts product innovation, value and ultimately the consumer. In the golf world, all of the products are overpriced. Its like buying a diamond ring, the mark up is ridiculous and it usually doesn't need to be.
  • wundejwundej ClubWRX Posts: 3,749 ClubWRX
    clevited wrote:
    alexdub wrote:


    Regarding the discussion in this thread about non-biased discussion and the potential for GolfWRX to serve in that capacity, see below:



    This isn't a knock on GolfWRX — just a reminder that nothing is this world is free. Even if we, as end users, are not paying to use this website, someone else is. Websites as large as WRX take a significant amount of capital to build, maintain, and improve. But WRX's (and other sites) use of site and forum sponsors is standard business practice and should not be perceived as nefarious activity.



    It should be standard business practice for us, as consumers, to not expect objectivity. We research varying perspectives and come to our own conclusions. If we chose to express those conclusions on someone else's website—conclusions that may be in contradiction of the site's rules or sponsorship agreements—then they absolutely have the right to remove posts or ban.









    Good post and I understand this.



    It is a shame however that there can't be sponsorship with the understanding that consumers have a right to voice their opinions and if they want to have their products highly sought after, they need to make a good product and provide it at a good price and also support the product so that it stands on its own merits. There should be no censoring, ever, when it comes to opinions, especially factually based opinions about a product. WRX is certainly better SO FAR in this area than GSF currently is. GSF is blatantly blocking talk about JNPG and banning people that play it. I know for a fact that the admin there went to the online site that runs the tour for JNPG and banned many if not most usernames that were the same on there as on GSF just because of paranoia. GSF admin thinks there is some conspiracy to take everyone away from TGC and get them to play JNPG. In reality, there is a conspiracy to share the truth, the truth is, currently there is more to offer on one vs the other and any taking of TGC players was due to that and the friends follow friends issue.



    Censorship due to sponsors of sites I feel suffocates competition, and hurts product innovation, value and ultimately the consumer. In the golf world, all of the products are overpriced. Its like buying a diamond ring, the mark up is ridiculous and it usually doesn't need to be.




    For reference, I brought this up in 2015

    http://www.golfwrx.com/forums/topic/1135609-launch-monitor-swing-analysis-sub-forum/



    It’s a complete shame, especially when many of us are Clubwrx members and PAY to support the site. There is absolutely no downside to making a sub forum for LM/Sim discussions. There are plenty of mods (I know I and a number of others would be happy to volunteer and enforce the rules). It would be an opportunity for another sponsor (there are many that I’m sure would be happy).



    Honestly, I’d much rather come to one spot for all my golf talk. All that being said, they are still sticking to the same justification 3 years later so it is what it is, it’s their site.
  • sdrthedjsdrthedj Members Posts: 312 ✭✭
    wundej wrote:

    clevited wrote:
    alexdub wrote:


    Regarding the discussion in this thread about non-biased discussion and the potential for GolfWRX to serve in that capacity, see below:



    This isn't a knock on GolfWRX — just a reminder that nothing is this world is free. Even if we, as end users, are not paying to use this website, someone else is. Websites as large as WRX take a significant amount of capital to build, maintain, and improve. But WRX's (and other sites) use of site and forum sponsors is standard business practice and should not be perceived as nefarious activity.



    It should be standard business practice for us, as consumers, to not expect objectivity. We research varying perspectives and come to our own conclusions. If we chose to express those conclusions on someone else's website—conclusions that may be in contradiction of the site's rules or sponsorship agreements—then they absolutely have the right to remove posts or ban.









    Good post and I understand this.



    It is a shame however that there can't be sponsorship with the understanding that consumers have a right to voice their opinions and if they want to have their products highly sought after, they need to make a good product and provide it at a good price and also support the product so that it stands on its own merits. There should be no censoring, ever, when it comes to opinions, especially factually based opinions about a product. WRX is certainly better SO FAR in this area than GSF currently is. GSF is blatantly blocking talk about JNPG and banning people that play it. I know for a fact that the admin there went to the online site that runs the tour for JNPG and banned many if not most usernames that were the same on there as on GSF just because of paranoia. GSF admin thinks there is some conspiracy to take everyone away from TGC and get them to play JNPG. In reality, there is a conspiracy to share the truth, the truth is, currently there is more to offer on one vs the other and any taking of TGC players was due to that and the friends follow friends issue.



    Censorship due to sponsors of sites I feel suffocates competition, and hurts product innovation, value and ultimately the consumer. In the golf world, all of the products are overpriced. Its like buying a diamond ring, the mark up is ridiculous and it usually doesn't need to be.




    For reference, I brought this up in 2015

    http://www.golfwrx.c...ysis-sub-forum/



    It’s a complete shame, especially when many of us are Clubwrx members and PAY to support the site. There is absolutely no downside to making a sub forum for LM/Sim discussions. There are plenty of mods (I know I and a number of others would be happy to volunteer and enforce the rules). It would be an opportunity for another sponsor (there are many that I’m sure would be happy).



