Davis Love III new driver

[MasonT]

It looks like DL3 has gone away from his trusty SLDR and turned over to the Aeroburner TP. He must've changed right after the WITB on golfwrx Instagram.

[15th Club]

I continue to be interested in Tour use of the AeroBurner, since the Dustin Johnson driver thread around the time of the U.S. Open.

It isn't adjustable. And it has such a short hosel, it would seem to be unbendable. How do they get the kinds of face angles that tour players like? All the retail AeroBurners that I have seen look borderline unplayable to me; my eye requires a more-open face angle. I saw a nice all-black AB recently that looked a bit more open.

What are they doing with tour AeroBurners? Are the heads that different? Are we back to "tour issued" versus "retail" TaylorMade drivers?

[DTown3011]

[quote name='15th Club' timestamp='1437680193' post='12007518']
I continue to be interested in Tour use of the AeroBurner, since the Dustin Johnson driver thread around the time of the U.S. Open.

It isn't adjustable. And it has such a short hosel, it would seem to be unbendable. How do they get the kinds of face angles that tour players like? All the retail AeroBurners that I have seen look borderline unplayable to me; my eye requires a more-open face angle. I saw a nice all-black AB recently that looked a bit more open.

What are they doing with tour AeroBurners? Are the heads that different? Are we back to "tour issued" versus "retail" TaylorMade drivers?
[/quote]

The tour issue heads have a longer hosel which makes them easier to bend. Totally different head!

[15th Club]

[quote name='DTown3011' timestamp='1437681029' post='12007612']
[quote name='15th Club' timestamp='1437680193' post='12007518']
I continue to be interested in Tour use of the AeroBurner, since the Dustin Johnson driver thread around the time of the U.S. Open.

It isn't adjustable. And it has such a short hosel, it would seem to be unbendable. How do they get the kinds of face angles that tour players like? All the retail AeroBurners that I have seen look borderline unplayable to me; my eye requires a more-open face angle. I saw a nice all-black AB recently that looked a bit more open.

What are they doing with tour AeroBurners? Are the heads that different? Are we back to "tour issued" versus "retail" TaylorMade drivers?
[/quote]

The tour issue heads have a longer hosel which makes them easier to bend. Totally different head!
[/quote]

Thanks Derek. You are The Man. No surprise there. Are you familiar with any good pictures of the tour vs. retail heads? I like to think I am up to date on most of this stuff but every once in a while I am humbled by a topic like this. Surprised it didn't come up in the Dustin Johnson threads.
Are the tour heads separately listed and approved on the USGA Conforming Driver List?
Do the tour heads have that little aerodynamic flange on the trailing side of the hosel? What does that do to bendability?

[blakesmittkamp]

bump. i would love to see some comparison photos of the tour vs tp head. I hit the tp head at the superstore and thought it looked just waaaaay to big. wasn't a big fan. i wonder if the tour guys are playing a 430 version cause the 460 AB TP looked ridiculous.

[redraider1685]

the tour head is just a different lie angle and longer hosel, I believe the weighting is a little more forward as well

it is still 460cc and looks exactly like the retail TP head, however it does knock some extra spin off

[kevin1826]

Anybody notice what shaft DL3 put in the Aeroburner?

[liongolf_ike]

I play a tour Aeroburner and the head shape is very similar to the retail heads. As stated before the hosel is longer to allow for bending as well as the face angle is a bit more open. The head has a different sound to it from the CG being moved a bit and hotmelt applied. Only trust the tour heads that have the + stamp on the hosel. These are the ones that were tested and approved for tour inventory and play. That being said, they can do many many things with these heads in the right bending blocks. For instance... I gamed a tour issue jetspeed that I played at 8.75 degrees and 1 degree flat, since the AB only comes in 9.5 loft they bent my current AB Tour Issue head to 8.75 degrees and 1 degree flat to match my specs to my current gamer and achieved the desired results. This thing is a monster, deep! Best part is, I can aim left and swing as hard as I want left and this baby wont go left.

