Trail hand in putting

dareckidarecki Members Posts: 13
Hello, I have a question, what is the best way to stabilize the trail hand putter takeaway? Is it a matter of grip style or rather of a grip size? Or perhaps something related to technique? I can see my putter head is vey unstable when taking away. Thanks.
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  • MaximilianMaximilian Members Posts: 1,373 ✭✭
    Hi!



    Are you asking what to do about your right hand (if you are playing right handed)? Is it too active you think?



    If your putter is unstable in the takeaway, I'm guessing it might either be that you are not in a neutral setup, causing your hands/arms to not follow your natural arc/path without manipulating it. Or it could be as I asked above, that you are simply too active with your right hand.



    Where does the motion stem from in your stroke? Shoulders, arms, elbows, wrists, torso, combination of some of them? You will find great putters who drive the stroke with all of those parts, but it might be worth experimenting with trying to start the stroke with some other group of muscles than you are doing now, to see if that helps stabilise the putter.



    Many people who feel their right hand is too dominant find success by going left hand low, claw grip, or by placing the hands right next to each other or on top of each other. A larger grip may help with that. Basically, just place your hands in some manner that makes your left hand/arm more dominant than the right, so the right side just follows along for the ride. For me personally, I have much more feel and control in my right arm than I do my left, so that is something that never worked for me. I do need to make sure my right elbow doesn't go pointing outwards though, because that causes me to move the putter head outside too much.



    I understand I'm most likely not pinpointing your problem here, but hopefully it will give you something to think about and try! Good luck!
  • CISM WayneCISM Wayne Members Posts: 127 ✭✭
    take the putter back with the shoulders not the hands. Think "one piece". And whatever you do, stop watching the putter head and focus on the ball!



    Good luck!
  • sleezytsleezyt Members Posts: 367 ✭✭
    For me finding a putter that fit my stroke helped alot. I have a slight to strong arc so when i used face balanced putters id bring it back outside and reroute to inside. Always seemed wobbly going back. Also i see guys try and take the putter back really slow and it looks forced not natural so go with a natural speed takeaway.
  • Manz60Manz60 Members Posts: 1,783 ✭✭
    stand about 6-8 inches from the ball parallel to your target line, bending forward about 45°, your left eye over the ball, with your hands under your shoulders, and you'll be in a good position to rock your

    shoulders around your spine or head, creating a pendulum like stroke.



    Your shaft will move straight back and through but the putter head will project a slight arc (10°)on the

    ground - your putter is now "on plane" and very stable throughout the stroke.





    Hope this helped

    M60



  • dareckidarecki Members Posts: 13
    Thanks to all who responded. Yes I think my right hand is too active because I am a heavily right-handed guy.
  • taylormade4lifetaylormade4life Members Posts: 1,265 ✭✭
    For me the claw was the solution. I found my right hand trying to “guide” the putter head back which would usually lead to it going back shut and outside. With the claw, I also try to feel my right elbow tucked into my right pants pocket. Obviously this is not “do able” but for me, it positions my right arm under my shoulders and doesn’t allow me to take it outside.



    I suggest the claw but you should try to find something that works for you. Putting is very individual.
  • SwingManSwingMan SwingMan Members Posts: 6,800
    edited Dec 3, 2018 #8
    darecki wrote:


    Thanks to all who responded. Yes I think my right hand is too active because I am a heavily right-handed guy.




    Grip it more firmly in your left hand - the right hand is along for the ride. The hands are together as Ben Crenshaw would say but you will have more relaxed pressure in the left hand.



    I have a similar issue - it's mental going back even in a rock the shoulders one piece takeaway. I've quickened the speed of the stroke to .9-1 second and go for a 2:1 tempo.



    I've even taken the right hand off the grip so it surrounds the left hand ala the Pat O'Brien (SeeMore) Hand Putting Grip. But not staying over the ball, letting the air out of you to relax and then immediately taking the stroke in a good rhythm and speed seems to work. I'm great on the practice green and fine on about 12/18 greens, but it's a mental issue for me.
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  • dareckidarecki Members Posts: 13
    OK, I will try all methods.