    Honestly, I’d much rather come to one spot for all my golf talk. All that being said, they are still sticking to the same justification 3 years later so it is what it is, it’s their site.




    It is unfortunate that you have to search for sim info instead of having it's own little area.
  • clevitedclevited Don't think you are, know you are. Members Posts: 1,000 ✭✭
    edited Dec 10, 2018 #54
    Just to bring this back around a bit, if you have been rubbed wrong by GSF, or know people that have, or have been ripped off by Protee or your posts have been censored, make a stink about it here, and also tell the admin there what you think. The only way to get change is to show the people that rely on our money for their lifestyle that they can't treat customers like ****, lie to them, and ban them for not doing anything wrong. They also shouldn't be using an open forum with no indication its owned by a biased seller of simulator products as a base of operations.
  • wundejwundej ClubWRX Posts: 3,749 ClubWRX
    sdrthedj wrote:
    wundej wrote:

    clevited wrote:
    alexdub wrote:


    Regarding the discussion in this thread about non-biased discussion and the potential for GolfWRX to serve in that capacity, see below:



    This isn't a knock on GolfWRX — just a reminder that nothing is this world is free. Even if we, as end users, are not paying to use this website, someone else is. Websites as large as WRX take a significant amount of capital to build, maintain, and improve. But WRX's (and other sites) use of site and forum sponsors is standard business practice and should not be perceived as nefarious activity.



    It should be standard business practice for us, as consumers, to not expect objectivity. We research varying perspectives and come to our own conclusions. If we chose to express those conclusions on someone else's website—conclusions that may be in contradiction of the site's rules or sponsorship agreements—then they absolutely have the right to remove posts or ban.









    Good post and I understand this.



    It is a shame however that there can't be sponsorship with the understanding that consumers have a right to voice their opinions and if they want to have their products highly sought after, they need to make a good product and provide it at a good price and also support the product so that it stands on its own merits. There should be no censoring, ever, when it comes to opinions, especially factually based opinions about a product. WRX is certainly better SO FAR in this area than GSF currently is. GSF is blatantly blocking talk about JNPG and banning people that play it. I know for a fact that the admin there went to the online site that runs the tour for JNPG and banned many if not most usernames that were the same on there as on GSF just because of paranoia. GSF admin thinks there is some conspiracy to take everyone away from TGC and get them to play JNPG. In reality, there is a conspiracy to share the truth, the truth is, currently there is more to offer on one vs the other and any taking of TGC players was due to that and the friends follow friends issue.



    Censorship due to sponsors of sites I feel suffocates competition, and hurts product innovation, value and ultimately the consumer. In the golf world, all of the products are overpriced. Its like buying a diamond ring, the mark up is ridiculous and it usually doesn't need to be.




    For reference, I brought this up in 2015

    [url="http://www.golfwrx.com/forums/topic/1135609-launch-monitor-swing-analysis-sub-forum/"]http://www.golfwrx.c...ysis-sub-forum/[/url]



    It’s a complete shame, especially when many of us are Clubwrx members and PAY to support the site. There is absolutely no downside to making a sub forum for LM/Sim discussions. There are plenty of mods (I know I and a number of others would be happy to volunteer and enforce the rules). It would be an opportunity for another sponsor (there are many that I’m sure would be happy).



    Honestly, I’d much rather come to one spot for all my golf talk. All that being said, they are still sticking to the same justification 3 years later so it is what it is, it’s their site.




    It is unfortunate that you have to search for sim info instead of having it's own little area.


    Yup, and search on a mobile device is horrendous. It’s just a headache all around.
  • GwrxModGwrxMod Marshals Posts: 1,417 mod
    edited Dec 13, 2018 #56
    clevited wrote:


    Just to bring this back around a bit, if you have been rubbed wrong by GSF, or know people that have, or have been ripped off by Protee or your posts have been censored, make a stink about it here, and also tell the admin there what you think. The only way to get change is to show the people that rely on our money for their lifestyle that they can't treat customers like ****, lie to them, and ban them for not doing anything wrong.




    Do not do this.



    clevited, I think we have been more than accommodating to your multiple posts in multiple forums on this subject. Its the same thing over and over and no matter what the mods say, you are not happy. But enough is enough, I think we have been more than accommodating in allowing you to get whatever you wanted to off your chest. But please stop using WRX as some sort of call to arms against this other site. We have now had users reporting your threads and posts as being the same stuff over and over again.



    I cannot be more clear. We do not care to have repeated posts about the business of other sites especially when you are now causing WRX members to take issue with it. We have no idea - and simply don't care - if your allegations against that site are true or not.


    clevited wrote:


    They also shouldn't be using an open forum with no indication its owned by a biased seller of simulator products as a base of operations.




    And you should not be using our forum for the purposes that you are. As was pointed out to you in your other thread on this same topic, GSF seems to have active users and posters every single day. There were almost 1,000 users online there last time I checked. Clearly there are still a few people that use their forum and are happy with it.