[15th Club]

Thinking of it now, how many tour drivers no longer have any hosel adjustment? Every Titleist driver has an adjustable hosel. Practically every TM driver on tour -- except for the AeroBurner -- has an adjustable hosel. (One of the very rare exceptions might be Ryan Palmer and his old Burner Superfast.) Every Callaway driver that I know of in play has an adjustable hosel; am I right about that?

I always thought that adjustable hosels meant a leveling of the playing field between tour players and recreational players. That the ability to change face angles (once limited by and large to tour players with the bending jigs and unlimited supplies of heads in case of breakage) had finally arrived for recreational players.

I m seriously beginning to wonder if a head like the AeroBurner, with no weight devoted to any hosel adjustment, has a physical/engineering advantage over other drivers that do have hosel adjustments. Of course the downside of no adjustment is that you need to have a tour van where they have a bending jig shaped to the AeroBurner, and an unlimited supply of heads when and if they break one, and some hot melting equipment to move weight where you'd like it. And those are things that you can have if you are Davis Love III.

Discuss.

[sdbisson91]

[quote name='15th Club' timestamp='1437748866' post='12012084']
I m seriously beginning to wonder if a head like the AeroBurner, with no weight devoted to any hosel adjustment, has a physical/engineering advantage over other drivers that do have hosel adjustments.
Discuss.
[/quote]

This is an interesting thought, but I can't see there being too much of an advantage when it comes to fixed hosel vs adjustable.

If someone is playing an Aeroburner, they're likely looking for a fairly lightweight head, and that's the instance where you would be happy with saving a bit of weight. I'd be interested in seeing exactly how much weight is saved though, because I imagine it's pretty negligble.

That being said, I'm a fan of adding weight to the head of my driver, to the point where my RBZ Stage 2 TP has about six strips of lead tape on it.

[bobcat]

Adjustable Drivers do place weight in undesirable places. The typical TM shaft adapter weigh around 7.5-grams which is equal to 3.5 swingweights, and all that weight winds up in the HEEL of the clubhead. For a stable head at impact, that weight needs to be counterbalanced by adding weight to the toe section, otherwise the driver will be "heel heavy". A "heel heavy" driver will tend to close down its face very rapidly through impact as a much lighter toe tends to "outrace" the heavier heel. You may have experienced this yourself with the Adjustable SLDR Drivers which are well-known for the "low hook miss" even when you feel you put a good swing on it. The SLDR complaints show what can happen with a 'heel heavy" driver, but it became that way because of its adjustable hosel.

[BlkNGld]

[quote name='bobcat' timestamp='1437750232' post='12012258']
Adjustable Drivers do place weight in undesirable places. The typical TM shaft adapter weigh around 7.5-grams which is equal to 3.5 swingweights, and all that weight winds up in the HEEL of the clubhead. For a stable head at impact, that weight needs to be counterbalanced by adding weight to the toe section, otherwise the driver will be "heel heavy". A "heel heavy" driver will tend to close down its face very rapidly through impact as a much lighter toe tends to "outrace" the heavier heel. You may have experienced this yourself with the Adjustable SLDR Drivers which are well-known for the "low hook miss" even when you feel you put a good swing on it. The SLDR complaints show what can happen with a 'heel heavy" driver, but it became that way because of its adjustable hosel.


[/quote]

I can't accept the notion that the hosel was responsible for SLDR complaints.

Adjustable hosels aren't a new thing, least of all for TM who have had them for years and done pretty well with them. The engineering tradeoffs that come with them have been known since day 1. Other OEMs have said it's the reason they held off on adjustable hosels.

Presumably they worked around that issue in other models, which means they either should have done it with SLDR or simply put out a bad design.