    Another thing I've noticed which I think is bad is that my wobbling backswing is longer than my foreswing after hitting the ball. Perhaps this is also related to my problems.
  • GolfingfanaticGolfingfanatic Members Posts: 3,065 ✭✭
    I know the issue of an overactive right hand and tried pretty much everything there is (****, I even went side-saddle for a 27-hole stretch early this year). I recently started putting with an arm-lock putter (kuchar method) and there is nothing out there for me that takes the hands out as much as armlock.
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  • MaximilianMaximilian Members Posts: 1,373 ✭✭
    Just because this is a topic I think is interesting to discuss, I'm going to play devil's advocate here:



    You often hear suggestions to take the right hand out of the stroke. Lot's of great teachers suggest moving the whole triangle as a whole. But... There are also many great teachers who have a different approach. Many will have a new student start out putting balls with only one arm, than switch to the other arm. When they have determined which arm you had an easier time with, this will be the dominant arm in your stroke. And there are many great examples of both kinds of players. Stricker is very left arm dominant in his putting stroke, Tiger is very right arm dominant in his putting stroke.



    I'm just a random guy on the Internet so take it for what it's worth, but when you say that "I think my right hand is too active because I am a heavily right-handed guy", this makes me skeptical about you being able to find any natural feel for distance by taking your right side out of the stroke, without having to practice a huge amount of time.



    Same with the follow through, lot's of great putters have very short follow throughs, Brandt Snedeker goes to the extent of saying "Follow through is the most overrated thing in putting". So just because some teachers may advocate a longer follow through, does not necessarily mean it's the only way to do it.



    I get you are asking questions here because you are having issues with your putting, so I'm not suggesting that you should ignore all advice and continue with what you are doing. I would just recommend that you at least question and think about why you believe you are too right arm dominant and have a too short follow through. What issus are they causing you? This may, but also may not be the problem you are having with a wobbly back stroke. As I said in my first post, to me it sounds more like a setup issue than anything else, but of course I have never seen you putt, so I'm just guessing.



    ​If you would really like to feel what a more shoulder driven stroke feels like, I can highly recommend the Garsen G Max grip. I'm not affiliated with them, I'm just a fan, because it automatically makes your stroke more shoulder driven without you having to do much. I actually don't use that grip any more because after a while I realised that I do need to have more of an arm swing for me to get a better feel for distance. But that grip taught me a lot and puts you in a very natural setup.



    Cheers,

    M
  • JunkerJorgeJunkerJorge Members Posts: 272 ✭✭
    How about methods to take the lead hand out of the stroke?
  • MaximilianMaximilian Members Posts: 1,373 ✭✭


    How about methods to take the lead hand out of the stroke?


    For me it's more of a feel thing, I just feel like I'm bowling the ball with my right hand. I'm very much a right handed person, so I don't have to think about letting it dominate the stroke, it just happens. But here is an interesting video that definitely takes one of your arms out of the stroke. It's a little extreme for me personally, but I understand the logic and I'm sure it's effective for many people. Can be used for either left or right arm.



    https://youtu.be/ITRaVI6lDPE
  • dareckidarecki Members Posts: 13
    Hi all, I checked many possibilities and I obtained the best results by placing the ball further from my body. No wobbling takeaway any more. Elbows are nicely at sides of my torso. However, not having my eyes almost over ther ball brought another problem which is pulling the ball left on a constant basis. Any thoughts? Thanks.
  • MaximilianMaximilian Members Posts: 1,373 ✭✭
    In that case, it sounds like maybe you are not bringing the head enough on the inside of the line on the way back. If you are standing further from the ball and take the putter back too straight, it is very easy to close the head too soon on the way forward. More free flowing, less rigid. image/smile.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':)' /> Try that and let me know.
  • Calamity ToddCalamity Todd Members Posts: 326 ✭✭
    darecki wrote:


    Hi all, I checked many possibilities and I obtained the best results by placing the ball further from my body. No wobbling takeaway any more. Elbows are nicely at sides of my torso. However, not having my eyes almost over ther ball brought another problem which is pulling the ball left on a constant basis. Any thoughts? Thanks.




    If the putter is more comfortable farther away from your body.....you may want to flatten the lie angle to eliminate the pulls.
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  • cargo8cargo8 Members Posts: 76 ✭✭

    darecki wrote:


    Hi all, I checked many possibilities and I obtained the best results by placing the ball further from my body. No wobbling takeaway any more. Elbows are nicely at sides of my torso. However, not having my eyes almost over ther ball brought another problem which is pulling the ball left on a constant basis. Any thoughts? Thanks.