    You have made your point. Please stop now.
  • clevitedclevited Don't think you are, know you are. Members Posts: 1,000 ✭✭
    GwrxMod wrote:

    clevited wrote:


    Just to bring this back around a bit, if you have been rubbed wrong by GSF, or know people that have, or have been ripped off by Protee or your posts have been censored, make a stink about it here, and also tell the admin there what you think. The only way to get change is to show the people that rely on our money for their lifestyle that they can't treat customers like ****, lie to them, and ban them for not doing anything wrong.




    Do not do this.



    clevited, I think we have been more than accommodating to your multiple posts in multiple forums on this subject. Its the same thing over and over and no matter what the mods say, you are not happy. But enough is enough, I think we have been more than accommodating in allowing you to get whatever you wanted to off your chest. But please stop using WRX as some sort of call to arms against this other site. We have now had users reporting your threads and posts as being the same stuff over and over again.



    I cannot be more clear. We do not care to have repeated posts about the business of other sites especially when you are now causing WRX members to take issue with it. We have no idea - and simply don't care - if your allegations against that site are true or not.


    clevited wrote:


    They also shouldn't be using an open forum with no indication its owned by a biased seller of simulator products as a base of operations.




    And you should not be using our forum for the purposes that you are. As was pointed out to you in your other thread on this same topic, GSF seems to have active users and posters every single day. There were almost 1,000 users online there last time I checked. Clearly there are still a few people that use their forum and are happy with it.



    You have made your point. Please stop now.




    When have I been told I cannot post about a corrupt website that is censoring information that is important to many sim golfers? I am very serious. I am not trying to violate any rules here. I accidentally posted links, yet I had to ask what I did wrong as I really wanted to know. I learned what I did wrong regarding links and I ceased that action. Now who is complaining about me? Is it warranted or is it not? I am not in a habit of slandering, I am posting truth. How on earth btw, can a person learn they are violating a rule or offending people if I am not told via a pm from a mod? Is it common practice to post such a hostile fyi out in the open to teach a person a very visible lesson?



    Your co mod was very respectful to me in my sim thread request and undid most of what your attitude and your cofounder's attitude did. I lost respect for mods here but regained it with his post. You sir have succeeded in bringing that respect back to zero. You can do what you like with me, I am trying to play by your rules but I guess I am not.



    If you plan to allow me to stay on this site, could you please point me to your rule or rules that details what I did wrong here and please inform me of how I am offending people so I can be more mindful? I am absolutely serious, please help me understand, I don't intend to cause trouble here but if I don't know how I am, how the heck can I correct it?
  • GwrxModGwrxMod Marshals Posts: 1,417 mod
    Your "corrupt website that is censoring information" **** is starting to make me believe you just have some sort of personal - or business - axe to grind.



    I gotta be honest, I am starting to not even care if what you say is true now.



    And the thread link you posted "by accident"? An accident is spilling something in your shop. When WRX wouldn't start a simulator forum for you, you started a new thread - on a different forum - and posted that link multiple times trying to drive people to that other site. Do you...really need to be explained why we would not want that to happen?



    Does that really need to be explained to posters that we wouldn't want you starting threads on other forums and driving traffic to your other forum?



    From the beginning, we have welcomed you to post in the club tech forum. The problem is, from the beginning you have made it quite clear that is not good enough for you. You seem to want to take it one step further.



    Again, you and whoever else wants to are welcome to post about simulators there.
  • clevitedclevited Don't think you are, know you are. Members Posts: 1,000 ✭✭
    edited Dec 13, 2018 #59
    GwrxMod wrote:


    Your "corrupt website that is censoring information" **** is starting to make me believe you just have some sort of personal - or business - axe to grind.



    I gotta be honest, I am starting to not even care if what you say is true now.



    And the thread link you posted "by accident"? An accident is spilling something in your shop. When WRX wouldn't start a simulator forum for you, you started a new thread - on a different forum - and posted that link multiple times trying to drive people to that other site. Do you...really need to be explained why we would not want that to happen?



    Does that really need to be explained to posters that we wouldn't want you starting threads on other forums and driving traffic to your other forum?



    From the beginning, we have welcomed you to post in the club tech forum. The problem is, from the beginning you have made it quite clear that is not good enough for you. You seem to want to take it one step further.



    Again, you and whoever else wants to are welcome to post about simulators there.




    I dropped the issue when your friendly mod posted in my request thread. I posted links thinking I could because I believed your rule to be no links to competing website, I was wrong and ceased posting the links. I posted links 2 or 3 times before posts were taken down and I inquired to the why. My motivation is, trust me, morally sound. I have no stake in anything or business that would make me biased or make me post such a thing. I am a pissed off consumer that is getting flack from a mod on this site for posting as much. I am making an effort to inform people about something they need to be informed about. Is that wrong? Why may I ask do you personally take such issue with this? I have been trying to let this go now but you made it worse. You could have PMd me to inform me about my policy violations but instead you decided you "know me" and chose to make a scene in here.
  • GxgolferGxgolfer Site Founder & Co-Owner SF Bay Area, CARules Official, Administrator Posts: 26,576 admin
    This thread has run its course. It needs to be dropped and moved on.
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