[bobcat]

[quote name='BlkNGld' timestamp='1437753147' post='12012594']
[quote name='bobcat' timestamp='1437750232' post='12012258']
Adjustable Drivers do place weight in undesirable places. The typical TM shaft adapter weigh around 7.5-grams which is equal to 3.5 swingweights, and all that weight winds up in the HEEL of the clubhead. For a stable head at impact, that weight needs to be counterbalanced by adding weight to the toe section, otherwise the driver will be "heel heavy". A "heel heavy" driver will tend to close down its face very rapidly through impact as a much lighter toe tends to "outrace" the heavier heel. You may have experienced this yourself with the Adjustable SLDR Drivers which are well-known for the "low hook miss" even when you feel you put a good swing on it. The SLDR complaints show what can happen with a 'heel heavy" driver, but it became that way because of its adjustable hosel.


[/quote]

I can't accept the notion that the hosel was responsible for SLDR complaints.

Adjustable hosels aren't a new thing, least of all for TM who have had them for years and done pretty well with them. The engineering tradeoffs that come with them have been known since day 1. Other OEMs have said it's the reason they held off on adjustable hosels.

Presumably they worked around that issue in other models, which means they either should have done it with SLDR or simply put out a bad design.
[/quote]

You may recall that when TM announced the SLDR "S" model they claimed it was "the SLDR Driver for the rest of us" so the premise was that it would be more forgiving for most players than the original SLDR, and yet the only thing really different, (aside from the color change), was that the "S" had no adjustable hosel and therefore less heel weight, and a lower swingweight. I suppose one could argue the purpose of the "S" was to provide a less expensive SLDR option rather than a more forgiving SLDR, but the latter is the way TM chose to market the "S" at the time

Fact is, the extra weight added by an adjustable hosel need to be effectively handled in some way because it adds significant heel weight. That heel weight has the potential to affect forgivness in a very negative way. IMO,TM did a much better job balancing the head of the R15, hence there is more forgiveness to be found there than with the original SLDR adjustable driver. Certain adjustable driver models are simply better than others in this regard.

There now seems to be a hint of backlash starting to happen, so who knows, perhaps we will see more classic bonded (non-adjustable) drivers announced for 2016,

[ignitewvu]

[quote name='blakesmittkamp' timestamp='1437682830' post='12007798']
bump. i would love to see some comparison photos of the tour vs tp head. I hit the tp head at the superstore and thought it looked just waaaaay to big. wasn't a big fan. i wonder if the tour guys are playing a 430 version cause the 460 AB TP looked ridiculous.
[/quote]

From the Retail standpoint the AB TP's have a flatter lie angle, Mine in particular is at least 2 degrees open maybe more and they have more a fade bias. They have a long hosel which can be bent if needed and a hotmelt port.

The ABTP is a totally different animal than the AB.

[ignitewvu]

[quote name='bobcat' timestamp='1437750232' post='12012258']
Adjustable Drivers do place weight in undesirable places. The typical TM shaft adapter weigh around 7.5-grams which is equal to 3.5 swingweights, and all that weight winds up in the HEEL of the clubhead. For a stable head at impact, that weight needs to be counterbalanced by adding weight to the toe section, otherwise the driver will be "heel heavy". A "heel heavy" driver will tend to close down its face very rapidly through impact as a much lighter toe tends to "outrace" the heavier heel. You may have experienced this yourself with the Adjustable SLDR Drivers which are well-known for the "low hook miss" even when you feel you put a good swing on it. The SLDR complaints show what can happen with a 'heel heavy" driver, but it became that way because of its adjustable hosel.


[/quote]

The Tour adapters are never more than 5.5 grams, those are the only ones I buy anymore.

[15th Club]

[quote name='ignitewvu' timestamp='1437772918' post='12014512']
[quote name='blakesmittkamp' timestamp='1437682830' post='12007798']
bump. i would love to see some comparison photos of the tour vs tp head. I hit the tp head at the superstore and thought it looked just waaaaay to big. wasn't a big fan. i wonder if the tour guys are playing a 430 version cause the 460 AB TP looked ridiculous.
[/quote]

From the Retail standpoint the AB TP's have a flatter lie angle, Mine in particular is at least 2 degrees open maybe more and they have more a fade bias. They have a long hosel which can be bent if needed and a hotmelt port.

The ABTP is a totally different animal than the AB.
[/quote]

Looking at pictures, I now understand this to be completely correct. Even the retail TP's have the hotmelt port.

