Applying Speed - Pros vs Hackers

I have heard that ams with a 90 swing speed (7i) are typically at a higher clubhead speed between P5 and P6 than a pro, but that the pro gets to around 100 between P6 and impact. I am a big fan of the Athletic Motion Golf youtube series on pros vs ams using their software to trace dynamics in the swing. I was wondering if anyone had a video or something else demonstrating where exactly a pro starts to generate the most speed in the swing and/or what speed the clubhead is traveling at various points in the swing.

lookup kinematic sequence golf graphs and youll find all you want.

Here you go. http://www.mytpi.com/articles/biomechanics/the_linear_kinematic_sequence

Basically from delivery position - peak mid- hands (called so cause that is the location where the measurement is taken) in chart - so between p5-p6 when the lead wrist starts to unhinge and lead forearms starts to supinate - hands slow and club really accelerates .

> @glk said:

> Here you go. http://www.mytpi.com/articles/biomechanics/the_linear_kinematic_sequence

> Basically from delivery position - peak mid- hands (called so cause that is the location where the measurement is taken) in chart - s**o between p5-p6 when the lead wrist starts to unhinge and lead forearms starts to supinate - hands slow and club really accelerates .**

Really interesting

This is wrx home of 100a shooters that all swing 120mph. If you are conscious in trying g to accelerate the club head you will struggle. Its seems clubhead speed is more of a feel, and exploding all your power at the start of the downswing doesn't do much to help chs. It's more of a natural acceleration that one gets the feel for.

Smaller guys like Ricki Fowler and Justin Thomas hit the ball a long way because they're quick.

My main impetus for this is actually trying to validate the concept that a golfer with high chs might feel the club moving fastest post impact ie “the whoosh comes after the ball” and was just curious to see if that actually happens. Thanks for all the feedback everyone.

> @PJ1120 said:

> > @glk said:

> > Here you go. http://www.mytpi.com/articles/biomechanics/the_linear_kinematic_sequence

> > Basically from delivery position - peak mid- hands (called so cause that is the location where the measurement is taken) in chart - s**o between p5-p6 when the lead wrist starts to unhinge and lead forearms starts to supinate - hands slow and club really accelerates .**

>

> Really interesting

>

Standard kinematic sequence..

I think what is measured and actually happening is not a direct result of the same intent. It's an indirect result of some other swing concept the player has.

Meaning they are not trying to accelerate late or apply anything at P5.5.

There's probably a much larger fundamental difference between pros and ams that result in that measurement.

> @MonteScheinblum said:

>

> Standard kinematic sequence..

>

>

In my opinion, coming from an explosive motion sport to golf, it's exactly this. Noone would purposely try and accelerate later, that would be pointless, you may as well shorten the swing and not bother with all the other motion if its' not necessary. For the people that can generate more speed, they are still using motion from upstream and haven't yet needed to use lower parts of the chain, rather than holding back.

> @MonteScheinblum said:

> > @PJ1120 said:

> > > @glk said:

> > > Here you go. http://www.mytpi.com/articles/biomechanics/the_linear_kinematic_sequence

> > > Basically from delivery position - peak mid- hands (called so cause that is the location where the measurement is taken) in chart - s**o between p5-p6 when the lead wrist starts to unhinge and lead forearms starts to supinate - hands slow and club really accelerates .**

> >

> > Really interesting

> >

>

> Standard kinematic sequence..

Monte.....at what point does the lead wrist start moving from flexion to extension and is it a conscious move?

>

>

Its how to Not moving the hands b4 P6. Lower body ignites the hips then the upper body and the arms and hands come the last.

So looking at the graph above, the peak speed is ~impact. Does the resistance of the ball cause this decrease in speed (i.e. peak speed generation would still feel like it is after impact) or is it that in a solid kinematic chain peak speed is at the ball.

Intuitively, I get that the ball wouldn't care how fast your club is moving or how much you are exerting yourself after impact bc its gone, but I'm focusing more on intention of the swinger. Maybe another way to phrase is this where does the whip crack - at impact or in front of the ball toward the target?

> @malarijm said:

> So looking at the graph above, the peak speed is ~impact. Does the resistance of the ball cause this decrease in speed (i.e. peak speed generation would still feel like it is after impact) or is it that in a solid kinematic chain peak speed is at the ball.

Look how steeply the speed of the club head graph is accelerating into impact. No way that would be peak speed if the ball didn’t slow it down - just not physically possible for it to slow down that fast.

My guess is that peak CH speed without a ball comes sometime around when the club is aligned with the right arm and both arms are straight, maybe 2 feet past impact... which makes a good intent.

The mass of the ball definitely slows the CH speed down upon impact. It would have been nice if they had done another test with a ping pong ball.

Wow, OP, you've gotten deep into the weeds.

> @malarijm said:

>

> So looking at the graph above, the peak speed is ~impact. Does the resistance of the ball cause this decrease in speed (i.e. peak speed generation would still feel like it is after impact) or is it that in a solid kinematic chain peak speed is at the ball.

>

> Intuitively, I get that the ball wouldn't care how fast your club is moving or how much you are exerting yourself after impact bc its gone, but I'm focusing more on intention of the swinger. Maybe another way to phrase is this where does the whip crack - at impact or in front of the ball toward the target?

been a while since engineering calc but i would look at the derivatives, especially club head speed. e.g. it looks like the rate of acceleration for club head decreases prior to impact which may indicate "cracking the whip" occurs before ball contact. though perhaps mid-hands could be a better indicator for this?

Thanks for your feedback everyone. I don't think about any of this when I'm playing, but am just interested in the intention as I believe I have some speed in the tank to tap into. I am a recovering 10 degrees in to out flipper and have neutralized my clubpath almost completely with some trackman instruction, but am still working through the old flipping at the ball habits from the past ~3 years of playing seriously. As Monte has pointed out in at least one of his videos, I had no choice but to early extend with my old delivery numbers or I'd miss the ball. I am hoping this correct "intention" or where to "crack the whip" would help me better understand and/or feel the most efficient speed for my current swing.

> @farmer said:

> Wow, OP, you've gotten deep into the weeds.

I wasted 3 credit hours of tuition on an ice skating class, but it was like night and day when the instructor explained how the inside and outside edges on an ice skate are meant to be used as opposed to just lacing up and winging it. Not looking for a swing thought or anything super technical, just curious what the ideal sequence or intention may be.