    If the putter is more comfortable farther away from your body.....you may want to flatten the lie angle to eliminate the pulls.




    This ^^

    Toe-up with loft will cause putts to go left. Get your lie angle flattened so that the head sits flat where you're comfortable
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  • A.PrinceyA.Princey Major Hacker Members Posts: 2,153 ✭✭
    Try "pinning" your elbows in, against your mid-section, with your hands low. I found, that with arms too loose and disconnected from the body, it's really easy to lose track of your hands in the stroke. With the elbows in slightly and a little pressure against the chest/abdomen, the body is forced to rock at the shoulder to make a stroke, and the results are much more consistent.
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  • dareckidarecki Members Posts: 13
    Maximilian wrote:


    In that case, it sounds like maybe you are not bringing the head enough on the inside of the line on the way back. If you are standing further from the ball and take the putter back too straight, it is very easy to close the head too soon on the way forward. More free flowing, less rigid. image/smile.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':)' /> Try that and let me know.




    Yes, it can be the issue. I take the head back straight slightly to the outside. Also observed my shoulders are open to the target line a bit as I am a right eye dominant person. But my takeaway is not wobbling anymore which feels great.
  • dareckidarecki Members Posts: 13
    darecki wrote:
    Hi all, I checked many possibilities and I obtained the best results by placing the ball further from my body. No wobbling takeaway any more. Elbows are nicely at sides of my torso. However, not having my eyes almost over ther ball brought another problem which is pulling the ball left on a constant basis. Any thoughts? Thanks.
    If the putter is more comfortable farther away from your body.....you may want to flatten the lie angle to eliminate the pulls.




    I did it without any improvement.




    A.Princey wrote:
    Try "pinning" your elbows in, against your mid-section, with your hands low. I found, that with arms too loose and disconnected from the body, it's really easy to lose track of your hands in the stroke. With the elbows in slightly and a little pressure against the chest/abdomen, the body is forced to rock at the shoulder to make a stroke, and the results are much more consistent.




    My elbows are very stable anchored on my body now when I am standing farther away from the ball.
  • A.PrinceyA.Princey Major Hacker Members Posts: 2,153 ✭✭
    edited Dec 18, 2018 #21
    Upload or link a video(YouTube), it would help a lot to see what's happening in your stroke. I think the wobbliness can be cured without having to stand away so far. If you held your hands lower(possibly shorter putter), and played the ball closer, you could find a similar shaft angle as you have now standing far back. This could create the feel you're experiencing now, but with your eyes more above the ball/line.



    Lastly, a grip overhaul might be in order. I went from a traditional grip, to a Vardonish with my index finger down, to slowly moving my low hand up(more fingers overlapping on top of upper hand). Now, my lead hand(left) grips fully as normal, but my trail hand(right) is half holding the bottom part of my lead hand(overlapping, with only my middle finger, index and thumb of trail(RH) touching the grip. I'm convinced that melding the two hands together, as much as possible without feeling awkward, is the key to consistency.
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  • kcd38kcd38 Members Posts: 314 ✭✭
    I have tooled with both and determined that I need to use my right hand to put a good stroke on the ball.



    One thing that works for me is I start my stroke with a slight forward press, then think of holding that right wrist position through the stroke. This puts my hands slightly in front of the ball at impact and forces my body to drive stroke through the hitting area. I have been making must better contact and have much more speed control
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  • KonkliferKonklifer Thinkin' of a master plan... location, location.Members Posts: 7,813 ✭✭
    Lots of good stuff here but it belongs in the instruction forum.
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  • dareckidarecki Members Posts: 13
    darecki wrote:

    Maximilian wrote:


    In that case, it sounds like maybe you are not bringing the head enough on the inside of the line on the way back. If you are standing further from the ball and take the putter back too straight, it is very easy to close the head too soon on the way forward. More free flowing, less rigid. image/smile.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':)' /> Try that and let me know.




    Yes, it can be the issue. I take the head back straight slightly to the outside. Also observed my shoulders are open to the target line a bit as I am a right eye dominant person. But my takeaway is not wobbling anymore which feels great.