One question I have is what does a retail AB TP head weigh? Does TaylorMade really think that retail customers will get hotmelting done? And does anybody expect a retail customer to undertake bending the hosel of an AB TP?

If anybody reading this knows of a source to hotmelt and bend an AeroBurner, I'd like to hear about them.

[GolfProNo]

Bending an AB TP is a near impossibility unless you have access to TM directly. The same as for any of their longer hosel products in the past. Unless you can find a specialist that has the tools and the nerve to attempt such bending then you are probably out of luck. TM bends heads using a proper form fit clamping system designed specifically to allow such bending. Even then it is still prone to problems.

As stated in an above post the TP model is indeed fade biased, quite significantly, so much so that players are either getting lucky with a specific head, i.e. it meets their specs, or they are having to start with a lower lofted model, face open, and then bending that face less open, thus adding a little loft. Hence the introduction of the Tour only 9.0 degree models, some of which are <8.5 as a starting point. These can be bent less open by a couple of degrees and bring them up to 9.5ish actual loft. To bring a 10.5 down in loft by bending it would require the face to be bent even more open which the tour players didn't like.

In short, the AB TP is fade biased compared to the non-TP model, has a longer hosel and possibly different weighting. However, bending requires a specialist, if not TM themselves.

Hot melt is a different matter entirely and there are many club builders that can undertake this.

Everything I have been told and heard lends me to believe that the AB TP is a really good head with very similar characteristics to the old superfast Long Hosel from a couple of years ago.

[15th Club]

Bending an AB TP is a near impossibility unless you have access to TM directly. The same as for any of their longer hosel products in the past. Unless you can find a specialist that has the tools and the nerve to attempt such bending then you are probably out of luck. TM bends heads using a proper form fit clamping system designed specifically to allow such bending. Even then it is still prone to problems.

 

As stated in an above post the TP model is indeed fade biased, quite significantly, so much so that players are either getting lucky with a specific head, i.e. it meets their specs, or they are having to start with a lower lofted model, face open, and then bending that face less open, thus adding a little loft. Hence the introduction of the Tour only 9.0 degree models, some of which are <8.5 as a starting point. These can be bent less open by a couple of degrees and bring them up to 9.5ish actual loft. To bring a 10.5 down in loft by bending it would require the face to be bent even more open which the tour players didn't like.

 

In short, the AB TP is fade biased compared to the non-TP model, has a longer hosel and possibly different weighting. However, bending requires a specialist, if not TM themselves.

 

Hot melt is a different matter entirely and there are many club builders that can undertake this.

 

Everything I have been told and heard lends me to believe that the AB TP is a really good head with very similar characteristics to the old superfast Long Hosel from a couple of years ago.

 

And of course the Superfast is what Ryan Palmer fell in love with, and has kept around long after he could've gotten paid to play something else.

 

One thing I'd like to see TaylorMade do, is to sell clubs (heads, to be honest) with all of the tagging we see on the heads coming out of the Tour department. Loft, Lie and Face Angle all measured to a tenth of a degree. Weight of the pre-hotmelt head in grams. How much would it cost to do that? I think I'd pay for it.

 

It really is remarkable; after the great technological advance with interchangeable/adjustable hosels, we may be gradually slipping back to the time when the very best drivers are the old fashioned epoxied models with hosels bent on a tour van. Basically available (with all of the benefits that make such a head worthwhile; bending and hotmelting) only to tour players.

 

[15th Club]

To all of the readers/contacts of the GolfWRX boards; a shout-out (or a challenge?)...

Who, for a retail customer in the continental United States, would measure an AeroBurner head to a tenth of a degree, including face angle, and bend it to a desired face angle?