    Anyone has an advice for right eye dominant fellows how to address the ball correctly without a necessity to close the dominant eye ? Also detrmining a line while standing in front of the ball does not work for me; when I address the ball I simply have to look at the ball again and open shoulders unintentionally. Any thoughts here ?
  • MaximilianMaximilian Members Posts: 1,373 ✭✭
    Here is something you can try:



    Line up a straight putt, maybe 10-15 feet or so. Then place a ball marker one foot from your ball, that you know is right on line. So you know that you have to roll the ball over the marker to make the putt.



    Now get setup over the ball. From that position, does it still look like you need to roll the ball over the marker for it to go in? If not, you need to find a setup position that makes you see the line correctly. It's trial and error just moving around. Eye's over the ball or more inside the ball, moving the ball further forward or back in your stance, leaning your head, tilting your head, standing taller, standing more bent over etc. etc.



    Look at all the best putters in the world, very few of them have the exact same setup. Everyone see's the line from different places. Once you see the line, you can get to work on your stroke. But I think you were already on to something a few posts back when you said you have a tendency to bring the putter back on the outside of the line. That is going to create problems no matter how you stand.



    Good luck!
  • dareckidarecki Members Posts: 13
    edited Dec 20, 2018 #26
    Thank you, sound advice.





    Ps. I have just tried it on the carpet and I don't **** believe it ! The marker is set straight at the target looking from behind the ball but while addressing it seems I'd pull it left of the target big time if I roll over the marker ! Unbelievable ! I need to close my stance a lot to feel the marker is on the way to the target. I'll experiment with it more and revert to it. I am both terrified and thrilled, **** it.
  • A.PrinceyA.Princey Major Hacker Members Posts: 2,153 ✭✭
    Aim with a line drawn on the ball, no need to "see" the line at address if you can use the ball as your direction. If you're eyes are playing tricks on you, this solves it.
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  • cargo8cargo8 Members Posts: 76 ✭✭
    Also if you adjust your height / stance, etc you might need to change the lie on your putter to match otherwise you'll have a pull/push depending on toe up/down.
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  • jslane57jslane57 Members Posts: 3,929 ✭✭
    I'm going to add one thing to this conversation: Practice one handed putting. Putt all over the practice green with just the left hand. Putt all over the practice green with just the right hand. Then two hands. One handed putting will also teach you all about what posture will work best as well as how far back your stroke should be...
  • dareckidarecki Members Posts: 13
    darecki wrote:


    Thank you, sound advice.





    Ps. I have just tried it on the carpet and I don't **** believe it ! The marker is set straight at the target looking from behind the ball but while addressing it seems I'd pull it left of the target big time if I roll over the marker ! Unbelievable ! I need to close my stance a lot to feel the marker is on the way to the target. I'll experiment with it more and revert to it. I am both terrified and thrilled, **** it.




    Update : when I look at the marker with either left eye (non-dominant) or both eyes iot's hard to believe the marker had been set properly; it looks I will horribly pull the ball left if I roll the ball over the markwer; however, when I look with my rear eye only (dominant) suddenly the marker is on the way to the hole and all putts go perfectly straight to the hole.

    Now I wonder what should I do: putting with my left eye closed is not very comfortable because my nose disturbs the view; otoh while putting with both eyes open I need to forget about the marker for the reasons I described in the first part of my post. Perhaps the best way is to set up the direction with the marker and my right eye only and just turn my head more. Thoughts?
  • just plain billjust plain bill Unregistered Posts: 1,488 ✭✭
    I put 3/4 roll of lead tape on the bottom of the shaft. No wobble. And it smooths out the stroke. And enhances feel for me. I'm very rh dominant. When I putt I pretend I'm not putting, but chipping, and push the clubhead out along the line. Seems to take the stress out. Been doing this tape-thing since the beginning; always preferred a heavy putter. And the bowling comment above might apply to me as well.

    Everyone that tries my heavy putter really likes it.

    Now that I think about it, chipping with the pw has removed a lot of stress around the green. I used to just grab the putter and sw, but always felt stress with the sw. A buddy in Phoenix, mike burlaka, always used his pw, and was deadly with it. I recently started using the pw, using my putting stroke for the most part and have never been better around the greens.

    This game is nuts.
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