[bobcat]

[quote name='ignitewvu' timestamp='1437773372' post='12014548']
[quote name='bobcat' timestamp='1437750232' post='12012258']
Adjustable Drivers do place weight in undesirable places. The typical TM shaft adapter weigh around 7.5-grams which is equal to 3.5 swingweights, and all that weight winds up in the HEEL of the clubhead. For a stable head at impact, that weight needs to be counterbalanced by adding weight to the toe section, otherwise the driver will be "heel heavy". A "heel heavy" driver will tend to close down its face very rapidly through impact as a much lighter toe tends to "outrace" the heavier heel. You may have experienced this yourself with the Adjustable SLDR Drivers which are well-known for the "low hook miss" even when you feel you put a good swing on it. The SLDR complaints show what can happen with a 'heel heavy" driver, but it became that way because of its adjustable hosel.


[/quote]

The Tour adapters are never more than 5.5 grams, those are the only ones I buy anymore.
[/quote]

Perhaps you have some lighter ones, but I have personally weighed several SLDR 1* increment Tour issue Head shaft adapters acquired from Niblick-99 on a calibrated gram scale....Both weighed over 7-grams...

[BlkNGld]

[quote name='bobcat' timestamp='1437754139' post='12012690']
[quote name='BlkNGld' timestamp='1437753147' post='12012594']
[quote name='bobcat' timestamp='1437750232' post='12012258']
Adjustable Drivers do place weight in undesirable places. The typical TM shaft adapter weigh around 7.5-grams which is equal to 3.5 swingweights, and all that weight winds up in the HEEL of the clubhead. For a stable head at impact, that weight needs to be counterbalanced by adding weight to the toe section, otherwise the driver will be "heel heavy". A "heel heavy" driver will tend to close down its face very rapidly through impact as a much lighter toe tends to "outrace" the heavier heel. You may have experienced this yourself with the Adjustable SLDR Drivers which are well-known for the "low hook miss" even when you feel you put a good swing on it. The SLDR complaints show what can happen with a 'heel heavy" driver, but it became that way because of its adjustable hosel.


[/quote]

I can't accept the notion that the hosel was responsible for SLDR complaints.

Adjustable hosels aren't a new thing, least of all for TM who have had them for years and done pretty well with them. The engineering tradeoffs that come with them have been known since day 1. Other OEMs have said it's the reason they held off on adjustable hosels.

Presumably they worked around that issue in other models, which means they either should have done it with SLDR or simply put out a bad design.
[/quote]

You may recall that when TM announced the SLDR "S" model they claimed it was "the SLDR Driver for the rest of us" so the premise was that it would be more forgiving for most players than the original SLDR, and yet the only thing really different, (aside from the color change), was that the "S" had no adjustable hosel and therefore less heel weight, and a lower swingweight. I suppose one could argue the purpose of the "S" was to provide a less expensive SLDR option rather than a more forgiving SLDR, but the latter is the way TM chose to market the "S" at the time

Fact is, the extra weight added by an adjustable hosel need to be effectively handled in some way because it adds significant heel weight. That heel weight has the potential to affect forgivness in a very negative way. IMO,TM did a much better job balancing the head of the R15, hence there is more forgiveness to be found there than with the original SLDR adjustable driver. Certain adjustable driver models are simply better than others in this regard.

There now seems to be a hint of backlash starting to happen, so who knows, perhaps we will see more classic bonded (non-adjustable) drivers announced for 2016,


[/quote]

Which supports the notion of a poor design, possibly one rushed to market.

Can't help but wonder if some of the departures at TM (both voluntary and otherwise) may have been around decisions around SLDR's release.

[jonn443]

[quote name='GolfProNo' timestamp='1437774601' post='12014648']
Bending an AB TP is a near impossibility unless you have access to TM directly. The same as for any of their longer hosel products in the past. Unless you can find a specialist that has the tools and the nerve to attempt such bending then you are probably out of luck. TM bends heads using a proper form fit clamping system designed specifically to allow such bending. Even then it is still prone to problems.

As stated in an above post the TP model is indeed fade biased, quite significantly, so much so that players are either getting lucky with a specific head, i.e. it meets their specs, or they are having to start with a lower lofted model, face open, and then bending that face less open, thus adding a little loft. Hence the introduction of the Tour only 9.0 degree models, some of which are <8.5 as a starting point. These can be bent less open by a couple of degrees and bring them up to 9.5ish actual loft. To bring a 10.5 down in loft by bending it would require the face to be bent even more open which the tour players didn't like.

In short, the AB TP is fade biased compared to the non-TP model, has a longer hosel and possibly different weighting. However, bending requires a specialist, if not TM themselves.

Hot melt is a different matter entirely and there are many club builders that can undertake this.

Everything I have been told and heard lends me to believe that the AB TP is a really good head with very similar characteristics to the old superfast Long Hosel from a couple of years ago.
[/quote]

I played the long hosel just until last year and I loved that club, just hit it too low. I have the AB TP this year and I agree, very similar characteristics. I think it's a great driver with the Di6S bUT could be even better with a 661S since I LOVE my AB TP 3hl/757S! With the driver, I do wish it had that amazing soft feel the long hosel had...maybe some HM will take care of that.

[kevin1826]

Anybody see what shaft Davis was playing in the Aeroburner?

[Sef]

I have seen a ton of "Tour Issue" ABTP on ebay in 9*, but I do not trust anything that is tour issue on ebay. For all I know some guy scratched off the .5 in 9.5, hit it with some touch up paint and put the head up with a $500 price tag. Too many fakes on there.

[Pert1862]

Ive tried, but cant get in to the SLDR. Would love to take the Aeroburner for a test drive though.

[woods991]

[quote name='15th Club' timestamp='1437680193' post='12007518']
I continue to be interested in Tour use of the AeroBurner, since the Dustin Johnson driver thread around the time of the U.S. Open.

It isn't adjustable. And it has such a short hosel, it would seem to be unbendable. How do they get the kinds of face angles that tour players like? All the retail AeroBurners that I have seen look borderline unplayable to me; my eye requires a more-open face angle. I saw a nice all-black AB recently that looked a bit more open.

What are they doing with tour AeroBurners? Are the heads that different? Are we back to "tour issued" versus "retail" TaylorMade drivers?
[/quote]
I have a tour issue 4 wood similar to Jason Day and it has a long hosel

[GolfProNo]

Revisiting this only because I have some additional info.

I recently received my AB TP 9.0 that was bent a little closed from its original open position. It is now as close to 9.5 as it could be whilst still having a pleasant to the eye non-closed look to the face angle. Having tested an AB TP 9.5 a few weeks before hand and having now hit this new one I can comment that the launch is different, lower, and the sound is different. The launch is probably lower due to it being an actual 9.5 degrees now, whereas the retail AB TP whilst marked at 9.5 could have been considerably higher in true loft. The sounds difference is undoubtedly the hotmet added to my new head.

The AB TP 9.0 arrived with a weight of 209g, as weighed by myself on my own digital scales. I've no idea what the pre-hotmelt weight may have been, sorry.

The hosel doesn't look noticably longer than the retail AB TP model, although I don't have both side by side in order to make the proper comparison. Else, there are no obvious visual differences. The size is definitely 460cc and it looks HUGE compared to my SLDR 430, partially due to the white vs grey.

All in all a super club. Time will tell whether its up there with the Superfast Long Hosel. Whilst not anti-white at all, indeed I like white, I do remember the honeycomb grey from the Superfast LH fondly. I think the AB is a winner, lets see what TM do next.

[mack_n_rolla]

AB still has that spoiler/diffuser/splitter thingy on the hosel so I don't it's bendable regardless of the hosel height.

[TaylorMadeLuv]

[quote name='mack_n_rolla' timestamp='1438903160' post='12092454']
AB still has that spoiler/diffuser/splitter thingy on the hosel so I don't it's bendable regardless of the hosel height.
[/quote]

If you are referring to the stock AeroBurner, then no they are not bendable.

If you are referring to the AeroBurner TP or tour version, you can get close to 2* of adjustment depending on the head regardless of the Aero Fin.

[GolfProNo]

Mine was indeed bent and shows no signs of any stress or fatigue in the paint by the 'fin', so not only can they be bent there aren't even any cosmetic impacts from such.